[Senate Hearing 107-894]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
S. Hrg. 107-894
EXECUTIVE BRANCH NOMINATIONS
=======================================================================
HEARING
before the
COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY
UNITED STATES SENATE
ONE HUNDRED SEVENTH CONGRESS
SECOND SESSION
__________
MARCH 5, 2002
__________
Serial No. J-107-64
__________
Printed for the use of the Committee on the Judiciary
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COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY
PATRICK J. LEAHY, Vermont, Chairman
EDWARD M. KENNEDY, Massachusetts ORRIN G. HATCH, Utah
JOSEPH R. BIDEN, Jr., Delaware STROM THURMOND, South Carolina
HERBERT KOHL, Wisconsin CHARLES E. GRASSLEY, Iowa
DIANNE FEINSTEIN, California ARLEN SPECTER, Pennsylvania
RUSSELL D. FEINGOLD, Wisconsin JON KYL, Arizona
CHARLES E. SCHUMER, New York MIKE DeWINE, Ohio
RICHARD J. DURBIN, Illinois JEFF SESSIONS, Alabama
MARIA CANTWELL, Washington SAM BROWNBACK, Kansas
JOHN EDWARDS, North Carolina MITCH McCONNELL, Kentucky
Bruce A. Cohen, Majority Chief Counsel and Staff Director
Sharon Prost, Minority Chief Counsel
Makan Delrahim, Minority Staff Director
C O N T E N T S
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STATEMENTS OF COMMITTEE MEMBERS
Page
Biden, Hon. Joseph R., Jr., a U.S. Senator from the State of
Delaware....................................................... 1
Grassley, Hon. Charles E., a U.S. Senator from the State of Iowa. 180
Hatch, Hon. Orrin G., a U.S. Senator from the State of Utah...... 3
Leahy, Hon. Patrick J., a U.S. Senator from the State of Vermont. 186
PRESENTERS
Allen, Hon. George, a U.S. Senator from the State of Virginia
presenting Barry D. Crane, Nominee to be Deputy Director of
Supply Reduction, Office of National Drug Control Policy and J.
Robert Flores, Nominee to be Administrator, Office of Juvenile
Justice and Delinquency Prevention, Department of Justice...... 12
Bennett, Hon. Robert, a U.S. Senator from the State of Utah
presenting Scott Burns, Nominee to be Deputy Director for State
and Local Affairs, Office of National Drug Control Policy...... 11
Levin, Hon. Carl, a U.S. Senator from the State of Michigan
presenting Mary Ann Solberg, Nominee to be Deputy Director,
Office of National Drug Control Policy......................... 6
Levin, Hon. Sander, a Representative in Congress from the State
of Michigan presenting Mary Ann Solberg, Nominee to be Deputy
Director, Office of National Drug Control Policy............... 8
Stabenow, Hon. Debbie, a U.S. Senator from the State of Michigan
presenting Mary Ann Solberg, Nominee to be Deputy Director,
Office of National Drug Control Policy......................... 7
Warner, Hon. John, a U.S. Senator from the State of Virginia
presenting Barry D. Crane, Nominee to be Deputy Director of
Supply Reduction, Office of National Drug Control Policy and J.
Robert Flores, Nominee to be Administrator, Office of Juvenile
Justice and Delinquency Prevention, Department of Justice...... 14
STATEMENTS OF THE NOMINEES
Burns, Scott, Nominee to be Deputy Director for State and Local
Affairs, Office of National Drug Control Policy................ 52
Questionnaire................................................ 55
Crane, Barry D., Nominee to be Deputy Director of Supply
Reduction, Office of National Drug Control Policy.............. 37
Questionnaire................................................ 40
Flores, J. Robert, Nominee to be Administrator, Office of
Juvenile Justice and Delinquency Prevention, Department of
Justice........................................................ 75
Questionnaire................................................ 80
Solberg, Mary Ann, Nominee to be Deputy Director, Office of
National Drug Control Policy................................... 19
Questionnaire................................................ 22
WITNESS
Flowers, Robert L., Commissioner of Public Safety, Salt Lake
City, Utah..................................................... 16
QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS
Responses of Barry Crane to questions submitted by Senator
Grassley....................................................... 137
Responses of Barry Crane to questions submitted by Senator
Kennedy........................................................ 154
Responses of Scott Burns to questions submitted by Senator Durbin 126
Responses of Scott Burns to questions submitted by Senator
Grassley....................................................... 128
Responses of Mary Ann Solberg to questions submitted by Senator
Grassley....................................................... 161
SUBMISSIONS FOR THE RECORD
Administrative Office of the United States Courts, Washington,
D.C., letter and attachments................................... 174
Speaker's Task Force for a Drug Free America, Washington, D.C.,
letter......................................................... 188
NOMINATION OF MARY ANN SOLBERG, OF MICHIGAN, NOMINEE TO BE DEPUTY
DIRECTOR, OFFICE OF NATIONAL DRUG CONTROL POLICY; BARRY D. CRANE, OF
VIRGINIA, NOMINEE TO BE DEPUTY DIRECTOR OF SUPPLY REDUCTION, OFFICE OF
NATIONAL DRUG CONTROL POLICY; SCOTT BURNS, OF UTAH, NOMINEE TO BE
DEPUTY DIRECTOR FOR STATE AND LOCAL AFFAIRS, OFFICE OF NATIONAL DRUG
CONTROL POLICY; AND J. ROBERT FLORES, OF VIRGINIA, NOMINEE TO BE
ADMINISTRATOR, OFFICE OF JUVENILE JUSTICE AND DELINQUENCY PREVENTION,
U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE
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- -
TUESDAY, MARCH 5, 2002
U.S. Senate,
Committee on the Judiciary,
Washington, DC.
The committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:06 a.m., in
room SD-226, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Joseph R.
Biden presiding.
Present: Senators Biden, Hatch, and Grassley.
STATEMENT OF HON. JOSEPH R. BIDEN, JR., A U.S. SENATOR FROM THE
STATE OF DELAWARE
Senator Biden. The hearing will please come to order.
I have looked forward to this hearing for some time, in
large part because I wanted in front of my colleagues to assume
the chairmanship of this committee for a moment with Senator
Hatch as the ranking member to remind me of the good old days.
The real reason we are here today is to fill some vacancies
that are very, very important, and we have an illustrious panel
to introduce our nominees. As is the usual procedure, we move
based on seniority, but before we do let me suggest that of our
three nominees, both Barry Crane and John Flores are going to
be introduced or referenced by Senator Warner. Senator Bennett
will speak to Mr. Burns. Senator Allen will speak to Messrs.
Crane and Burns, and Senator Levin and Senator Stabenow and
Congressman Levin will speak to Ms. Solberg. We are going to
proceed after opening statements in the order of seniority of
those that are here.
This morning, the Judiciary Committee is going to consider
the four nominations, three for deputy director positions at
the Office of National Drug Control Policy and one for
Administrator of the Department of Justice's Office of Juvenile
Justice and Delinquency Prevention.
As chairman of the Subcommittee on Crime and Drugs, I am
pleased to be able to chair this hearing today. Rather than go
through the impressive credentials of the nominees, I will
submit my statement for the record and forgo that, since they
are obviously going to be referenced by our distinguished
introducers here.
[The prepared statement of Senator Biden follows:]
Statement of Senator Joseph R. Biden, Jr.
This morning the Judiciary Committee will consider four
nominations, three for Deputy Director positions at the Office of
National Drug Control Policy and one to be the Administrator of the
Department of Justice's Office of Juvenile Justice and Delinquency
Prevention. As the Chairman of the Judiciary Subcommittee on Crime and
Drugs, I am pleased to be chairing this hearing today because I will be
working closely with all of our nominees.
Our first nominee is John Robert Flores, who I understand goes by
Bob. Bob Flores was nominated by the President last year to be the
Administrator of the Office of Juvenile Justice and Delinquency
Prevention. The mission of the Office of Juvenile Justice and
Delinquency Prevention is to provide national leadership, coordination,
and resources to prevent and respond to juvenile delinquency and
victimization. This mission is as critical today as it was almost 30
years ago when the Office was first created.
Juvenile crime has been down in recent years--the juvenile arrest
rate for violent crime in 1999 was 36% below its peak in 1994--but it
is still too high. The most recent data indicates to us that juveniles
are involved in 33 percent of all burglary arrests, 24 percent of all
weapons arrests, and 13 percent of all drug abuse violation arrests.
We need to do better. We need to give our young people smart crime
prevention programs, and we need to tell those kids who won't change
their ways that there is a consequence attached to misbehavior.
I look forward to working with the Administration to accomplish
these goals. We are once again attempting to reauthorize the Juvenile
Justice Act--Its authority expired in 1996 and it's time to get that
Act extended. I hope the Administration can provide us with their
thoughts on where to take juvenile justice in the coming years. And
that is why I welcome the Administration's nominee to head the juvenile
justice office here this morning.
Bob Flores was born in Puerto Rico and currently resides in
Virginia. He is a graduate of Boston University and Boston University
School of Law. He is a prosecutor by training. Bob spent five years as
an Assistant District Attorney in the Manhattan District Attorney's
Office. From 1989 to 1997, he worked at the Department of Justice in
the Child Exploitation and Obscenity Section of the Criminal Division.
At Justice, Bob developed policies to investigate and prosecute child
pornography and sexual abuse. He left Justice to be the Vice President
and Senior Counsel for the National Law Center for Children and
Families.
Next, we have Mary Ann Solberg who was nominated by the President
to be the Deputy Director of the Office of National Drug Control
Policy.
I am pleased that the President has picked someone with such a
strong prevention background to be second in command at the Drug Czar's
office.
Mrs. Solberg has worked tirelessly for the past decade in her own
community to reduce drug use, so she knows first hand how to get
results. She is currently the Executive Director of both the Troy
Michigan Community Coalition for the Prevention of Drug and Alcohol
Abuse and the Coalition of Healthy Communities, two non-profit
organizations made up of businesses, government, and community leaders
that seek to reduce substance use and abuse by teenagers. She has also
been very involved in the Community Anti-Drug Coalitions of America and
was one of eleven national leaders appointed by President Clinton in
1998 to the Advisory Committee for the Drug Free Communities Program.
Mrs. Solberg also has a great deal of experience working closely
with law enforcement over the years. She has helped to establish a drug
court in Troy Michigan, trained local prosecutors, and worked hand in
hand with the local police.
Prior to her involvement with substance abuse prevention, Mrs.
Solberg worked as a teacher, a job at which I know she excelled because
she was named ``Teacher of the Year.''
Her nomination has been endorsed by a wide range of groups
including the Partnership for a Drug Free America, the Community Anti-
Drug Coalitions of America, the Legal Action Center, and the National
Association for Children of Alcoholics. I welcome her here today.
Next, we have Dr. Barry Crane, who has been nominated to be the
Deputy Director for Supply Reduction, meaning that he will be
responsible for advising the Drug Czar on policies and programs to
reduce the supply of drugs.
Barry Crane graduated from the U.S. Air Force Academy, earned a PhD
in Physics from the University of Arizona, and was a National Security
Fellow at Harvard's Kennedy School of Government.
He served in the Air Force for 24 years, retiring in 1991 at the
rank of Colonel. He has also taught physics and engineering at Chapman
College in New Mexico and the George Washington University.
Dr. Crane has spent the past decade as the Project Leader for
Counterdrug Analysis at the Institute for Defense Analysis. In this
capacity he has examined the effectiveness of operations to interdict
cocaine and has done research and evaluations for the United States
Interdiction Coordinator, the Assistant Secretary of Defense for
Special Operations and Low Intensity Conflict and the United States
Coast Guard.He has also worked closely with the State Department, the
Justice Department, the Drug Enforcement Administration, the Customs
Service, and the United Nations Drug Control Program.
Finally, we have Scott Burns, the nominee to be the Director of the
Bureau of State and Local Affairs, meaning that he will work with state
and local government agencies and public interest groups to develop and
implement the National Drug Control Strategy. He will work closely with
Federal law enforcement and will oversee the High Intensity Drug
Trafficking Area program.
Scott Burns is no stranger to law enforcement. He has served as the
County Attorney in Iron County, Utah since 1986. He has prosecuted over
100 felony jury trials, including several high profile rape, sexual
abuse of children, capital murder and narcotics distribution
prosecutions.
He has also served on several national and state boards including
the White House Commission on Illegal Narcotics and Addiction, the Utah
Police Academy Board of Trustees, the Utah Sentencing Commission, the
Utah Chiefs of Police Association, and as Chairman of the Southern Utah
Law Enforcement Agencies Board of Directors.
Prior to becoming County Attorney he was a partner with Burns &
Burns Attorneys at Law. He also has been an adjunct professor at
Southern Utah University, teaching various criminal justice and law
courses from 1992 to 1998.
Scott Burns is a graduate of Southern Utah University where he was
the starting quarterback for four years. He must have been good,
because he was inducted into the University's Hall of Fame in 1996. He
studied law at California Western School of Law where he served as
Student Bar Association President.
I welcome all of our nominees here this morning and I look forward
to hearing from each of them.
Senator Biden. With that, why don't I turn to Senator Hatch
for any statement he may have, and then we will go to the
introducers.
STATEMENT OF HON. ORRIN G. HATCH, A U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE
OF UTAH
Senator Hatch. Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate
your chairing these hearings. This is a very important hearing
for four critical executive branch nominees. I want to joint
Senator Biden in welcoming all of our colleagues here today and
welcoming all of our nominees to today's hearing.
The Justice Department nominee, Mr. John Robert Flores, has
been selected to be Administrator of the Office of Juvenile
Justice and Delinquency Prevention, an arm of the Department of
Justice whose mission is to prevent and respond to our youth
delinquency problems.
We are also fortunate to have today the three nominees to
be deputy directors of the White House Office of National Drug
Control Policy, ONDCP. In selecting Scott Burns, a Utahn whom I
personally know is up to the task to handle State and local
affairs, Dr. Barry Crane to head the Office of Supply
Reduction, and Mary Ann Solberg to be deputy czar, the
President has assembled an excellent team of dedicated and
knowledgeable professionals.
I commend President Bush for his willingness to confront
the issue of drug use, especially among our youth, and ensure
him that I will support him, Director Walters, and their fine
team before us today in all of their efforts.
Now, I could go on and on, too, but we do have our
colleagues here to speak to each and every one of these. I just
want to say that having watched Scott Burns through the years,
I don't know that I have ever met a better law enforcement
official or prosecutor than Scott. He is just an honest,
decent, wonderful man.
His wife is an excellent lawyer herself, and so Washington
is going to get two very good lawyers to work here. I just
couldn't speak more highly of any person than I can of the two
of them. They have their beautiful young daughter here today
and I am proud of her as well.
I will just leave it at that. There are so many nice things
I would like to say about Scott, but I will count on my
distinguished colleague, Senator Bennett, to carry that load.
Thanks, Mr. Chairman.
[The prepared statement of Senator Hatch follows:]
Statement of Senator Orrin G. Hatch
Mr. Chairman, first I want to thank you for taking the time to
chair this hearing today for four critical executive branch nominees. I
want to join Senator Biden in welcoming all of our nominees to today's
hearing. Our sole Justice Department nominee, Mr. John Robert Flores,
has been selected to be Administrator of the Office of Juvenile Justice
and Delinquency Prevention, an arm of the Department of Justice whose
mission is to prevent and respond to our youth's delinquency problems.
We are also fortunate to have today the three nominees to be Deputy
Directors of the White House Office of National Drug Control Policy,
ONDCP. In selecting Scott Burns--a Utahn, who I personally know is up
to the task--to handle State and Local Affairs, Dr. Barry Crane to head
the Office of Supply Reduction, and Mary Ann Solberg to be the Deputy
Czar, the President has assembled an excellent team of dedicated and
knowledgeable professionals. I commend President Bush for his
willingness to confront the issue of drug use, especially among our
youth, and ensure him that I will support him, Director Walters, and
their fine team before us today in their efforts.
Mary Ann Solberg has over 25 years of community service under her
belt, and we should be grateful that she has agreed to accept the
President's call to serve as Deputy Czar. She chairs the Advisory
Commission on Drug-Free Communities, serves in an advisory capacity to
the Center for Substance Abuse Prevention, and is a Board member of the
Community Anti-Drug Coalitions of America. She has been recognized on
numerous occasions for her dedicated work with families and communities
to prevent youth drug use. She is supported by numerous treatment and
prevention groups, including the Partnership for a Drug-Free America
and the Community Anti-Drug Coalitions of America. I am confident she
will continue her hard work in preventing youth drug use once
confirmed.
Dr. Barry Crane also has a long history of combating drug use. Dr.
Crane has served as a Project Leader for Counterdrug Research at the
Institute of Defense Analyses for the last ten years. He served in the
United States Air Force for 24 years where he piloted fighter jets and
earned a distinguished combat record. He is eager to bring his
knowledge and experience to ONDCP to help reduce the supply of illegal
drugs coming into America.
Scott Burns also has had extensive experience with combating the
trafficking in and manufacturing of illegal drugs. As the Iron County
Prosecutor in southern Utah for the past 12 years, he has worked
closely with law enforcement and community groups to stem the rising
use of Methamphetamine and other dangerous drugs. He started Utah's
first narcotics task force, the model of which has been repeatedly used
to form other successful narcotics task forces around the state. Scott
has proven that he can bring people together to work for a common
cause, and I am confident he will make an excellent Deputy for State
and Local Affairs.
Our Justice Department nominee, John Robert Flores, will also play
an important role in preventing our youth from going down the wrong
path. The Office of Juvenile Justice coordinates federal and state
programs, and provides grants and funding to localities and private
organizations. Mr. Flores has been at the Department before. During his
time at the Department of Justice, Mr. Flores helped develop and carry
out two important enforcement programs: Operation Long Arm, which
targeted American citizens importing child pornography from foreign
sites, and Innocent Images, which addressed trafficking in child
pornography on the Internet. He has prosecuted hundreds of criminal
cases, including the first federal case involving the distribution of
child pornography via computer, and written numerous amicus briefs in
key obscenity and child pornography cases while serving as Senior
Counsel for the National Law Center for Children and Families. We look
forward to his views on how he will continue his work to protect
children in his new position at the Department once confirmed.
