[Senate Hearing 107-977] [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office] S. Hrg. 107-977 THE FERES DOCTRINE: AN EXAMINATION OF THIS MILITARY EXCEPTION TO THE FEDERAL TORT CLAIMS ACT ======================================================================= HEARING before the COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY UNITED STATES SENATE ONE HUNDRED SEVENTH CONGRESS SECOND SESSION __________ OCTOBER 8, 2002 __________ Serial No. J-107-109 __________ Printed for the use of the Committee on the Judiciary ______ U.S. GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE WASHINGTON : 2003 88-833 PDF For Sale by the Superintendent of Documents, U.S. Government Printing Office Internet: bookstore.gpr.gov Phone: toll free (866) 512-1800; (202) 512-1800 Fax: (202) 512-2250 Mail: Stop SSOP, Washington, DC 20402-0001 COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY PATRICK J. LEAHY, Vermont, Chairman EDWARD M. KENNEDY, Massachusetts ORRIN G. HATCH, Utah JOSEPH R. BIDEN, Jr., Delaware STROM THURMOND, South Carolina HERBERT KOHL, Wisconsin CHARLES E. GRASSLEY, Iowa DIANNE FEINSTEIN, California ARLEN SPECTER, Pennsylvania RUSSELL D. FEINGOLD, Wisconsin JON KYL, Arizona CHARLES E. SCHUMER, New York MIKE DeWINE, Ohio RICHARD J. DURBIN, Illinois JEFF SESSIONS, Alabama MARIA CANTWELL, Washington SAM BROWNBACK, Kansas JOHN EDWARDS, North Carolina MITCH McCONNELL, Kentucky Bruce A. Cohen, Majority Chief Counsel and Staff Director Sharon Prost, Minority Chief Counsel Makan Delrahim, Minority Staff Director C O N T E N T S ---------- STATEMENTS OF COMMITTEE MEMBERS Page Hatch, Hon. Orrin G., a U.S. Senator from the State of Utah, prepared statement............................................. 69 Leahy, Hon. Patrick J., a U.S. Senator from the State of Vermont. 21 prepared statement........................................... 79 Specter, Hon. Arlen, a U.S. Senator from the State of Pennsylvania................................................... 1 prepared statement........................................... 88 WITNESSES Altenburg, John, Major General (retired), former Assistant Judge Advocate General, United States Army, Washington, D.C.......... 11 Fidell, Eugene R., Counsel, Feldsman, Tucker, Leifer, Fidell & Bank, LLP, Washington, D.C..................................... 14 Harris, Paul, Deputy Associate Attorney General, Department of Justice,Washington, D.C........................................ 2 Joseph, Daniel, Counsel, Akin, Gump, Strauss, Hauer and Feld, LLP, Washington, D.C........................................... 15 O'Neill, Bonnie, Kingston, Pennsylvania.......................... 17 Sklute, Nolan, Major General (retired), former Judge Advocate General, United States Air Force, Bethesda, Maryland........... 9 Sprague, Richard A., Counsel, Sprague and Sprague, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania................................................... 12 Weaver, Christopher E., Rear Admiral and Commandant, Naval District Washington, United States Navy, Washington, D.C....... 4 QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS Responses of General Altenburg to questions submitted by Senator Leahy.......................................................... 29 Response of the Department of Justice to a question submitted by Senator Hatch.................................................. 32 Responses of General Sklute to questions submitted by Senators Leahy and Hatch................................................ 36 Response of Admiral Weaver to a question submitted by Senator Hatch.......................................................... 43 SUBMISSIONS FOR THE RECORD Altenburg, John, Major General (retired), former Assistant Judge Advocate General, United States Army, Washington, D.C., prepared statement............................................. 46 Fidell, Eugene R., Counsel, Feldsman, Tucker, Leifer, Fidell & Bank, LLP, Washington, D.C., prepared statement................ 55 Harris, Paul, Deputy Associate Attorney General, Department of Justice,Washington, D.C., prepared statement................... 59 Joseph, Daniel, Counsel, Akin, Gump, Strauss, Hauer and Feld, LLP, Washington, D.C., prepared statement...................... 71 Sklute, Nolan, Major General (retired), former Judge Advocate General, United States Air Force, Bethesda, Maryland, prepared statement...................................................... 81 Sprague, Richard A., Counsel, Sprague and Sprague, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, prepared statement............................... 93 Veterans Equal Rights Protection Advocacy, Inc.: letter, October 3, 2002...................................... 102 letter and attachment, October 20, 2002...................... 104 Weaver, Christopher E., Rear Admiral and Commandant, Naval District Washington, United States Navy, Washington, D.C., prepared statement............................................. 123 THE FERES DOCTRINE: AN EXAMINATION OF THIS MILITARY EXCEPTION TO THE FEDERAL TORT CLAIMS ACT ---------- TUESDAY, OCTOBER 8, 2002 U.S. Senate, Committee on the Judiciary, Washington, DC. The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 2:05 p.m., in room SD-226, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Arlen Specter presiding. Present: Senators Specter and Leahy. OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. ARLEN SPECTER, A U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF PENNSYLVANIA Senator Specter. The Committee on the Judiciary will now proceed with our hearing on proposed legislation to amend the Federal Tort Claims Act to reverse the so-called Feres doctrine. This hearing has been scheduled on a particularly busy day with, as you doubtless know, arguments proceeding on the floor of the Senate on a resolution to authorize the President to use force in Iraq. I think we will probably have sparsely attended membership from the committee, but staff is here and the hearing will be followed. I have introduced legislation to amend the so-called Feres doctrine because it seems to me that the doctrine has produced anomalous results which reflect neither the will of the Congress nor common sense. There have been many examples where a soldier who is the victim of medical malpractice at an Army hospital cannot sue the Government for compensation, but a civilian who suffers the same treatment on an allegation of malpractice would be entitled to recover against the Government. Similarly, if a soldier driving home from work on an Army post is hit by a negligently driven Army truck, that soldier is barred from suing the Government, but a civilian in identical circumstances would not be so barred. In the interest of brevity, my entire statement will be admitted, without objection, which sets forth the outlines and parameters of the pending legislation. [The prepared statement of Senator Specter appears as a submission for the record.] Senator Specter. I have long been concerned about the Feres doctrine, handed down in 1950. When I practiced law before coming to the Senate, I had serious questions about it, and I was especially troubled by it when I noted the dissenting opinion of Chief Judge Becker, of the Court of Appeals for the Third Circuit, in the case of O'Neill v. United States, decided in 1998, when a claim was denied under the Feres doctrine, with Chief Judge Becker saying that the doctrine ought to be reversed. That was particularly impressive for me. I have known Chief Judge Becker just about as long as the Feres doctrine has been in effect. The case was handed down in 1950 and Edward R. Becker and I started to ride the elevated subway train to the University of Pennsylvania in the same year--not duly relevant to the issue, but just a note as to the concerns which I have had. In the interest of full disclosure, let me say that one of our witnesses today, a very distinguished Philadelphia lawyer, Richard A. Sprague, and I have been close friends and associates since we were assistant district attorneys together in the late 1950's. We worked together when I was district attorney of Philadelphia and he was first assistant. With that relatively brief introduction, let's turn now to our first panel of witnesses: the Honorable Paul Harris, Deputy Associate Attorney General of the Department of Justice. We are going to try to stay pretty close within the time parameters. As I think all of you have been informed, our practice is to have 5 minutes. This light--and you have one on the desk--will start at 4 minutes and stop with the red light going on when it goes to five. Mr. Harris, thank you for joining us and the floor is yours. STATEMENT OF PAUL HARRIS, DEPUTY ASSOCIATE ATTORNEY GENERAL, DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE, WASHINGTON, D.C. Mr. Harris. Thank you, Senator Specter. I am very pleased to be before this committee this afternoon to present the views of the Department of Justice on the Feres doctrine and its importance to the United States. I ask that my full written statement be entered into the record of this hearing. Senator Specter. Without objection, it will be made part of the record. Mr. Harris. Thank you, sir. To begin, a brief explanation of the Feres doctrine and its underpinnings is in order. In Feres and its progeny, the Court has held that members of the armed services cannot sue the Federal Government or other service members or civilian Government employees in tort for injuries that arise out of or are incurred in the course of activity incident to military service. The Feres Court relied upon three principal reasons in coming to its decision: First, the existence and availability of a separate, uniform, comprehensive, no-fault compensation scheme for injured military personnel; second, the effect upon military order, discipline, and effectiveness of its service members if service members were permitted to sue the Government or each other; and, third, the distinctively Federal relationship between the Government and the members of the armed services and the corresponding unfairness of permitting service-connected claims to be determined by non-uniform local tort law. Case law today recognizes that the policy underpinnings of the Feres doctrine are as valid today as they were in 1950. Today, as in 1950, the military service does not leave those permanently injured in the line of duty uncompensated. Congress has attended to such injuries or death through the creation of an efficient and comprehensive compensation system. The second consideration that has led to the broad application of the Feres doctrine by the courts through the years can be understood as an aspect of the traditional reluctance of American courts to intervene in military affairs and the reluctance of the Congress to force such intervention. Simply put, Feres' prohibition