[Senate Hearing 106-554]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
S. Hrg. 106-554
NOMINATIONS OF ALAN C. KESSLER AND CAROL WALLER POPE
=======================================================================
HEARING
BEFORE THE
COMMITTEE ON
GOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS
UNITED STATES SENATE
ONE HUNDRED SIXTH CONGRESS
SECOND SESSION
ON THE
NOMINATIONS OF ALAN C. KESSLER, OF PENNSYLVANIA, TO BE A GOVERNOR OF
THE U.S. POSTAL SERVICE, AND CAROL WALLER POPE, OF WASHINGTON, DC, TO
BE A MEMBER OF THE FEDERAL LABOR RELATIONS AUTHORITY
__________
MARCH 30, 2000
__________
Printed for the use of the Committee on Governmental Affairs
__________
U.S. GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE
WASHINGTON : 2000
_______________________________________________________________________
For sale by the Superintendent of Documents, Congressional Sales Office
U.S. Government Printing Office, Washington, DC 20402
COMMITTEE ON GOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS
FRED THOMPSON, Tennessee, Chairman
WILLIAM V. ROTH, Jr., Delaware JOSEPH I. LIEBERMAN, Connecticut
TED STEVENS, Alaska CARL LEVIN, Michigan
SUSAN M. COLLINS, Maine DANIEL K. AKAKA, Hawaii
GEORGE V. VOINOVICH, Ohio RICHARD J. DURBIN, Illinois
PETE V. DOMENICI, New Mexico ROBERT G. TORRICELLI, New Jersey
THAD COCHRAN, Mississippi MAX CLELAND, Georgia
ARLEN SPECTER, Pennsylvania JOHN EDWARDS, North Carolina
JUDD GREGG, New Hampshire
Hannah S. Sistare, Staff Director and Counsel
Dan G. Blair, Senior Counsel
Michael L. Loesch, Counsel,
International Security, Proliferation, and Federal Services
Subcommittee
Joyce A. Rechtschaffen, Minority Staff Director and Counsel
Peter A. Ludgin, Minority Professional Staff Member
Nanci E. Langley, Minority Deputy Staff Director,
International Security, Proliferation, and Federal Services
Subcommittee
Darla D. Cassell, Administrative Clerk
C O N T E N T S
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Opening statements:
Page
Senator Cochran.............................................. 1
Senator Stevens.............................................. 4
Senator Akaka................................................ 11
WITNESSES
Thursday, March 30, 2000
Hon. Joseph R. Biden, Jr., a U.S. Senator from the State of
Delaware....................................................... 1
Hon. Rick Santorum, a U.S. Senator from the State of Pennsylvania 3
Hon. Eleanor Holmes Norton, a Delegate in Congress from the
District of Columbia........................................... 4
Alan C. Kessler, of Pennsylvania, nominated to be a Governor of
the U.S. Postal Service........................................ 6
Carol Waller Pope, of Washington, DC, nominated to be a Member of
the Federal Labor Relations Authority.......................... 8
Alphabetical List of Witnesses
Kessler, Alan C.:
Testimony.................................................... 6
Biographical information..................................... 15
Pre-hearing questionnaire.................................... 40
Pope, Carol Waller:
Testimony.................................................... 8
Biographical information..................................... 61
Pre-hearing questionnaire.................................... 71
NOMINATIONS OF ALAN C. KESSLER AND CAROL WALLER POPE
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THURSDAY, MARCH 30, 2000
U.S. Senate,
Committee on Governmental Affairs,
Washington, DC.
The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:02 a.m., in
room SD-342, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Thad Cochran
presiding.
Present: Senators Cochran and Stevens.
Senator Cochran [presiding.] The Committee will please come
to order.
Today we are pleased to have a hearing on the nominations
of Alan Kessler to be Governor of the U.S. Postal Service and
Carol Waller Pope to be a Member of the Federal Labor Relations
Authority.
Mr. Kessler is nominated to serve a 9-year term as a
Governor of the U.S. Postal Service, and Ms. Pope is nominated
to serve a 5-year term as a Member of the Federal Labor
Relations Authority.
