[Senate Hearing 107-13]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
S. Hrg. 107-13
NOMINATION OF JOE M. ALLBAUGH
=======================================================================
HEARING
before the
COMMITTEE ON
GOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS
UNITED STATES SENATE
ONE HUNDRED SEVENTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
ON THE
NOMINATION OF JOE M. ALLBAUGH TO BE DIRECTOR OF THE FEDERAL EMERGENCY
MANAGEMENT AGENCY (FEMA)
__________
FEBRUARY 13, 2001
__________
Printed for the use of the Committee on Governmental Affairs
U.S. GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE
70-751 WASHINGTON : 2001
_______________________________________________________________________
For sale by the Superintendent of Documents, Congressional Sales Office
U.S. Government Printing Office, Washington, DC 20402
COMMITTEE ON GOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS
FRED THOMPSON, Tennessee, Chairman
TED STEVENS, Alaska JOSEPH I. LIEBERMAN, Connecticut
SUSAN M. COLLINS, Maine CARL LEVIN, Michigan
GEORGE V. VOINOVICH, Ohio DANIEL K. AKAKA, Hawaii
PETE V. DOMENICI, New Mexico RICHARD J. DURBIN, Illinois
THAD COCHRAN, Mississippi ROBERT G. TORRICELLI, New Jersey
JUDD GREGG, New Hampshire MAX CLELAND, Georgia
ROBERT F. BENNETT, Utah THOMAS R. CARPER, Delaware
JEAN CARNAHAN, Missouri
Hannah S. Sistare, Staff Director and Counsel
Johanna L. Hardy, Counsel
Joyce A. Rechtschaffen, Democratic Staff Director and Counsel
Susan E. Propper, Democratic Counsel
Darla D. Cassell, Chief Clerk
C O N T E N T S
------
Page
Opening statements:
Senator Thompson............................................. 1
Senator Lieberman............................................ 3
Senator Voinovich............................................ 4
Senator Akaka................................................ 5
Senator Cochran.............................................. 6
Senator Carnahan............................................. 6
Senator Domenici............................................. 7
WITNESSES
Hon. Phil Gramm, a U.S. Senator from the State of Texas.......... 2
Hon. Kay Bailey Hutchison, a U.S. Senator from the State of Texas 3
Joe M. Allbaugh to be Director of the Federal Emergency
Management Agency (FEMA)....................................... 8
Alphabetical List of Witnesses
Allbaugh, Joe M.:
Testimony.................................................... 8
Prepared statement........................................... 21
Biographical and financial information....................... 24
Pre-hearing questions and responses.......................... 33
Post-hearing questions and responses......................... 47
Gramm, Hon. Phil:
Testimony.................................................... 2
Hutchison, Hon. Kay Bailey:
Testimony.................................................... 3
NOMINATION OF JOE M. ALLBAUGH TO BE DIRECTOR OF THE FEDERAL EMERGENCY
MANAGEMENT AGENCY (FEMA)
----------
TUESDAY, FEBRUARY 13, 2001
U.S. Senate,
Committee on Governmental Affairs,
Washington, DC.
The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:35 a.m., in
room SD-342, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Fred
Thompson, Chairman of the Committee, presiding.
Present: Senators Thompson, Voinovich, Cochran, Domenici,
Lieberman, Akaka, and Carnahan.
OPENING STATEMENT OF CHAIRMAN THOMPSON
Chairman Thompson. The Committee will be in order, please.
This morning, we are holding a hearing to consider the
nomination of Joe Allbaugh to be Director of the Federal
Emergency Management Agency (FEMA). We recognize Senator Gramm
and Senator Hutchison of Texas.
The Director of FEMA is one of the most important positions
in government and is extremely important to the safety of the
public. FEMA is the central Federal agency for emergency
planning, preparedness, mitigation, response, and recovery. It
works closely with State and local governments by deploying
Federal resources when disaster occurs, funding emergency
programs, and offering technical guidance and training to
communities nationwide.
FEMA has coordinated the expenditure of upwards of $2.8
billion in a single year for disaster relief. Because of the
nature of FEMA's mission, the Director will need to assure that
we have invested in adequate capacity and resources and then
manage them effectively in order to serve the expected
emergency needs of the country. The agency faces a number of
management challenges, such as creating a performance-based
culture, strengthening internal control deficiencies,
performing cost-benefit analysis of information technology
investments, and better managing disaster grants. With strong
leadership, I believe this agency will represent what the
Federal Government does best, facilitate and coordinate
assistance to communities in need of support after a natural
disaster.
Mr. Allbaugh has filed responses to a biographical and
financial questionnaire, answered pre-hearing questions
submitted by the Committee, has had his financial statements
reviewed by the Office of Government Ethics. Without objection,
this information will be made a part of the hearing record,
with the exception of the financial data, which is on file and
available for public inspection in the Committee's offices.
Our Committee's rules require that all witnesses at
nomination hearings give their testimony under oath, so Mr.
Allbaugh, would you please stand and raise your right hand.
Do you solemnly swear to tell the truth, the whole truth,
and nothing but the truth, so help you, God?
Mr. Allbaugh. I do.
Chairman Thompson. Thank you very much. Please be seated.
At this point, I would like to give Mr. Allbaugh an
opportunity to introduce any family members that may be in the
audience this morning.
Mr. Allbaugh. Thank you, Mr. Chairman and Members. I am
honored today to have my bride with me of umpteen years, 16
years. I am lucky that she is here.
Senator Carnahan. You are already in trouble.
Mr. Allbaugh. I know. I am always in trouble. [Laughter.]
But Diane is at my side almost every day, every hour, and I
am blessed to have her a part of my family and I am blessed to
be a part of her family, as well as our kids. We are very
fortunate. Thank you, sir.
Chairman Thompson. Well, thank you very much. We welcome
all of you here this morning, both family and friends.
I will call on Senator Lieberman now for any opening
remarks. I understand, however, that Senator Gramm has another
hearing that he must attend, so we will try to get to you.
Senator Lieberman. Do you want to go ahead, Senator Gramm?