We all agree that if we are to win the war on drugs in America, we
need a comprehensive policy aimed at reducing both the demand for and
supply of drugs. I was not surprised that the President's $19.2 billion
anti-drug budget is supported by a comprehensive National Drug Control
Strategy that sets clear and specific national goals for reducing drug
use in America. The Strategy is based on three core principals: (1)
Stopping drug use before it starts; (2) Healing America's drug users;
and (3) Disrupting the drug market. Prevention, treatment, and
interdiction, the three integral components of an effective drug
control strategy, will all play a pivotal role in realizing the
President's recently announced goals to reduce illegal drug use by 10
percent over 2 years, and by 25 percent over 5 years. These goals apply
both to drug use among young Americans between the ages of 12 and 17
and among adults.
I am confident that these goals can and will be achieved
through the tenacious work of our dedicated law enforcement
agencies, community coalitions, educators, biomedical
researchers, clergy, and, most importantly, caring families.
However, achieving such goals will be an uphill battle
considering it will require reversing a decade long trend of
dramatic rises in youth drug use. And, although overall drug
use has appeared to level off over the past few years, it has
done so at unacceptably high levels. Additionally, youth use of
particular drugs has never stabilized. According to the most
recent national surveys, youth drug use of so-called ``club
drugs'' such as Ecstasy and GHB, has been steadily rising for
some time. Since 1997, use of Ecstasy among 12th graders has
increased dramatically by 130 percent. It is simply shocking
that by the time of graduation from high school, 54 percent of
our youth have used an illicit drug. We must act immediately to
reverse these soaring numbers, and I look forward to hearing
our panelists's ideas on how we can bring down these numbers.
I am excited about the team of determined and no-nonsense
professionals this President has selected. His Drug Strategy is
aggressive, but that is what we need and the youth of this
country deserve. In this regard, I am very interested to hear
from Ms. Solberg how she intends to use her vast experience
with, and knowledge, of community coalitions and parents groups
to implement the President's Strategy and to improve prevention
efforts across the country.
Furthermore, I know that the President has proposed to
disrupt the drug market at home and abroad. Domestically,
attacking the economic basis of the drug trade involves the
cooperative, combined efforts of federal, state, and local law
enforcement. Internationally, we must continue to target the
supply of illegal drugs in the source countries. I look forward
to hearing specifically from Mr. Burns and Dr. Crane on what
ideas they have to achieve this goal.
Mr. Chairman, last year I introduced S. 304, the ``Drug
Abuse Education, Prevention, and Treatment Act of 2001,'' a
bipartisan bill, that I drafted with Senator Leahy, you, and
Senators DeWine, Thurmond, and Feinstein. The legislation, as
you well know, seeks to increase dramatically prevention and
treatment efforts, and I remain confident that S. 304 will
become law this session. I am eager to get our panelists' views
on this legislation to the extent they are familiar with it and
to learn what additional measures they believe should be
undertaken by Congress to assist in our efforts on curbing drug
abuse.
Mr. Chairman, Robert Flowers, Utah Commissioner of Public
Safety, is here today to introduce and support Mr. Burns. As
head of State law enforcement activity, Commissioner Flowers
played an integral role in ensuring the security and success of
the Salt Lake Winter Olympic games. Commissioner Flowers and
his Deputy have come 2,500 miles to support Scott and I ask if
you might allow him to introduce Scott along with the first
panel. I am so proud of him. He was the key coordinator of the
numerous federal, state, and local agencies involved in the
Olympic's security. Given the success of the games and the
security provided, I, and the nation, owe Bob a much deserved
thank you.
Senator Biden. Thank you very much.
I know we don't often do this this way, but, Senator
Grassley, would you like to say anything.
Senator Grassley. I think I will pass.
Senator Biden. Thank you.
Well, why don't we begin with the chairman of the Armed
Services Committee, who is apparently conducting hearings as we
speak and has to get back, and also is the most senior of the
panelists.
Would you like to begin, Senator Levin?
PRESENTATION OF MARY ANN SOLBERG, NOMINEE TO BE DEPUTY
DIRECTOR, OFFICE OF NATIONAL DRUG CONTROL POLICY BY HON. CARL
LEVIN, A U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF MICHIGAN
Senator Levin. Mr. Chairman, thank you, and Senator Hatch
and Senator Grassley. Thank you for convening the hearing.
Seniority has many advantages. One of them is apparent here
this morning that even though I came after the other witnesses
here, you allow me to go first.
Senator Biden. In other words, you get to turn the lights
off at night.
Senator Levin. I notice that Senator Warner, who is my
ranking member, is back there minding store, so I really had
better get back quickly.
Senator Biden. I would very much like you to get back.
[Laughter.]
Senator Levin. I am sure he will be here or at least will
want to submit a statement.
I am here for Mary Ann Solberg. I just can't think of
anybody who would be more appropriately appointed to this
position than Mary Ann Solberg. As Deputy Director of the
Office of National Drug Control Policy, she will be putting to
great use the hands-on experience that she has had in her
hometown for many, many years.
She has been the executive director of the Troy Community
Coalition for the Prevention of Drug and Alcohol Abuse, in
Troy, Michigan, which is a suburb of the city of Detroit. She
has been the executive director for about ten years of that
coalition. She has been also the executive director of the
Coalition of Health Communities.
In this position, Mr. Chairman and members of the
committee, she has managed a coalition of 140 organizations,
institutions, and public officials. She has chaired a 200-
member citywide advisory committee. She has managed almost $5
million in substance abuse prevention funds.
Her hands-on experience has led her to start a drug court
in her community. She regularly helps to train judges, police,
and prosecutors about substance abuse. She has worked with the
local prosecutor to address emerging substance abuse issues and
to establish policy.
She has been the recipient of many endorsements for this
position, including by the National Association of Drug Court
Professionals, Partnership for a Drug-Free America, Community
Anti-Drug Coalitions of America, the National Association for
Children of Alcoholics, State Associations of Addiction
Services, and many other organizations. She really is
extraordinarily experienced for this particular position.
My brother, Sandy, knows her even better than I do and he
is here to add his words. All I can say is, as is almost always
the case, he will be speaking the words of his younger
brother--or at least the sentiments of his younger brother, not
the words; the words are his own.
Senator Biden. More eloquently, did you say? Did you say
more eloquently?
Senator Levin. Yes, probably more eloquently.
Senator Biden. That is what I thought.
Senator Levin. We always maintain that 1-percent safety
valve because sometimes his words don't exactly reflect mine,
but I am sure that this morning he will be, as well as Senator
Stabenow, who is here to present our nominee.
I just want to thank this committee for holding these
hearings again, and hope that she can be promptly recommended
to the Senate so we can vote on her confirmation.
Senator Biden. I have one question. Was that all designed
to make the case that you are younger than your brother?
Senator Levin. It was all designed to give him an
introduction to the committee.
Senator Hatch. Sander, he has been a heavy load to carry
through the years, I am sure.
Mr. Levin. I have no comment, Senator.
Senator Biden. Let me ask my colleagues from Virginia and
Utah, are your time constraints--are you tight, because for
continuity maybe we could continue on Solberg here?
Mr. Levin. I would be glad to wait.
Senator Biden. Well, I was going to go to Senator Stabenow
next and then to you, Sander, and then we can move to the next
nominees.
PRESENTATION OF MARY ANN SOLBERG, NOMINEE TO BE DEPUTY
DIRECTOR, OFFICE OF NATIONAL DRUG CONTROL POLICY BY HON. DEBBIE
STABENOW, A U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF MICHIGAN
Senator Stabenow. Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman. It is my
great pleasure to be here with Senator Levin and Congressman
Levin, and I will not comment on the age of my colleagues or
anything else related to my colleagues.
Senator Biden. Other than to note you are younger than both
of them.
Senator Stabenow. Yes, that is right.
I am extremely pleased to be here, and I thank you for
giving me the opportunity to offer my very strong and
enthusiastic support for the President's nomination of Mary Ann
Solberg as deputy director in charge of drug policy for the
National Office of Drug Control Policy. I am very pleased and
appreciate very much the President's nomination.
As Executive Director of the Troy Community Coalition for
the Prevention of Alcohol and Drug Abuse, Mary Ann has been
able to get real results, and I think that is what is so
important about this nomination. This is someone who knows how
to get results by mobilizing a broad community coalition in the
war on drugs.
The coalition's 140 members include local schools and
businesses, law enforcement, the courts, and agencies and
service groups. Working together, this coalition has been able
to change behavior and attitudes toward drugs and alcohol in
both children and adults, and we know that that is no small
task to be able to accomplish that.
In certain targeted areas, drug and alcohol abuse has
dropped by 50 percent, with the added benefit that child abuse
rates have also dropped. The war against drugs and alcohol
abuse has my full support, as does this nomination. I know that
the casualties of inaction are the health of our children and
our families.
The only thing that makes me sad about supporting this
nomination is that Michigan will sorely miss her leadership,
but we know that we will benefit by this nomination going to
confirmation and the leadership of this wonderful woman that
will take place in touching the lives of families around this
Nation. We are very proud of her talents. We know that it is
now our turn to share Mary Ann Solberg with the rest of the
Nation, and I am extremely proud and pleased to be here to
support this nomination.
Thank you.
Senator Biden. Thank you very much, Senator.
Congressman Levin.
PRESENTATION OF MARY ANN SOLBERG, NOMINEE TO BE DEPUTY
DIRECTOR, OFFICE OF NATIONAL DRUG CONTROL POLICY BY HON. SANDER
LEVIN, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF MICHIGAN
Representative Levin. Thank you so much, Mr. Chairman, and
Senator Hatch and Senator Grassley. It has been my privilege as
I have been in this institution to come to know all three of
you and I cherish our relationship. That makes me especially
pleased to be here today with colleagues from the Senate, one
of whom I served with in the House, and others I know very
well, including Senator Bennett's sense of humor.
I have known Mary Ann Solberg now for about nine years. I
first came to know her when the district changed and I
represented Troy and she was the Executive Director of the Troy
Community coalition. It was the leading light in this effort in
the State of Michigan, and I think beyond, and I saw her work
across all kinds of lines.
I saw her work with law enforcement officials, with the
faith-based community, with parents, with students. I saw her
essentially work with everybody, and as a result the experience
in Troy spread. They formed the Coalition of Healthy
Communities which encompassed other communities around the city
of Troy, which is a little less than 100,000 people in suburban
Detroit.
Because of her activities more than anything else, I became
deeply involved and came to work with Rob Portman on the Drug-
Free Communities Act. So in substantial measure, Troy was one
of the two or three models that sparked this Federal
legislation that I think has been meaningful in this battle
against the scourge of drugs. So she brings here a broad-based
experience across all lines with drug courts, with law
enforcement, with faith-based communities, with the business
community, and with the education community.
After the Act was put into place, the advisory committee
was set up, and Mary Ann was appointed to it and later became
its Chair. Through that and her other work on national
committees, and she has been involved in several, she came to
know this town, though never forgetting where she came from,
and had a chance to work with people throughout the country.
I would like to say to the three of you and to all the
staff that is here from other members and to the other
Senators, I was struck when I walked in the door by the number
of people who were here from the groups that she has worked
with. The Drug-Free Communities Advisory Committee I have come
to know; I have served on it. I came in the door and I saw
those faces, and the people who came here to support here
believe in her capabilities.
The head of CADCA and other representatives from CADCA with
whom she has very much worked, and also the National
Association of State Alcohol and Drug Directors and the Legal
Action Center--their attendance here says so much, I think,
about who she is and their feelings about her capabilities to
serve in this capacity.
So I have a written statement and I would ask that it be
entered into the record.
Senator Biden. Without objection, it will be.
Representative Levin. This isn't the time, because your
colleagues need to go on, but I would be glad, if there are any
questions, to answer them. I think that with the person
appointed by the President as the new drug czar that Mary Ann
will be a terrific team. I think it is a reflection of the
commitment of the administration to make drug policies and
programs work at all levels that they decided to appoint Mary
Ann Solberg.
So I could not recommend anybody more highly, and as I said
to one of you earlier, I think as she performs you will be very
proud of Mary Ann, as Troy is, as Michigan is, as the advisory
committee is that is so well represented here, as CADCA is
proud of her, so well represented, and the other national
organizations she has worked with, including the First Lady of
Ohio.
Thier attendance here, I think, says so much about how
capable she is and how she will bring to this function
dedication, determination. She is hard-nosed, she is a tough
administrator. In other words, she will be terrific, and I hope
you will vote her out and she will be confirmed.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Levin follows:]
Statement of Representative Sander Levin
Mr. Chairman. Members of the Committee. I have had the privilege of
working with Mary Ann Solberg for the last ten years. I am honored to
be here before you on her behalf.
Mary Ann Solberg has the commitment, credentials, and charisma to
be an outstanding Deputy Director of the Office of National Drug
Control Policy (ONDCP).
She is an accomplished activist on behalf of reducing the demand
for drugs in our nation. I have seen first hand the work she has done
in Troy, Michigan as the Executive Director for the Troy Community
Coalition for the Prevention of Drug and Alcohol Abuse and I have seen
her bring this experience to the national level.
Consider, that in the last ten years I have known Mary Ann, she has
developed and sustained one of the best anti-drug coalitions in the
country. She has fostered the growth of numerous other community
efforts in the surrounding communities; including, but not limited to
forming and running the 17-community umbrella organization, Coalition
of Healthy Communities. She provided the inspiration and the real life
examples that led Rob Portman and myself to author the Drug Free
Communities program, a federal grant program that Congress has recently
extended for a second five years.
She has brought this expertise to the national level through
leadership positions with numerous boards and advisory committees. She
was appointed to the Advisory Committee to Develop a National
Prevention System for the National Center for Substance Abuse
Prevention. She was appointed to the Advisory Committee of the National
AD Council's Community Anti-Drug Campaign. She was appointed to the
Advisory Commission on Drug Free Communities and was subsequently
elected to serve as co-chairperson.
If you want to bring the best from the ``field'' to Washington,
D.C., you are doing so by confirming Mary Ann Solberg's nomination.
Mary Ann will devote herself to making what ONDCP does every day
meaningful to our local communities.
Yet the person that I have come to know in Mary Ann Solberg has a
set of skills that in many respects is even more important then the
vitally important perspective she will bring to the position of Deputy
Director of ONDCP.
Mary Ann Solberg is also a skillful manager who will build
consensus, demand accountability, and focus like a laser beam on
results. The City of Troy, or for that matter southeast Michigan, are
not easy areas in which to organize. Mary Ann has captured people's
attention, she has brought everybody to the strategic table, kept them
involved in numerous activities, and together they have delivered
results. I would hazard to guess that there is not a constituency group
with which Mary Ann is unfamiliar. She has trained police, prosecutors
and judges. She has partnered with them on numerous projects; including
the establishment of a new drug court. She has generated active
engagement by the business and faith communities. She has done this at
home and she has trained numerous others to do the same nationally.
I have seen Mary Ann in action in small group meetings, larger
conferences and national meetings. She is a tremendous force; always
generating countless ideas on how to further the cause of reducing
substance abuse, always focusing everyone on concrete action steps,
always empowering everyone to participate fully and always, always
doing so with an energy, enthusiasm, and commitment to purpose which is
contagious.
I am confident that Mary Ann will excel in this position as she has
in all others. She will inspire us to be tireless in our efforts, to
look at a problem from all different angles, to bring all forces and
all constituencies together to develop a solution and to demand at all
times that ONDCP is working for those like her who work day-in and day-
out devoting their lives to reducing drug abuse in our local
communities.
Senator Biden. Thank you very much, Congressman.
Now, I know all of you have busy schedules, so those of you
who have already introduced, we fully understand your need to
leave.
Now, we will hear from one of the two men from Utah, which
I learned in the last month or so is the first among the States
in the Utah now. What a tremendous job you all did on the
Olympics. We are going to hear from Mr. Flowers in a moment,
which is an unusual practice. After these introducers, we will
ask Mr. Flowers from Salt Lake to introduce one of our nominees
as well. What an incredible job you all did, you and Orrin and
the governor and Mit Romney. You have made America proud.
Congratulations to Utah.
Senator Bennett?
PRESENTATION OF SCOTT BURNS, NOMINEE TO BE DEPUTY DIRECTOR FOR
STATE AND LOCAL AFFAIRS, OFFICE OF NATIONAL DRUG CONTROL POLICY
BY HON. ROBERT BENNETT, A U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF UTAH
Senator Bennett. Thank you very much for those kind words,
Mr. Chairman, and I will accept them, as will Orrin, on behalf
of the State, but recognize that they really belong to a whole
bunch of people. Mr. Flowers is very much one of those, so I
appreciate your allowing him to appear here. The Olympics were
a great experience and we will bask in the glow of them for
some time.
I first got acquainted with Scott Burns and Alice Burns 10
years ago when we were going through an arcane trial by ordeal
that is established in Utah's political laws; that is, we were
both running for office and going through a series of 29
country conventions. You go to each one.
In our case, there were four candidates for the Senate;
five candidates for governor; two candidates for attorney
general, one of which was Scott Burns; and an indeterminate
number of candidates for the House, depending on which district
you were in. But those of us who were running statewide had to
go to every one.
You are allowed two minutes and you sit there through all
of that. And in the process of moving from county to county,
you get to know the other people on the road show pretty well.
Scott and Alice Burns were a very attractive young couple with
a very attractive new baby, and his first experience at
statewide politics. He was running for attorney general and he
was running under a fairly significant handicap which
ultimately prevented him from winning, although he came within
a few hundred votes. As he put it, ``I come not from rural
Utah, but from remote Utah.'' Most of the candidates for
statewide office all come from the Salt Lake area and he came
from Cedar City, where he was the Iron County attorney.