We welcome you both as well as those who have come to
introduce you to the Committee this morning.
At this point, I am going to recognize the senior Senator
from Delaware--well, he is the senior Senator present from
Delaware--Mr. Biden, my good friend, and then, Rick Santorum,
the distinguished Senator from Pennsylvania, who are both here
to introduce Mr. Kessler.
Senator Cochran. Senator Biden.
TESTIMONY OF THE HON. JOSEPH R. BIDEN, JR., A U.S. SENATOR FROM
THE STATE OF DELAWARE
Senator Biden. Well, thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
As your colleague who is among the most senior of senior
Senators from Alaska knows, I am the second-most senior junior
Senator in the United States, trumped only by Strom Thurmond's
seniority over Senator Hollings. But I am happy and have been
satisfied in that position for a long time, and I am honored to
serve with Bill Roth and to serve, ``under'' Bill Roth.
Mr. Chairman and Senator Stevens, I have the honor of
introducing Alan Kessler, who is accompanied by his wife Gail
and his parents, Alan and Jo, who reside in my home State of
Delaware. I know you might ask, ``Why is a Senator from
Delaware speaking on behalf of a resident of Philadelphia?''
Well, aside from Alan being a native of my State, as most of
you know, the geographic distance between my home town of
Wilmington, Delaware and Philadelphia is only a few short
miles, and because of this, as Senator Specter and Senator
Santorum both know, I sometimes get involved in matters that I
maybe should not be involved in in Pennsylvania, and they
sometimes get involved in matters to help me in my State of
Delaware. So it has been a cooperative arrangement which I have
enjoyed.
I have known Alan Kessler for about 10 years, Mr. Chairman,
and aside from being an all-around good guy and native
Delawarean, he is a graduate of my alma mater as well. He went
on to earn his juris doctorate from the University of Maryland
Law School.
Alan has been extremely involved in the Philadelphia
community. He was a Township Commissioner in Lower Merion
Township, which is about as big as my entire State in
population, literally and not figuratively, from 1988 through
1999. In 1992, Alan was co-chair of the Mayor's Transition
Committee for Philadelphia Mayor Ed Rendell, and he is a past
member of the Philadelphia City Planning Commission.
In addition, in 1994, he was appointed by the President to
serve as Vice Chairman of the Presidential Congressional
Commission on Risk Assessment and Risk Management, and served
in that post until 1998.
Currently, he is not only a member of the Executive
Committee of Philadelphia 2000, but also a member of both the
Executive Committee of Central Philadelphia Development
Corporation and the Board of Directors of the Philadelphia
Industrial Development Corporation.
And, as if all this were not enough, he has been appointed
by the Pennsylvania Supreme Court to serve as chairman of the
Continuing Legal Education Board.
Finally, Mr. Chairman, Alan is also somewhat of a legend in
the Philadelphia legal community due to the superb legal skills
that he has brought to some of the area's most notable legal
cases. He has represented clients ranging from major
corporations to local government, and he understands the value
of public service as well as the bottom line. This is an
important and unique function that he will bring, I think, to
the Postal Service Commission, which has a duty to serve all of
us at a low rate.
Alan is someone whom I know many residents of the
Philadelphia area have a great deal of respect and admiration
for, and I have every confidence that the savvy and talent that
he brings will make him an excellent addition to the Postal
Service Board of Governors. Why he would want the job is beyond
my comprehension, but I am glad he does. Nine years sounded
like a sentence you were reading out. But it is, as we all
know, an incredibly important responsibility; it is something
that the public has come to take for granted as if it is
automatic. As a matter of fact, with the experience of the four
of us in here, I think we could probably all agree that the
public still thinks we somehow control all aspects of the
Postal Service when in fact we control very little of it. And
that is why I think it is so important that we pick people who
we believe will be able to bring professional credentials to
that responsibility, which will make one of the largest
operations in the world function well and at the lowest
possible cost to the consumer--in this case, our constituents.
There is more to say about Alan, but I will leave that to
others. Let me just suggest that I think this is a first-rate,
serious, professional nominee, and I want to thank--not that it
is my position to do so, and it may sound somewhat gratuitous
and I do not mean it that way--I want to thank Senator Santorum
for the way in which he has shepherded this along, and I thank
him for allowing me to go first.