Senator Gramm. Thank you very much, Senator.
Chairman Thompson. He is the senior Senator.
Senator Lieberman. If you do, you owe me a big one.
Senator Gramm. Well, listen, I have already paid. I am
introducing the man that helped keep you in the Senate.
[Laughter.]
A higher and better use of your talents.
Senator Lieberman. I knew I should not have let you go
forward. You have stolen my opening line.
TESTIMONY OF HON. PHIL GRAMM, A U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF
TEXAS
Senator Gramm. Mr. Chairman, I will be brief. Thank you. As
you know, the Banking Committee has Alan Greenspan downstairs
and everybody always wants to speak for him and what he says is
sort of like the Bible.
To make a long story short, I have known Joe Allbaugh for a
very long time. He is highly respected by everybody in Texas
who has worked for him. As you all know, he has been our
governor's right-hand man on numerous issues, including
disaster relief in Texas. The thing that has always impressed
me about Joe is that when we have had disasters in Texas--as
the governor's chief of staff, he has been the point man in
dealing with disasters in our State--Joe has always cared
enough to go out where the disaster occurred, look people in
the face, and ask them what he and the governor and the State
could do to help.
He is a very effective administrator: He follows up, he
gets the details right. He is exactly the right person for this
job, in my opinion. He is what we call in my State a ``top
hand.'' He is the kind of guy you want on your side when you
have something important to do, and it seems to me that this is
an important function.
So I am very happy to be here and commend Joe to you. I
just cannot imagine anybody who would have been a better
appointment by our new President. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman Thompson. Thank you very much. Get down there and
make sure Mr. Greenspan does not change his mind.
We will now call on Senator Hutchison.
TESTIMONY OF HON. KAY BAILEY HUTCHISON, A U.S. SENATOR FROM THE
STATE OF TEXAS
Senator Hutchison. Thank you very much. I appreciate the
Committee allowing us to go forward, because I think it is
important to note that both Senators are here because we know
Joe Allbaugh personally. We have worked with him on many issues
and he brings the right experience to this job. Because of his
role as the Chief of Staff for the Governor of Texas, he
managed and monitored the State's responses to disasters and
emergencies in Texas, and, of course, that was working very
closely with FEMA. So he knows what the States need and what
people need in a disaster.
I think his management skills are very well known and well
regarded, and I would say that in his tenure as Chief of Staff
for Governor Bush, he presided over 18 disasters. In Texas, we
seem to have them all, floods, tornadoes, and hurricanes. So he
has the kind of experience that I think will not only help him
coordinate these emergencies, but relate to the governor's
offices that are the first line of knowledge and defense for
the constituents in any State.
I, too, have known him for a long time. There is not a time
when I called Joe Allbaugh on something important to Texas that
I did not get an immediate response and all of the information
that I needed to do my job to represent my State. I think that
he is totally equipped to handle this job and I think this
should be one of the easiest confirmations that we have this
year. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman Thompson. Thank you very much, Senator Hutchison.
I appreciate your being here, and I know you have other
business, so thank you for being here with us.
Senator Lieberman.
OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR LIEBERMAN
Senator Lieberman. Thanks, Mr. Chairman. Good morning, Mr.
Allbaugh, and congratulations on your nomination to direct
FEMA. I would just repeat by reference the gratitude that
Senator Gramm expressed on my behalf to you for returning me to
this job that I love so much.
As you know, the Federal Emergency Management Agency is
there for people when they need assistance the most, to help
them prepare for and recover from major disasters that destroy
their property and disrupt their lives. As such, it is one of
the government's most important front-line agencies.
For the last 8 years, FEMA has been in the hands of an
extremely capable and experienced emergency manager. James Lee
Witt overhauled the entire agency in its operations. He
heightened FEMA's response capabilities, and in doing so, I
think improved the agency's public image overall. I hope, if
confirmed, that you will build on Mr. Witt's successes and also
tackle some of the issues that remain.
For example, FEMA has rightly put pre-disaster prevention
and preparedness at the top of its priority list, but attention
now needs to be directed toward ensuring these prevention
programs are accomplishing what they are meant to accomplish.
The modernization of flood insurance rate maps is another
important project, but here, too, funding has been a problem.
Last year's modifications to FEMA's authorizing act, which put
more emphasis on mitigation and require changes in FEMA's
response and recovery programs, must now be properly
implemented. I will say that within my own State of
Connecticut, where we have had our share of flood and hurricane
damage, we have called on FEMA for help and, generally
speaking, the help has been there and been very important.
I do want to report to you as you begin this work that my
office in Hartford has heard some complaints from constituents
who were dissatisfied with the service they received from some
of the claims adjustors with which FEMA has contracted. I do
not know whether this is a local experience or whether it is
more national, but I would urge you to take a look at it.
Obviously, the destruction of home and property strikes at the
heart of an individual's world, and I am sure you will agree
that when disaster hits, those caught in the way need quick,
efficient, and, indeed, compassionate help to put the pieces of
their lives back together again.
I want to add, finally, that a number of communities in
Connecticut, including Westport and Easthaven, have been
selected by FEMA to participate in Project Impact, which as I
am sure you know now is a pre-disaster mitigation program
designed to reduce losses through preparedness. It is too early
to pass judgment on this project, but I am pleased that towns
in my State have been included in the effort and we look
forward to working with them.
Mr. Allbaugh, I appreciate your responses to the
Committee's pre-hearing questions. If confirmed, your
background in State Government will be an asset as you fulfill
your duty to coordinate FEMA's activities with State and local
governments. I look forward to your testimony and to getting to
know you better. Thank you.
Chairman Thompson. Thank you very much.
Senator Voinovich, do you have any opening comments.
OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR VOINOVICH
Senator Voinovich. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to
welcome you, Joe Allbaugh, to this hearing. I enjoyed our
meeting together. It is always good to have someone working in
the Federal Government that has got some local and State
experience. As chief of staff, you had to deal with many of the
emergencies that you had in the State of Texas. I think that is
going to serve you in good stead because you really have had an
opportunity to observe the relationship between FEMA and State
agencies.