of intra-military tort litigation derives from society's most elemental instinct-- self-preservation through a strong military. This consideration comes into play even when the issue is not military discipline in the strictest sense. The Feres doctrine serves to avoid the general judicial intrusion into the area of military performance. The third policy consideration--the Federal nature of the relationship in the absence of an analogous private liability-- led the Supreme Court in Feres to conclude that a service member suit failed to state a claim under the Federal Tort Claims Act. While it sometimes is argued that the Feres doctrine is unfair to service members who are victims of medical malpractice, it is worth noting that the Feres doctrine is an adjunct to the military disability compensation package available to service members which, on the whole, is far more generous, even-handed, and fair than compensation available to private citizens under analogous State worker's compensation schemes. This is because service members, unlike their civilian counterparts who suffer serious adverse consequences from medical care, generally are eligible for compensation whether or not those consequences are or can be proven to be the result of substandard medical care. The fact is that all of these service members are eligible for such compensation, rather than only a small handful who can show a causal link between their condition and substandard medical care. Thus, the arbitrariness and uncertainty associated with tort litigation is effectively eliminated. The Department believes that the policy considerations outlined above are as valid today as they were when they were first articulated. Today, to allow soldiers to sue their Government for tort damages implies that the military has failed its own, and that only by taking the boss to court can justice be attained. Fostering that attitude within a community which demands uncompromising trust and teamwork would have dire consequences and implications for our national defense. It is the view of the Department of Justice that the Feres doctrine continues to be a sound and necessary limit on the FTCA's waiver of sovereign immunity, essential to the accomplishment of the military's mission and to the safety of the Nation. I will be pleased to answer any questions that you may have. [The prepared statement of Mr. Harris appears as a submission for the record.] Senator Specter. Thank you very much, Mr. Harris. We now turn to the Commandant of the United States Naval Academy, Rear Admiral Christopher Weaver. Thank you for joining us, Admiral, and we look forward to your testimony. STATEMENT OF CHRISTOPHER E. WEAVER, REAR ADMIRAL, AND COMMANDANT, NAVAL DISTRICT WASHINGTON, WASHINGTON, D.C. Admiral Weaver. Thank you very much, sir. If I could correct a point there, I am the Commandant of the Naval District of Washington. Senator Specter. Pardon me. Would it be a demotion or a promotion? That is my first question. Admiral Weaver. No, sir. Actually, there are only two commandants left in the Navy, and that is the two of us. Good afternoon, sir, to you and to other members of the committee. My name is Rear Admiral Chris Weaver. I am the Commandant of the Naval District and the Navy's Regional Commander for the National Capital Region. I graduated from the U.S. Naval Academy and have been a Naval officer for 31 years. I appreciate the opportunity to provide testimony to the committee on the views of the Department of Defense on the Feres doctrine. The Department of Defense believes the Feres doctrine is sound public policy and national defense policy that should not be disturbed. To begin with, sir, I am not a lawyer. I am a surface warfare officer. My primary focus is on maintaining good order and discipline, providing support to our military members in the Washington, D.C., area, to those who are forward-deployed and prosecuting the war on terrorism, and sustaining the larger architecture of military readiness, our ability to fight and win our Nation's wars. Before I go further, I want to express my condolences to the family of Kerryn O'Neill. Her murder several years ago was a terrible tragedy. Our hearts continue to go out to the O'Neill family. Although I do not question their sincere desire to seek redress, I am here to testify that allowing service members to bring suits in Federal court against each other and their chain of command will interfere with mission accomplishment and adversely affect our operational readiness. With the challenges confronting our military and Nation today, I respectfully submit that the Feres doctrine should be preserved for the following three reasons. First, the Feres doctrine is important to maintaining good order and discipline in the military. In its current form, the doctrine is essential to maintaining military readiness. Litigation is inherently divisive and disruptive. Absent this doctrine, opposing participants would often both be military members and include a member's commanding officer and military superiors. Military effectiveness and readiness are based on cohesiveness, obedience, discipline, putting the interest of the service ahead of the interest of the individual, and an inherent, unencumbered and unfettered trust and confidence up and down the chain of command. This degree of trust and confidence cannot exist in an adversarial legal environment. Discipline, morale, and unit cohesion are the hallmarks of an effective fighting force. Everything the commander does is designed to embed these values throughout the organization. Litigation is based on allegations, compulsory process, and aggressively asserting the interests of the individual against the service. Because of the disruptive effect of litigation, the concept of sailors suing their shipmates and their Government is alien to our traditional philosophy of military discipline and U.S. jurisprudence. Second, the Feres doctrine is not a bar to remedies because of the existence of the no-fault compensation system currently applicable to any disability or death incurred during military service. All State and Federal worker's compensation laws provide a no-fault compensation system as the exclusive remedy for work-related injuries. Employees may not sue the employer to seek larger recoveries, but employees will be compensated even if there was no negligence or the injured employee was personally negligent. The military compensation system has the same premise, except that the military member is considered to be on the job 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. Their no-fault compensation applies to virtually all injuries at work or at home, in the U.S. or overseas, whether nobody was at fault or everybody was at fault. To be sure, the benefits available under the comprehensive no-fault compensation system are not extravagant, but the system is fair. The third reason for preserving the Feres doctrine is that it is essential to maintaining equity among military members injured or killed during military service. If the Feres doctrine were repealed in whole or in part, disparities would exist, depending on whether the member's death or injury was based on negligence or combat. Other disparities would arise based on many variations in State tort law, the fact that the Federal Tort Claims Act does not apply outside the United States, and the vagaries of liability jurisprudence. Military training would also be affected adversely if a commander or non-commissioned officer must focus on varying and multiple tort issues and State laws when conducting exercises and training evolutions instead of focusing on operational readiness. In conclusion, the Feres doctrine is an important element of public policy and national defense policy. It is a necessary component of maintaining good order and discipline in the military and of enhancing the effectiveness and operational capability of our armed forces. It is also a part of a comprehensive no-fault compensation system which, similar to worker's compensation laws, provides the exclusive remedy for deaths and injuries during military service. Preservation of this exclusive remedy is the only way to maintain equity for all of the military members and families who shoulder the sacrifices endured for our Nation's defense. Thank you very much, and I ask that my full written testimony be made part of the record, sir. Senator Specter. Your full statement will be made a part of the record, without objection. [The prepared statement of Admiral Weaver appears as a submission for the record.] Senator Specter. Admiral Weaver, you talk about not affecting military effectiveness, and I note your reference to the case of O'Neill v. United States. We have with us today Ms. Bonnie O'Neill, whose daughter, Ensign Kerryn O'Neill, was the victim in that case. The essential facts were that Kerryn O'Neill was murdered by her former fiance, George Smith, a Naval ensign. The two of them had met at the Academy and had become engaged, and then Kerryn O'Neill broke off the engagement. She was then stalked by Mr. Smith. One night, while she was sitting in her on-base apartment watching a movie with a friend, Smith came to her building, killed her, her friend, and then himself. As you know, after the murders, Kerryn O'Neill's family learned that Mr. Smith had scored in the 99.99th percentile for aggressive, destructive behavior in a Navy psychological test. Under Naval procedures, those results should have been forwarded to the department of psychiatry at the Naval hospital for a full psychological evaluation. Now, that, of course, is a case which isn't battlefield, isn't combat, isn't military duty. Why should that kind of a case be barred, and do the rationales, the three reasons you say, have any applicability at all to that kind of a case? Admiral Weaver. Well, sir, in my judgment, it is a matter of equity. This was a terrible and tragic case, but to focus on this and use this as an element to create a new standard, which I would submit to you, sir, with respect, would create inequities in other parts of the system--I don't believe that that is the way to address it. Senator Specter. What inequities, Admiral? Admiral Weaver. I am sorry, sir? Senator Specter. What inequities? Admiral Weaver. The ability to afford, for instance, redress on the part of the O'Neill family as opposed to providing a similar circumstance under the Federal Tort Claims Act against an overseas incident of that kind. In other words, how would we provide the same type of treatment, regardless of the circumstances? Senator Specter. If the incident had occurred overseas, you would apply the same law. It does not involve order and discipline. It is not a matter which involves the combat items which you mentioned in your opening statement. Can