I yield the floor.
Senator Cochran. Thank you very much, Senator Biden.
Senator Santorum.
TESTIMONY OF HON. RICK SANTORUM, A U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE
OF PENNSYLVANIA
Senator Santorum. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I always defer to my senior colleagues, and certainly, to
the very distinguished and terrific Member from Delaware, thank
you for being here for Alan and for supporting the nomination.
I support the nomination, and I will not go through all the
details. I think Joe covered them very adequately. Just let me
comment on a couple of them.
First, I think Joe's mention of understanding the bottom
line is very important. In Alan's work at one of the most
distinguished law firms in Philadelphia, Wolf Block--a major
law firm and an incredibly significant player in Philadelphia--
he has represented small companies, he has represented
entrepreneurs, he has represented larger companies, all in the
area of defense. Working with those companies, I think he has a
great understanding of that bottom line and an understanding of
business and how business works and how it works efficiently
and best, and that understanding from that perspective coupled
with, as I know the Senator from Mississippi understands, that
legal background, which is important to understand the
intricacies of how to deal with a variety of issues that are
going to come before the Postal Commission, I think are very,
very important.
Second, he has experience in the public sector. He is an
elected township commissioner. As Joe mentioned, Lower Merion
Township is one of the fastest-growing townships in
Pennsylvania. It abuts the City of Philadelphia. It is huge, it
is diverse, and it is a very complex political dynamic there,
and he represents that area as a commissioner, has held that
commission, and again, I think understands the responsibility
of public service in that regard as well as the other
appointments that he has had. He has also run for elected
office.
So I think Alan brings a very good breadth of experience,
of background, and of education that could be very helpful to
this commission.
As I commented earlier, the Postal Commission is probably
the least partisan commission I can think of, and someone who
has a good, solid background and understanding of business and
a bottom line, who has an understanding of the complexities of
law that you are going to have to deal with, plus the
understanding of public service, I think is very well-suited
for that.
So I heartily recommend him, and I want to thank you, Mr.
Chairman, in particular for your willingness to move forward
expeditiously with this hearing. You did so above and beyond
the call of duty, and I just want to thank you personally for
your great generosity in moving this nomination and this
hearing expeditiously. It is very much appreciated.
I also want to thank Senator Thompson for his work in
getting through the interviewing process and helping that along
the way.
So, thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Senator Cochran. Thank you, Senator Santorum, for your
eloquent statement as well. Thank you both.
I am going to now turn to Eleanor Holmes Norton, the
Delegate from the District of Columbia to the U.S. House of
Representatives, to introduce Carol Waller Pope.
TESTIMONY OF HON. ELEANOR HOLMES NORTON, A DELEGATE IN CONGRESS
FROM THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA
Ms. Norton. Thank you very much, Chairman Cochran.
It is a special pleasure for me to introduce Carol Waller
Pope, a distinguished citizen of this city who has earned her
reputation in the very agency to which she has been nominated
to be a member, the Federal Labor Relations Authority.
It is particularly gratifying to see a young lawyer work so
hard and move up the ranks, after having spent virtually her
entire career at the agency and having served with such
distinction that the President of the United States would
indeed name her a member of the Authority, itself.
As you are aware, this agency deals in a rarified and
specialized branch of labor law and labor management relations.
So, it is particularly helpful to have a member who has spent
virtually her entire career there and has encyclopedic
knowledge of the Authority and of the field.
Ms. Pope is particularly well-qualified by professional
reputation, by educational background and experience, and by
her demonstrated deep understanding of Federal labor-management
relations.
She is also well-qualified by virtue of her law degree from
Northeastern University Law School, her B.A. from Simmons
College on whose board she serves, and the additional courses
on industrial and labor relations she has taken at the Cornell
University.
It is with great pride that I recommend her to you and
believe that her distinguished career speaks for itself as to
why she was nominated.
Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
Senator Cochran. Thank you, Ms. Norton, for your presence
here this morning and for your introduction of our nominee.