One of the things that I hope you are going to look at
carefully is the emergency response capacities of the States in
terms of how well they are organized. I remember when I became
governor that one of the first things we did was to look and
see if the counties in our State had their own emergency
management capacities, and it was interesting that the ones
that did when we had the floods and other things that occurred,
they were able to deal with them responsibly and create
partners with us and with the Federal Government.
I will never forget one that I had where no one seemed to
know what was going on and we finally turned it over to the
State Highway Patrol captain who was on the scene who seemed to
know more about what was going on than others. So I think that
is a big challenge for you to see how well these States are
organized to interface with FEMA.
The other thing that we talked about was the issue of human
capital, and again underscoring the fact that we know that by
2004 at least one-third of the people in your shop will be
eligible to retire and another 22 percent will be eligible for
early retirement. Unfortunately, you really have no time to
prepare for that because you never know when you are going to
get hit. It could happen tomorrow, then you are going to have
to respond. So that is an issue that I know you are looking at.
As we talked earlier, you are fortunate in that of all
these new applicants seeking jobs in the administration over
the Internet, 10 percent of them would like to work in your
agency. So it says a lot for that agency and what Mr. Witt did
there and I feel very good about the fact that you are willing
to come to Washington and take on this major responsibility and
we look forward to working with you. Thank you, sir.
Chairman Thompson. Thank you very much.
Senator Akaka, do you have any opening comments?
OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR AKAKA
Senator Akaka. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I want to
join my colleagues in welcoming you to the Senate, Mr.
Allbaugh, and also your wife, Diane.
Mr. Allbaugh. Thank you.
Senator Akaka. I also want to tell you that it was a
pleasure to meet with you and to discuss your vision for FEMA.
Mr. Allbaugh. Thank you.
Senator Akaka. No one needs to remind you that you will be
following the footsteps of a big man, as was mentioned.
However, it is no joke when I say that your predecessor, James
Witt, transformed FEMA into a top-notch organization that won
the praise of those it serves, the people of America. I also,
in that light, mention that we look upon you, also, as a big
man coming into the job.
As you know, I represent a State that is celebrated for
untold natural beauty resulting from its geographical location
and geological makeup. Even so, Hawaii is vulnerable to many
natural disasters--hurricanes, volcanic eruptions, tsunamis or
tidal waves, torrential rains and flooding, earthquakes, and
even wildfires.
FEMA has done a tremendous job in responding to Hawaii's
disasters, most recently helping residents in the wake of a
November storm that left some areas with over three feet of
rain in a 24-hour period on the Island of Hawaii. FEMA
personnel were there to help the Big Island residents cope with
the $40 million worth of damages to homes, bridges, and roads.
Helping the folks in Hawaii is just one example of FEMA's
responsibilities in supporting the Nation in responding to
natural disasters. FEMA also works with the States in preparing
for homeland attacks and is the lead agency for disaster
mitigation. As such, I urge FEMA to be in the forefront of
cross-utilization of existing and emerging technologies. I
commend the inter-agency cooperation, that exists and which was
very clear in Hawaii's last disaster. FEMA has demonstrated
through Project Impact, both of which utilize NASA satellite
imaging data to help predict natural hazards and modify
floodplain maps.
Along the same line, I believe it would be beneficial to
the Nation if FEMA joined with the U.S. Geological Survey and
the Department of the Interior in working with DoD on the
Hazard Support System. This program monitors wildfires,
volcanic activity, using existing environmental and ballistic
missile warning satellites. I look forward to working with you,
Mr. Allbaugh, and FEMA on these issues that I believe hold so
much promise for all of us.
Again, thank you for being with us this morning and I wish
you well.
Mr. Allbaugh. Thank you, Senator. I appreciate it.
Chairman Thompson. Thank you very much.
Senator Cochran.
OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR COCHRAN
Senator Cochran. Mr. Chairman, I am glad to join others in
welcoming Joe Allbaugh to our hearing this morning and
congratulating him on his nomination for this job for which he
is obviously very well qualified. I look forward to working
closely with him as he directs this important agency in our
government.
Chairman Thompson. Thank you, Senator. Thank you very much.
Senator Carnahan, I do not believe I have had the
opportunity to welcome you to the Committee yet, so welcome. We
are delighted to have you. Do you have any preliminary
comments.
OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR CARNAHAN
Senator Carnahan. Thank you,, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Allbaugh, I
want to welcome you to this Committee. As you know, Missourians
are not unfamiliar with natural disasters. Just 8 years ago, in
1993, we experienced one of the worst natural disasters in
Missouri history. Flood waters ravaged nearly every corner of
our State and many hundreds of Missourians were left homeless.
Countless businesses were shut down temporarily, and
unfortunately, some of them for good. Damage estimates exceeded
the $1 billion mark and it took years to recover.
I can still remember watching from our residence at the
governor's mansion as the water was rising day by day, breaking
through the strong levees on the Missouri River, creeping over
pasture land, and covering all but the rooftops of the hangars
at our local airport. Ripping up the only highway into town,
and spreading like an ocean onto the bluffs a couple miles
away. The visual impact was overwhelming, but the hardest thing
to deal with was the personal loss, the human suffering. The
pain was so real and so deep.
But Missourians are a resilient and resourceful people and
communities came together, first to respond and then to
rebuild. Our governments at the local, State, and Federal
levels worked seamlessly to provide assistance during the
crisis, and then to recover for the long term. Families moved
back when it was safe to do so or they moved on to higher
ground when it was not. The water subsided and life did,
indeed, go on.
I took so much with me from that experience. Far too much
to share with you today during this hearing. But in the context
of considering your nomination to head up this critical agency,
the key lesson that I learned was the importance of inter-
governmental cooperation. Without question, the cooperation
between the various levels of government made a dramatic
difference in our ability to respond. Communication was
streamlined, resources flowed relatively quickly, and most
important, we provided comfort to the victims who were scared
and needed assurance that they would receive help.