you give me a factual situation where there would be an unfairness in allowing a lawsuit, if you could, as to Kerryn O'Neill? Why not as to others? Admiral Weaver. Sir, I cannot provide an answer to that at this moment. I will provide that to you, if I could. Senator Specter. Well, I would appreciate it if you would do so. I don't see that the analogy is apt. Mr. Harris, when you articulate the rationales and you talk about order and discipline, and Admiral Weaver makes a reference to combat, I can certainly see the need for order and discipline in combat. The comment was made about one sailor suing another, apparently, in the course of duty, but how would that affect a case like Kerryn O'Neill's horrendous murder? Mr. Harris. Well, to begin with, I would like to also echo the Department's sympathies for the O'Neill family. I would remind the committee that the Constitution provides the basis for the Congress having a special relationship with the military and establishing the rules and regulations that govern the military. Within that rubric, under Article I, section 8, the Congress has deferred to the military a certain amount of authoritarian power that would be intolerable in civilian life. One of those powers in this case is the power and the authority of the military to govern its housing for military personnel. Ensign O'Neill in this incident, as the Senator recognizes, was in military-provided housing when this took place. This is inescapably an area that is within the discretion of the military to provide for order and discipline--the regulations governing military housing are quite specific. Senator Specter. Mr. Harris, what has the housing got to do with it? If it had been off-base, would you say that Kerryn O'Neill's parents would have been able to sue? Mr. Harris. Well, of course, if it was off-base, the military still does provide for housing even off-base by providing a housing allowance to military members, for example. Senator Specter. Is either relevant---- Mr. Harris. Very relevant, because these decisions are---- Senator Specter [continuing]. Whether you are on-base or an allowance is being provided? Mr. Harris. I am sorry, Senator? Senator Specter. Is either relevant to the underlying rationale? You talk about order and discipline, and I can see that, but order and discipline has nothing to do with the Kerryn O'Neill case. And whether she is on-base or off-base, housing allowance or not, or in an apartment which is more expensive than the housing allowance--what has that got to do with the facts of the case with respect to the underlying rationale of order and discipline? Mr. Harris. Well, here, I think it is important to remember that the order and discipline fits within a broader context of a command structure in the military. The military has got to function in a manner in peacetime; that is, it operates on the command structure in peacetime so that it can effectively work in wartime. Senator Specter. Tell me how the command structure is implicated in the O'Neill case. Mr. Harris. If a commander, for example, had the choice of providing additional security at the barracks that a service member is living in and at which a service member is injured in a particular case, versus taking that amount of money and providing it to buy additional aircraft or providing additional security at some other place on the base, this decision that is made within the command structure of the military is one that should function independent of judicial intrusion. The Congress has recognized that for a long time and has deferred generally to the military to make these kinds of decisions. But beyond that, in this case where we have the case of Smith, who had a psychological examination that allegedly revealed that there were perhaps some psychological problems associated with the serviceman, clearly the military should not be in the position where commanders are hauled into court to justify why a command decision was made in this case to assign Smith to a submarine and that the assignment of Smith to a submarine had caused him to be distraught. If we get into this kind of second-guessing of command decisions in the military, we will slowly grind down the efficiency and effectiveness of our military within the command structure. Moreover, even if Feres didn't apply in this case, there are a number of exceptions articulated within the text of the FTCA that would bar a recovery, specifically the assault and battery exception and the discretionary function exception. Senator Specter. Well, I am listening to you, but I don't see anything that has to do with the command structure. One final question, Mr. Harris. You did not mention cost. I infer from that that it is not a relevant factor in the Government's position. Mr. Harris. Cost? Senator Specter. Cost, payment of damages. Admiral Weaver. If I may take that question, sir, if you don't mind. Senator Specter. You may, after Mr. Harris does. Mr. Harris. I think cost is always a concern. Senator Specter. Well, never mind whether it is always a concern. You didn't mention it. Is it a concern in your opposition to a change in the Feres doctrine? Mr. Harris. Well, the question that I answered was related to the command structure and that has nothing to do with the cost issue. Senator Specter. I am aware of that. Mr. Harris. As I would re-articulate, the Government, of course--the Department of Justice would be concerned about cost, which would be one other reason, the protection of the Federal public fisc, for not opening up the military to all sorts of lawsuits that are controlled by plaintiffs. The FTCA does attempt to control cost by limiting attorney's fees, but we think that the overall compensation system that the military has in place, which is a very generous compensation system, is one that for the most part compensates those who are injured or killed in the line of duty in a fair and consistent manner. Senator Specter. You testified to that, but this question is very different. This question is whether the Government contends that it would be very expensive if these lawsuits could be brought if the Government had to pay damages. Mr. Harris. There is no question that it would be expensive, but the payment of damages is not our primary concern. Senator Specter. Admiral Weaver, why don't you go ahead? Do you have an answer to it? Admiral Weaver. Sir, I can't address the specific impact of judgments. My intervention was simply to say that regardless of the financial cost, I think the greater risk is, again, on the good order and discipline and the relations that exist in a military organization one to another. Senator Specter. OK, I think your positions are understood. Thank you very much, gentlemen. Now, I would like to call the second panel: Major General Sklute, retired; Major General Altenburg, also retired; Mr. Sprague; Mr. Fidell; Mr. Joseph; and Ms. O'Neill. Our first witness on panel two is listed as Major General Nolan Sklute, Former Judge Advocate General, United States Air Force. He received his bachelor's degree from Union College in 1962, his law degree from Cornell, and was the Judge Advocate General of the Air Force from 1993 to 1996. I think you can see the timer there which has five on it, and the minutes go down and the red light comes on when time is up. Thank you for joining us, General Sklute, and the floor is yours. STATEMENT OF NOLAN SKLUTE, MAJOR GENERAL (RETIRED), FORMER JUDGE ADVOCATE GENERAL, U.S. AIR FORCE, BETHESDA, MARYLAND Mr. Sklute. Thank you, Senator Specter. At the outset, I would like to ask that my complete written statement be entered into the record. Senator Specter. Your statement will be made a part of the record in full, and everyone's written statement will be made a part of the record in full. Mr. Sklute. First, let me apologize for my voice today. I seemed to have picked up a football cold over the weekend. I do appreciate, sir, very much the opportunity to be here today and to share my thoughts with you and the committee concerning the proposed legislation to amend the Federal Tort Claims Act eliminating the effects of the Feres doctrine. As indicated in my written statement, I submitted there and I submit here that the proposed legislation poses significant risks to the effectiveness of our Nation's armed forces, and I would like to take a few moments to explain why I and many others have reached this conclusion. I don't intend to reiterate all of that have been discussed by the courts in formulating, applying, affirming, and expanding on the incident to service exception which has become known as the Feres doctrine. You already have sufficient information in this regard before you, both written and verbal. What I would like to do is address the adverse impact the proposed legislation will have on those elements that are critical to the unit cohesiveness so very critical to the combat effectiveness of our armed forces. The elements that make up unit cohesiveness--and they have been set out by the Congress in statute in many respects--these elements are integral to the unique and special relationship that exists within military organizations and that exists among and between its members, and these elements are absolutes; they can't be compromised. They include such things as strict obedience to orders; total loyalty to one's organization, one's service, and our Nation; total loyalty up and down the chain of command; complete trust among and between members of the organization; and, finally, discipline. The proposed legislation would attack the requirement for unit cohesion in certain respects. First of all, it will create a certain degree of divisiveness within an organization. It will create discord, it will create perceived and real unfairness, and it will create the not insignificant turmoil associated with civil lawsuits. Such activities are far removed from the various internal accountability measures undertaken by the services within the structure of various departmental regulations and directives. There is no end to the type of decisions, actions, and activities which would become litigation targets with the abandonment of Feres. One just has to visualize the impact on an organization from the following two examples which really just barely scratch the surface. A solider or airman injured during a training exercise seeks monetary damages, alleging his injuries resulted from the negligence of his commander and others within his organization during the planning and execution of the training event. A maintenance crew chief bails out of an F-16 when it flames out during an incentive flight or a training flight and files a claim for his resulting injuries, alleging negligence on the part of the pilot, the maintenance crew that maintained that aircraft with whom he works, and the