Before we proceed further, I recognize the attendance of
our distinguished colleague Senator Stevens from Alaska and
will yield to him for any opening comments that he might desire
to make.
OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR STEVENS
Senator Stevens. This is a hard meeting for me, Mr.
Chairman. I am one of the coauthors of the Postal Reform Bill
that led to the creation of the Board of Governors.
I am disturbed to learn that if Mr. Kessler is confirmed,
there will be three members from Pennsylvania out of nine, and
as a matter of fact, a fourth was born in Pennsylvania. That
was supposed to be a national board that represents the entire
United States, and I am just going to have to reserve my
judgment on whether or not this is a proper thing to do, to
have four members who are supposed to guide the Postmaster
General and guide the operations of this enormous entity all
coming from the same State.
Thank you very much.
Senator Cochran. Thank you, Senator.
The rules of the Committee on Governmental Affairs require
that an inquiry be conducted into the experience,
qualifications, suitability and integrity of persons who are
nominated to serve in offices that are within the jurisdiction
of the Committee on Governmental Affairs.
The Committee has received from the nominees all of the
information that we were required to obtain. In addition, the
nominees have responded in writing to pre-hearing questions
submitted by the Committee concerning issues relevant to the
office to which they have been nominated.
We have received copies of the nominees' biographical
information and responses to questions that have been submitted
to them. These will be placed in the record as part of this
hearing and are available upon request.
The financial statements are available for inspection by
the public in the Committee office.
The staff of the Committee have reviewed all of this
information and in addition have examined the Financial
Disclosure Reports submitted by the Office of Government
Ethics.
The Committee's Ranking Member and I have reviewed the FBI
Background Investigation Reports.
The Committee rules require that all nominees be under oath
while testifying before the Committee on matters relating to
their suitability for office, including the policies and
programs that the nominees will pursue if confirmed. So at this
point, I will ask you both to stand and raise your right hand
to take the oath.
Do you solemnly swear to tell the truth, the whole truth,
and nothing but the truth, so help you, God?
Mr. Kessler. I do.
Ms. Pope. I do.
Senator Cochran. Please be seated.
I am going to allow each of you to make any statement or
comments that you would like to make and to introduce any
family members who are accompanying you. I met Mr. Kessler's
parents and wife before the hearing began.
Mr. Kessler, I am going to recognize you first to introduce
your family and make any opening statement that you would like
to before the Committee.
TESTIMONY OF ALAN C. KESSLER,\1\ OF PENNSYLVANIA, TO BE A
GOVERNOR OF THE U.S. POSTAL SERVICE
Mr. Kessler. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and let me also thank
Senator Stevens, members of the staff, and other distinguished
guests here today.
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\1\ Mr. Kessler's Responses to Biographical Information
Questionnaire and Pre-Hearing Questions appear in the Appendix on pages
15 and 40 respectively.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
First, Mr. Chairman, although Senators Biden and Santorum
had to run to other business, I would like to say that I am
extremely honored and grateful to both of them for having taken
the time out of the very important business that they conduct
on behalf of the citizens of our great country and from the
extraordinary demands on their schedules to introduce me this
morning.
I am particularly thankful to both of them for the support
that I have received from such prominent members of this great
legislative body.
Mr. Chairman, I would like to introduce my wife Gail, who
is sitting right behind me, as well as my parents, Jo and Al
Kessler, and also introduce although they are not here today my
children, Stacy, Mark, and Dan, who could not be with us
because of school, although I am sure that if they had known
they might have had a choice, they would have loved to use this
hearing or, for that matter, anything else to get out of a day
of school.
I am truly humbled and deeply honored to be before you
today on the matter of my outstanding nomination to serve as a
Governor of the U.S. Postal Service. I do thank you, Mr.
Chairman, as Senator Santorum said, for having scheduled this
hearing and having scheduled it so expeditiously, as well as to
the members of the staff of both the Committee and
Subcommittee.