In Missouri, we benefitted from a talented and decisive
director of our State Emergency Management Agency. We also
benefitted from the leadership of James Lee Witt at the Federal
level. I give his tenure at FEMA high marks from the strong
relationship he maintained with State directors to his focus,
mitigating the effects of disasters, and his reform of the
agency. Given your background and commitment, I have every
reason to believe that you will continue that same high
standard.
It has been my experience that people are often critical of
government, and sometimes rightly so. But in times of crisis,
people naturally turn to our government for the assistance that
only governments are equipped to provide. And they expect our
government to respond quickly and effectively and
compassionately. Your job, therefore, is extremely important.
Not only will your actions impact the lives of thousands of
Americans who have suffered through great tragedy, but it will
also play a large role in determining the confidence and the
faith that citizens have in our government.
I would like to leave with you the words of Oliver
Goldsmith, who said, ``The greatest object in the universe is a
good person struggling with adversity. Yet, there is still a
greater one, and that is the good person who comes to relieve
it.'' My best wishes to you.
Chairman Thompson. Thank you, ma'am.
Senator Domenici.
OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR DOMENICI
Senator Domenici. Mr. Chairman, first of all, I want to
thank you for expediting these hearings. I think it is
imperative that we get Joe Allbaugh in that position as quickly
as possible and your hearings are going to accommodate that.
I am presiding over a Budget Committee hearing and will not
be able to stay, but I would, with your concurrence, Mr.
Chairman, I want to just do two things. I want to welcome you
and tell you that my review of your record and my talk with you
in my office would indicate to me that the President has chosen
wisely. I wish you well.
Chairman Thompson. Thank you.
Senator Domenici. It is a very tough job, no question about
it.
And second, everybody talks about problems they have in
their State and I just want to tell you that this Congress was
extremely generous and appropriated over $600 million in
extraordinary special relief to the County of Los Alamos, New
Mexico, after the big fire that burned down 400 homes and did
untold amount of damage to businesses and burned down a lot of
our forest, etc. We did an extraordinary thing. We passed a
bill certain for them. We are giving all of them damages
because the Federal Government started this fire. It was a fire
started by somebody running a park adjacent to Los Alamos. It
was a controlled burn and done according to everyone that
looked at it, improperly and it burned down about $700 million
worth of assets, homes and the like.
I am not very happy about what is happening to that project
under FEMA right now. Maybe it is because James Lee Witt is
gone and it is not under control, but I would ask you if you
would particularly look at that from the standpoint of whether
we are spending too much money on administration, whether the
delays are justified in terms of coming up with the conclusions
required by law. We required certain things of the agency and
they have not been done yet and they only have a couple of
weeks to do them, and I am kind of wondering why.
So I guess, generally, I am going to ask you or lay before
you that you take a look at that with your best people in order
to expedite it and see that fairness and the statutory desires
and the statutory goals are met. I am sure you will do that,
and it is good for me to have an opportunity to tell you about
it publicly. After you are in there for a while, I would
appreciate hearing from you with reference to this issue.
Mr. Allbaugh. I will be happy to do that, Senator.
Senator Domenici. And I will have a signed letter on your
desk when you become the head man. It will be waiting for you
there. Thank you very much.
Mr. Allbaugh. Thank you, sir.
Chairman Thompson. Thank you very much.
Mr. Allbaugh, do you have a statement that you would like
to make?
TESTIMONY OF JOE M. ALLBAUGH\1\ TO BE DIRECTOR OF THE FEDERAL
EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT AGENCY (FEMA)
Mr. Allbaugh. Mr. Chairman and Members, I do have a
statement, but in the interest of time and not running the risk
of wanting to offend anybody, I would prefer not to read it to
you and just have it submitted, without objection, for the
record.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
\1\ The prepared statement of Mr. Allbaugh appears in the Appendix
on page 21.
Biographical and financial information appear in the Appendix on
page 24.
Pre-hearing questions and responses appear in the Appendix on
pages 33
Post-hearing questions and responses appear in the Appendix on
pages 47.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chairman Thompson. It will be part of the record.
Mr. Allbaugh. I would like to make a few comments, though,
if you do not mind. First, I would like to thank Senators Gramm
and Hutchison. Texas could not be represented by two finer
individuals. I am honored that they came this morning to
introduce me.
Second, the President nominated me to this position because
of our close relationship over the last 7 years. Then-Governor
Bush and I, his chief of staff, worked diligently in handling
nine Presidential disaster declarations during that time
period. I know firsthand that it is very important for State
Governments as well as the Federal Government to act swiftly,
as Senator Carnahan said, with the full resources that are
available at our disposal.
Based upon our relationship and knowing exactly the kind of
information that the President will need to make disaster
decisions, I believe I am well suited for this job. It is a
good fit. I am a doer. I consider the agency a doing agency and
I am honored to have been nominated.
Many people have alluded to James Lee Witt this morning. I
was very fortunate to get to know James Lee Witt when I was the
Chief of Staff for Governor Bush. He was the FEMA Director, as
you know, and he did an outstanding job. I think the country
owes him a debt of gratitude for his service over the last 8
years.
Last, I would like to thank the Committee, also, for making
time for me to appear this morning, and for your staff's work
in preparation for this hearing. I would be happy to entertain
any questions, should you have any.
Chairman Thompson. All right. Thank you very much. As I
indicated earlier, the Committee submitted some substantive
pre-hearing questions to the nominee and the nominee has also
met with Committee staff to discuss a variety of issues of
Congressional interest regarding FEMA. Your written responses
to the questions will be made a part of the record
I will start my questioning with questions we ask of all
nominees. Is there anything that you are aware of in your
background which might present a conflict of interest with the
duties of the office to which you have been nominated?
Mr. Allbaugh. No, sir.
Chairman Thompson. Do you know of anything personal or
otherwise that would in any way prevent you from fully and
honorably discharging the responsibilities as the Director of
FEMA?
Mr. Allbaugh. No, sir.
Chairman Thompson. Do you agree without reservation to
respond to any reasonable summons to appear and testify before
any duly constituted Committee of Congress if you are
confirmed?