In that process, as I say, I became well acquainted with
him and with Alice, and enormously found of them. So after the
election was over and he had failed to gain the attorney
general spot by just a few hundred votes--and I think if he had
lived a little farther north and would have been taken care
of--I continued the friendship and found, as I would call him
from time to time about various things relating to law
enforcement, that he not only was a good law enforcement
officer himself, which is his basic credential, but he was the
most wired, plugged-in guy I had ever come across.
There wasn't anybody in law enforcement across the country
that he didn't know. I would call him with weird questions and
he would say ``I will get back to you.'' And he would get on
the phone and call his network of friends and come back with
the answer that was spot-on. I was tremendously impressed with
that. A county attorney in IronCounty, Utah, is not supposed to
know the network of law enforcement people around the country, but he
did.
So when he shows up as the nominee for Deputy Director for
State and Local Affairs, I cannot think of a better fit. There
isn't anybody who would come into this job with a better
network of contacts in State and local affairs on drug issues
than Scott Burns.
So you have his official biography in front of you and you
have all of the information in front of you. Senator Hatch, who
has been the driving force behind this nomination, is to be
congratulated on recognizing Scott's talent. I simply want to
make it clear that I have absolutely no reservations whatsoever
in recommending him to this committee and to this Senate and to
this Nation as the very best possible man to have this
particular assignment. His background qualifies him, his
network of contacts prepares him, and I think the country will
be extremely well served as he assumes this responsibility.
Senator Biden. Well, thank you, Senator. Scott should
understand that your recommendation also means a lot to this
committee, and the fact that the former chairman and maybe
chairman again of this committee thinks highly of him quite
frankly about assures his nomination, at least as far as I am
concerned. I thank you very much for your comments.
Senator Allen?
PRESENTATION OF BARRY D. CRANE, NOMINEE TO BE DEPUTY DIRECTOR
OF SUPPLY REDUCTION, OFFICE OF NATIONAL DRUG CONTROL POLICY AND
J. ROBERT FLORES, NOMINEE TO BE ADMINISTRATOR, OFFICE OF
JUVENILE JUSTICE AND DELINQUENCY PREVENTION, DEPARTMENT OF
JUSTICE BY HON. GEORGE ALLEN, A U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF
VIRGINIA
Senator Allen. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Senator Hatch,
Senator Grassley. I would like to introduce Dr. Crane and
Robert Flores. Mr. Burns has been well handled by all these
others, as well as obviously Ms. Solberg.
Seeing Mr. Burns and seeing their 11-year-old daughter,
Carlie--I have a son who is 10 and who will soon be 11--when
they move here, I hope they move to Virginia. It seems like
they would be a good pair.
Senator Bennett. I have already recommended that to them.
Senator Allen. Virginia? Good, good, good.
Representative Levin. A little young.
Senator Allen. A little young, but you also have to think
ahead.
Senator Biden. Keep your registration in Utah.
By the way, that young man behind you is writing a paper on
government. I told her she could start off with one word,
``confusion.''
Senator Allen. Well, let me first introduce Mr. Crane here,
Mr. Chairman, since we are talking about the Office of Drug
Control Policy.
Dr. Barry Crane is the nominee by the President to be
Deputy Director for Supply Reduction at the National Office of
Drug Control Policy. Dr. Barry Crane has a reputation, and it
is a well-earned reputation, as a man committed to the
principle of unbiased analytical research driving policy
decisions. That is also coupled with the combination of
operational practicability and academic rigor in the area of
supply reduction, and that will help him serve with distinction
upon his confirmation by the Senate.
You have his resume and his record of achievement and
performance. I would like to highlight a few. In the last ten
years, he has served as project leader for the counter-drug
research effort at the Institute of Defense Analysis. In this
position, he has led research scientists and consultants in
examining the effectiveness of interdiction operations against
the cocaine business enterprise and the technical performance
of many interdiction systems.
Furthermore, Dr. Crane has worked extensively with the
Department of State and the Department of Justice, the Drug
Enforcement Administration, the U.S. Customs Service, and the
United Nations drug control program efforts in Bogota, Lima,
and Vienna.
He obviously possesses in-depth knowledge of the complex
heroin and cocaine business and their markets. He is always
looking for better ways of doing it and he is the person
ideally suited for this position. I would say that he also has
a distinguished career--besides thedistinguished career in
various drug control efforts, he served our Nation for 24 years in the
Air Force, where among other duties he piloted fighter jets and earned
a distinguished combat record.
He earned his bachelor's degree in physics from the U.S.
Air Force Academy in 1967, and his M.S. in 1976 and his Ph.D.
in physics from the University of Arizona. Continuing his
education, he did become a National Security Fellow at
Harvard's JFK School of Government in 1987.
He has been married for 34 years to Sherrie Crane, who is a
docent at Gunston Hall, which is the home of George Mason, who
wrote the Virginia Declaration of Rights which became the
embodiment of the Bill of Rights--another reason why you should
move to Virginia because of all that wonderful history.
It is my pleasure obviously to highly recommend Dr. Crane
for this nomination, and hope your swift confirmation will be
forthcoming.
Now, I also have the pleasure of introducing and presenting
to this committee John Robert Flores, who is President Bush's
nominee to be Administrator of the Office of Juvenile Justice
and Delinquency Prevention in the Justice Department.
Mr. Flores is a graduate of Boston University School of Law
and is a member of the bar in New York, Massachusetts, and
Virginia.
Both of these individuals, by the way, live in Virginia,
showing good judgment, I might say, Dr. Crane in Burke. Mr.
Flores, though, has extensive backgrounds actually outside of
Virginia. He has been a lawyer for 17 years and has held a
number of positions in and outside of government.
He served as an assistant district attorney in the Roxbury,
Massachusetts, public defender's office. He also served as an
acting deputy chief and senior trial attorney in the Child
Exploitation and Obscenity Section of the Justice Department's
Criminal Division, and most recently as senior counsel and vice
president for the National Law Center for Children and Families
in Fairfax, Virginia. His commitment to justice is well-known.
He has been a tireless advocate on behalf of children and
families, addressing the issues of child sexual abuse and
exploitation.
Also, since 1997, Mr. Flores has assisted a research effort
on international sex trafficking that is currently based at
Johns Hopkins University's School for Advanced International
Studies. Mr. Flores brings substantial management expertise to
this position, having managed national investigative programs,
a section within the Justice Department's Criminal Division,
and a non-profit educational organization that assists State
and local law enforcement.
Mr. Flores has also shown an ability to work constructively
with both sides of the aisle on important issues. For example,
Mr. Flores was part of the congressionally-created Commission
on Online Child Protection. The commission was charged with
informing the Congress on what avenues should be taken to
increase protection of children on the Internet. The commission
reached several unanimous conclusions and Mr. Flores was
instrumental in bridging gaps between commissioners.
In addition to his honorable service to his country, Mr.
Flores is a devoted husband and father. He is married to Ingrid
Flores, who is here, and they have three children, Robert,
Catherine, and Clare.
Senator Biden. I might add they are showing incredible
patience. I don't mean with your comments; I mean with all of
us. [Laughter.]
Senator Allen. I know. I have one that just turned 4 and I
was just amazed at how quiet they were even in the beginning. I
think, Mr. Chairman, the perspective of a parent does help,
understanding what his children might be faced with and those
challenges.
I would also add, Mr. Chairman, Mr. Flores is a Hispanic
American. He can serve as a role model. I know there are
members and many of us who are concerned with the challenge
that the office will face with the issue of disproportionate
minority confinement, and I think that brings a special
sensitivity and understanding in that leadership role.
So as a teacher, a scholar, and a commentator on
constitutional and criminal law, Mr. Flores has certainly shown
and demonstrated the skills necessary to lead this effort in
the Office of Juvenile Justice and Delinquency Prevention. I
highly recommend him to the committee, and thank you all for
your consideration.
Senator Biden. Well, I thank you, Senator, and I thank all
of our colleagues. We appreciate your time and your effort and
your input. Thank you very, very much.
Senator Allen. I would say that my remarks are also on
behalf of Senator Warner, who is in the Armed Services
Committee undoubtedly now, and I know he shares my feelings.
Senator Biden. Well, I was about to say, with the
permission of the committee, Senator Warner has signed
statements--he apologized for not being able to be here--with
regard to both the nominees mentioned by his colleague and I
will enter those in the record, as if read, along with an
introductory and complimentary statement relating to the
nominees from the chairman of the committee, Senator Patrick
Leahy.
[The statements of Senator Warner follow:]
Statement to the Judiciary Committee on the Nomination of Barry Crane
To Serve as Deputy Director of the Office of Supply Reduction at the
Office of National Drug Control
Chairman Leahy, Senator Hatch, and my other distinguished
colleagues on the Senate's Judiciary Committee, I am pleased today to
introduce to the Committee Colonel Barry Crane, a Virginian, who has
been nominated to serve as Deputy Director of the Office of National
Drug Control Policy's (``ONDCP'') Office of Supply Reduction.
As you know, the ONDCP's purpose is to establish policies,
priorities, and objectives for the Nation's drug control program. The
division within the ONDCP that Mr. Crane has been nominated for, the
Office of Supply Reduction, is responsible for advising the Drug Czar
on policies and programs to reduce the supply of drugs in this country.
In my view, Mr. Crane's background makes him well-suited for this
position.
Mr. Crane is currently a project leader in the Operational
Evaluation Division at the Institute for Defense Analysis where he
examines the effectiveness of interdiction operations against the
cocaine business enterprise.
Prior, Mr. Crane served in the United States Air Force for over 20
years, starting as a cadet at the Air Force Academy, later becoming a
fighter pilot, and eventually retiring as a Colonel in September of
1991.
In addition to his military service, Colonel Crane, also has an
extensive education. After graduating from the Air Force Academy with a
B.S. in Physics, Mr. Crane attended the University of Arizona where he
received both a master's degree and a Doctorate. Mr. Crane later served
as a National Security Fellow at the Kennedy School of Government at
Harvard University.
Colonel Crane has dedicated a large portion of his career to public
service, and I thank him for his willingness to serve our country again
as Deputy Director of the Office of Supply Reduction.
I look forward to the Committee reporting his nomination favorably
and for a confirmation vote before the full Senate.
Statement to the Judiciary Committee on the Nomination of Robert Flores
To Serve as Administrator of the Office of Juvenile Justice and
Delinquency Prevention at the Department of Justice
Chairman Leahy, Senator Hatch, and my other distinguished
colleagues on the Senate's Judiciary Committee, I am pleased today to
introduce to the Committee Mr. J. Robert Flores, a Virginian, who has
been nominated to serve as Administrator for the Office of Juvenile
Justice and Delinquency Prevention (``OJJDP'') within the Department of
Justice.
The OJJDP's mission is to provide leadership, coordination, and
resources to prevent and respond to juvenile delinquency and
victimization. OJJDP accomplishes this by developing prevention and
intervention programs and by working to improve the juvenile justice
system so that it protects public safety, holds offenders accountable,
and provides treatment and rehabilitative services.
As you all know, the OJJDP has an important mission. In my view,
Mr. Flores' extensive background in public service, the law, and in
child protection makes him well qualified to work in support of OJJDP's
mission.
Mr. Flores started his career after graduating from law school at
Boston University by becoming an Assistant District Attorney in
Manhattan. During his 5 years as prosecutor in New York, Robert Flores
prosecuted a wide array of criminal cases.
In 1989, Mr. Flores joined the U.S. Department of Justice, working
as a Senior Trial Attorney in the Criminal Division's Child
Exploitation and Obscenity Section. In this position, Mr. Flores worked
extensively in child sexual exploitation and computer crimes.
In 1997, Mr. Flores joined the National Law Center for Children and
Families, whose objective is focused on the protection of children and
families from the harmful effect of illegal pornography. In this role,
Mr. Flores specialized in providing advice and assistance to federal
and state prosecutors across the country on the investigation and
prosecution of child pornography, child sexual abuse, and crimes of a
similar nature.
Mr. Flores has obviously dedicated a large part of his career to
both public service and to protecting children. I am grateful that he
is willing to continue his public service, and I believe that his
background will serve him well at the OJJDP.
I look forward to the Committee reporting his nomination favorably
and for a confirmation vote before the full Senate.
Senator Biden. Thank you, gentlemen. We appreciate it very
much.
Now, in a very unusual procedure, in deference to our
colleague, Senator Hatch, but also in recognition of the
incredible job the Commissioner of Public Safety in Salt Lake
City, Utah, did during the Olympics--and I really cannot
exaggerate the importance of the job done by Robert L. Flowers
and the whole State of Utah, but as Commissioner of Public
Safety he had an enormous responsibility. The whole world was
looking at him and he conducted it with great class, skill, and
efficiency, and we welcome him here today.
This is the time, sir, that you should wish you were being
nominated for something because it would be done by acclamation
at this point. But welcome, Mr. Flowers.
Would you like to make any comment, Senator?
Senator Hatch. Well, I would like to thank you, Mr.
Chairman, for permitting this. This is highly unusual to have
another witness in this type of a hearing, but I just can't
tell you what this man has meant to the world at large in
helping to bring about security for the Olympic Games that
really was second to none, and in helping to bring about one of
the few times in history where State, local, and Federal
agencies all worked together in unison, resolving difficulties
as they go, to provide the protection for one of the world's
most impressive and important events. Bob Flowers deserves an
awful lot of the credit for that, and others who are here with
him.
So it is a privilege to have you here, Mr. Flowers, and I
just want you to know how proud we all are of you and how proud
we are of the way the Olympics went. Our country is very much
impressed with what went on.
Senator Biden. There is one condition, Commissioner, that
you not announce for the United States Senate at any time in
the near future. Otherwise, you will not be permitted to
proceed.
STATEMENT OF ROBERT L. FLOWERS, COMMISSIONER OF PUBLIC SAFETY,
SALT LAKE CITY, UTAH
Mr. Flowers. No, sir. I can personally commit to you that
is not going to happen. I am from remote Utah and we only have
like 30 voters out there, so I probably wouldn't get very far
with that.
Senator Biden. Well, I will tell you the whole world
watched with initially a bit of dread and a great deal of
concern. And I cannot exaggerate how important it was, the
coordination and the work and the incredible--I mean, having
dealt with the criminal justice system and coordination between
State and local officials for the bulk of my public career of
29 years in the Senate, it is incredibly difficult.
It was gigantic in its proportions, and its consequences,
if you had failed, would have been beyond being able to be
calculated, in my view, in terms of the impact on this country.
So we in Delaware owe you a lot.
But at any rate, please proceed.
Mr. Flowers. Well, thank you very much. It is an honor to
be here, first off, but we can't emphasize enough that this was
an effort both Federal, State, and local. We came out here
after September 11 looking for additional support and the doors
were open, and it was an American event, not a Utah event. We
were just pleased to be a part of that. It went well because of
Brian Stafford at the Secret Service and many others who were
assisting, some of them in this room, actually.
First of all, it is a little unraveling to be here. When I
looked down and saw my name as a second panel and then, Senator
Biden, you saying that was an unusual practice--that worried me
a bit. You know, we were a little bit unraveled when we walked
in the door.
I will just take a few minutes and talk about Mr. Burns. As
a former police chief and now Commissioner of Public Safety, we
faced a heck of a problem in southern Utah. We were a border
town on the Arizona-Nevada border. We had Mexican mafia,
motorcycle gangs. You know, when you are in a border town you
are kind of on your own there. We had individuals who were
committing homicides living in Nevada, selling their drugs in
Arizona, and dumping their bodies in Utah.
I had worked with Mr. Burns. We had probably one of the
first task forces in the West, frankly, and it was very
successful and we were taking hundreds of kilos of cocaine off
the interstates, hundreds of thousands of dollars. We were
quite successful.
We came out and talked with the DEA and they were quite
impressed with what we did and wanted to know how we were doing
that. A lot of it was frankly led by the prosecutor,because
without a strong prosecutor who has a balanced position on things, you
run into some problems.
Then I was selected as a police chief and I inherited this
problem. I didn't really know how to deal with it. We were,
again, a border town on three States, and I went to Mr. Burns
and I said, you know, I don't know what to do with this. We
were being overrun by meth. We had some real issues in our high
schools. Through Senator Hatch, we were able to get the DEA
down there and they helped us solve our problem. So as far as
being networked, I have to agree with Senator Bennett. I don't
know how he did that, but I know I and my community will be
eternally grateful for that because our city did change.
One of the things also that Mr. Burns was talking about
long before it was popular was things like drug courts and
rehabilitation and things like that, and making sure that the
law enforcement officers were approaching this legally, that we
were doing things right, and that our case could stand up in
court.
I mean this sincerely: he formed my enforcement policy. I
have every intention of modeling his leadership style and drug
task force leadership statewide. Now, we are looking in
Colorado, we are looking into Wyoming, and we are trying to
team up with Nevada. So we are looking at this task force
concept and making it really work in our three- or four-State
area out there.
So as far as it goes from Utah law enforcement--and I also
spoke to my Wyoming counterparts, my Colorado counterparts, and
an individual from Nevada, and they said please express our
support for Scott Burns in this nomination, and if there is
anything we can do, we are here to assist that.
With that, I will be brief and I will go back and sit down,
but thank you for the opportunity. It is an honor to be here,
Senator Biden, and be before you also, Senator Hatch.
Senator Biden. Well, it is an honor to have you here.
I know Moab. I got off a raft on the Colorado River for two
days in Moab, Utah, and it is a great place. The water got kind
of calm down there, Scott, and I got tired. After 10 days I got
off the river and went to the hot spots in Moab, in 1974 and
1975. It is a beautiful and fascinating part of the world,
although things have changed a little bit, as you have said,
with the growth of trafficking in meth and a lot of other
substances.
It is an example of what rural communities--and I know it
is not a little town, but what rural communities and isolated
communities, particularly on borders between States, are
undergoing. Most people don't realize it, but you realize it,
that a child is more likely to be exposed to meth and to
cocaine in rural America than in urban America today.
Mr. Flowers. That is right.