As Senator Santorum and Senator Biden related to you, while
my career has spanned over 20 years as a practicing lawyer, I
have been involved for almost as long in some form of public
service. From my first appointment in 1983, almost 17 years
ago, by the then Mayor of Philadelphia to a board position
overseeing building regulations to my subsequent appointments
by two successive mayors to a number of other city board
positions, including the city's License and Inspection Review
Board, the City Planning Commission, Philadelphia Industrial
Development Corporation and Central Philadelphia Development
Corporation, I have dedicated a significant part of my career
to serving the city in which I have lived and practiced my
profession.
I have also served, as Senators Santorum and Biden
discussed, as an elected official in a suburban township with a
population of approximately 58,000 residents and as such have
dealt with a full spectrum of issues facing local governments,
including budgetary and fiscal issues, public safety, public
works, land development, and recreation matters. By the way, in
that office, I dealt with a potential closing and relocation of
a Postal Service facility.
I have been appointed by the Pennsylvania Supreme Court to
chair its Continuing Legal Education Committee, which oversees
mandatory continuing legal education for all Pennsylvania
lawyers.
Finally, during the period 1994-1998, I served as vice
chair of the Presidential Congressional Commission on Risk
Assessment and Risk Management, a bipartisan commission that
consisted of Presidential appointees as well as appointees of
the Senate Majority Leader, Senator Minority Leader, Speaker of
the House, and others. The Commission held hearings; it issued
two reports to the White House and to Congress on the issues of
risk assessment and risk management. In connection with that
effort, I might add, I had the opportunity to work with both
Senate and House committee staffers.
I very much enjoyed my service on that commission, as I
have in all other areas of public service in which I have been
engaged for almost 20 years. After we completed the Risk
Commission's work, I indicated a desire to perform additional
service on a part-time board or commission at the Federal
level.
I expressed my interest in particular in the U.S. Postal
Service because of some very important projects in which it had
been involved in my city. I have also been very interested in
the future of the Postal Service because of the increased
competition that it will face and does face as a result of
developing communications technology. This decade therefore
will witness a critical challenge to an American institution--
part of our national fabric--which has engendered over the
years such a high degree of confidence and trust from our
citizens.
I am intrigued by and very interested in helping the Postal
Service meet this great challenge.
As a business lawyer, I have represented a number of
different business interests, including real estate developers,
major corporations as well as entrepreneurial companies. I have
been involved not only in the courtroom, but in negotiations
and counseling, in an effort to achieve goals while utilizing
alternative methods to resolve disputes.
I believe that the cumulative experience that I have gained
through my practice of law and through my public service will
enhance my effectiveness on the Board of Governors of the U.S.
Postal Service.
I had the very interesting and thought-provoking experience
of appearing before Committee staff a few weeks ago to address
a number of issues facing the Postal Service. While I have much
to learn, I do believe that I have the basic background and a
fundamental appreciation of those issues.
I look forward to the great challenges presented by these
issues and to making what I hope will be a very worthwhile and
lasting contribution to the business of the U.S. Postal
Service.
Once again, I would like to thank you, Mr. Chairman, as
well as Senator Stevens and the other distinguished Members of
this Committee and Subcommittee, and staff members, for
providing me with a hearing on my nomination.
I thank Senators Santorum and Biden for honoring me today
with their very gracious introductions, and Senator Specter,
who could not be with us today but who sent his chief of staff
to be with me.
I understand I have taken enough time. It is Carol's turn
to offer an introduction. But after that, I would be delighted
to attempt to answer any questions that you might have.
Senator Cochran. Thank you, Mr. Kessler.
Ms. Pope, we are happy to have you with us this morning. We
welcome you and invite you to make any opening statement and to
introduce any members of your family or other guests that you
would like to at this point.
Please proceed.
TESTIMONY OF CAROL WALLER POPE,\1\ OF WASHINGTON, DC, TO BE A
MEMBER OF THE FEDERAL LABOR RELATIONS AUTHORITY
Ms. Pope. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
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\1\ Ms. Pope's Biographical Information Questionnaire and Pre-
Hearing Questions appear in the Appendix on pages 61 and 71
respectively.
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I would like to recognize initially my sister, Lynda Butler
from Philadelphia, who is here representing all of my family--
my elderly mother and sisters in Pittsburgh who could not be
here today.