Mr. Allbaugh. I do.
Chairman Thompson. All right. Thank you very much.
I think that you can see from the fact that we have several
Senators here this morning at your confirmation hearing, which
is not always the case, your area is where we really live, so
many of us. I was noticing Tennessee has had five tornados
during the last 6 years, in addition to other problems. So many
of us know that at one time or another we are going to have to
work with you. That may not be good news for you, but it is
important to us, and I am sure several people will have
questions concerning those activities.
I want to concentrate on something a little bit different
regarding this Committee's responsibility which has to do with
some of the management issues that we face. On the Results Act
issue, have you become somewhat familiar with the Results Act--
--
Mr. Allbaugh. Somewhat, sir.
Chairman Thompson [continuing]. And the fact that what we
are trying to do nowadays is try to get departments and
agencies to plan for results, to plan for outputs instead of
just inputs, and to figure out ways in which we can measure
those things and report them every year. FEMA has received high
marks recently for its renewed emphasis on management. In a
recent report, the Mercada Center wrote that, ``the experience
of the Federal Emergency Management Agency confirms that it is
possible for a Federal agency to achieve major improvements in
both performance and cost effectiveness. Such achievements
resulted not from a single silver bullet but from a collection
of management actions that transformed a bureaucratic process-
driven organization into a responsive result-driven
organization.''
The Mercada Center attributes this change largely to the
performance-based management that is now in place at FEMA. I
take it that you plan to sustain this management improvement
and maintain the organization's role as a model for other
agencies. We spend an awful lot of time criticizing an awful
lot of agencies--the high-risk list and failure to comply with
the Results Act and so forth. FEMA is one of the few bright
spots, frankly, that I have seen lately. But again, that is
mixed news to you. You have something that you have to live up
to and then build on, and I take it that you understand that
and plan to renew the commitment to the implementation of the
Results Act.
Mr. Allbaugh. I do, indeed. It is my understanding that
FEMA in recent years has made great strides in the area of
accountability. I am one that is a stickler for accountability.
I like to align responsibility with authority, and quite
frankly, the person that I would hold most responsible for that
right off the bat would be myself. I will measure up or muster
out, as they say. I know that the agency has come a great
distance and has received high marks and I would like to review
that act and continue that policy.
Chairman Thompson. I think the key to good results, as
proven by other agencies, too, is accountability--you put
somebody on it who is primarily responsible for it under you
who is good at it and that you hold them accountable and that
you become accountable yourself.
There is another area where the news is not quite as good.
As you know, FEMA relies heavily on information technology to
meet its operational goals. In fact, all agencies, of course,
rely more and more on it. Earlier this year, we conducted a
review of Federal agency compliance with the Clinger-Cohen Act
and found that many agencies were not complying with the law
and were not conducting cost-benefit analysis before investing
in computer systems, and as you know, FEMA relies heavily upon
computers to provide services to disaster victims. Yet FEMA
sometimes seems to be making less than a full attempt to comply
with this information technology law.
In fact, the report that we commissioned found that FEMA
does not have a capital planning and investment process in
place, which is required by the Clinger-Cohen, and, therefore,
it is not conducting cost-benefit analysis before investing in
its computer systems. Will you take a look at that and make a
renewed commitment? This is an area where you can show, I
think, marked improvement.
Mr. Allbaugh. I will be happy to take a look at it. I am
not familiar with the specifics, but I know IT all across the
world is an important component of our survival these days and
I will report back to you as soon as I can.
Chairman Thompson. All right. I would appreciate that,
because we are a little behind the curve in that area.
Finally, more than 28 government agencies are involved in
some aspect of the response and recovery phases of disaster
response recovery. Some of those include the Department of
Treasury, Department of Health and Human Services, Department
of Housing and Urban Development, and others. Many times, the
coordination between and among these agencies is not efficient
or effective. Everybody looks to FEMA, but as you know, there
are a lot of cooks in the kitchen sometimes.
How would you characterize the inter-agency coordination as
you see it and are there phases--as you know, there are
basically four phases, preparedness, response, recovery, and
mitigation--for which you believe the need for coordination is
more significant?
Mr. Allbaugh. I would imagine that there is always room for
improvement from top to bottom and across the lines of
authority among all the agencies. I would take the initiative
myself to reach out to those agencies and make sure that there
is a two-way dialogue and ongoing constant communication among
those agencies so there would be in time of need close
cooperation for those resources that we will call upon.
I am not particularly familiar with how the structure works
right at the moment, but I can assure you I will get my teeth
right into it as soon as I have the ability to get over there
and I will also report back on that coordination.
Chairman Thompson. I appreciate that.
Senator Lieberman.
Senator Lieberman. Thanks, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Allbaugh, let me indicate that two of my colleagues who
are unable to be here this morning, Senator Levin and Senator
Torricelli, will have post-hearing questions for you. Senator
Levin has already given his to me and we will convey them to
the folks who are working with you. Senator Torricelli said
that he would have his this afternoon and we will get those to
you as quickly as possible.
Mr. Allbaugh. Yes, sir.
Senator Lieberman. I would appreciate as quick a response
as you can.
Mr. Allbaugh. You bet.
Senator Lieberman. Mr. Allbaugh, I think you know that
there is a lawsuit in Texas which has raised some controversy
and questions which some have directed toward your nomination
and I wanted to ask you some questions about it here. I know
the Committee has asked you some before the hearing, and I
appreciate your cooperation in answering those, but I think it
is important to get some questions and answers on the record.
For the record, as I am sure you know, a lawsuit is pending
in Texas regarding an investigation by the Texas Funeral
Services Commission into the activities of a major funeral home
corporation called Service Corporation International, SCI. The
lawsuit alleges that the Executive Director of the Funeral
Commission, Ms. Eliza May, was wrongfully terminated because of
her role in the investigation of SCI, the funeral corporation.
Some of the allegations in this lawsuit involve incidents that
occurred during meetings and conversations in which you were
involved as Governor Bush's Chief of Staff.