Senator Biden. Fifty-five percent of the over 3,000
counties in America have no psychologists, no psychiatry, no
treatment, no anything in those facilities. So the job is a
heck of a lot tougher, and it is a credit to you and to the
person you are praising that you have got things pretty well
under control.
So welcome, and unless the Senator has anything more to
say----
Senator Hatch. Let me just thank you, Bob, and I thank the
chairman here for allowing you to testify because I think it is
very important for this country to hear your story and to know
what you have been able to do, along with Earl here and others
who are here with you, and Scott Burns in particular. I have
inestimable respect for all of you.
Scott, you have to be very pleased that these folks have
traveled all the way back to support you. You and Alice have to
be pleased with that, and it says a lot about you that I know
this committee will take into consideration.
So thanks for being here and thanks for taking the time.
Mr. Flowers. It is an honor to be here, sir.
Senator Hatch. And thanks for what you did for the whole
world out there in Utah.
Mr. Flowers. Well, we are glad it went off well. It was
unraveling and we were a bit nervous for 13 days, and that roar
at the end was us; it was not the crowd at the closing
ceremonies. So thank you.
Senator Biden. Thank you.
Now, I would ask all of our nominees to come forward--Mary
Ann Solberg, Barry Crane, Scott Burns, and John Robert Flores.
I think, Mary Ann, they are seating you on my left here,
and then Dr. Crane, Mr. Burns, and Mr. Flores. We will proceed
in that order, but before we begin I would like you all to
remain standing while I swear you in.
Do you swear that the testimony you are about to give
before this committee will be the truth, the whole truth and
nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Ms. Solberg. I do.
Mr. Crane. I do.
Mr. Burns. I do.
Mr. Flores. I do.
Senator Biden. Please be seated.
I would invite you, Ms. Solberg, to begin with any opening
statement you may have, and then we will move to your left and
then will proceed with questioning. Welcome.
STATEMENT OF MARY ANN SOLBERG, NOMINEE TO BE DEPUTY DIRECTOR,
OFFICE OF NATIONAL DRUG CONTROL POLICY
Ms. Solberg. Thank you. Chairman Biden, Ranking Member
Hatch, and Senator Grassley, it is an honor to be here today to
be considered for the position of Deputy Director of the Office
of National Drug Control Policy.
I would like to take just a moment, if I may, to introduce
to all of you my daughter, Laura, who is sitting behind me, and
her friend, Kent Trowbridge. I would also like to introduce to
you, because they have traveled so far today, the president of
the Troy Community Coalition, Ida Edmunds, and the
Superintendent of the Troy School District, Dr. Jamet Jopke,
both instrumental in my program.
Senator Biden. Would you both please stand?
[Ms. Edmunds and Ms. Jopke stood.]
Senator Biden. Welcome.
Ms. Solberg. I have submitted a statement for the record
and I would like it to be included in full.
Senator Biden. It will be included.
Ms. Solberg. I will keep my remarks brief this morning.
I have for the past 11 years worked across the continuum of
substance abuse prevention, treatment, and interdiction. I have
worked at every level of government and I have worked with a
huge variety of sectors, including parents, police, the courts,
the faith community, and business.
I have taken Federal programs and I have translated them to
community outcomes, decreasing substance abuse, as is noted in
my statement, across multiple ages and multiple drugs. I
understand Federal programs, I understand community needs.
It is important that we continue the reduction in substance
abuse that we have witnessed recently. The President and
Congress care about this issue. You have provided the tools. I
have the experience and the ability to motivate and to involve
that vast volunteer cadre that really is necessary if we are
going to achieve the goals in the 2002 national drug control
strategy.
I look forward to working with Director Walters, with Dr.
Barthwell, and with my fellow nominees. Together, we have a
vast array of expertise, the expertise the American people
deserve. Together, as a team, I believe that we have a
wonderful chance of reducing substance in the United States.
I thank you.
[The prepared statement of Ms. Solberg follows:]
Testimony of Mary Ann Solberg, Nominee To Be Director of National Drug
Control Policy
Chairmen Leahy and Biden, Ranking Member Hatch, and distinguished
members of the Committee: It is an honor to appear before you today as
you consider my nomination for Deputy Director of National Drug Control
Policy.
Over the course of my career in the field of prevention, I have
observed how deeply the power of a movement lies in the will of the
people. Churchill understood that simple fact. So did Franklin
Roosevelt and Abraham Lincoln, Ronald Reagan and Martin Luther King. It
is a power that I have seen produce miracles, large and small, in
substance abuse prevention and reduction. It is the power of what each
of us, working together, can achieve. In my estimation, it is the power
that gives energy to the motto ``Prevention Works.'' Prevention DOES
work. Treatment works. Moreover, they work hand in hand with law
enforcement and interdiction efforts that are equally important in
controlling this scourge that threatens our youth, families and
communities.
Where there is community will and volunteer commitment and
experienced leadership to balance the professional contributions of law
enforcement and the federal government, the public health problem that
is substance abuse can, indeed, be controlled if not eradicated. The
effectiveness of community coalitions is one of the best-kept secrets
in the United States. I know--I am part of a highly successful
community coalition. The spirit of the Troy Community Coalition for the
Prevention of Drug and Alcohol Abuse grabbed me immediately and kept me
in its thrall for 11 years in a field where burnout is endemic.
We changed laws. We changed attitudes of youth related to drug use.
We increased the knowledge and capacity of local youths, adults, and
institutions to respond effectively to substance abuse issues. We
partnered with law enforcement and the courts, with business and
schools. We become an active player at several community leadership
tables. And today, we are seeing some effects on actual drug use:
marijuana use is declining, binge drinking is declining, middle school
tobacco use is declining, and age-of-onset of first use of tobacco is
increasing. We have affected not only knowledge and attitudes, but we
also have had a real effect on behavior. Moreover, when the news of our
success filtered to surrounding communities, they, too, were eager to
join in. The result is the Coalition of Healthy Communities, a
collaboration of seven substance abuse prevention coalitions
encompassing seventeen communities in southeast Oakland County,
Michigan.
The Troy program advanced rapidly because of the resources provided
by a seed grant from the Federal government, through SAMHSA's Center
for Substance Abuse Prevention. This job is too big for communities to
go it alone. They need guidance and support from their state and
federal government; they need the expertise and professionalism that
ONDCP and other Federal agencies such as CSAP and NIDA can offer. My
experience as a grant recipient will be invaluable as I work at ONDCP.
I understand the process but more importantly this first hand knowledge
will allow me to target real community needs as I work nationally to
achieve lasting reduction in drug abuse.
And the results must be evaluated. We have been fortunate in having
a university in our community that was willing to provide us evaluative
services from the outset. Documenting our progress was the credibility
factor the community required. In Troy we operate our community
coalition as a business, not just a prevention program. Our inspiration
comes as much from management Guru Peter Drucker as it does from
Professor Hawkins and Catalano, whose theory of risk factors in their
book the early 1990s ``Communities that Care'' so changed the landscape
of substance abuse prevention. That means targeting goals, setting up a
business plan, and marketing, marketing, marketing.
Only a few months after our formation, a community survey revealed
that nearly 60 percent of the community recognized our name and could
describe our mission. That's huge. Our volunteer pool is immense. The
secret? Letting people know how vital is their role as mentors and
coaches, engaged in skills training and finding community solutions to
such problems as alternative activities for kids. These are lessons
learned that will be invaluable in my work at ONDCP. If I have a single
mantra about substance abuse prevention it is this: multiple strategies
over multiple sectors. The comprehensive approach outlined by the
President is crystal clear: attacking this problem on multiple fronts
is the only route to success. This means stopping the drug dealers in
our cities and our rural communities. It means stopping the traffickers
who seek to make their millions off the souls of our children. It means
strengthening our families so that our youth have the resilience to say
``no.'' It means bolstering the job market so that adults won't turn to
drugs as an antidote for their failures. It means giving our police and
our courts the tools they need to deal with the problem when the other
strategies have failed. And it meansstripping substance abuse of its
glamour and mystique that attracts young people like a siren's song.
The ONDCP Media Campaign has been invaluable in this respect. Its
messages to parents are superb. The parenting aspects of the media
campaign have been incredibly helpful, as has been their work with the
Ad Council to promote coalitions, a campaign that has given coalitions
both national visibility and credibility. We know we can't do it all,
and we can't do it alone. We can't grab their attention--be it parents
or youth--as television does. However, if the media wasn't a player in
this campaign, the negative messages would prevail. It is vital we
maintain this relationship and explore every possible means of reaching
people. The media campaign has also taught us to talk to our kids and,
even more importantly, to listen. It is a strategy that has been part
of the foundation of the Troy Community Coalition since its inception.
We bring in the movers and the shakers of the community as well as
parents and clergy, law enforcement and health providers. Then we let
the young people talk, and we listen. We listen hard, and then take
action. The youth become our mentors, our coaches and our partners.
Another reason we have been successful in Troy is that we are
relentlessly inclusive. We try to have everyone at the table at all
times. We make special effort to involve groups who aren't used to
being part of the community as a whole. And once we get them to the
table, we keep them there. We have not lost a single member of the
coalition since its inception save those who have moved away. We
cultivate and nurture our community partners. We make sure our
volunteers are regularly recognized. We give back to our businesses and
schools and corporations. That inclusiveness is important for ONDCP as
well, as it seeks to involve all sectors in a balanced effort to stop
drugs: community activism, dedicated law enforcement and interdiction
efforts that go far beyond our borders.
Prevention alone won't solve this public health problem. Clearly we
need treatment for those already caught in the vicious cycle of drug
abuse, and we need to do everything in our power to stem the flow of
drugs into our communities. The same research that has alerted us to
the risk and protective factors that underlie drug use has shown us
that availability leads to early use. Make it harder for kids to get
drugs, and fewer of them will become users. We have to control access
with as much fervor as we mobilize communities. My commitment to
multiple strategies across multiple sectors is perfectly reflected in
the balanced approach that ONDCP espouses: the coordination of efforts
to eliminate or reduce drug trafficking through the High Intensity Drug
Trafficking Area (HIDTA) Program, the counterdrug enforcement research
and development efforts, the National Youth Anti-Drug Media Campaign,
and support of community efforts through the Drug-Free Communities
program. There's room for all strategies here: Prevention, Education,
Treatment and Interdiction. The four strike a balanced approach that
leads to lowered drug use.
Moreover, we need to continue to support the work being done at the
National Institutes of Health, specifically at the National Institute
on Drug Abuse, in the research arena. Knowing how drugs affect the
brain, both short and long term, is vital information to get out to the
community. Second to parents, it's one of the best antidotes I know. I
have had some experience in community-based treatment through the drug
court program. A drug court that was recently established in Troy
decided to take on some of the hard-core cases that some drug courts
shun. The results have been miraculous. Thereward/reinforcement
approach coupled with sound treatment clearly works. And this is a big
problem, bigger than many of us realize. As a coalition leader, the
most frequent question I get asked is about treatment, even though my
focus is prevention. It's a recurring question: ``I have a wife, a
daughter, a son, a grandparent with a problem. Where can I take them to
get help?'' We make our communities and our businesses and our insurers
understand how vital treatment is to achieving our goals of reducing
substance abuse. And we must continue to advocate relentlessly against
legalization, a step that I believe would cancel many of the gains we
have made in the past decade.
As deputy director of ONDCP, I would work tirelessly to mobilize
our communities and our national will to continue the campaign against
substance abuse, to end the tragic loss of life that it incurs and to
reverse the significant losses in productivity and earnings, estimated
in the billions, that serve as its collateral damage. We need to
tirelessly promote the reality that all organizations and agencies in
communities, all concerned citizens, and all local, state and federal
policy makers have an important role to play in ridding our country of
drugs.
Just as our leaders and our Congress has made clear that the war on
terrorism will be a complicated, drawn out process, so, too, is our
campaign against drug abuse. But for every community, every
neighborhood, every shop, every precinct, every school, every street
corner, and every family where substance abuse has left its mark, we
can collectively make a difference.
Thank you for this opportunity to testify and I look forward to
answering any questions the Committee may have.
[The biographical information of Ms. Solberg follows:]
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Senator Biden. Thank you very much.
I see Senator Warner has come in. We noted that he was
necessarily absent on Armed Services Committee business and we
have put his statements in the record regarding two nominees,
but we welcome him and invite any comment he would like to
make.
STATEMENT OF HON. JOHN WARNER, A U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF
VIRGINIA
Senator Warner. Mr. Chairman, I thank you very much.
Senator Allen introduced my statements.
Senator Biden. He did.
Senator Warner. I am simply here to observe for a brief
period, and I thank the Chair and I welcome our nominees who
are offering themselves to public service.
Senator Biden. Thank you very much, Senator.
Dr. Crane?
STATEMENT OF BARRY D. CRANE, NOMINEE TO BE DEPUTY DIRECTOR OF
SUPPLY REDUCTION, OFFICE OF NATIONAL DRUG CONTROL POLICY
Mr. Crane. Chairman Biden and Senator Hatch and
distinguished members of the committee, I really want to thank
you for having this hearing today and I want to thank the
President for the honor of nominating me. I especially want to
thank Senator Warner and Senator Allen for their introduction.
I want to acknowledge here today my wife, who has been with
me all these years in service to our country. She has supported
us in time of war when we were in Operation Homecoming. She
currently volunteers and teaches little children about how the
Bill of Rights came at Gunston Hall, so I want to acknowledge
her.
Senator Biden. Welcome.
Mr. Crane. I will keep my opening remarks brief and
respectfully request that the committee enter my entire written
statement.
Mr. Biden. Your entire statement will be placed in the
record.
Mr. Crane. My professional research since 1993 at the
Institute for Defense Analysis has reinforced my own personal
philosophy that our country needs a balanced drug control
policy. You have to have all of these things--prevention,
treatment, enforcement, international, and interdiction
activities.
Each drug control program has its own merits, but it will
be my job, if confirmed, to assist the director in developing
and implementing effective supply reduction policies. Effective
supply reduction not only will reduce the supply of illicit
drugs that enter our borders, but it will also disrupt the
profit margins of the drug traffickers. And these are
ordinarily used to expand markets, but most notably in this
time of war and terrorism, a lot of these funds have gone to
expand terrorism and really violent and evil things in our
world. So this will be an important job. I look at this as a
national security job as well as a drug control job.
My recent professional experience has been well-suited for
this post. I have provided support to the United States
interdiction coordinator, Admiral Loy, since 1994, and I have
made many recommendations over time on how to improve our
operations.
I have also supported the Department of Defense in its role
of detection of monitoring, and also we did reviews of the
internal demand control programs in the Department of Defense
to minimize drug problems within armed services personnel.
We also did a lot of research on the law enforcement
operations of the Coast Guard for the Office of Law
Enforcement. Our research developed an in-depth understanding
of how these illicit drug enterprises actually work, and it is
principally based on observations and recorded data.
Our empirical approaches have been tested and validated by
a number of independent data sources, and also many operations
spanning really decades of time. They have enabled our research
team to characterize and quantify the largest effects
attributable to individual and collective supply control
operations, and to formulate insightful, practical, and useful
drug trafficking deterrents. As you know, the hit-and-run
operations came really out of the research. We have to arrest
these people. It really increases operational performance, so
the specialized units for the Coast Guard came out of this. As
deputy director, I will aid the director and use these as a
basis for policy formation.
In conclusion, I am very grateful for this nomination and I
want to thank all the Senators for their great support over
this time. Thank you very much.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Crane follows:]
Statement of Barry D. Crane, Nominee To Be Deputy Director for Supply
Reduction, Office of National Drug Control Policy
Chairmen Leahy and Biden, Ranking Member Hatch, and distinguished
Members of the Committee: I want to thank the President for the honor
of nominating me to the Office of the Deputy Director for Supply
Reduction, Office of National Drug Control Policy, and I am grateful to
the Committee on the Judiciary for considering my nomination.
My professional research since 1993 at the Institute for Defense
Analyses \1\ has reinforced my personal philosophy that our country
needs a balanced drug control policy, encompassing a wide array of
prevention, treatment, domestic enforcement, and international, and
interdiction activities. Each drug control program has its own merits
and it will be my job, if confirmed, to assist the Director in
developing and implementing an effective supply reduction policy that
complements the many positive contributions of demand reduction.
Effective supply reduction not only will reduce the supply of illicit
drugs that enter our borders, but it will also disrupt the profit
margins of drug traffickers--ordinarily used to expand markets and to
finance other illegal activities, including, most notably, terrorism.
In this time of war, my initial focus as Deputy Director for Supply
Reduction will be the connection of drug markets to the financing of
terrorist organizations.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
\1\ Page VI-2, Empirical Examination of Counterdrug Interdiction
Program Effectiveness, Jan 1997.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
My recent professional experience is well suited for my nominated
post. I aided the U.S. Interdiction Coordinator in analyzing the
effectiveness of interdiction operations and developing recommendations
for improvements in these operations. I supported the Department of
Defense in evaluating the effectiveness of DoD's detection and
monitoring mission and DoD's internal demand control programs.\2\ My
research team provided numerous detailed technical assessments for the
Joint Interagency Task Force East of the U.S. Southern Command. Also,
my research team analyzed the effectiveness of law enforcement
operations for the Office of Law Enforcement, United States Coast
Guard, and for country attaches of the Drug Enforcement Administration.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
\2\ Our demand research was used to understand how the military
dramatically reduced its drug abuse problem to levels far below the
general population.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Our research has developed an in-depth understanding of how illicit
drug enterprises actually work, and our research is principally based
upon observations and recorded data rather than academic theories.\3\
Our empirical approaches have been tested on and validated by
independent data sources, some spanning decades of events. They have
enabled our research team to characterize and quantify the largest
effects attributable to individual and collective supply control
operations, and to formulate insightful and practically useful drug
trafficking deterrence models. Our research has been used to improve
supply control operations. As Deputy Director for Supply Reduction, I
will continue use an empirically-based approach to guide our policy
formulation.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
\3\ Most previous research adhered to a priori academic research
that has had limited practical success in explaining actual data and
observed behaviors. For example, the simultaneous dramatic drop in both
cocaine price and usage in the early 1980's has not been explained.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
In conclusion, I am grateful for the nomination of Deputy Director
for Supply Reduction, I look forward to serving my country in that
capacity, and I am ready for the hard work and the many challenges that
lay ahead.