I would also like to recognize members of my extended
District of Columbia family--Donna Ramos Johnson and Langdon
Johnson.
It is important that I recognize Don Wasserman, Chairman of
the FLRA, and Dale Cabinuss, a Member of the FLRA, who are
present today. Unfortunately, member Phyllis Segal and the
Federal Services Impasses Panel Chair Bonnie Castrey were
unable to attend.
Also, my boss, the FLRA General Counsel, Joseph
Swerdzewski, could not be here today, but he is ably
represented by members of his staff who are also my colleagues
in the Office of the General Counsel.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for holding this hearing, and I
would like to thank Congresswoman Norton for her kind words on
my behalf and for her support.
I would also like to thank all of the Committee staff for
their work and for their meaningful assistance in their review
of my nomination and the scheduling of this hearing.
I am humbled that President Clinton has nominated me to be
a Member of the Federal Labor Relations Authority, an agency
that I have worked in for over 20 years as a career civil
servant.
The mission of the FLRA, to exercise leadership in
promoting stable, constructive labor-management relationships
that contribute to a more effective and efficient government,
reaches to the heart of the workings of our democracy. That
mission has been the cornerstone of my professional life. If
confirmed by the Senate, I will work with my colleagues to
ensure that the FLRA fulfills its mission by adjudicating
disputes fairly, impartially, and expeditiously; also by
producing quality legal decisions that enhance the stability of
Federal sector labor relations.
Just as important, I will work with my colleagues to ensure
that the FLRA continues its leadership role in assisting labor
and management in collaboratively resolving their disputes.
I greatly appreciate the trust and confidence that
President Clinton has placed in me, and if confirmed, I pledge
to discharge my duties to the best of my ability.
Mr. Chairman, I thank you for the opportunity to appear
today.
Senator Cochran. Thank you, Ms. Pope.
We welcome all of the family members and guests who are
here today.
We have some standard questions that are required of us
under our rules and customs to ask of all nominees. I am going
to go through those at this time and then add a couple of my
own.
Is there anything that you are aware of in your background
that might present a conflict of interest with the duties and
the office to which you have been nominated, Mr. Kessler?
Mr. Kessler. Mr. Chairman, the answer to that is no, or at
least I am not aware of any. We have made full disclosures in
terms of my financial holdings and my client list. I did
receive an opinion from the ethics officers of the Postal
Service who reviewed that and sent a 2-page letter indicating
that she saw no conflict at this time.
Senator Cochran. Thank you. Ms. Pope.
Ms. Pope. No, Senator.
Senator Cochran. Do you know of any reason, personal or
otherwise, that would in any way prevent you from fully and
honorably discharging the responsibilities of the office to
which you have been nominated?
Mr. Kessler. No, I do not, Senator.
Ms. Pope. No, Senator.
Senator Cochran. Do you agree without reservation to
respond to any reasonable summons to appear and testify before
any duly-constituted committee of Congress if you are
confirmed?
Mr. Kessler. Yes, Mr. Chairman.
Ms. Pope. Yes, Senator.
Senator Cochran. Let me ask you, Mr. Kessler, there are
several issues that are confronting the Postal Service right
now, and as Chairman of the Subcommittee that has jurisdiction
over that area of the Committee's responsibilities, I am
planning to look into a couple of them with some hearings and
discussions with those who are responsible and interested in
the issues.
One is the extent to which the Postal Service should be
permitted, or is authorized by law, to get outside what would
normally be considered the traditional scope of handling the
mail. For example, in electronic communications, there are some
suggestions that the Postal Service is going to embark on some
new ways of handling communications, and there is a question
about whether this is unfair competition with existing private
enterprise activities in this area.
Do you have any thoughts or suggestions along this line
about that issue?
Mr. Kessler. Mr. Chairman, I certainly hope to the extent
my nomination comes out of Committee and is voted on that I
will learn a lot more than I know now, as I have indicated. But
I do believe that it is clear that the Postal Service does face
a great challenge over the next several years. The Postmaster
General has indicated that several billion dollars of revenues
are at risk because of increased competition from electronic
mail, and I think that if the Postal Service is going to meet
those challenges, it is going to have to be innovative and
creative in terms of keeping abreast with the internet. It has
done that to a certain extent with PC Postage and other
initiatives.