military air traffic controllers. The services are already subject to lawsuits in a wide variety of circumstances. Superimposing the process of civil litigation in the manner proposed by abandoning Feres will impose an even greater disruptive influence upon military operations. The courts have recognized this and acknowledged their reluctance to intervene in military affairs. The adverse impact upon unit cohesiveness inherent in these two examples and a million others that could be discussed must not be overlooked. Abandonment of Feres as proposed would pave the way for lack of uniformity, inconsistency, and unfairness in fact and in appearance. It promotes disparate treatment based on geographic location of the incident giving rise to the injury; i.e. stateside or overseas, since the FTCA doesn't apply overseas. It promotes disparate treatment based upon the combat exclusion during wartime. A soldier alleging negligent medical treatment at a stateside military hospital will be allowed to proceed under the Federal Tort Claims Act. Yet, his buddy, a solider receiving medical treatment in combat, would not. I share fully the concerns of the families of those whose lives are lost while serving their country. I remember very well accompanying my wing commander and advising various spouses that their husbands were killed in aircraft accidents. The loss is no less severe, regardless of how the injury or death is sustained. The bottom line is the Feres doctrine has stood for over 50 years without legislative change and there should be tremendous hesitation to work a change at this point. [The prepared statement of Mr. Sklute appears as a submission for the record.] Senator Specter. Thank you very much, General. We now turn to Major General John Altenburg (Retired), former Assistant Judge Advocate General, United States Army, currently with the Office of Ethics and Business Conduct, the World Bank Group. General Altenburg received his bachelor's degree from Wayne State and his legal degree from the University of Cincinnati. Thank you for joining us, Judge Altenburg, and I note in your resume you were born in Philadelphia. Mr. Altenburg. Yes, sir. Senator Specter. We look forward to your testimony. STATEMENT OF JOHN ALTENBURG, MAJOR GENERAL (RETIRED), FORMER ASSISTANT JUDGE ADVOCATE GENERAL, U.S. ARMY, WASHINGTON, D.C. Mr. Altenburg. Senator Specter, thank you for allowing me to appear before the committee. I understand that my written testimony will be submitted in the record. Senator Specter. Without objection, your full statement will appear in the record. Mr. Altenburg. Yes, sir. There are several reasons to support the Feres doctrine, as General Sklute just mentioned, and I also am going to confine my remarks to the good order and discipline prong of the Feres doctrine. I am only going to discuss the effect upon military order, discipline, and effectiveness if service members are permitted to sue the Government or each other. I think there are two aspects to the good order, discipline, and effectiveness argument. One is the uniqueness of the military setting and the military mission that produces the examples that several of us have provided for you, the examples of inherently dangerous equipment and inherently dangerous training and the missions that we have talked about. But the second is one that we haven't talked about very often and I think it may be very significant, and that is the extraordinary regulation and control that the military exerts on itself directly related to the demands that have no civilian counterparts that we make on our soldiers that are different in kind and degree from the civilian sector. I think this is why the Supreme Court consistently defers to the military. The words ``good order and discipline'' sort of flow off our tongue, but we don't look behind those words very often to see, well, what are we really talking about, what is the unique about the military culture and the military society that would justify this kind of treatment. I think that the Supreme Court mainly works in favor of the military in this regard because of the disruption and the time- consuming nature the litigation would have on our commands. Now, it is true that our own accountability systems frequently cause disruption and frequently demand time away from duties for our soldiers and our leaders. But the additional reason of civilian courts not having the expertise to address many of the issues inherent in these inquiries is why I believe the Supreme Court has upheld Feres for so long. Soldiers die in training incidents, even though training is strictly controlled and regulated. Sometimes, training injuries and deaths are the result of negligence. The Congress provides compensation for these cases, and if compensation is the issue, then perhaps we need to work together to increase the compensation that would be available. If Feres did not apply to injured soldiers and families of dead soldiers, soon the military would, in my opinion, undermine our ability, No. 1, to maintain our combat readiness and, No. 2, to ensure accountability so that we can continue to conduct realistic training, while minimizing future incidents. Page 7 of my written testimony refers to an infantry platoon in training that I think illustrates the potential far- reaching effects of allowing civil litigation. An infantry platoon is the essential building block of your and my Army in this country. A ready example of a platoon is the group of statues that comprise the Korean War Memorial here in the District of Columbia. If a soldier on a platoon exercise were injured or killed in what is a common training event for such a platoon, to rehearse and execute a ground assault on a house or a hilltop or a cave, live fire, potential defendants would include two team leaders probably between the ages of 19 and 22 years old, three squad leaders, and a platoon sergeant, and that is before we even get to officers. A concern of mine has been that it sounds like we are worried always about the chain of command and superior officers, when, in fact, the real divisiveness would come because of all the junior leaders that could eventually be involved in civil litigation in instances like this. There are over 650 infantry platoons in this Army, sir, and when you think about how often they conduct this type of training--and that is just one sector of one arm of the service--I think it shows the far-reaching effects that civil litigation could have on our Army. Thank you, sir. [The prepared statement of Mr. Altenburg appears as a submission for the record.] Senator Specter. Thank you very much, General Altenburg. We now turn to Mr. Richard A. Sprague. He has a bachelor's degree from Temple in 1949 and a law degree from the University of Pennsylvania in 1953. He served as chief counsel to the House of Representatives Select Committee on the Kennedy Assassination and as first assistant district attorney in Philadelphia. Welcome, Mr. Sprague, and we look forward to your testimony. STATEMENT OF RICHARD A. SPRAGUE, COUNSEL, SPRAGUE AND SPRAGUE, PHILADELPHIA, PENNSYLVANIA Mr. Sprague. Thank you, Senator Specter, and I thank the committee for inviting me to speak here. I also ask that my complete statement be made part of the record. Senator Specter. Without objection, it will be. Mr. Sprague. Dealing with the argument I just heard made to you, Senator Specter, by the military personnel, I notice that they focus on training. I think that in the event the Congress were to recognize the error in the present interpretation of the Feres doctrine, you will find the military using as a basis of an exception the discretionary function when it comes to training, and I think the issue of training is being used as a red herring here. It is significant to me, Senator, that nobody has spoken about what it is that the Act specifically provides. There is no question about it that the Federal Tort Claims Act in 1946 for the first time allowed suits against the Government for the negligent acts of governmental employees. The Feres doctrine which has been applied arises from the words which nobody seems to deal with of precluding claims by servicemen for claims arising out of the combatant activities-- the combatant activities, I stress--of the military or naval forces or the Coast Guard during time of war. Notwithstanding that language, under the interpretation that the U.S. Supreme Court gave in Feres, we have these kinds of situations, as you yourself pointed out: A serviceman went into an Army hospital for having abdominal surgery. Eight months later, he has another surgery where a towel 30 inches long by 18 inches wide, marked ``Medical Department, United States Army,'' from the earlier abdominal surgery was discovered within his stomach. No one can question in that situation there was negligence, and had he been a civilian or had it happened in a civilian hospital, appropriate litigation could be brought. Yet, that is the precise fact pattern in the Feres doctrine that was applied by the Supreme Court. Another example--and there are hundreds of them--a Coast Guard rescue pilot is called out on a stormy night to rescue a boater in distress. The weather is so bad that the pilot requests radar guidance from the FAA, a civilian agency of the Federal Government. Following the FAA's direction, the pilot flies into the side of a mountain and is killed. If it were a civilian pilot, no question that his family and wife would be able to maintain a suit. Yet, under the Feres doctrine, no suit allowed. How you get it from the words of that exemption is beyond me. I do point out, as I think you said earlier, Senator Specter, Judge Scalia in his dissent in the Johnson case, which I believe is very persuasive, states that Feres was wrongfully decided and heartily deserves the widespread, almost universal criticism it has received. As for the local tort law rationale, he pointed out how, in United States v. Muniz, we allow Federal prisoners to sue the Federal authorities, depending on which State they are in and the various laws. We allow Federal prisoners to bring suit against the Government, but not our men in service. And we are not talking about in terms of combat and we are not talking about the kind of situation that they are dredging up in order to try to prevent the Congress from rectifying this wrong. Feres now has been interpreted to bar all injuries suffered by military personnel that are even remotely connected to his status as a member of the military. Judge Becker's dissent in the O'Neill case, joined by Judges Sloviter and McKee--and you, Senator Specter, and I hope the Congress recognize what an esteemed member of the judiciary Judge Becker is. He received recently the prodigious Devitt Award. In that case, how in the world can anybody say that