[The biographical information of Mr. Crane follows:]
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Senator Hatch [presiding]. Well, thank you, Dr. Crane.
Senator Biden had to take a phone. So, Scott Burns, we will
now take your testimony.
STATEMENT OF SCOTT BURNS, NOMINEE TO BE DEPUTY DIRECTOR FOR
STATE AND LOCAL AFFAIRS, OFFICE OF NATIONAL DRUG CONTROL POLICY
Mr. Burns. Thank you. Ranking Member Hatch, Senator
Grassley, Senator Warner, I will keep my statement brief, as
the others, hopefully under two minutes, and I respectfully
request that the committee enter my written statement for the
record.
Senator Hatch. Without objection, we will do exactly that.
Mr. Burns. I am honored to appear before you today as the
nominee for Deputy Director of State and Local Affairs of the
Office of National Drug Control Policy. I want to express my
sincere appreciation to you, Senator Hatch, for your kind
remarks, to Senator Bennett, and for your willingness to bring
Public Safety Commissioner Flowers out here from Utah, not only
I know to honor him, but that he would be willing to come out
here on my behalf. I thank you sincerely.
Senator Hatch. Thank you. We are grateful to him as well.
Mr. Burns. As a prosecuting attorney, over the past 15
years I have seen firsthand the devastating effects of illicit
drug use in this country. I have observed the smuggling and the
distribution and the use of marijuana that has risen and fallen
over the years, depending on the market.
I was there for the initial popularity and no harm done by
using cocaine, and therefore the devastation of that drug that
we all learned about; the proliferation of methamphetamine that
is moving from the East Coast to the West Coast, and dealing
with methamphetamine labs and clean-ups, but more, I guess, the
clean-up of the hearts and the souls and minds of those that
become addicted.
I have been there for the latest craze of GHB and club
drugs. And, Senator Hatch, I thank you for your field hearings
that you held in Utah addressing that when that issue first
became known across the country.
I know, like each of you, that I think the men and women
across this country who investigate and prosecute drug crimes
are committed to reducing drug use and addiction, reducing the
ancillary crimes associated with that problem. And I believe
that thousands of Americans, men and women, get up every day
and do their very best to deal with this insidious problem.
Over the past 15 years, I have had the opportunity to work
with drug counselors, county commissioners, city council
persons, prosecutors, police chiefs, task force members,
rehabilitation program directors, and I have been involved in
the prosecution of nearly every illicit drug available to our
citizens.
As such, I have worked in the trenches, Senators, to try
and make a difference with respect to these problems. And if
fortunate enough to be confirmed, I hope to bring the message
from the trenches, from State and local people, to you, and I
hope to take your message back to State and local governments
and elected and appointed officials across this country.
I thank you for the opportunity to testify. I look forward
to answering any questions the committee may have.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Burns follows:]
Testimony of Scott Burns, Nominee To Be Duputy Director for State and
Local Affairs of National Drug Control Policy
Chairman Leahy and Biden, Ranking Member Hatch, and distinguished
members of the Committee: I am honored to appear before you today as
you consider my nomination for Deputy Director for State and Local
Affairs of National Drug Control Policy. First and foremost, I want to
express my sincere appreciation to each member of the Committee for the
advice, encouragement, and counsel I have received during the
nomination process.
As a prosecuting attorney for the past fifteen years, I have seen
firsthand the devastating effects of illicit drug use in this country.
I have observed the smuggling, distribution, and illegal use of
marijuana; the rise in popularity and consequent devastation of
cocaine; the proliferation of methamphetamine laboratories and
methamphetamine abuse that is sweeping across the country from the west
coast to the east coast; the latest craze of GHB, Ecstasy, and other
so-called ``club drugs;'' and the daily tragedies associated with
prescription abuse that knows no cultural or socioeconomic boundaries.
Like each of you, I believe that the women and men who investigate and
prosecute drug offenses across this country are committed to reducing
drug use and addiction, and in doing so, reducing ancillary crimes that
are often inherent to that human condition. I also believe that, while
we can do better, thousands of Americans are working hard every day in
substance abuse treatment programs and prevention centers to assist our
citizens dealing with drug use. In particular, I believe that all of us
have made, and should make, special effort to address drug use among
our children.
As I have heard many of you state publicly, I do not believe that
our common goal of reducing drug use, especially among our youth, is a
Republican, Democratic, or an Independent problem. I believe these
issues are a national problem. In preparing for this hearing, I have
had the opportunity to examine some of the issues that each of you are
dealing with in your respected states and, as such, I am struck more by
the commonality than the differences. However, the manner and methods
by which we address these complex issues is the subject of much debate.
I have always believed that our first goal must be prevention, followed
by efforts to assist those who have become addicted to illegal drugs
through counseling and treatment. The criminal justice system should
always be the last resort. I also believe that we must concentrate
prevention efforts on our youth as virtually every study available
suggests that the sooner we intervene, educate, and assist, the greater
the likelihood for success. With the foregoing in mind, I also believe
that the criminal justice system plays an important role in the
national drug control policy and we must use every tool available to
reduce the demand for illicit drugs, limit the supply, and treat those
that are struggling every day with addiction.
Over the past fifteen years, I have had the opportunity to work
with the drug counselors, county commissioners, city councilpersons,
prosecutors, police chiefs, sheriffs, alternative youth rehabilitation
program directors, and drug task force members. I have been involved in
the prosecution of nearly every illicit drug available to our citizens
(methamphetamine, cocaine, LSD, heroin, marijuana, prescription fraud
and abuse, and rave or club drugs). As such, I have worked with
prosecutors from across the country, and if fortunate enough to be
confirmed, I hope to bring the perspective of one ``in the trenches''
to the Office of National Drug Control Policy. Equally as important, I
hope to deliver your message, and the message of the President, as
relating to national drug control policy, to state and local officials
across our great nation. I will work with my friend, Eugena Loggins,
who is the District Attorney in Andalusia, Alabama, with respect to the
horrors of methamphetamine that will soon reach her jurisdiction. I
will work with my colleagues, Terry L. White, Chief-Deputy-in-Charge
for the Los Angeles District Attorney's Office, Tom Sneddon, Santa
Barbara District Attorney, and Robert Morgenthau, the District Attorney
of New York City, to find better ways wherein the Congress, Office of
National Drug Control Policy, and other departments and agencies can
assist in their efforts, in the real world, to deal with the horror of
illegal drugs and attendant crimes. I will work with Mike Rogers, an
Assistant States Attorney for Cook County in Chicago; I will work with
Ann Gardner, Senior Assistant Commonwealth Attorney in Roanoke,
Virginia; I will make every effort to assist Mark Larson, Chief Deputy
of the Prosecutor's Office in Seattle, Washington, as well as Lynette
Reda, the Assistant D.A. in Buffalo, New York. I will strive, humbly,
to ``speak their language'' in bridging whatever gaps there may be on
the national, state, and local level in an effort to help all of us
reach our common goal as relating to illicit drug use. I pledge to
continue to work on drug issues with Michael McCann, the District
Attorney of Milwaukee County, Wisconsin, and I will coordinate closely
with Tom Charron, the Director of Education at the National District
Attorney's Association, to make certain that those entrusted with
prosecuting drug offenses do so in a professional and fair manner. I
will also reach out to the attorney generals, sheriffs, police chiefs,
federal law enforcement agencies, community leaders, and prevention and
treatment professionals, on behalf of the Office of National Drug
Control Policy, to make certain that supply reduction, treatment, and
education are balanced and to ensure that tax dollars are being spent
prudently.
Mr. Chairman, I am well aware of the great strides that you and the
distinguished members of this Committee have made over the years in
reducing the demand for, and supply of, illegal drugs. I am also aware
that thousands of good women and men go to work each day in an effort
to prevent illegal use and distribution of harmful drugs, and they are
doing a good job. If fortunate enough to be confirmed, I will dedicate
myself to build on those successes by coordinating the national drug
control policy with state and local officials nationwide.
Thank you for this opportunity to testify, and I look forward to
answering any questions the Committee may have.
[The biographical information of Mr. Burns follows:]
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Senator Hatch. Well, thank you, Scott. We know that you
mean business, we know that you have been there, and we know
you understand these problems. We also know that you understand
the importance of helping people who have these problems. So I
expect you to be one of the greatest people we have ever had in
this area, and I have no doubt you will be.
Mr. Flores, we have a lot of respect for you as well, as
you know. We appreciate the work that you have done through the
years, so we will turn to you at this time.
STATEMENT OF J. ROBERT FLORES, NOMINEE TO BE ADMINISTRATOR,
OFFICE OF JUVENILE JUSTICE AND DELINQUENCY PREVENTION, U.S.
DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE
Mr. Flores. Thank you very much. Mr. Chairman, members of
the committee, it is an honor to appear before this committee
as President Bush's nominee for the position of the
Administrator of the Office of Juvenile Justice and Delinquency
Prevention. I am deeply grateful for the confidence and trust
that the President and the Attorney General have placed in me,
and I can assure you I will work hard to justify their trust.
Before I begin, with your indulgence I would like to
introduce my family. They are here with me today and it is an
important day for my family, not just for me. They have helped
me to get where I am--my wife, Ingrid; my son, Robert; my
daughters, Catherine and Clare; and my mother, Abigail.
Senator Hatch. We welcome all of you here. These kids are
pretty impressive. I am starting to worry about my
grandchildren. [Laughter.]
Senator Hatch. It is great to have you all here and we are
very proud that you are with us and that your husband is being
tapped for this important position.
Mr. Flores. Thank you, Senator.
As a parent, a prosecutor, and child advocate, I am sadly
all too familiar with many of the challenges facing children
today in their efforts to avoid temptation that if they are not
successful in resisting will lead to broken lives.
As you have heard from my colleagues here who are up before
the committee today, the availability of drugs, a culture that
urges immediate gratification, and an acceptance of violence as
a means of resolving conflict make it increasingly difficult to
choose right over wrong. As if this were not enough, the
institution of the family faces continued attack, making it
difficult for parents to care for their own children, not to
mention keeping an eye out for those of their neighbors.
Because of this, I believe that the challenges and work
that belong to the Office of Juvenile Justice and Delinquency
Prevention are among the most important and critical facing
Government. The President's goal of leaving no child being
must, I believe, include those children and youth that are in
the juvenile justice system or at risk of entering that system.
Should the Senate confirm me, I pledge to work hard on their
behalf.
At first glance, my career has been focused primarily on
prosecution. So the question might be asked, why now focus on
juvenile justice? I can't put it any more simply than the way I
answered the question when my son asked me: because I want to
help children.
I believe that my background has made me especially
sensitive to what is at stake when we don't reach children at
any early age, protect them from violence and abuse, and assist
their parents, their caretakers and community in building them
up. I am aware that failure to achieve those goals is
registered not just in statistics, but in broken lives that
often turn to crime or are trapped in a life of violence that
has severe repercussions.
Because I have looked into the faces of children who have
vented the anger in their lives through crime and violence
because they have been neglected, abandoned, victimized
sexually, mistreated in countless ways and made to feel as if
they were invisible, I believe that any successful law
enforcement effort must have as its primary goals the
transformation of lives, the prevention of crime, together with
the effective enforcement of law.
These goals require that we focus not only on punishment
for actions that are wrong, but prevention by teaching what is
right, encouraging and modeling that behavior, and investing
resources in their lives and those of their families.
There are a number of programs at the Office of Juvenile
Justice that are already underway and that I believe will help
pave the way to transforming lives. They require financial
resources, yes, but they also require an intimate and personal
investment, and investment of one's time, talent, and personal
treasure into the lives of children.
After all, there is not a single person in this room who
can claim to have made it all by themselves. I know that I have
enjoyed the support, encouragement, counsel, discipline, and
material gifts of many, from those of my parents, family, and
friends, teachers, church leaders, and professional colleagues.
The programs that OJJDP has that include mentoring, focus
on community involvement, and effective intervention and
partnering so that the difficult work of getting and staying on
track need not happen alone must receive special attention. I
do believe in requiring individual responsibility and personal
hard work, but support from others as they are able must be
part of any equation that has public safety and care of
children as its result.
I look forward to working with the staff at the Office of
Juvenile Justice. I spent eight years working in the Justice
Department with colleagues. Some of the folks at OJJDP I worked
with then, and I look forward to doing that now. I know that
there is no shortage of commitment on their part.
Before concluding my statement, I want to share a personal
story that I hope will shed some light on myperspective as it
pertains to two important issues that the Office of Juvenile Justice
has to be committed to address. They are disproportionate minority
confinement and school violence.
I grew up in a middle-class neighborhood, in a home where
my parents thought nothing of personal sacrifice for their
children. While we were not wealthy, my brother and I lacked
for nothing that was truly important. My parents were
everywhere, and as quaint as it might seem to some, they were
always my greatest supporters and cheerleaders. One day in
fifth grade, however, I came face to face with something that I
had never before confronted.
I was the only Puerto Rican kid in my school and had been
since we moved into that community for a couple of years, but I
encountered my first ethnic slur and that word had amazing
power for an 11-year-old. That word, brought home from college
by the older brother of a school friend, really made a
difference to me.
My schoolmate thought it might be fun to try it out on me
and he did. I didn't understand the full ramifications of that
word or its meaning, but I knew that the children's refrain
that ``words can never hurt me'' was horribly wrong. In one
fell swoop, I became embarrassed about my heritage and I did
not have the skills to deal with it.
I retreated into my family. I didn't want to go back to
school. In fact, I remember wanting to see no one, but what
happened next made all of the difference. Neighbors came
forward to support me. They provided a caring and protective
environment that helped my parents put the incident into
perspective for me. Knowing I wasn't alone, I went back to
school. As my presence here testifies, God has blessed me and I
have enjoyed a great deal of success and the support of many
people. While that episode has past, I have never forgotten it.
I share this with you because I want you to have confidence
that I will be sensitive to these issues. Racism, bigotry, and
bullying are not limited to the playground. If it influences
sentencing confinement decisions, makes true reentry into the
community impossible, threatens the creation of a safe learning
environment, or facilitates or contributes to domestic
violence, it will be a priority for me. Such influences have no
place in any system of justice, and it offends me deeply not
just because of my heritage, but because it is offensive to any
prosecutor who has spent his career doing justice.
I want to thank the committee for the opportunity to appear
today. I want to thank Senator Hatch and Senator Grassley for
their support, and for Senator Warner's statement this morning
and for Senator Allen's as well. I look forward to taking any
questions that you might have.
Thank you very much.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Flores follows:]
Statement of J. Robert Flores, Nominee To Be Administrator of the
Office of Juvenile Justice and Delinquency Prevention
Mr. Chairman and Members of the Committee: It is an honor to appear
before this Committee as President Bush's nominee for the position of
Administrator of the Office of Juvenile Justice and Delinquency
Prevention. I am deeply grateful for the confidence and trust that the
President and the Attorney General have placed in me and I will work
hard to justify their trust.
As a parent, prosecutor, and child advocate, I am sadly, all too
familiar with many of the challenges facing today's children and youth
to avoid temptations that will lead to broken lives. The easy
availability of drugs and alcohol, a culture that urges immediate
gratification, and an acceptance of violence as a means of resolving
conflict make it increasingly difficult to choose the right over wrong.
As if this were not enough, the institution of the family faces
continued attack making it difficult for parents to care for their own
children, not to mention keeping an eye out for those of their
neighbors. Because of this, I believe that the challenges and work that
belong to OJJDP are among the most important and critical facing
government. The President's Goal of leaving no child behind, must, I
believe, also include those children and youth that are in the juvenile
justice system or at risk of entering that system. Should the Senate
confirm me, I pledge to work hard on their behalf.
At first glance, my career has been one focused primarily on
prosecution. So the question might be asked, why now a focus on
juvenile justice? Simply put, because I want to help children. I
believe that my background has made me especially sensitive to what is
at stake when we don't reach children at an early age, protect them
from violence and abuse, and assist their parents, caretakers, and
community in building them up. I am aware that failure to achieve those
goals is registered not only in statistics, but in broken lives that
often turn to crime or are trapped in a life of violence that has
severe repercussions. Because I have seen the faces of children who
have the anger in their lives through crime and violence because they
have been neglected and abandoned, victimized sexually, mistreated in
countless ways, and made to feel as if they were all but invisible, I
believe that any successful law enforcement effort must have as its
primary goals, the transformation of lives, the prevention of crime,
together with the effective enforcement of law. And these goals require
that we focus not only on punishment for actions that are wrong, but
prevention by teaching what is right, encouraging and modeling that
behavior, and investing resources in their lives and those of their
families.
There are a number of programs and efforts already underway that I
believe will pave the way to transforming lives. Yes, they require
financial resources but they also require an intimate and personal
investment. An investment of one's time, talent, and personal treasure
into the life of children. After all, there is not a single person in
this room that can claim to have made it all by themselves. I know that
I have enjoyed the support, encouragement, counsel, discipline, and
material gifts of many, from those of my parents and family to friends,
teachers, church leaders, and professional colleagues. Programs that
include mentoring, community involvement, and effective intervention
and partnering so that the difficult work of getting or staying on
track need not happen alone must receive special attention. I believe
in requiring individual responsibility and personal hard work, but
support from others as they are able must be part of any equation that
has public safety and care for children as its result.
As a career official in the Justice Department, I had the
opportunity to work with dedicated and talented colleagues, not only in
the Criminal Division, but at OJJDP as well. I look forward with great
expectation to working with the staff at OJJDP, some of whom I have had
an opportunity to work with in the past, and all of whom I know are
personally committed to improving on the work of the past.
Before concluding my statement, I want to share a personal story
that I hope will shed some light on my perspective as it pertains to
two important issues that the Office of Juvenile Justice and
Delinquency Prevention must be committed to addressing, they are
disproportionate minority confinement and school violence.