There is an issue, as the Chairman raised, with the fact
that the Postal Service, some say, has an unfair advantage, but
on the other hand, just as it does have some advantages, it
also has disadvantages. It does not have the ability to
increase rates the same way enjoyed by the private sector. The
rate process presently takes probably in excess of 10 months.
The Postal Service, as we all know, has a universal service
mandate. It is not a mandate that the private sector has.
So there are advantages and disadvantages. I do agree that
it is a significant issue and one that I would very much like
to study and analyze in greater detail, but I do think that the
Postal Service is going to have to move into the 21st Century,
including through internet and electronic measures, if it is
going to hope to compete and not, as the Postmaster General
said, see a significant diminution in its revenues.
Senator Cochran. One of the challenges of the Postal
Service is dealing with the employee unions and other groups
that are competing for higher wages, salaries, working
conditions, and all the rest. To what extent does your
background equip you to deal with the issues of labor and
management relations that you would bring to this job?
Mr. Kessler. Mr. Chairman, maybe I ought to defer to my
colleague, Ms. Pope, and let her answer that question. But I
have experience--I am not a labor lawyer, but I have general
experience. When our past mayor took over in Philadelphia in
1992, the City of Philadelphia was on the brink of financial
bankruptcy, and it was a matter of bringing the unions in--and
I had some role in that--and labor and getting them to buy into
the future of the city; and if that meant making sacrifices in
some ways, there was no alternative.
I have had that same experience in behalf of my township,
Lower Merion Township, as we have seen, at least during the
1990's, our revenue sources dryed up and an absolute reluctance
to increase taxes, and that meant considering new initiatives
like privatization that we did not ultimately embark upon but
that I felt we had an obligation and a duty to explore fully,
and we did. In fact, we even went out with an RFP to look into
privatization in some areas.
So I think I have the experience to do that. I think that
part of the trick with labor--and I do not mean to say it is a
trick--is good communication and trust in getting labor to buy
into the future. When the Postmaster General says that there is
a significant potential decline in mail and therefore in
revenues, it seems to me that that is something that labor
needs to have a seat at the table on but needs to understand
the challenges of the future if it in turn wants to have a
future.
Senator Cochran. Thank you.
Ms. Pope, one of the responsibilities of the Federal Labor
Relations Authority is to promote stability; that was something
you acknowledged in your statement, and with a 20-year history
of working with the agency, you are quite familiar with that.
What do you see as one of the influences or some of the
influences that you could bring to the challenge of promoting
stability and dependability of excellence in performance of
those who work for the Federal Government?
Ms. Pope. Labor relations is the cornerstone, if you will,
of an effective government, and in my view, the role of the
Federal Labor Relations Authority in delivering and deciding
issues that affect labor-management relations promotes
stability. Our 20-year history in issuing decisions that
clarify the statute, identify the parties--labor's and
management's rights and responsibilities under the statute,
promotes stability.
Currently, our work in alternative dispute resolution and
attempting to assist the parties in developing more
collaborative relationships also operates to promote stability
in Federal sector labor relations.
Senator Cochran. Are there any suggestions that you could
give to the legislative committee that has jurisdiction over
this area of the law for reform or changes that would make the
relationship between the government and its employees more
stable and more productive?
Ms. Pope. There are issues and areas that I am not prepared
to speak about today with respect to legislative reform,
particularly the scope of bargaining. In my view and in my role
as a civil servant and as a member of the Federal Labor
Relations Authority staff, we have attempted to educate the
parties about the statute and its requirements in an effort to
promote stability.
Senator Cochran. Thank you.
Senator Akaka has joined us. He is the Ranking Member of
our Subcommittee and my good friend from Hawaii.
Senator Akaka, I would be happy to yield to you for any
comments or questions you have of our nominees.
OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR AKAKA
Senator Akaka. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. You are a
good friend and very kind to me, and I want to thank you for
having this hearing, which is very important to all of us.