the killing of this officer by the other officer in some way is harming military discipline? I notice that the caution light is coming up. The simple fact, Senator Specter, is the Feres doctrine as it is being applied now, not in the way the Congress originally wrote it--and by the way, if you read the Supreme Court opinions, they are going further and further away from what was even the original interpretations, being interpreted more broadly than ever, and they use as a basis that the Congress hasn't acted. Judge Higginbotham, a distinguished member of the Third Circuit, while he applied the Feres doctrine, decried it. He said it is unjust, it is not fair. The simple fact is the Feres doctrine saves the Government some money, but it is money saved at the expense of our servicemen and women who have been injured or killed as a result of acts or omissions of the Federal Government. We spend billions of dollars on military machinery and equipment. We should not be so parsimonious when it comes to providing proper redress to the most important resource of our military, the men and women who serve our country. Thank you. [The prepared statement of Mr. Sprague appears as a submission for the record.] Senator Specter. Thank you very much, Mr. Sprague. We now turn to Mr. Eugene Fidell, of the law firm of Feldesman, Tucker, Leifer, Fidell and Bank; a bachelor's degree cum laude from Queens College, a law degree from Harvard, active duty in the Coast Guard from 1969 to 1972. Welcome, Mr. Fidell. We look forward to your testimony. STATEMENT OF EUGENE R. FIDELL, COUNSEL, FELDESMAN, TUCKER, LEIFER, FIDELL AND BANK, LLP, WASHINGTON, D.C. Mr. Fidell. Thank you, Senator. First, one of the points that was made a few moments ago had to do with the notion of unit cohesion. The reference, of course, is to the legislation that was passed some years ago, a few years ago, for the ``don't ask, don't tell'' policy. Without developing the point more broadly because of time constraints, I would only say that I sincerely doubt that the Congress had in mind the Feres doctrine when it enacted its comments concerning unit cohesion. Now, is unit cohesion a potent factor? Obviously, it is. You don't want to do anything that will unduly generate friction within a military unit. Notwithstanding that, Congress obviously has to do some balancing and decide whether the game is worth the candle, and I think history teaches and experience teaches that the kinds of issues that may come up in Feres or Federal Tort Claims Act litigation are not the kind that really erode military discipline. Let me be very specific. It is certainly the case that already, under current law in a variety of contexts, GIs have a right to go to court, they have a right to make allegations, and they have a right to a judicial determination, rather than have the courthouse door slammed in their face, which is what the Feres doctrine does, obviously. You never get into court with the Feres doctrine, or you are out as soon as you are in. Let me give some illustrations. A GI can sue under the Tucker Act. A GI can sue to have his record corrected, for Administrative Procedure Act review of the decision of the boards for correction of military or naval records. These are the kinds of issues that may well bring into play command decisions of one kind or another. Yet, our society has sufficient flex in it that we recognize that larger public interests are served by giving GIs resort to the same kinds of judicial forums that other Americans have as well. I think civilian court proceedings arising out of those kinds of contexts may well be a nuisance to commanders, but without them civilian control of the military would be no more effective here than in a non- democratic society. Issues of malpractice, for example, to take the one that is so potent today and that many lawyers in private practice regularly get inquiries about, have nothing whatever to do with military discipline or any notions of command or unit cohesion. If the simple duty to respond to legal process or produce documents, such as agency records, and in some cases even be subjected to the normal discovery process contemplated by the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure, or even a trial from time to time, is too much of an intrusion, then the result would be to bar actions by military personnel under a raft of other statutes where their right to sue has never been questioned. [The prepared statement of Mr. Fidell appears as a submission for the record.] Senator Specter. Thank you very much, Mr. Fidell. Our next witness is Mr. Daniel Joseph from the firm of Akin, Gump, Strauss, Hauer and Feld; a bachelor's degree from Columbia in 1963, Harvard Law School, 1966, law clerk to Fifth Circuit Judge Irving Goldberg. He was with the Department of Justice from 1967 to 1971. Thank you for joining us, Mr. Joseph, and we look forward to your testimony. STATEMENT OF DANIEL JOSEPH, COUNSEL, AKIN, GUMP, STRAUSS, HAUER, AND FELD, LLP, WASHINGTON, D.C. Mr. Joseph. Thank you, Senator Specter. On behalf of Bonnie O'Neill and my firm and myself, we really do appreciate this opportunity to appear before the committee. I would like to thank you for organizing and chairing this hearing and looking into this old Supreme Court decision that we think is having an unfair and an unnecessary impact. I also would like to say that we represented, of course, Bonnie O'Neill all the way through her litigation. I want to stress that we did that without the payment of any fee, and this is the only Federal Tort Claims Act case in which I have represented a plaintiff. I represented the United States a little bit when I was at Justice. And I don't expect to be handling other such cases. Although the Supreme Court originally claimed in the Feres decision that its holding was based on the language of the Act, it later altered that rationale and now it doesn't hold, and the United States doesn't argue either here or in court, that there is any language in the Act that supports the doctrine. The Feres doctrine is therefore not a statutory, but a court-imposed restriction on a right that Congress gave to sue. The Court has taken back part of the right to sue that Congress intended to give members of the military. For three reasons, I think the Supreme Court had no power under the Constitution to impose the Feres doctrine. First, as I said, the doctrine has no foundation in the text and it is a judicially imposed limitation on the right to sue. But the Supreme Court doesn't have any power to condition or to partially repeal legislation passed by Congress that is not unconstitutional. Second, the subject matter of Feres is lawsuits by members of the military, and the Supreme Court says that the doctrine exists We have heard it justified today, on grounds of preventing threats to military decisionmaking and discipline. But it isn't the Supreme Court under the Constitution and it isn't the executive branch that gets to determine that. Under the Constitution, Article I, section 8, clause 14, it is the Congress that has the power to govern the ground and naval forces, and the Court has no business second-guessing Congress on judgments made in this area. The fact that the Court did so in Feres, based on the request of the executive branch as a party in a lawsuit, makes it all the more important for Congress to act to restore the appropriate constitutional balance. Finally, the Federal Tort Claims Act, of course, was a larger waiver of the sovereign immunity of the United States, and the Supreme Court has held many times, except in the Feres case itself, that it is only the Congress that gets to determine how large or how small a waiver of sovereign immunity should be. A second extremely important point is that the Feres doctrine was not necessary. Congress did the job of crafting the Act to take account of the particular problems that might be raised by extending that Act to military activities, and there are some very important exceptions in the statute itself that show that. Under Section 2680(j) of Title 28, there can't be any liability for combatant activities of the military in time of war. This represents Congress making a balance that the Court has not respected. It extended the ban far further than that. In addition, there can't be any liability for a cause of action arising in a foreign country. Again, that is a congressional balance that Congress struck that the Court has ignored. Finally, and perhaps most importantly, as has been referred to, Congress said that there can't be any liability under the Federal Tort Claims Act based on performance or non-performance of a discretionary function, whether or not the discretion is abused. Thus, the examples that we have been told about this morning, such as choices on how much security to supply in a military context or training exercises that have gone awry, would all be covered under the discretionary function exception that Congress imposed without the unnecessary additional breadth of the Feres doctrine. Now, one point I would like to make that I was kind of surprised to hear--I have heard repeatedly about the Veterans Benefits Act and this compensation system. The O'Neills did not receive any benefits at all under that system, which only applies to service people themselves and their dependents. If you are young and you are not married, as Kerryn O'Neill was not, you are not likely to have dependents. Thus, there is a tremendous difference between worker's compensation laws and the Veterans Benefits Act, and in many cases there are no benefits that are available. The other point that I just wanted to mention briefly here that is mentioned at length in the statement that I have filed is that it is possible for civilians to sue in many of the same contexts in which military are barred from suing. The best example is a case called Sheridan that involved at the Bethesda Naval Hospital a soldier who apparently at least was disorderly, who fired a rifle into the street there and hit a civilian passing in a car. The civilian successfully filed suit. If that person had been in the Army or a member of the military, suit would have been barred. But a suit by a civilian is permitted, and that is irrational if the purpose is to bar possible potential interference with military matters. So in our view, the Feres doctrine is both over-broad and doesn't cover things that purportedly arise out of the same concern. That is the reason why it needs comprehensive attention from the Congress. Thank you. [The prepared statement of Mr. Joseph appears as a submission for the record.] Senator Specter. Thank you, Mr. Joseph. We now turn to Ms. Bonnie O'Neill, from Kingston, Pennsylvania. Ms. O'Neill's daughter, Ensign Kerryn O'Neill, was the victim of the case which we have been