I want to ask you a few questions about that now and I am
going to be as direct as possible. Did you ever try, as is
alleged, to stop the Funeral Service Commission investigation
of SCI and its related entities from going forward?
Mr. Allbaugh. No, sir, I did not.
Senator Lieberman. If you want to add any more as we go on,
I invite that, but I will go through the questions. Did you
ever limit or try to limit the scope of the records or other
materials that the Texas Funeral Services Commission was
seeking from SCI or its related entities as part of this
investigation?
Mr. Allbaugh. No, sir, I did not.
Senator Lieberman. Did you ever speak to Ms. May about this
investigation or related events in a threatening manner?
Mr. Allbaugh. No, sir, I did not. I invited her to my
office, as I did with a lot of executive directors as a part of
my role as chief of staff and we had a conversation, albeit a
brief conversation, but I would not do any such thing.
Senator Lieberman. Have your actions in this matter ever
been the subject of any ethics, criminal, or similar type of
investigation?
Mr. Allbaugh. No, sir, they have not.
Senator Lieberman. And I understand that though you were
mentioned in the lawsuit, you are not a named defendant in the
lawsuit, is that correct?
Mr. Allbaugh. That is my understanding, as well.
Senator Lieberman. Let me ask you, finally, having asked
those specific questions, if you would now, just for the
record, to the best of your recollection, state the nature of
your involvement in the situation in the case that is the basis
for the lawsuit that I have mentioned.
Mr. Allbaugh. I was asked by a State Senator from Houston
to facilitate a meeting, actually, attend a meeting he was
having on a Friday, I believe, about 3 years ago. He had
invited representatives from the Texas Funeral Commission and
SCI to be in attendance. I told him I could not be in
attendance. In another part of the building, I was due to do
some things with Governor Bush and I could not leave. But I
offered up my office as a place to host the meeting. Everyone
congregated. I turned to Senator Whitmire, who was the Senator
who asked for the meeting, and I basically said, the show is
yours.
Senator Lieberman. Let me interrupt just for a moment. Do I
understand correctly that Senator Whitmire asked for the
meeting because he was concerned about the way in which the
Funeral Services Commission was going after SCI?
Mr. Allbaugh. The way he explained it to me was that there
were numerous documents that the Texas Funeral Service
Commission was after, and his constituents, SCI, were curious
in trying to figure out exactly what documents the Texas
Funeral Commission were after. That was the purpose of the
meeting, to try to bring some conclusion and finality as to
what they were after. I saw my role, quite frankly, no more
than a facilitator, which is something I did with great
regularity as the chief of staff when there were two parties
that had differing opinions about things.
Senator Lieberman. And what happened at the meeting?
Mr. Allbaugh. Probably 10, 12, or 15 people showed up. It
seemed like forever, and I brought the meeting to closure by
asking the Chairman of the Funeral Services Commission, who was
present, Dick McNeil, and his staff to ultimately provide a
list of materials that they were interested in obtaining from
SCI. They agreed to do that. They provided that later in the
afternoon after the meeting adjourned and that was the end of
it.
Senator Lieberman. Did you have any further contact with
the matter after that?
Mr. Allbaugh. I called the executive director, which was
normal course of business for me, to set up a meeting. I
noticed in the larger meeting with everyone present, she was
not really participating and it was a clear signal to me that
there might be something that this office needed to know about,
the governor's office. So I asked for a private meeting. She
came over and there was not really anything that she shared
with me. That was the end of the meeting and that was the last
time I spoke with her.
Senator Lieberman. And the tenor, the mood of that meeting
was business-like and----
Mr. Allbaugh. It was business-like, short, sweet, to the
point. Actually, she was non-participatory in any questions
that I asked except that she alluded to the fact that there
were several death threats against members of the commission
and I suggested to her that we needed that information as
quickly as possible to turn it over to the proper authorities,
the Texas Public Safety Department, and the Texas Rangers----
Senator Lieberman. Based on this case, she said----
Mr. Allbaugh. I beg your pardon?
Senator Lieberman. In her opinion, the death threats were
related to the investigation of SCI?
Mr. Allbaugh. That was her opinion, and I needed that
information to turn over to the proper authorities, the Texas
Rangers, for investigation.
Senator Lieberman. Did she ever provide you with that
information?
Mr. Allbaugh. Sir, she did not.
Senator Lieberman. And that was Ms. May, I gather?
Mr. Allbaugh. Yes, sir.
Senator Lieberman. And after that meeting, did you have
further involvement in this matter?
Mr. Allbaugh. Only one additional meeting. Chairman Dick
McNeil dropped by at his request to bring me an update as to
the status of things and that was my last involvement with this
entire issue.
Senator Lieberman. To the best of your recollection, what
was the nature of the investigation and how did it conclude?
Mr. Allbaugh. I believe there was a fine involved, which
has been appealed, and I really do not know that it has been
brought to closure, quite frankly.
Senator Lieberman. But the basic nature of the
investigation, presumably, was that there had been complaints
against the funeral home or the----
Mr. Allbaugh. As I understand it, there were complaints
against SCI for some type of educational practices. I really do
not know any more than that, and the basis for the
investigation by the Texas Funeral Commission was to get at the
core of those complaints.
Senator Lieberman. Is it a fact, to the best of your
knowledge, that Ms. May was sometime thereafter terminated as
Executive Director of the Funeral Services Commission?
Mr. Allbaugh. That is my understanding. I read about it in
the Austin American Statesman.
Senator Lieberman. Right. I am tempted to ask you whether
you believe everything you read in the Austin American
Statesman.
Mr. Allbaugh. Parts.
Senator Lieberman. Do you remember how soon after,
generally speaking, this series of events regarding SCI that
Ms. May was terminated?
Mr. Allbaugh. I want to say 5 or 6 months. I do not exactly
know. My meeting with Ms. May was in August 1998 and I think
she was terminated in early 1999.
Senator Lieberman. Did you have any involvement in the
commission's decisions that led to her termination?
Mr. Allbaugh. None whatsoever.