I grew up in a middle class neighborhood, in a home where my
parents thought nothing of personal sacrifice for their children. While
we were not wealthy, my brother and I lacked for nothing that was truly
important. My parents were everywhere, and as quaint as it might seem
to some, were always my greatest supporters and cheerleaders. One day
in fifth grade, however, I came face to face with something that I had
never before confronted even though I was the only Puerto Rican kid in
my school and had been since we moved into that community. I
encountered my first ethnic slur and that word had amazing power for an
11 year old. This word was brought home from college by the older
brother of a school friend. My schoolmate thought it might be fun to
try it out on me and he did. I didn't fully understand the word or its
meaning, but I knew then that the children's refrain that ``word's can
never hurt me,'' was horribly wrong. In one fell swoop, I became
embarrassed by my heritage and I did not have the skills to deal with
it. I retreated into my family. I did not want to go back to school. In
fact, I remember wanting to see or hear from no one. What happened next
made all the difference in the world. Neighbors came forward to support
me. They provided a caring and protective environment, that helped in
allowing my parents to put the incident into perspective for me.
Knowing I was not alone, I went back to school. And as my presence here
testifies, God has indeed blessed me and I have enjoyed a great deal of
success and the support of many. While that episode passed, I have
never forgotten.
I share this with you because I want you to have confidence that I
will be sensitive to these issues. Racism, bigotry, bullying, are not
limited to the playground. If it influences sentencing or confinement
decisions, makes true re-entry into the community impossible, threatens
the creationof a safe learning environment, or facilitates or
contributes to domestic violence it will be a priority for me. Such
influences have no place in any justice system and offends me deeply
not only because of my heritage but because it is offensive to any
prosecutor who has devoted his career to doing justice.
If confirmed, the opportunity to serve as Administrator holds great
excitement for me as I believe that it is always better to prevent
crime than to punish it. As a prosecutor, I sometimes got the feeling
that I was playing that arcade game, Wack-a-mole, where you keep
pounding the mole every time he pops up, yet you know you can't get
them all and that they will continue to pop up. Worse, the prosecutor,
perhaps better than anyone else, knows that you can't fully restore
what has been taken in the crime, the innocence of a victim, his honor,
the feeling of safety, or the time lost with loved ones. I see this as
an opportunity to focus on the problem at a time when much and many can
be saved.
Finally, I believe that the goal of preventing juvenile delinquency
and assuring that those in the system find justice is everyone's
concern. It is not a partisan issue because it touches something too
precious to us all, our Nation's children. I look forward to working
with this Committee if confirmed. Thank you, Mr. Chairman for the
opportunity to appear before you today.
[The biographical information of Mr. Flores follows:]
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Senator Hatch. Thank you, Mr. Flores. We are honored to
have all of you.
Ms. Solberg, you come highly recommended. I think the two
Senators and Congressman Levin really said it all about you and
we are really pleased that you are willing to come here and
work in this area and help us.
Dr. Crane, we know all about you. We think you are great.
Of course, I know Scott Burns very, very well. He is one of
my dearest friends, he and his wife Alice, and I just know what
you have done out there in Utah.
Mr. Flores, we have watched you around here for a long
time, so we have a lot of respect for you.
Senator Biden [presiding]. Why don't you go ahead and start
questioning? I apologize for having to be absent.
Seantor Hatch. Well, let me just ask you a question, Scott.
You know all too well how destructive methamphetamine has been
to our home State of Utah and to other areas of the country.
You have prosecuted drug traffickers and manufacturers. You
have worked hand in hand with Federal, State, and local law
enforcement officials to make communities safe and more secure.
I am very proud of the work you have done in Utah and I am
convinced that you will do a great job at ONDCP.
I understand that in 1987, you formed the Southern Utah
Task Force, Utah's first narcotics task force. This task force
brought police chiefs, sheriffs, Highway Patrol, DEA, FBI and
INS together specifically to address the issue of narcotics.
Today, the task force, known as the Iron-Garfield Narcotics
Task Force, continues to combat drug manufacturing and
trafficking in southern Utah. I also understand that this task
force was used as a model for other successful narcotics task
forces that are operating all over Utah, so I applaud you for
your foresight and your ingenuity in this.
How will you apply the knowledge that you have gained in
these experiences in Utah from operating this task force to
your new role as head of State and local affairs?
Mr. Burns. Senator, thank you for your kind comments. I
would like to take credit for all of that, but it was people
like Bob Flowers, behind me, who was with the State Police.
What I walked into was sheriffs that hated police chiefs,
police chiefs that thought the DEA should be in Washington, and
FBI agents who knew more than all of us, and trying to combat
in a rural setting cartels in Colombia and Mexico that were
highly sophisticated, got along well, and frankly were beating
us up.
I think the key in our jurisdiction, and maybe that can be
applied across the country, is simply understanding what each
of the players needs in order to get along and to work together
in the best interests of our citizens, whether it is a sheriff
that is up for election that needs a couple more lines in a
press release, whether it is a police chief that needs a letter
to the mayor, whether it is a DEA agent that needs a pat on the
back.
I think people are people everywhere on a State basis, on a
local basis, on a national Federal basis, and I think it is
people skills and trying to educate everybody that we all need
to play well together, and that was the basis for our success.
Senator Hatch. Thank you. As Deputy Director for State and
Local Affairs, you will be working closely with Federal, State
and local law enforcement officials who work together as part
of the High-Intensity Drug Trafficking Area program, better
known as HIDTA, to combat drug trafficking, among other things.
This program has grown dramatically over the past few
years, and while it has facilitated the formation of very
successful cooperative efforts, HIDTA has also been criticized
for becoming too bureaucratic. The success of each HIDTA is to
a large extent dependent upon the ability of various State,
Federal and local law enforcement officials from various States
to get along and to trust one another.
You have seen how the Rocky mountain HIDTA operates and you
have worked with all of its officers. So my question is, based
on your experience, what do you think can be done to ensure
that HIDTAs don't become consumed with bureaucratic
machinations and how will you personally prevent differences
from obstructing the focus of individual HIDTAs?
Mr. Burns. Well, if fortunate enough to be confirmed,
Senator, I think I would propose looking at each of the HIDTAs
top to bottom. I have always believed that the most efficacious
law enforcement is getting the money where it will do the best,
to officers on the street, to the real-world people dealing
with this issue day in and day out.
I would hope to look at each of those HIDTAs on an
individual basis and determine whether or not they are turning
into bureaucracies or doing what they were intended to do, and
that is bring together a conjoined effort of State and local
and Federal officials to deal with this problem.
Senator Hatch. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Senator Biden. Thank you very much.
I have a number of questions for each of you. I will take a
second round to do that, but let me start with you, Ms.
Solberg. I should state at the outset that having been the
fellow who authored the so-called drug czar legislation, when I
got here 100 years ago in 1972 as a 29-year-old kid, I swore
that I was not going to commit the sin of all senior Senators,
and that is become enamored with my own legislation, get to the
point where something that I worked on very, very hard to get
passed--a Democratic President didn't want any part in hearing
about national drug director's idea for the same reason, Scott,
that you indicated.
I thought you phrased it very well. Sheriffs didn't like
local chiefs. The local chiefs thought DEA should stay in
Washington, and DEA at that time was being gobbled up by the
FBI, and so on and so forth. If you think that was a problem,
it was a real problem getting a total of 36 Government agencies
to agree that there should be one person in charge.
So I apologize ahead of time and acknowledge ahead of time
that I have a bit of a parental attitude toward this office. I
think it has great potential. I think it has occasionally risen
to the task and sometimes has not.
Ms. Solberg, there are two pieces to it when I wrote it
that were envisioned at the time. It wasn't merely enforcement.
It was that there be a significant portion of it relating to
prevention and treatment, because we had up to that time not
very much looked at it from a Federal level as either a Federal
responsibility or in any holistic way, that there is a
combination.
Scott indicated in his--excuse me for calling you
``Scott.''
Mr. Burns. No. I like that.
Senator Biden. Those introducing him indicate that he has
used--I believe the commissioner indicated he has used drug
courts and other vehicles beyond merely the traditional law
enforcement tools. I say proudly that was in the so-called
Biden crime bill that we put those drug courts in, greatly
resisted. Now, we are approaching over 1,000 of them
nationwide, 688 or thereabouts, and I find them to be one of
the single best programs in my State; now, juvenile drug courts
as well, over 450 on the drawing board.
So, again, the notion of not only identifying what we
should be focusing on and having a coordinated effort so that
no longer would the Coast Guard purge their computers of
suspects so that the Customs people couldn't get a hold of them
and get credit for the collars--I know that sounds bizarre now,
but that what was happening.
We are now beginning in earnest to turn toward prevention.
For the longest time here, we had the debate that prevention
doesn't work under any circumstances, and it is an
understandable concern people have. I don't know any of the
people sitting in the audience--I bet there is not a single
person out there who is an adult who can't either name a son,
daughter, husband, wife, cousin, in-law, neighbor or fellow
worker who has a son, daughter, husband, wife who has not
encountered drugs and has not in many cases encountered the
need for help.
We have nationwide only 11.4 percent of the 12- to 17-year-
olds who need treatment have received it. Nationwide, those
between the ages of 18 and 25, only 8.6 percent who need
treatment have received it, in part because it is very
expensive. This is very expensive stuff, and we have learned a
lot that says these 5-day, 1-week, 30-day treatment facilities
are not of much value, particularly when we are talking about
heroin and cocaine and other drugs.
So I am using, I realize, most of my five minutes here in
an opening because I am going to come back and question you
all, but I want to talk to you all about the relationship
between interdiction and prevention and the need for
coordination.
Mr. Flores, on a separate but not unrelated area, you are
about to head up what I again, along with Senator Hatch--I
think he and I have probably worked longer than any two people
in the Senate consistently on this. My mother, God love her, is
85 years old and she says a phrase from her generation, I
think. She says a woman's ultimate revenge is living long and
thin. That is my 85-year-old mother whosays that.
Well, I think a public official's ultimate revenge is
remaining in office long. Well, that is a qualification that
all three of us have met, but particularly the Senator from
Utah and I, and we have worked very hard in the area of
juvenile justice. I have a number of questions for you about
how you think it should be functioning differently, if it
should be, than it is now.
With that, why don't I yield now to Senator Grassley, and
having forewarned you all I will come back to talk to you about
those subjects.
Senator Grassley. Mr. Flores, congratulations. I enjoyed
working with you on child prosecution legislation that we had
up. Years ago, when you were a much younger lawyer, it is my
understanding you were involved in the coalition of people that
helped us federalize the Ferber Act.
Mr. Flores. Thank you very much, Senator, for your work in
this area.
Senator Grassley. Ms. Solberg, do you currently hold a
security clearance?
Ms. Solberg. I do not know that. I have completed my FBI
work and I believe, if I am confirmed, that that will be
forthcoming.
Senator Grassley. Okay, so you don't have one now. Do you
know if there is one in the works for you to get a security
clearance?
Ms. Solberg. I don't know that, Senator.
Senator Grassley. That is okay. Now, you have been
nominated to fill the post of deputy in a Cabinet-level agency.
This would be similar to Deputy Secretary of Agriculture or
Deputy Attorney General.
When you interviewed for the post of deputy director, did
anyone at that time indicate to you that the post involved
these over-arching responsibilities?
Ms. Solberg. No, they did not.
Senator Grassley. At the time of your nomination or at any
point thereafter, did you indicate that for personal reasons
you intended to spend only part of the work week in Washington?
And while answering that question, would you please detail what
the administration agreed to and specifics about your work
schedule and the location of your duties?
Ms. Solberg. I agreed when I was asked to accept this
nomination to put in a 40-hour-plus week, in other words full-
time, in Washington. I asked for an alternative work schedule,
when necessary, because I am an only child of parents who are
86 and 90. I felt that their care was prevention at its very
best, and my family is vital to me.
I asked for that alternative work schedule, saying that,
first of all, I would put a minimum of 40 hours in Washington,
probably more, and also that I was totally wired at home with
fax, computer, and everything necessary. And although I might
be in a different area, I would be one hundred percent
available on those days when I would be required to be in
Michigan to care for my family.
Senator Grassley. And the administration agreed to that?
Ms. Solberg. I was nominated, Senator.
Senator Grassley. Mr. Chairman, I have no further
questions.
Senator Biden. Thank you very much.
Senator Hatch?
Senator Hatch. I am going to rely on you, Mr. Chairman, to
ask the questions. I will just be happy to have you take over.
Let me just say this: I have been on this committee ever
since I have been in Congress and there is nobody in the whole
Congress who has done more in these areas than Senator Biden. I
don't mean to embarrass him, but I----
Senator Grassley. He is difficult to live with. You are
making it more difficult. [Laughter.]
Senator Hatch. Well, I didn't comment on that. I agree with
that.
Senator Biden. Well, thank you very much, Senator.
Senator Hatch. But I have to say that he does work very
hard in this area. He himself has had experience before he came
to the Senate in these areas and he takes it very seriously. I
think he is going to, as I know I will, appreciate the work
that the four of you will be doing. But I would just as soon
have Senator Biden ask the questions.
Senator Biden. Thank you very much.
Ms. Solberg, let me begin with you. During your tenure as
head of the Troy coalition, you have had great success in
reducing the use among kids in your community of marijuana. It
seems to me that if we want to achieve the President's goal of
reducing drug use by 25 percent over the next 5 years, we have
to replicate the kinds of things you have done in your
community throughout the country.
What kinds of programs would you like to see developed
across this country to prevent drug use in the first place? Do
you have any ideas along those lines?
Ms. Solberg. Well, Senator, I believe that substance abuse
starts in the local community and that the answer lies first
and foremost in the community. It is by conducting multiple
strategies over every sector of the community that we change
behavior.
I have always believed that you can't change youth behavior
until you first address adult behavior, and sooften prevention
programs have only targeted young people. We need to change
communities, we need to change attitudes, we need to change behavior.
Senator Biden. How do you do that, Mary Ann? Give me an
example.
Since I am chairman of the Foreign Relations Committee, I
always joke that the people that drive me the craziest are the
State Department nominees because they speak State Department-
eze, which means they don't speak English, they don't speak the
American language.
One of the things I would like to know, if you can, and you
may not be able to--these are tough questions--if you can be
specific, give me anecdotal kinds of evidence as to how do
you--for example, I fully concur that you have to get adults
involved. We always think we just start with the kids.
When I do the DARE programs, I make sure I have all the
parents show up of the students because just educating the
parents on things to look for--I mean, they see a pacifier on
the kid's end table when the kid is 13 years old and they
should realize that kid is using Ecstasy. They wonder what the
pacifier and the little lanyard around the neck is all about,
so we don't educate parents very well.
We went through a period where when you were working on the
reduction of marijuana, you would have parents of my
generation, the so-called baby-boom generation, many of whom
experimented with marijuana, who would say, well, at least my
kid is not using cocaine. It was not okay, but it was, you
know, gee, I am thankful that that is the case, or at least
they are just drinking and they are not using drugs.
In fact, as you well know, the marijuana that--I used to
say that the marijuana that we have been dealing with the last
10 years--it is like it ain't your father's Oldsmobile; this is
a very, very different marijuana. It is over 10 times as
potent. Its effect on brain cells and long-term impacts are
significantly greater than any marijuana that somebody smoked
at Woodstock in the late 1960s.
So I understand generically that you have got to get
parents or adults more informed, but what do you mean by
getting them involved? Give me an example.
Ms. Solberg. Well, I will give you a great example of
parenting. It is very difficult to educate parents. School
districts have training and only the best parents show up, so
we use multiple strategies. We go into the workplace and make
sure that there are paycheck stuffers that give the signs and
symptoms of adolescent drug abuse. We make sure that there are
posters and brown-bag training in the workplace.
We work with the pharmacies so that when a senior citizen
picks up a prescription, there is a statement on how to be a
good grandparent, how to protect against drug abuse. We work
with the physicians. When a parent comes for a pre-school
physical, the physician says now is the time to start talking
with your children about alcohol, now is the time to watch for
the signs and symptoms of adolescent abuse.
So we work across every sector to actually change the
dynamics, to change the way business is done. It is very, very
effective because we are changing the norm in the community
from one of abuse to one of prevention.
Senator Biden. Now, you and I both know how hard it is to
change the norm. I authored a bill called the Violence Against
Women Act, and because my State is small I was able to do what
legislators aren't supposed to do. I was able to have a hands-
on experience in molding the use of the monies from that Act in
my home State.
I was able to get, for example, all the emergency rooms in
the State--there are not that many in a small State like mine;
it is the size of a congressional district--get them together
and get them to agree, with monies we provided, to train intake
physicians in emergency rooms to recognize domestic abuse and
be willing to file the reports. I found that when you are able
to talk to all the doctors and get them all in one room, you
can do something.
One of the reasons I am asking these questions is you are
sort of head of the field in your home county. Doctors doing
the physical before school seem to me to be an incredibly
opportune moment to educate the parent and the child, and even
test on occasion at that moment.
But the fact of the matter is most doctors don't know much
about this. Most doctors, in my experience, don't know much
about it. They don't want to know about it, they don't want to
pay attention to it. So how do you on a national basis, in your
new capacity--for example, let's just focus on doctors for a
minute. How would you go about trying to, in a sense, educate
the medical profession to not only what to look for, but their
responsibility, their civic responsibility in participating in
this?
Ms. Solberg. I will walk you through what we did in a small
community. I think it translates beautifully. We began by
educating, by talking one on one with physicians. We ended by
having a family practice physician as the president of one of
our coalitions.
We then went on to the county level and involved the
Oakland County Medical Society and educated and trained. They
came in and weighed in on public policy. What is harmful for
our young people?
We then went to the State level to work with the medical
society, and we involved at each step of the way physicians
through education, through practical examples. And because we
are results-oriented, because we are data-driven,we showed them
the numbers, we showed them what we had achieved, and we clearly
illustrated their role in this process.
Senator Biden. Now, would you to the AMA, for example, in
your new capacity? Would that be something you would have in
mind?