talking about. We know this is a difficult situation for you, Ms. O'Neill, but we appreciate your being here to tell us your views on this matter. Chairman Leahy. If I might, Mr. Chairman---- Senator Specter. Senator Leahy, let me welcome you to the hearing. Chairman Leahy. Thank you. I just want to thank you for taking on this hearing. I am in another hearing when I am not here, but I did also want to come over and thank Ms. O'Neill for being here. I can only imagine how difficult this must be for you being here. I appreciate you taking the time and it is very good of you to do that. Senator Specter. Thank you. Ms. O'Neill, we look forward to your testimony. The floor is yours. STATEMENT OF BONNIE O'NEILL, KINGSTON, PENNSYLVANIA Ms. O'Neill. My following statements may seem like a plea for help, but how as a mother can I address you otherwise? I am overwhelmed to be here and my aim is one I have had in mind for 9 years. I would like to thank you, Senator Specter and Senator Leahy, for doing all the work to hold this hearing. The issue is important to me and my family, and also to other members of the military and their families. I was notified of my daughter Kerry's death in work December 1, 1993, an occurrence not imaginable previously even in my most horrible nightmares. Kerry was the youngest of my three children, with a brother, Ed, and a sister, Kristen, who is just 1 year older than Kerry. Since our family had no military background, I found Kerry's desire to apply to the United States Naval Academy surprising. Her final selection possibilities included some extremely prestigious colleges. Kerry decided to combine some suspense with humor by waiting until May 1, the deadline for admission to the Naval Academy, to make her announcement of college selection to us. We were all on edge. She designed a selection form with a box in front of each college, and on the morning of May 1 this form was hanging on my bedroom door with the United States Naval Academy checked. Kerry told me she had made her choice because she wanted the combination of academics with the opportunity of serving her country. Although I had always let Kerry know I would accept any decision she made, internally I was quite apprehensive. I realized, as she did, her future would be very difficult and demanding. I knew I had to trust the military with Kerry's life. Her next 4 years constantly challenged her and yet she responded to all of the challenges, excelling in every aspect of her naval career. We were all so very proud of her accomplishments. Kerry graduated in the top 5 percent of her class. In addition, she excelled in sports, receiving 12 varsity letters in 4 years. Although she was a walk-on at the track, she was the first female Division II All-American in women's cross- country and the first female athlete to qualify for NCAA Division I championships at the Academy. She set Academy records in cross-country and other track events, and she was honored in her senior year by receiving the award of the top honor for a female athlete, the Vice Admiral William P. Lawrence Award. Kerry was selected to serve as a representative of the United States Naval Academy in the Australian Navy during her final summer at the Academy. But most important, Kerry was a kind, sincere, and loving woman with high aspirations. People whose lives she touched will always remember her. Upon graduation from the Academy, Kerry received an appointment in the Civil Engineering Corps. After training in California, she was stationed at Coronado Naval Base and received the position of leader on a reconstruction project at the base. She loved the Navy and the naval base. She once said to me, I wake up with the sun in the morning and run with the sun going down at night, and I love my freedom. I am presenting this background to you to emphasize the possibilities Kerry's life held. Then came December 1, 1993, and her life was abruptly ended by her ex-fiance, George Smith, who also graduated from the United States Naval Academy. They were serving at different naval installations, working in entirely different jobs near San Diego, California. Smith seemed unable to deal with the ending of the engagement. As the time got closer to his serving his first tour of duty on a submarine, Smith's erratic behavior got more pronounced. He followed Kerry around and he appeared uninvited where she was socializing with other people. While this was disturbing, it did not seem all that unusual to people, considering Smith's situation. But 2 days before Smith was to start his first submarine tour, Kerry was obviously concerned and asked a friend, John Dye, at the office at which she worked to visit her that evening. Unfortunately, he could not. Then, while working out at the gym, Kerry met Lieutenant Alton Grizzard, another friend from the Academy who was well known as having been the quarterback on the Academy's football team, and she asked for help. Grizzard agreed and paid her a visit, during which they watched a movie. George Smith appeared uninvited and he and Kerry had a heated discussion in the lobby of the bachelor officer's quarters where she lived at the Coronado Naval Base. Smith went back to his apartment and, in fact, telephoned me at midnight, California time, which is 3 a.m. in Pennsylvania, as I was sitting up with a sick friend, to tell me that Kerry was dating another man asked what he could do. I told him to give her time to make up her mind. She is only 21. I have had to live with the memory of that phone call ever since. George did not listen to me. He returned to Kerry's BOQ carrying two loaded handguns past the guard to her room. He fired seven shots, killing Kerry, Alton Grizzard, and Smith then killed himself. A great emptiness grew in the lives of our family, friends, and associates. As the months went on, our family requested the Navy's results of the investigation into these murders. The Navy supplied that information and this is what we discovered. Kerry had been killed a day before he was to report for submarine duty. The Navy also found that Smith was psychologically unfit for submarine duty. He had a serious personality disorder, was extremely aggressive, and could not control his behavior under stress. In addition, he could not deal with the months of isolation from friends and family and the lack of apparent control of his personal situation that submarine duty involves. The Navy was made aware of this because 2 months earlier it had required Smith, like all candidates for submarine duty, to take a psychological screening test. The results of the screening under normal procedure would have dictated whether further psychological testing would be necessary. Smith's results were so unusual and departed so far from the norm that in its later investigation the Navy concluded that in Smith's case no further psychological testing would have been necessary to immediately disqualify him from submarine service. These results showed Smith to be more than four standard deviations above normal, above the 99.99 percentile in aggressive and destructive behavior, and more than two standard deviations above norm in six other categories, including low situational control, impulsive behavior, and negative motivation. These are obviously not impressive traits for a future nuclear engineer scheduled to report to duty on a nuclear submarine. George responded to test questions with answers such as ``I know how to make people uneasy when I want to. I can get away with anything I want.'' With the screening test abnormal results so pronounced, why didn't Smith's obvious mental unsuitability for submarines disqualify him for that duty? Why was screening performed if normal procedures wouldn't be followed for United States Naval Academy graduates? If Smith were disqualified, he would not have been under severe pressure that caused him to kill Kerry, himself, and Alton Grizzard. If these deaths had not occurred that December 1, could numerous military lives aboard a submarine have been sacrificed in the future when Smith suffered acute stress? The answer was and remains shocking and amazing to me. It is in violation of the Navy's procedures that the psychological screening tests were not read or scored by the Navy's civilian psychologist whose job it was to do that. Thus, the evil in these results was not discovered until a subsequent investigation, until after Kerry's life, Smith's life, and Grizzard's life and their future naval careers had been lost. I think that someone needs to assume responsibility for this. The Navy had appropriate measures which had identified Smith's very erratic and troubling mental problems, even though he may have appeared to be normal to those who knew him. But Dr. John Wallace, the Navy's civilian psychologist, just didn't read them. Although Dr. Wallace at first claimed he had never received these results until after Kerry's death, he indicated during the investigation that while testing of enlistees was worthwhile, that for officers who attended the Naval Academy it was unnecessary. The Navy finally read Smith's test results after Smith had killed three naval officers. Lieutenant Commander E.C. Calix, a Navy psychologist, performed the review and concluded that the test results showed that Smith would have been screened psychologically before being allowed to serve on duty, but also that the test results and other evidence of Smith's behavior showed clearly without further testing that Smith was not suited for submarine duty, including false answers to certain background questions on which he falsely stated, for example, that he had been married for 6 months. The test evaluation, according to Navy regulations, should have triggered further counseling and psychological evaluations, which most certainly would have necessitated additional treatment. Smith needed their help. If the Navy's procedures had been followed, my daughter's death most likely would not have occurred. The correct step defined by the Navy were not followed. The Navy admitted the negligence and oversight in their investigation, knowing that the Supreme Court's Feres doctrine would protect them from legal responsibility. I can't imagine why any entity, whether a person, a business, or a military service, should not be held accountable for its careless actions. Kerry had devoted her life to the military, and because of this fact her death was accepted without any possible repercussions. The rights of a civilian were denied her. Dan Joseph and his firm, Akin, Gump, Strauss, Hauer and Feld, did everything in their power to right this situation. For several years, we went from the district court, to the Third Circuit Court of Appeals, to the Supreme Court, and every appeal was denied. How could this injustice be perpetuated? We were told that the Supreme