Senator Lieberman. So that what you are testifying today is
that the first time you heard about it was, to the best of your
recollection, when you read about it in the newspaper?
Mr. Allbaugh. That is exactly what I would say. The first
time I ever heard about her dismissal was reading about it in
the newspaper.
Senator Lieberman. Fine. Thanks, Mr. Allbaugh. I do not
have any further questions about that. I believe some of my
colleagues in some of the post-hearing questions may.
Mr. Allbaugh. Sure.
Senator Lieberman. Let me step back now from that and ask
you an open-ended question about the position for which you
have been nominated, and I understand that you have had
experience with FEMA from the State level. Coming in, what
would you say are the biggest challenges that are facing FEMA
today? What kind of priorities do you have as you contemplate
beginning this work?
Mr. Allbaugh. I think the biggest challenge is proper
training. There is nothing in the world that can replace
experience other than experience. Being prepared is probably
its most important goal at FEMA, to handle disasters as they
arise. An ongoing, aggressive training program, not only at the
national level but at the State level, would be one of my top
priorities. I know there is close coordination right now, but I
believe there probably needs to be a little more attention paid
to training.
Senator Lieberman. OK. The State emergency management
directors in the Northeast have raised a concern regarding the
costs that State and local jurisdictions incur in conducting
rescue and recovery operations after a major rail or aircraft
disaster is what they are thinking of here. A number of these
accidents have occurred in recent years, such as the TWA Flight
800 and Egyptian Air Flight 990, and while the Federal
Government has eventually reimbursed those expenses, this
repayment has usually only come months later through a special
Congressional appropriation. There is no regularized process
under which disaster assistance is provided to States or
municipalities handling these accidents. I am sure you are
aware of that. Unfortunately, this can be a real burden for a
small government that counts on that money to pay local
expenses.
I note that FEMA's jurisdiction does not now include rail
or aircraft accidents as major disasters, which would allow
States to apply for this assistance. I do not know if you have
ever given this any thought, but I wonder, if you are
confirmed, would you be open to working with the States and
local governments to finding a solution to this problem either
through an expansion of FEMA's jurisdiction or some other
means?
Mr. Allbaugh. I am not familiar with any particular rail or
air disaster, Senator, but I would be happy to take a look at
the issue, if confirmed and when confirmed, and report back to
you as soon as I could and see what we might be able to work
out insofar as expanding FEMA's focus, if necessary.
Senator Lieberman. Fine. The final question is really one
that I would bring to your attention, and I doubt that you have
had a chance to think about it, but it may be coming in your
direction. If you have any first reactions to it, I would
welcome them.
A few weeks ago, a blue ribbon panel chaired by former
Senators Gary Hart and Warren Rudman issued a draft final
report, and this was about national security threats we are
going to face and how to best deal with them. I want to quote
from one of their findings. ``The combination of unconventional
weapons proliferation with the persistence of international
terrorism will end the relative invulnerability of the American
homeland to catastrophic attack. A direct attack against
American citizens on American soil is likely over the next
quarter century,'' from the Hart-Rudman Commission.
The report raises the concern that our Nation has no
coherent or integrated governmental structures to prepare for
the possibility of such an attack and suggests the formation of
a new agency that would have responsibility for planning,
coordinating, and protecting our citizens and our critical
infrastructure. Now, naturally, some of these concerns are not
dissimilar to what FEMA does now, although FEMA's work is, of
course, related to natural disasters.
I wonder if you have any first thoughts on the commission's
alarm, and if not, I understand, of course, and I urge you to
think about it and, if you are confirmed, get involved in the
governmental response to this concern because I think it is
real.
Mr. Allbaugh. The only thoughts I would have is that I am
familiar with the report, the Hart-Rudman report, as well as
the Gilmore Commission reports, and I share your concern as
well as many others on the threat of domestic terrorism. There
has to be an apparatus where there is an authority, an entity
that is ultimately responsible for implementation at the
appropriate time and I would love to have some time to review
those reports and respond back to you, Senator.
Senator Lieberman. I would appreciate that. Thank you very
much.
Mr. Allbaugh. Thank you.
Senator Lieberman. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman Thompson. Thank you. Senator Cochran.
Senator Cochran. Mr. Allbaugh, I noticed when you mentioned
one of your high priorities would be improved training of
personnel at FEMA, and I applaud you for that because if some
experiences that we have had in my State between the Federal
staff of FEMA and local officials. There have been
misunderstandings. Some local officials have reported that
depending on who they talked with at the Federal agency,
conflicting information about the assistance FEMA would provide
for the repair of damaged structures, public buildings, and
roads and bridges--following a federally-approved disaster--was
given.
I hope that you will follow through with that priority
because I think there can be improvements made in the way the
Federal staff interact with local officials to try to keep
misunderstandings to a minimum. I know there are bound to be
some, and human error is going to happen from time to time. But
this has been a problem that I have had brought to my attention
in my State and wonder how you plan to go about trying to
minimize that difficulty in the future.
Mr. Allbaugh. Well, I agree with you, Senator. There will
always be mistakes made and the name of the game is to minimize
mistakes. So the best way to keep those misinformation items to
a minimum is a two-way dialogue between the States and FEMA,
whether it is at the regional office or at the national office,
and I would work hard to achieve that.
Senator Cochran. One thing that has been created is a new
program, the Firefighters Assistance Grant Program, that would
provide some Federal assistance for local governments and
communities for emergency equipment and vehicles, firefighting
equipment in particular, and the funding is going to be made
available, as I understand the new law and new appropriations
language, through the U.S. Fire Administration. I noticed in
your opening statement, which we have accepted for the record,
you mentioned improving the administrative strength of the U.S.
Fire Administration. Is this an agency that comes directly
under FEMA? How would you interact with that agency?
Mr. Allbaugh. It is my understanding it does.
Senator Cochran. One of the things that we hope will be
done is that those communities that would like to have the
benefit of this program can look forward to early action by the
administration to make available these new items of equipment
for firefighting and, through training and response programs,
help communities prepare to minimize the damage from natural
disasters., I commend you for your making a point to emphasize
the enhancement of the capabilities of the U.S. Fire
Administration. I wish you well in that.