Mr. Kessler, I want to express my appreciation for your
interest in serving the public as a member of the Board of
Postal Governors; and to you, Ms. Pope, on your desire to serve
the agency which you have called home for 20 years, as a member
of the National Labor Relations Authority.
You have both led exciting legal careers, as I read--one
outside the Federal Government, the other within the Federal
Government--and I am pleased to welcome both of you here today.
My questions are very brief, Mr. Kessler. I would like to
know how you will help protect universal service. I ask that
question because I understand that the workload of the Postal
Service is changing, and we expect that, given that there will
be a projected decline in mail volume by 2003. I am interested
in how you would handle this.
Mr. Kessler. Senator, I would love to say that I have
specific measures in mind to address it, but at this point, I
do not, other than to say as I did discuss earlier, that I
understand that that is probably the greatest challenge facing
the Postal Service, and I do think it probably requires a
combination of factors one of which is potentially--and again,
I preface this by saying that I am learning and obviously hope
to learn a lot more--but one of the things that probably needs
to happen--and I understand there was or may be legislative
initiatives--is allowing the Postal Service to increase its
rates somewhat more quickly and expeditiously than it is able
to now, 10, 11, or 12 months is a long time in today's world,
when private companies can react on a daily if not even quicker
basis.
That is not to say that the method, the procedure in place
right now is a bad one and that there should not be an
opportunity for stakeholders to be heard on rate increases or,
hopefully, rate decreases. It just means that is something that
maybe can be shortened and improved.
The Chairman asked me about whether the Postal Service
should get involved in electronic mail initiatives, the
internet. It has over the last several years in some respect,
with postage stamp PC postage. I think the Postal Service needs
to stay within its traditional area of services and not go
beyond those services, but nonetheless I think it needs to
update those services and be able to compete. It has got to be
able to compete, and all the things that I have discussed today
I think are important in that respect, including the need to
bring labor into the mix, the need to continue to automate and
to spend the money that has been spent over the last couple of
years on automation. And in that respect, I believe automation
alone has saved the Postal Service over the last year or two
over $208 million.
So I think that a combination of all those things has to be
in place to allow the Postal Service to effectively compete
over the next decade.
Senator Akaka. Well, as you know, it will really demand
some creative thinking as to how the Postal Service is going to
deal with the decline in the mail load it receives. And as you
point out, with the new technologies that are coming out, even
those of us in Congress have to alter the way we work now that
we have computers instead of filing cabinets. So our staffs and
the Members have to shift in the way we do things here, and we
find that we are doing more than we did before.
Ms. Pope, as the ranking member on the Federal Services
Subcommittee, I am always interested in labor-management
relations. Given your service of 20 years on the FLRA, I would
be very interested in hearing your thoughts on the issue of
labor-management relations.
Ms. Pope. We are in a period of some change in Federal
labor relations, 5 years ago, starting to embark on a
collaborative effort to have labor and management work together
outside traditional litigation and adversarial means. A lot of
progress has been made in the last 5 years, and a lot has
happened in my 20-year career with respect to the development
of the law in Federal sector labor relations.
There is a lot of promise and expectations, if you will, on
the part of both sides, labor and management, as we move
forward and further develop areas of the law and look to
cement, collaboration and nonadversarial methods of dispute
resolution, all to promote a more effective and efficient
government.
Senator Akaka. As you know, labor issues and problems have
changed over a period of time and will continue to change. I
was interested in what you thought you would be facing, and I
thank you for your comments.
Mr. Chairman, thank you very much.
Senator Cochran. Thank you, Senator Akaka. We appreciate
your participation in the hearing.
Again let me welcome and commend those who have been
nominated for these important responsibilities in our Federal
Government. We appreciate your cooperation with our Committee.
We have no further questions at this time, although
Senators have an opportunity to submit written questions if
they so choose, and we hope you will respond to any that are
submitted in a timely fashion. The record will remain open for
those questions and also any statements that Senators might
want to put in the record.
That concludes the hearing. We stand adjourned.
[Whereupon, at 10:41 a.m., the Committee was adjourned.]
A P P E N D I X
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