Court interprets the laws, but Congress is the country's lawmaker. We were told that the Feres doctrine is not based on any part of what Congress wrote in the Federal Tort Claims Act, and that if the statute would have applied as written, the Navy would have been responsible for its failure to read the test results. I think that the Congress, which we elect, understands these issues better than the Supreme Court, and I ask that the Congress do away with the Court's doctrine. I am here because I need your help. We have lost our case and there is no way we can change that. I am trying to prevent what happened to Kerry from happening to others. All of you, unless you had lived through a similar situation, could not possibly imagine the pain and frustration Kerry's family has endured. My goal today is to do what I can to prevent this from happening to others, to ask you to require that the United States assume responsibility for their actions when not in time of war. This will reduce the amount of negligence which the Feres doctrine licenses. The Feres doctrine should be repealed. We have lost Kerry, but her death will not be in vain. Senator Specter. Take your time, Ms. O'Neill. Ms. O'Neill. I am finished. Thank you. Senator Specter. Thank you very much for coming in today and for sharing with us your views. Senator Leahy? STATEMENT OF HON. PATRICK J. LEAHY, A U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF VERMONT Chairman Leahy. I will put my statement in the record, Mr. Chairman. I also have some questions that I will submit. Given the Johnson case where Justice Scalia questioned why morale is not equally harmed by barring recovery on behalf of servicemen injured by Government negligence, there is a question on that. I rhetorically ask the question, do you think the friends and classmates of Kerryn O'Neill think her family was treated fairly? I don't. I think it is high time to be looking at the Feres doctrine. I think it is a doctrine whose time has come and gone. I can't add to anything you have said, Ms. O'Neill. Obviously, everybody in this room, whether they are for or against the Feres doctrine, if they could make a wish, it would be to bring your daughter back. We can't do that, but I also agree with you that we ought to listen to you so that other families are not put in the bind you and your family were put in. I think you are very courageous to come here. I think Senator Specter deserves a great deal of credit for having this hearing. I will put my statement in the record. [The prepared statement of Senator Leahy appears as a submission for the record.] Senator Specter. Thank you very much, Senator Leahy. As I think all of you know, Senator Leahy is the chairman of the full committee and it was through his good offices that this hearing was scheduled. Senator Leahy makes the decision on which matters are of sufficient importance to call for the attention of the Judiciary Committee, so we thank him. Ms. O'Neill, you have obviously gone through a long litigation process and you had had the trauma of your daughter being murdered, and then to find out what had happened with respect to the Navy psychological test where people should have been on notice and it was an incident which should have been prevented. Then you went to counsel, Mr. Joseph, and your testimony shows your familiarity with the legalisms. It is a little hard for lawyers to understand how the court interpreted this provision, and we are going to come to that in the discussion among the lawyers here in just a moment or two. I would like to start with your reaction to what happened in the interpretation by the Federal courts in Pennsylvania where you are resident, where you litigated, from the language which has already been read, but let me repeat it. ``The Federal Tort Claims Act which provides for claims does not apply to any claim arising out of the combatant activities of the military or naval forces or the Coast Guard during time of war.'' Now, obviously, you didn't feel that your daughter's murder involved a combatant activity during time of war, did you? Ms. O'Neill. No, I did not. Senator Specter. And how did you respond to your expectation that your claims could be pursued in a court of law when that provision, which on its face does not apply to the circumstances involving your daughter's murder--how did you feel about that? Ms. O'Neill. I felt very upset when I realized there were things like the Feres doctrine coming into play. I felt very cheated. I feel more cheated for Kerry and the other people who may be involved because they are not held responsible for negligence. I did know when I approached Dan Joseph that it was going to be a very difficult lawsuit to ever win, unfortunately. I realized that, but we all wanted to go forward and their firm was gracious enough to feel the same dedication to it that I did. Senator Specter. Well, Ms. O'Neill, in the law there is an effort made to honor expectations, and when the law allows a recovery but has an exception and the exception doesn't apply at all to the case involving the murder of your daughter, I can see how you would respond. You would be resentful and surprised and really questioning what had happened. Ms. O'Neill. Obviously, obviously. I can't imagine this being allowed to continue. I have such strongly feelings also for other young men and women who are going to be in the same situation. I hear all these people talking about the military and how it protects them and the laws of order and what they need to have. This in no way, in my mind, even touches near what they are saying, in no way. There is no leadership, there are no general issues of war, there is nothing. I have a daughter. A man walked in and killed her. I can't imagine how it could apply. I can't imagine that this would be allowed to continue to go forward with this Feres doctrine. Senator Specter. Well, Mr. Joseph, thank you for pursuing this case on behalf of Ms. O'Neill. I have no doubt that when you examined the case law and agreed to undertake the case not on a time basis but perhaps on a contingent fee basis that you thought your chances of recovery were very slight. Why did you take the case? Mr. Joseph. Well, frankly, Senator, I knew something about the---- Senator Specter. Let me ask you the ancillary question. Did you think you had any chance to win this case? Mr. Joseph. Well, we had seen Justice Scalia's dissent in the Johnson case which was joined by Justices Brennan, Marshall and Stevens. Senator Specter. But this was not a case for original jurisdiction in the Supreme Court. Mr. Joseph. No, but we thought that we had a chance of getting the Supreme Court to take the case. I knew it was small. I mean, it was not taken because we thought we had a large chance, and we thought it was an unjust decision and worth trying to fight. You can never say that you expect the Supreme Court to take something. Senator Specter. Did you petition for cert? Mr. Joseph. Yes. Senator Specter. Were there any dissents? You only need four to get cert granted. Mr. Joseph. That is right. No dissents were noted. As I think you know, it is rare that a dissent is noted on a denial of certiorari. Frankly, when Judge Becker said in his opinion in the Third Circuit that he thought that the Feres decision was wrong and that the Supreme Court should grant cert and reexamine it, I will tell you that at that point I had a flutter in my heart because I knew that Judge Becker is very highly respected at the Supreme Court. And we had our hopes that that might be our ticket in, but it wasn't. Senator Specter. Judge Becker has gotten the Court to take quite a few cases. Mr. Joseph. Yes. Senator Specter. General Sklute, how about this language, the language of exclusion: ``The Government is not liable under the Federal Tort Claims Act for injuries to servicemen that arise out of or in the course of activity incident to military service'' ? That is what the Court said in Feres. Give me your best lawyer's interpretation as to how you could get that rule out of the Federal Tort Claims Act. You have a right to remain silent. That is a pretty tough question, but I am interested in your answer. Be on guard, General Altenburg, you are next. Mr. Sklute. Can I answer that question in this way, sir? I am going to refer back to what Ms. O'Neill just said, and believe me, all of us express our condolences to you. This is a tragic, tragic case, a case that cries out for some--it cries out for---- Senator Specter. Legislation? Mr. Sklute. Not legislation, sir. It cries out for action to be taken against those who were involved in the incident and may have committed some types of negligence that may be--I don't know what the facts of this case would show, other than the fact that---- Senator Specter. Whom would Ms. O'Neill sue, Mr. Smith, who killed himself? Did he have an estate? Mr. Sklute. If there is evidence of a violation of the UCMJ, criminal action should be taken against individuals. Senator Specter. Who? Mr. Sklute. Accountability within the Navy. Senator Specter. Criminal charges? You are going to exonerate the service from civil liability, but allow criminal charges to be brought? Mr. Sklute. If the purpose of the civil action is---- Senator Specter. They would have to go to Mr. Sprague for that. Mr. Sklute. Excuse me, sir. I am sorry. Senator Specter. Go ahead. Mr. Sklute. If the purpose of the civil action is compensation and accountability, there is already a scheme in place for compensation. If compensation is inadequate, then action could be taken to adjust that, No. 1. No. 2, if it is accountability, I can assure you that the services have so many different tools at their disposal to assure accountability---- Senator Specter. General Sklute, come to my question. How can you read the Federal Tort Claims Act and derive the principle of Feres that the Government is not liable under the Federal Tort Claims Act for injury to servicemen that arise out of or in the course of activity incident to military service? Mr. Sklute. I would have to go back to the Feres decision itself, sir. When I read Feres 10 years when I was on active duty--8 years ago---- Senator Specter. Would you supplement your testimony with an answer to that question? Mr. Sklute. I certainly will, yes, sir. Senator Specter. I have been a lawyer for a little longer than you have and I couldn't answer that question, but perhaps General Altenburg can answer the question. How under the Act, General, can you find a justification for that holding? Mr. Altenburg. You can't find it in the words of the Act, sir. It is clearly judge-made law. Senator Specter. That may just be the testimony to push us over the top on our legislative effort. Mr. Altenburg. Well, Senator, I think it was a recognition by the Court at that time and in the 50 