Mr. Allbaugh. Thank you, sir.
Senator Cochran. And if you need any additional funds for
that, let us know about that. I hear that OMB is going through
the budget request and making it pretty hard on anyone looking
for additional funds, and may be looking to rescind some funds
that have been previously appropriated. I hope you will weigh
in real hard to try to keep any cuts from occurring in the U.S.
Fire Administration's program that would benefit local
communities.
Mr. Allbaugh. I will be happy to look into that.
Senator Cochran. My last question has to do with flood
zones and mapping. FEMA has a special responsibility in this
area, maintaining and updating flood maps to identify areas and
communities that are in a flood zone which would require
certain flood insurance protection of local owners of property.
This program has generally been beneficial in our State, but
some have been put at a disadvantage financially when they buy
a house, for example, that was not in a flood zone but then the
new map comes out and it shows that it is in a flood zone and
the property values decline. The requirements for insurance
purchases impose new financial obligations.
The reason I bring this up is because there is still a lot
of mapping that is yet to be done and completed, and in a lot
of areas of the country, this has been slow in being finalized.
So I hope that you will be able, as the new administrator, to
give a higher priority to completing these flood maps so that
people who are worried about what their future is and how their
property values are going to be affected will get some
expeditious attention and we can see that program completed at
an early date.
Mr. Allbaugh. The program will be a high priority for me.
Senator Cochran. Thank you very much. Thanks, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman Thompson. Thank you. Senator Akaka.
Senator Akaka. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
Before I go on with my questions, I want to thank you, Mr.
Allbaugh, for your responses to questions regarding the Texas
State Funeral Commission.
As Senator Lieberman mentioned, there have been many recent
proposals to reorganize the Federal agencies with respect to
national preparedness and terrorism response. These include
establishing a new executive office for combatting terrorism
and creating a special assistant for homeland issues on the
staff of the Vice President or a new cabinet-level position.
The Hart-Rudman Commission proposes building a National
Homeland Security Agency upon the capabilities of FEMA, an
agency they recognize as performing well in recent years,
especially in response to national disasters. The new agency
would retain and strengthen FEMA as a core element of its
organizational structure. Finally, to fully complement the
different activities that a National Homeland Security Agency
would need to perform, the commission recommends transferring
the Customs Service, Border Patrol, and Coast Guard to the new
agency while preserving them as distinct entities.
How do you think that such a restructuring would take place
and potentially affect FEMA as a whole, especially the non-
national preparedness activities of FEMA, such as flood plain
mapping and national hazards research?
Mr. Allbaugh. I am not sure that I know enough to comment
intelligently about the creation of a new agency, Senator. I
would love to get my arms around that particular subject and
study Hart-Rudman a little bit longer, quite frankly, before I
respond to you, but I would be happy to get back to you as soon
as I do that.
Senator Akaka. Thank you. We would certainly like to hear
from you on that.
I would like to discuss biological threats in a little more
detail because of the special issues they present. Unlike other
terrorist attacks, a biological weapon threat is not finite or
overt. It may take days or weeks before the health care
community realizes that there is a problem and even longer
before the source of the event, whether natural epidemic or
bioweapon, is known.
FEMA's Rapid Response Information System is a good start in
getting Federal, State, and local emergency responders prepared
for responding to a weapon of mass destruction event. However,
attending physicians and nurses are not typical emergency
respondents. According to a presentation at a recent
bioterrorism conference, there are too few doctors aware of the
bioweapons threat and fewer hospital administrators willing to
implement programs to prepare for what they perceive to be a
very unlikely event.
My question to you is, how can FEMA improve awareness among
these health care providers?
Mr. Allbaugh. Senator, there is an opportunity to reach out
to the professionals who know this area better than anyone else
and I would look to include them in an ongoing dialogue with
FEMA if I am confirmed. Additionally, you should know, I spoke
with Senator Mikulski earlier in the week about this particular
subject. It is a high priority for her, as well, and I would
like to be in a position to respond to both you and Senator
Mikulski at the appropriate time on this subject.
Senator Akaka. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Thank
you, Mr. Allbaugh.
Chairman Thompson. Thank you very much.
As Senator Lieberman said, there will be written questions
submitted. Perhaps we can get those in by the end of the day.
Senator Lieberman, do you think that is a possibility?
Senator Lieberman. That is my hope, Mr. Chairman. I have
Senator Levin's now and Senator Torricelli has indicated he
would have his in to us by this afternoon. We will get them
right to you.
Chairman Thompson. The quicker you turn that around, the
quicker we can operate.
Senator Lieberman, do you have any further questions?
Senator Lieberman. I do not, Mr. Chairman. I thank the
witness.
Chairman Thompson. I thank the witness. I appreciate the
hearing today. We will move on your nomination as soon as we
can, and good luck to you.
Mr. Allbaugh. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, Senators.
I look forward to working with all of you.
Senator Lieberman. Thank you.
Chairman Thompson. Thank you very much. We are adjourned.
[Whereupon, at 11:35 a.m., the Committee was adjourned.]
A P P E N D I X
----------
[GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0751.001
[GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0751.002
[GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0751.003
[GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0751.004
[GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0751.005
[GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0751.006
[GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0751.007
[GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0751.008
[GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0751.009
[GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0751.010
[GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0751.011
[GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0751.012
[GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0751.013
[GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0751.014
[GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0751.015
[GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0751.016
[GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0751.017
[GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0751.018
[GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0751.019
[GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0751.020
[GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0751.021
[GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0751.022
[GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0751.023
[GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0751.024
[GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0751.025
[GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0751.026
[GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0751.027
[GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0751.028
[GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0751.029
[GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0751.030
[GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0751.031
[GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0751.032
[GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0751.033
[GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0751.034
[GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0751.035
[GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0751.036
[GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0751.037
[GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0751.038
[GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0751.039
[GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0751.040
[GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0751.041
[GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0751.042
[GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0751.043