Ms. Solberg. I would love to be able to. I have not taken
the position yet and I have not heard what Director Walters has
in store, but it is absolutely one of the things that I think
would be very, very effective to bring physicians nationwide
into the prevention field.
Senator Biden. Well, this was not a set-up question, but
last week I introduced a bill to train doctors and other health
care professionals in terms of continuing medical education.
You know how we lawyers and doctors go back and we have
continuing education requirements, at least in most States, I
believe, if not all, and continue to be updated on the newest
changes. As Sander may know, we do that as lawyers. I would
like you, when you are confirmed, to take a look at that for
me, if you will. It was endorsed by your soon-to-be boss, Mr.
Walters.
Let me conclude by just saying to you that I think that
some of the criticism of your nomination is that you have not
had national experience, that you have not run a large agency,
that you are not a nationally-known name, et cetera. But I
think you are a perfect complement to a man whose background
has been on the enforcement side and whose interest has been on
the enforcement side and on the interdiction side of the
equation.
I think you provide a genuine balance and I think if
anything has been missing--and we have had great people in that
office in all administrations, but if anything has been
missing, it has been the direct connect, the practical hands-on
connection between the localities and how they implement these
programs and initiatives and what they generate spontaneously
and the national strategy.
So I look forward to you being in that position. But
understand--I know you do--that we take it very seriously.
Accountability is a matter of importance to us, and one of the
things I hope you will do is as you, in a sense, experiment at
a national level with your success at the local level--you will
find many of them will not work nationally. Every community is
different and it is much harder to do it nationally than it is
locally.
But I hope you will be candid with us when we call your
before this committee and acknowledge frankly what works and
what doesn't work. The only thing we care about is not that
everything you try works, but that everything that doesn't work
you are honest enough to tell us.
As you well know, public support for the initiatives
relating particularly to treatment and prevention are hard-
fought battles, as Congressman Levin can tell you, because they
are the least popular. The first thing is arrest them and hang
them. We usually get money for that, we usually get support for
that.
The main reason why people are skeptical about our
treatment program and skeptical about our prevention programs
occasionally is that they don't think they work. They do work,
but they don't think they work. For the longest time, for
example, when we spent a lot of money in this prevention field,
we worked with educators.
What we did was we had every school district in the country
at the beginning of a school year hand out pamphlets, which was
about as useful an exercise of money as us carrying coals to
Newcastle. I mean, it was a waste of money, in my view. It was
a typical bureaucratic response to a national program.
So we are looking for some innovation from you. We don't
expect you to reinvent the wheel, but the reason why people are
prepared to take a chance on a local woman who did a great job
is because of that very thing, a local woman did a great job.
And we expect that you will not be afraid to attempt to
innovate. Don't be intimidated in this new job.
Your daughter is shaking her head. Don't worry, mom is
never intimidated. [Laughter.]
Senator Biden. But don't be intimidated by this.
Senator Hatch. Mr. Chairman, I have to necessarily leave.
Senator Biden. Please proceed.
Senator Hatch. No. I just want to apologize for having to
leave, but I have every confidence in all of you.
I would just like to put in the record, if I could, Mr.
Chairman--Speaker Hastert's Task Force for a Drug-Free America
has written a letter in support of these nominees and I would
like that to be included in the record.
Senator Biden. It will be part of the record.
Also, Senator Grassley asked that his opening statement be
put in the record.
Senator Hatch. I also want to thank you, Mr. Chairman, for
holding these hearings and for moving these nominees along. We
need to get these positions filled and if we can work to get
them on the agenda and get them out, I would sure appreciate
it.
Senator Biden. Thank you very much. Thank you for the nice
compliments.
I only have a few more minutes with you all, if you don't
mind.
Dr. Crane, you have had a long service to your country, and
also an interesting and varied background coming into this job.
I would like to talk with you about Colombia for a minute.
Mr. Crane. Yes, sir.
Mr. Biden. I will state at the outset I am a close personal
friend of President Pastrana, whom I speak to literally
regularly. He calls me at home because of my interest in his
country and my interest in the drug problem and Plan Colombia.
He is in a bit of a bind right now. Things are pretty tough
down there.
As the FARC's violent attacks have increased and he has
ended the peace process, this country which we care about, the
oldest democracy in the hemisphere, not only because it is a
source of nearly all the cocaine in this country and the
majority of the heroin on the East Coast, including incredibly
pure heroin that is literally killing kids in my home State of
Delaware, but also because Colombia is an ally and I can't
picture a secure Latin America and South America with this big
country essentially at the head of it becoming a narco-state--I
just can't envision how this hemisphere works very well that
being the case, and I think that is the alternative we are
facing here, a narco-state. As you know, the FARC, as well as
the paramilitaries, have engaged in the trade. They have found
it very lucrative, as well, and for their own political
purposes.
Now, in the position to which you have been nominated, you
will be called upon to advise the drug czar on how we should
proceed in Colombia. First of all, are you prepared to tell us
what your views are on Plan Colombia, as it is now in place?
Have you had a chance to become familiar with it? Do you have a
notion of anything about it?
Mr. Crane. As you might recall--I think if I am confirmed I
would be very honored to continue to advise you. I know in 1998
I testified before you before on the Western Hemisphere Drug
Elimination Act.
It is very true that Colombia is a state in deep peril,
financed primarily by drugs, to many terrorists. So it is a
very serious situation. I have made many trips to Colombia,
have done lots of analysis and attempted to look at how could
we make these plans work as best as possible. So I have made
recommendations to Admiral Loy and others about complementary
programs to ensure that the current Plan Colombia will work as
planned.
So I believe I have a wealth of experience. Ambassador
Patterson wants me to come down as soon as I am confirmed, if I
am confirmed, to begin to meet with them right away. The issues
there are very complex, but what I believe has to be done is we
have to do more than just try to eradicate the coca plants. As
you know, in the last year there has been increasing
eradication.
We have to get to a point there where we can actually
severely damage that business. If we do just a little bit at a
time, it probably won't work. So I will be an advocate of
making sure that that plan works as best as envisioned.
Senator Biden. Now, you are talking like a State Department
guy again. Tell me what you mean specifically, not generically,
that we have to do our best.
Mr. Crane. Well, I think the first thing that we
recommended was that you have to get in and interdict certain
aspects of it because what has happened now----
Senator Biden. What aspects?
Mr. Crane. Primarily the land transportation. If you look
at the current base prices in Colombia, they have risen with
the about 40-percent eradication that occurred this last year.
Now, not all the equipment is there. If you do that, if the
prices rise a lot, then this encourages them to plant more.
So my personal observation this year is there is a very
large amount of new cultivation, attempting to counter Plan
Colombia. Now, if we can do a better job, for example,
interdicting----
Senator Biden. Does price rise mean we are having success
in limiting supply?
Mr. Crane. It does, but the system then is a pernicious
system and it attempts to counter you by, if the price goes up,
then whoever you don't eradicate makes more money on his crop.
Two years ago, I worked with UN officials and we do get
current prices out of the areas in Colombia now. I just got
recent data. My team has been in Colombia. Two weeks ago, they
were in there for two weeks looking at the research aspects of
this.
So one of the aspects that we argued should be done is if
we could interdict the cocaine base coming out of these
agricultural areas and drive the price down, this would be
helpful.
Senator Biden. How would interdicting drive the price down?
I am not arguing with you about the need to interdict.
Mr. Crane. What happens is the base price goes up atthe
cocaine processing lab, which for many of them are in the cities, and
the base price goes down at the farm gate. If you could drive the base
price down to levels below, say, $600, $550--it is right now about
$1,050--then there becomes a lot less profit in the commodity. So that
is one aspect.
But there is a second aspect of any police program, and I
know the interdiction coordinator has put together such a
concept. You also want to drive up their costs for precursor
chemicals, say gasoline and potassium permangenate and other
chemicals like that. In addition to that, we are looking at an
application to use the assets we already have down there for
eradication more effectively. So all of these are ways that I
think could improve the chance for Plan Colombia to deliver the
desired result.
Senator Biden. What about the notion of crop substitution
or moving folks out of the business into other businesses? Most
people argue that a significant number of the growers are
ordinary peasants involved in agriculture who are looking for a
crop in which they can make a living. They are not the ones who
make the big numbers.
Now, granted, these large jungles that are being cleared
and large numbers of hectares being planted are more as a
consequence of an organized and cartel-driven kind of
operation. So it is one thing to eradicate those, and that is
why we provided the helicopters and that is why we didthe
training of the Colombian military.
But what about the folks outside of that valley, outside of
that region? What is the administration, if you know, or what
are you recommending, if you are, as to how to move people into
a different line of work, in effect? You talk crop
substitution. Is that a rational approach, does it hold any
promise, or is it basically a non-starter from your
perspective?
Mr. Crane. From my research perspective, it is possible to
do that, but again it is very important that you not have
cocaine base and leaf at extremely high prices where no other
crops have any chance at all. But there is a second aspect; we
have security problems in many of these areas, and so besides
providing for economic assistance, you also have to provide for
the man's basic right to life and not having a barrel of a gun
pointed at him telling him to grow coca.
So we have a very difficult problem in Colombia. As you
know, there were many growers packs that were into self-
eradicating. So I would say that if I am confirmed, one of the
things we are going to look at it is did they actually do that,
and so I would have to get back to you, I think, and look and
see how those things worked out because right now that will
happen this summer.
Senator Biden. What is the greatest weakness of Plan
Colombia right now as you see it?
Mr. Crane. In my opinion, probably what I call
incrementalism. We did just a little bit each time. So if you
just do a little bit, get a couple planes every year, I don't
think that will work. I think what we will have is a very large
coca agriculture and you will be able to do that.
So in my view, and I have advocated this for several years,
we need to get on with the program and force a radical--not
force a radical, but cause a radical shift in the coca economy.
So if we went along and just did a little bit each year, I
don't think that will work, so I wouldn't be an advocate of
that.
Senator Biden. As you probably know, the provision of U.S.
intelligence for air interdiction to the governments of Peru
and Colombia have been suspended since the fatal accident last
spring in which a plane carrying U.S. missionaries was
erroneously shot down after being suspected of carrying drugs.
As I understand it, the administration is still reviewing
whether the program should be resumed.
Do you have any views on whether the program should be
resumed?
Mr. Crane. If I may, I would like to put in context the
conditions under which you do these types of operations. If you
look at the history, in 1982 1,100 airplanes landed in Florida
with cocaine on them. With military advice, the Customs
Service, and so on, we have been able to stop most of the air
trafficking, and the air trafficking is a major threat because
it is the least costly way to move illegal drugs
surreptitiously because of the issues of security.
If you look at the current air situation, which I have just
done, pretty much most of the drugs are not moved across the
Caribbean anymore by air; it is mostly surface. If you look in
Colombia, there are certainly a lot of questions about we have
deployed large-sensor systems. So from that point of view, it
is a very important program, if they attempt to use aircraft
widely, to have the capability to stop them.
Now, does that mean that you only have to have a shoot-down
law? The answer is no. The United States did not do that over
the Caribbean. However, it requires a large amount of resources
to be applied if we were to go that route. So in my opinion, in
the remote areas of the Amazon, if we have large narco or
terrorist aircraft activity, it may be necessary to take a very
serious look at reinstituting that program as soon as possible.
Senator Biden. I happen to agree with you.
Scott, let me turn to you if I may. You know the numbers,
but for the record let me just repeat a few statistics. As I
said earlier, kids in rural areas are more likely than kids in
large urban areas to use certain kindsof drugs, including
methamphetamine and cocaine.
A recent CASA study showed that 8th-graders in rural
America are 104 percent more likely than those living in urban
centers to use amphetamines generally, including
methamphetamine. Eighty-three percent are more likely to use
crack cocaine, 50 percent are more likely to use powdered
cocaine, and 34 percent are more likely to smoke marijuana. The
study goes on to say rural communities are woefully unprepared
to provide treatment to the growing number of people becoming
addicted.
This will come on your watch, Mary Ann: In 1993--this is
the last statistic I am aware of--55 percent of the 3,075
counties in the United States had no practicing psychologists,
psychiatrists, or social workers. And all these counties, every
one, was a rural county.
Now, I come from a State that although it is in the midst
of the North Atlantic States, we found that with the drug
cartels operating very successfully in Philadelphia, because of
I-95, the major north-south freeway, and because of the Port of
Philadelphia and easy transit from New York and the Port of New
York, as we put pressure on drug cartels and organized units of
drug crime in Philadelphia, for example, it became economically
sound for these dealers to go to areas where there was less
enforcement, less capability, and not as many people. But if
you hit a broad enough area, it was very successful.
So in rural Delaware, if you have ever read Michener's book
Chesapeake, you could understand my little State. Two-thirds of
the State has been isolated from the commerce and intercourse
of the States because it literally is that peninsula that comes
down from the Delaware River on this side, if you look at a
map, and the Chesapeake Bay on the other side, and it is called
the Delmarva peninsula. Delaware, Maryland and Virginia are on
that peninsula.
It has become quite a haven for drug organizations because
of so many migrant workers and because we are an agricultural
State. You have motorcycle gangs and you have the Cripps and
the Bloods, who long ago found the beauty of Utah.
I remember the statistic a couple of years ago--I used to
do this every single day; I don't anymore, but there were more
drive-by shootings in Salt Lake City than there were in any
other major city in America. I think that statistic is correct.
I am prepared to be corrected if I am wrong, but it is
astounding that the beautiful city of Salt Lake in the far West
found itself in that position.
So you are aware of all these things. In your capacity as
the guy who is going to be out there doing the job that a
former Delawarean did, I might add, what are you going to do?
What are some of the ideas you have as to how to energize your
office, with limited resources, unfortunately?
I know none of you can comment on this. I am sure every one
of you fully agrees with the President's budget. I don't. He
has drastically cut law enforcement now in the name of homeland
defense. He says he has made it up other places, but the bottom
line is, Commissioner, you are going to have fewer cops.
Mark my words. I predict to you within five years you are
going to have 20 percent fewer--even with prosperity in Salt
Lake, 20 percent fewer cops because the Biden crime bill is no
longer going to be funded, the COPS program. You are going to
have fewer resources available to you in local law enforcement.
Berne grants are being eliminated or combined with other
grants. So there is a net 40-percent reduction in help for
local law enforcement.
So what are you going to do, Scott? I mean, how are you
going to respond to the concerns of these local officials, who
I find in my State, maybe again because it is so small and I
have been so deeply personally--by the way, not that I am a
good guy. I don't mean that, but when you have one person from
the Federal side of this who happens to have jurisdiction over
these subjects willing to sit down with the local chiefs and
the local sheriffs and the local commissioners and bring in the
regional DEA guy, because he can't say no to you, and bring in
the regional FBI guy or woman, it gets results. And the
interesting thing is there is significant harmony. I mean, it
really is working, like the commissioner found.
So what do you do? That is a very broad question, but you
have vast experience here. What are you going to be looking
for? What are you going to be focusing on, given the range you
need to do your job in your new capacity?
Mr. Burns. Senator, if every governor and every mayor or
even half of the council people or commissioners or sheriffs
understood and appreciated the issues half as much as you do, I
think we would be halfway home.
Senator Biden. In fairness to them, they have got a lot of
other things to focus on.
Mr. Burns. I understand, but this, in my humble opinion, is
something that we all need to make a priority and we all need
to focus on. And I won't speak State Department-eze; we are
getting our butts kicked.
I understand that there will be diminishment in funds, in
Berne grant monies and COPS monies, which we have all
appreciated, but in my county we did it without any HIDTA
money, and we did it because maybe it was self-defense. And we
took it a step further and took the money that we forfeited
from the dealers, and not a marijuana cigarette and we
forfeited a Mercedes Benz. I am talking about 4 and 5 and 6 and
800 pounds of marijuana and 500 kilos cocaine,and taking a
house that was a distribution center.
We put that money in a fund and we funded DARE, and we have
one of the most comprehensive DARE programs in the country
right there in little southern Utah. So I think people can do
things without money and without the Federal Government
standing by to tell us how we do it. But it takes initiative
and it takes guts and it takes people wanting to understand the
issues because it is a dirty world.
You understand about heroin coming from Pennsylvania to
your State. You understand about the methamphetamine problem on
the West Coast. You understand about baby binkies and water in
a remote area. Most Americans, Senator, with all due respect,
have no idea what you are talking about, and I guess part of
what my job will be is to go to those localities to talk to
them about the issues.
I will go to Delaware. I would be more than happy if you
would allow me to work on that particular issue, if I am
fortunate enough to be confirmed.
Senator Biden. One of the things I have found, and I want
to know what your experience in this is, having been a local
official, is that it is not that localities lack capability.
They tend to lack resources and they tend to lack expertise,
and they tend to be almost not afraid in the sense of personal
courage, but afraid in terms of thinking that maybe what they
think they know is not as simple and clear as they have
concluded it is; that there must be something more complicated.
So they tend to be reluctant to put their arms around it
for fear that they may be missing something. They remind me
sort of the freshman who shows up in a philosophy class with a
great idea. It may be original, but because he or she hasn't
read it somewhere, they assume it mustn't be significant.
So I have found on a much more limited basis as I have gone
around the country, particularly selling this and the Violence
Against Women Act, that when you actually provide a model for
local officials, they are hungry to try to replicate it.
And it doesn't have to be a single model. For example, we
found in the case of violence against women that there are four
places where women who are victimized lose their resolve to
proceed against their attacker, whether it is their husband,
significant other, or someone they work with.
Strangely enough, one of those places is when they show
up--and it varies from State to State--at, say, the family
court in the State of Delaware to pursue their complaint. They
walk up to an intake officer and the intake officer says, now,
what was it; right in front of everybody, what was it? When did
he hit you? Well, I don't see any bruises.