years since of the uniqueness of the military mission and why the military quite frankly needs that protection. Senator Specter. Well, in this room the most frequently repeated statements relate to judges should interpret the law, not make law. Senator Thurmond has made that standard operational procedure and everybody who comes in agrees with that. When the comment is made that Congress has had the opportunity to correct it for 50 years, that is true. Congress hasn't passed a budget act this term. Congress hasn't passed any of 13 appropriations bills. We have in conference the energy bill and the insurance bill on terrorism and the patient's bill of rights. To say that because Congress hasn't done something that Congress agrees with it is really as much a non sequitur as the holding in Feres is from the case. But, of course, that is on this side of the bar, not on your side. Mr. Fidell, you are an expert in matters involving the military. I understand that you have lectured on the subject and have extensive experience and qualify as an expert. Based on your expert knowledge, what effect do you think a repeal of Feres would have on good order and discipline in the military? Mr. Fidell. I think it would have, in fact, a positive effect, and I would like to explain why. Senator, we have for a generation been living in an all-volunteer environment. There is no conscription, and my hunch is I am not alone on this panel in the view that maybe reinstatement of the draft would be a salutary thing for a variety of social and national reasons, but there is no immediate prospect of that change being made. Therefore, people of the age bracket that we look to for enlistments, for accession of new personnel, have to have the feeling that they are going to be basically treated fairly when they are in the military. That means the military justice system has to operate in a fair manner. It also means that the basic terms and conditions under which people are asked to put their lives on the line have to be essentially fair. If that is there, then people will continue to do the patriotic thing and step forward and help defend the country and our entire way of life. If it is not there, then we have placed an impediment in the path of national defense. While no one can say that this, that, or the other thing is going to make or break the military's ability to defend the country, every factor that bears on the conviction that our military personnel have that they are being treated fairly has to be viewed as a precious and significant matter. When you have military personnel and their families--who play a potent role in the entire system--when you have those constituencies, if you will, having a shade of doubt, having an erosion of their confidence in the essential fairness of the arrangements under which they or their loved ones serve the country, then I think you have paid a penalty, not a measurable one, but a penalty nonetheless. That is, I think, what is involved here. Senator Specter. Mr. Sprague, you heard General Sklute's suggestion for criminal prosecution to redress the wrong. You have had a lot of experience in the criminal law. Can you see any way that a criminal sanction would lie or be bringable under any of the cases we have talked about, the medical malpractice or the automobile case or any of the examples that we have seen, as an alternative to repealing the Feres doctrine? Mr. Sprague. None whatsoever, Senator. I think that response was typical of the in-bred feeling by the military that this judge-made law which they conceded, the Feres doctrine, they want to keep. They want to keep it for a great number of reasons, which I think basically are that they don't want to have the civilian supervision. I don't think they want to have the investigation referred to by Ms. O'Neill. Liability and paying of damages isn't just paying people money. The people that have to pay then learn from that process and they learn to improve their own system. I have been in the military, I have been in the submarine service in World War II. Obviously, the military wants to keep everything within itself and exclude the civilian supervision to the extent it can. I would like to point out, Senator Specter, to show this judge-made law that we are talking about, Feres, and its horribleness, had the person who was with Ms. O'Neill's daughter not also been a naval personnel, same facts--had that person been a civilian, he could have sued. This judge-made law discriminates, in fact, against people in the service. If the courts recognize that Congress does something that is unconstitutional, the courts have no reluctance in ruling on that constitutional issue. This time, it is the reverse. The Congress passed a very specific exception which you have read-- combatant, time of war. It is time for the Congress to assert itself and keep that exception as the Congress intended it to be, not this judge-made law. It operates in a discriminatory fashion. One of the officers referred to it as a compensation system. Did they not hear Ms. O'Neill and did they not hear her counsel say there was no compensation? I could go into case after case where the benefits that one may get has nothing to do with the compensation that one should get for the negligence by Government. Thank you. Senator Specter. Can you see any basis at all--the same question I asked the Generals--for this sort of a rule to come out of the Federal Tort Claims Act? Mr. Sprague. None whatsoever. Senator Specter. What would you think, Mr. Sprague, of trying to restructure the Feres doctrine so that we made an exclusion for items like order and discipline or training programs or matters which were broader, say, than being a combatant and not limited to time of war, because you have a lot of training and you have a lot of military matters in peacetime--I am going to ask the same questions of the other witnesses--but to try to structure it in a way which accommodates the core rationale that the military has used so that you don't have this blanket rule which bars all sorts of cases totally unrelated to the military? Mr. Sprague. Well, as I said, you have in there present the exemption for discretionary functions. I happen to think that covers the kinds of situations that they were dredging up here. Senator Specter. I don't believe it will help the judicial interpretation, but who can tell? Mr. Sprague. Who can tell? I think the proposed bill that you submitted, Senator, would make it clear that service people are entitled to the protection of the Federal---- Senator Specter. I have seldom seen you prompted in the courtroom, Mr. Sprague. You are at a hearing. Let the record show that Tom Sprague handed you a book. Mr. Sprague. Servicemen should be entitled to the coverage of the Federal Tort Claims Act, except in the situations that Congress intended in the first place. The amendment that you proposed really says exactly that. You are now stating that servicemen shall be entitled to the coverage of the Federal Tort Claims Act, except for the limitation that you initially spelled out. If you are willing to hear a suggestion, however, you use the words ``military personnel'' in your proposed bill. I think, to be consistent with other parts of the Act, it should be ``uniform services'' and would suggest that correction. I would also suggest that you talk about--you have ``military or naval forces of the United States.'' I would make it ``uniform services of the United States or employees of the Federal Government.'' Last, I would make a proposal that your amendment state that the amendment shall apply to all claims that have not been finally adjudicated as of the effective date of the Act, and final adjudication to mean a claim in which the trial court has entered a final order for which there is no outstanding motion for reconsideration, appeal, or petition for writ of certiorari. Those would be what I would suggest as some corrections to your bill, but I think your bill would correct this problem. Senator Specter. Well, thank you for the suggestions. We will take a close look at them. General Altenburg, what would you think of leaving you some latitude for the considerations you raised, order and discipline, but allow suits, say, in matters like Ms. O'Neill's? Mr. Altenburg. Senator Specter, we haven't talked much about the medical corps and the medical business of the military, and there is probably not time here to do that. But one of the reasons that I would be opposed to any modification in the Feres doctrine is because the medical business of the military is directly linked to command and to good order and discipline. It is not a medical care system, simply. Senator Specter. Well, suppose you left medical out, too? Mr. Altenburg. I am not sure what would be left, Senator. Senator Specter. Well, you would have auto accident cases. You would have the murder of Ms. O'Neill's daughter. We have gone longer than anticipated. What I would like you to do, General Altenburg, and also General Sklute and Mr. Fidell and Mr. Joseph--Mr. Sprague, you have already answered the question--give some thought to the way you might structure a bill which would accommodate the core considerations that have been raised here with respect to unit cohesiveness, the issues of order and discipline, et cetera. If you would provide that to the committee, I think that Senator Leahy's agreement with the bill is significant. He controls the docket, he puts it on the docket, and you have got two votes; you only need eight more to have it reported out. And although we are close to adjournment on this session and nothing will happen, this hearing will be on the books and will carry forward for the next Congress. Mr. Sprague? Mr. Sprague. Senator Specter, let me just read to you the language of the discretionary function that is in there now because I think it covers what you are asking. The exception is any claim--and it is 2680(a)--any claim based upon an act or omission of an employee of the Government exercising due care in the execution of a statute or regulation, whether or not such statute or regulation be valid, or based upon the exercise or performance, or the failure to exercise or perform, a discretionary function or duty on the part of a Federal agency or an employee of the Government, whether or not the discretion involved be abused. I suggest to you that covers everything you are talking about. Senator Specter. Well, perhaps it does. When you give me your suggestions, gentlemen, give me a comment on that point as well. We will leave the record open for 14 days, which is the customary time. Ms. O'Neill, we are not giving you any more assignments. We are just going to thank you for coming. Thank you all. That concludes the hearing. 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