That is the place the woman turns and walks away, or when
she goes to court and the court is insensitive enough to put
her and the abuser in the same room as they are waiting to go
into the courtroom, or when you have cross-examination or
direct examination by the prosecutor and he does not place his
physical body between eye contact of the accused and the
accuser, because that is when women believe that no one is
going to be with them as that person who is 6'2", 210 pounds,
is staring at her, and she is 5'4" and 112 pounds and she knows
if he doesn't go to jail, he is coming back. They are very
practical things.
I implore you to not decide on a single package, but try
very hard to--they are telling me I am supposed to slow this
up, which I am not going to do because I pay little attention
to my staff because they are brighter than I am.
As I said, I have a deep interest in this. When we still
have statistics out of Colombia showing that 80 percent--
remember this, 80 percent of every single solitary prisoner in
America, State, county, local and Federal, either is an abuser
of and/or addicted to alcohol or an illicit drug, and/or is
arrested or is in there because they were trafficking in those
substances--80 percent.
With all the success we have had with violent crime in
America under the crime bill and other factors, imagine ifyou
could wave a wand and God could change very single American so that
their brain could no longer respond to the stimuli of alcohol or drugs.
Imagine what would happen in America. It would be a transforming
experience.
My deceased wife, God love her, used to say the greatest
and worst gift God gave to mankind is free will. Well, we have
to figure out how to help these rural communities, and I think,
Scott, it is the single most glaring and urgent unmet need that
we have in this area because the traffickers have found--you
know, it is like punching a pillow. You know, we crack down in
the urban centers. Even if we affect interdiction
significantly, which I strongly support as an important aspect
of this, it pops up where there is the least resistance.
As you well know, one of the objectives we have all had in
law enforcement is to at least raise the collateral cost of
doing business in this business. So I hope you will not lose
your practical sense. This is not rocket science. Medical cures
are equivalent to rocket science because they are above my pay
grade, but this is not, and I hope you will keep your
enthusiasm and be willing to come up with some practical
programmatic--not programmatic--let me conclude with this.
I would hope that as you go around the country, you do more
than--although it is important to do this--do more thanlisten.
It is presumptuous to say that as a Federal official. It is important
to listen, but we have been listening now for 20 years. We pretty well
know what people are saying.
What I find people hungry for is very, very basic things,
very basic, bite-size, understandable, applicable ideas that
they can use. So I hope you go with a little bit of a
smorgasbord and say this is what worked in Lynnfield,
Massachusetts, this is what worked in Moab, Utah, this is what
works over here. I don't know what works best for you, but let
me tell you how we do these things, very practical things.
People are hungry for the help, hungry for it.
You know, I used to have a friend and he was a great, great
basketball player. He played on that NIT team at Providence--it
shows you how old I am--in 1964 with Riordan and Walker and
guys who went on to play in the pros and were all-pros. His
name was Pete McLaughlin, and Pete would never argue that his
greatest asset was his academic skills. He was a bright guy,
but it was not the most important thing to him.
But Pete had an expression that I wish every academically-
accomplished person understood fully. He used to say, Joe, you
have got to know how to know, you have got to know how to know.
A lot of local officials are incredibly talented, but they
don't know how to know, and I hope you will go with a little
bit of a menu for them to give them some advice.
Mr. Burns. I will give it my best, Senator.
Senator Biden. I have no doubt about that.
I am sorry to keep you all so long, but as I said, I guess
some would suggest it hasn't been all that successful, but I
have spent 26 of the 28 years of my life working on this, and
actually 32, counting as a local official, and there is nothing
that is more important to me, including the Office of Juvenile
Justice.
Mr. Flores, I appreciate, and I mean this sincerely, your
work in the past. I appreciate the fact that you have felt
during the last administration that there was not enough time
and attention placed to dealing with Internet porn and other
things that caused you to resign.
I don't think you will, but just to state it up front, I
hope you approach your new job with a results-oriented notion
rather than a value content idea; that you don't walk in with
an ideological disposition as to how to handle all matters. I
hope you have, and I believe you do, an open mind.
You are about to take over an office that has been sort of
a stepchild for a while, although we have significantly
increased the budget over the years when I was chairman and
when Senator Hatch was chairman. Senator Hatch and I have
worked very hard to reauthorize the Juvenile Justice Act and
update it and make it, we think, better, and we have been
allies in that effort.
It has been very difficult to get it done. We have passed
it a couple of times. It got over to the House. Then the House
has subsequently passed one that can't get by here. So we are
kind of in a conundrum right now in terms of whether we
initiate a new, improved authorization for your department or
whether we try to just go along with what the law has been or
we just limp along year to year in the authorization by funding
through appropriations. I realize that is Washington jargon
that maybe only you understand, having worked here.
One of the questions I want to ask you to get a sense--I
don't expect any academic treatise in response to this,
although you are fully capable of it--to get a sense from my
perspective, as they say, to use the vernacular, of where you
are coming from on these issues.
Juvenile crime has plummeted over the past decade. The
irony is that it has plummeted. From 1991 to 2000, the number
of persons under the age of 18 years old arrested for murder
dropped 65 percent. I am the guy who wrote the reports in the
1980s about the skyrocketing juvenile murder rate in the United
States, juveniles committing murder. Even though I take some
pride in having authored the major crime bills from 1988 on, I
am surprised at the drop, as to how far it has dropped.
Rape is down 26 percent, robbery 29 percent, and this all
happened at a time when the juvenile justice experts and
demographers told us we were likely to see a rise, because
there was an 8-percent increase in the juvenile population
between 1993 and 1999. As you know, that is when the hormones
kick in. That is the age where you think you are invincible,
that you will never be caught. So in a sense, the statistics
belie the predictions and the increase in juvenile population.
What do you think is most responsible for this, or how do
you explain that phenomenon--a significant decrease,
notwithstanding an increase in the juvenile populations? I used
to go through this thing during the 1970s and 1980s talking
about how the most violent criminals in our society--in the
1960s--don't hold me to the exact numbers, but something like
18 years, 6 months of age, on average. Then it dropped down to
17-something, and it dropped down to 15 years and 6 months or
something, the most violent of all criminals, not juvenile
criminals, criminals.
Now, that trend seems to have not--it has been reversed in
spite of increases in juvenile population. To what do you
attribute it?
Mr. Flores. Senator, I think that there is probablynot any
one thing that is responsible for any of these trends. I think that
oftentimes the temptation is to reach out and grab a hold of one thing
or to think that any particular program that is being supported or run
is in large part responsible for any one particular aspect.
Senator Biden. I agree with that.
Mr. Flores. I have, in deference to the Senate process, not
had an opportunity to immerse myself in much of the specific
work of the Office of Juvenile Justice. But I have had a chance
both during my time at the Justice Department in the Criminal
Division, as well as during the past four years, to take a look
at a number of societal issues that continue to affect, I
think, the numbers.
While I am very pleased about the change in direction in
terms of the numbers of juveniles in the system or at risk of
going into the system, I think about how horrible it has got to
be as a parent to watch my child go into the system. And it
would be very small solace indeed for someone to say, well,
your son is part of that smaller percentage.
Senator Biden. I have that. I don't need a lecture about
that. I mean, I would not take a back seat to anyone in my
empathy for those whose children get caught up in the system
and get picked up by the system.
The question is, as a policymaker, I am only able to go on
a policy level deal with and initiate or participate in those
programs that have the best chance of keeping the most children
out of that system, out of that stream of crime and drugs.
On the personal side, I, like you, suspect that I have
counseled and met with and have empathized with and personally
intervened on behalf of more families or as many families as
any man or woman who does this on anything other than a full-
time job as a counselor. So I am not looking for your concern
about those who are caught in the system. I am trying to get a
sense of what you understand to be the reason why it has
changed.
My dad, God love him, is in the hospital. He is 86 years
old and he has a lot of wisdom, and my dad says all the time,
Joe, we always fail to learn our lessons from our victories; we
learn the wrong lessons from our victories. Well, there have
been some small victories here and unless we figure out why
this occurred, we don't know what to do from here on.
Otherwise, the past is not a guide to take us to the future.
This may just be pure happenstance, and I am not being
facetious. I mean, if you had an 8-percent decrease in the
juvenile population over the last 10 years, I would say to you
as someone who has immersed himself in this for three decades
trying to learn as much as I can--without exaggeration, I have
held more hearings on this subject with experts than any person
who serves or has ever served in the United States Congress and
I still don't fully understand it. I only come away with
certain basic things I know for certain.
One is there are four corners, three cops on three of the
corners, not one on the other, and if a crime is going to be
committed at an intersection, it is most likely to be committed
where the cop is not.
Second, when you get to be 35 years old, it is hard to jump
chain link fences when you are being chased by cops.
[Laughter.]
I mean this literally, literally literally. There are only
certain things we really know, and so what I am trying to get
at is you are going to head up a department that is tasked to
deal with the single most important intersection in the
criminal justice system.
We know and you know from your great experience that if a
kid gets through his or her teen years without any interface
with the law, on the wrong side of it, the prospects of that
person being caught up in drugs or the criminal justice system
down the road are infinitesimally smaller than a child who has
even been picked up for truancy. We know that truancy is the
single biggest sign as to whether or not there will be a
criminal record that a child will have and the road map to
delinquency.
We know that cigarette use is the single best sign to know
whether or not someone is more likely to be addicted to a
controlled substance. A kid who has never smoked a cigarette--
what is the number--is one-fifth or one-tenth as likely to ever
use a controlled substance as someone who has smoked a
cigarette.
So there are certain basic things we know, and I don't have
the answer, but I would like to know what your answer is. If
you would like to think about it before we bring your
confirmation up for a vote, I am happy to wait, but I would
just like you to muse with me about why do you think these
numbers are down. Are the statistics being kept differently?
When we did the violence against women stuff, we found, to
be totally honest about it, that the rate against violence
against women. I had done a study, and actually I used the
Bureau of Justice Statistics. From 1978 or thereabouts, to
1988, or 1976 to 1986, violent crime against women in America
went up over 100 percent, those between the ages of 18 and 30.
But violent crime in the same time went down for men in that
age.
I thought I knew all there was to know about violence. I
thought violence was the ultimate equal opportunity employer,
but it turned out not to be so we started focusingon why. One
of the reasons it went up against women is women had more support from
other women and they began to report crimes more than they did before.
Is there less reporting?
I mean, what does your gut tell you, based on your
background, as to why these numbers went down?
Mr. Flores. Senator, my gut and my observation tells me
that I think these numbers go down because I think we have
spent more and done a better job at early intervention. I think
that we have now, and OJJDP currently operates a number of
programs which focus on early intervention, the personal
investment of adult lives into children's lives, so that things
like mentoring, things like the proper joinder between
educational efforts along the lines with teaching proper
behavior--the Boys and Girls Clubs, in fact--I was on their Web
site just recently and I noticed that they are pushing that
kind of a model where they are trying to figure out how do we
take those new educational responsibilities and standards and
how do we use our after-school programs, how do we use the
resources we have.
You raised earlier today an issue of limited funds and
budget issues, but I would like to, I guess, echo the comments
that were made that there is no substitute, I think, for the
investment of adult lives into the lives of children.
I mean, I have heard it said, you know, very few husbands
could ever afford to pay their wives what they are worth if
they had to actually contract out for the work because they do
so much that is not reflected----
Senator Biden. If you contracted it out, she would leave
you. I mean, she could get much better pay. [Laughter.]
Mr. Flores. Because of the fact that one volunteer can
provide resources, help, support for a child, as people
provided for me during my lifetime, I think that makes a
difference. I think that we have really focused for----
Senator Biden. But doesn't that run counter to everything
that the statistics show? The statistics show during this same
10-year period that fewer parents were married, fewer nuclear
families, fewer parents taking the responsibility you are
talking about, fewer parents engaged in the process, fewer
parents prepared to show up.
My wife is a professional educator. Fewer parents showed up
during this decade at parent-teacher meetings than before.
Fewer parents are engaged in these programs, and yet this has
gone down. That is why I think it is very important, and Dr.
Crane in a different area and Ms. Solberg talk about data-based
conclusions; in other words, making sure that we really know
what we are talking about rather than just following our
instincts.
You know, when I stand up and talk about American foreign
policy to my constituency and I start talking about what is
going on in terms of negotiations with the Chinese regarding
strategic doctrine, everyone sort of stands back in my
constituency and says, well, you know, Joe is an expert in this
and I will listen to what he has to say.
I have done more work on the criminal justice side of the
equation. When I speak, everyone assumes, which they have an
absolute right to, that everybody is an expert on law
enforcement. Everybody knows why we have crime. No one thinks
that there is any database. If we just eradicated poverty, we
would have no crime, on the one end, and those that say if we
just occasionally took the belt off the loops on our pants and
smacked our children, we would have no crime.
Yet, everybody seems to be fully prepared to be an expert
on law enforcement. Yet, we have increasing data to determine
that some of our old saws just don't hold water; they just
don't make sense, they just don't add up.
I hope as you go into this you will focus more on the data,
not you personally, but less on what, coming from the left and
the right, are these sure ideological notions of what solves
the problem. I find I have little respect for the left or the
right because they don't think very much. There is a great deal
of certitude. They know for certain that they are right because
the Lord told them or they just know in their heart.
For example, you point out Boys and Girls Clubs. When I
wrote the crime bill, I am the guy that wrote into the law that
Boys and Girls Clubs be funded, because I couldn't get my more
conservative Democrat and Republican friends to think
prevention worked.
I found a study that was a very serious study done taking
the same demographic breakdown of public housing projects in
three Midwestern cities. I believe it was Chicago, St. Louis,
and I forget where else, to tell you the truth now. It showed,
where there was a Boys and Girls Club in the basement of a
public housing project, there was, on average, 28 percent fewer
crimes, 28 percent less use of drugs. I mean, it averaged out
to 28 percent.
So I am not a rocket scientist, but it seemed to me this
might be a good idea. What we did is we went in and we found,
with the help of the police organizations that helped me write
that bill--when I asked cops what they wanted, I said do you
want more cops or do you want a couple more Boys and Girls
Clubs in your neighborhoods? They said give me the Boys and
Girls Clubs.
Well, my right-wing friends thought that was--``Moses''
Heston thought that was a little bit of this just social
engineering. But guess what? It works, it works. Thereason
there are more Boys and Girls Clubs is we put $20 million a year in.
They have increased by two-thirds, the number of them.
I called a guy named Case and I said, you know, kids don't
know how to use computers; there is a great digital divide. So
he contributed through his organization 57,000 brand new
computers so that every Boys and Girls Club in America would be
guaranteed to be hooked to the Internet and have available to
them a minimum of ten of these computers in every Boys and
Girls Club. Then I got a call from Microsoft saying why didn't
you ask us? So I asked the head of a little company called
Microsoft and he committed $100 million to the Boys and Girls
Clubs to provide all the software and the teachers.
Now, in the face of all this, the President eliminated
funding for Boys and Girls Clubs. I don't quite get it. I don't
get it. Is there something not working? What am I missing?
So without putting you more on the spot, since you are not
in office yet, but I am going to put you on the spot a lot
because you are a bright guy and you will give me honest
answers, I just ask you as a favor to honestly look at what you
thinks works and what doesn't work, what works and what doesn't
work.
I don't know the answers. I don't know what works and what
doesn't work, and I am not sure crime is down because of the
investment we made in the juvenile justice programs. But I do
know that your notion about hands-on parents--fewer parents are
hands-on today than they were in 1990, and yet crime is down.
But what does that mean?
Well, I think it means that we have fundamentally increased
across the board--local, State and national--focus on
mentoring, fundamentally increased our commitment to things
like Boys and Girls Clubs, which is not a real substitute for
parents, but when you don't have nuclear families, then it
seems to be of some help. Those silly little programs like
keeping gymnasiums open until midnight in tough parts of town
reduces crime.
So I hope you will look at that stuff because I believe you
are about to assume the single most important job in the
system, the single most important job in the system. Not that
you are responsible for the answers of bringing crime down, but
if we can get a handle on this stream, if we can keep out kids
out of the crime and drug stream, our chances of being safe and
my 85-year-old mother who was mugged in a parking lot not being
mugged again in the parking lot, in broad daylight at the
supermaket--by the way, when they caught the guy and the woman,
my mother said they needed the money, honey, don't do it. God
love her. They needed the money.
At any rate, the fact of the matter is I just hope we will
try to figure out what really works and what really doesn't
work, because something happened, something happened. For my
Republican friends, in spite of Clinton something happened, in
spite of him, maybe. But whatever the reason, something good
happened. How do we keep it going, unless it really didn't
happen, and it may not have because maybe we are doing the
statistics a different way.
So that is my only plea with you, if you will as open-
minded as you can, because you are at the place where there is
an intersection of all these things. I know you know that. I
sound like I am lecturing. I am not. I don't mean to come
across that way, but I really think the job you are about to
take is so, so important and it needs an advocate.
Just as you were an advocate in the Justice Department, and
that is what I admire about you, be the same advocate. If you
become convinced that something that is within your
jurisdiction is working and people don't want to keep it, be an
advocate. You have been in the past. I admire you for it.
In the interest of making sure that your wife is still
willing to let you take this job, since she is with your three
beautiful children in that room--I say to all the children in
the room if they can hear it--and you are no child, honey, but
an old lady like you, this is the time to demand something very
important that you want. Now is the time, as dad walks out, to
say, dad, how about the following? If you need any advice on
how to leverage this, come on up and I am happy to talk with
you about this, okay?
I think, Mary Ann, that your daughter has already leveraged
you, so I don't think it matters for you.
Does anyone want to make a closing comment? I have kept you
too long, but again I apologize for my enthusiasm about this. I
don't have the answers. I have been doing this a long time and
I don't have all the answers, but some things seem clearer to
me than others. I hope whatever you think is the path to deal
with what is the most important job, I think, in Government--
you all are about to assume those jobs. Drugs and juvenile
justice are the gateways to a significant part of the problem
America faces as it relates to productivity and as it relates
to basic value system and our public safety.
So I thank you all very much for indulging me, and I wish
you all luck in your new jobs and I look forward to working
with you.
We are adjourned.
[Whereupon, at 12:20 p.m., the committee was adjourned.]
[Questions and answers and submissions for the record
follow:]
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