[House Hearing, 106 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
THE AMERICAN BATTLE MONUMENTS COMMISSION AND THE WORLD WAR II MEMORIAL
=======================================================================
HEARING
before the
SUBCOMMITTEE ON NATIONAL SECURITY,
VETERANS AFFAIRS, AND INTERNATIONAL
RELATIONS
of the
COMMITTEE ON
GOVERNMENT REFORM
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
ONE HUNDRED SIXTH CONGRESS
SECOND SESSION
__________
JUNE 6, 2000
__________
Serial No. 106-214
__________
Printed for the use of the Committee on Government Reform
Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.gpo.gov/congress/house
http://www.house.gov/reform
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COMMITTEE ON GOVERNMENT REFORM
DAN BURTON, Indiana, Chairman
BENJAMIN A. GILMAN, New York HENRY A. WAXMAN, California
CONSTANCE A. MORELLA, Maryland TOM LANTOS, California
CHRISTOPHER SHAYS, Connecticut ROBERT E. WISE, Jr., West Virginia
ILEANA ROS-LEHTINEN, Florida MAJOR R. OWENS, New York
JOHN M. McHUGH, New York EDOLPHUS TOWNS, New York
STEPHEN HORN, California PAUL E. KANJORSKI, Pennsylvania
JOHN L. MICA, Florida PATSY T. MINK, Hawaii
THOMAS M. DAVIS, Virginia CAROLYN B. MALONEY, New York
DAVID M. McINTOSH, Indiana ELEANOR HOLMES NORTON, Washington,
MARK E. SOUDER, Indiana DC
JOE SCARBOROUGH, Florida CHAKA FATTAH, Pennsylvania
STEVEN C. LaTOURETTE, Ohio ELIJAH E. CUMMINGS, Maryland
MARSHALL ``MARK'' SANFORD, South DENNIS J. KUCINICH, Ohio
Carolina ROD R. BLAGOJEVICH, Illinois
BOB BARR, Georgia DANNY K. DAVIS, Illinois
DAN MILLER, Florida JOHN F. TIERNEY, Massachusetts
ASA HUTCHINSON, Arkansas JIM TURNER, Texas
LEE TERRY, Nebraska THOMAS H. ALLEN, Maine
JUDY BIGGERT, Illinois HAROLD E. FORD, Jr., Tennessee
GREG WALDEN, Oregon JANICE D. SCHAKOWSKY, Illinois
DOUG OSE, California ------
PAUL RYAN, Wisconsin BERNARD SANDERS, Vermont
HELEN CHENOWETH-HAGE, Idaho (Independent)
DAVID VITTER, Louisiana
Kevin Binger, Staff Director
Daniel R. Moll, Deputy Staff Director
David A. Kass, Deputy Counsel and Parliamentarian
Lisa Smith Arafune, Chief Clerk
Phil Schiliro, Minority Staff Director
------
Subcommittee on National Security, Veterans Affairs, and International
Relations
CHRISTOPHER SHAYS, Connecticut, Chairman
MARK E. SOUDER, Indiana ROD R. BLAGOJEVICH, Illinois
ILEANA ROS-LEHTINEN, Florida TOM LANTOS, California
JOHN M. McHUGH, New York ROBERT E. WISE, Jr., West Virginia
JOHN L. MICA, Florida JOHN F. TIERNEY, Massachusetts
DAVID M. McINTOSH, Indiana THOMAS H. ALLEN, Maine
MARSHALL ``MARK'' SANFORD, South EDOLPHUS TOWNS, New York
Carolina BERNARD SANDERS, Vermont
LEE TERRY, Nebraska (Independent)
JUDY BIGGERT, Illinois JANICE D. SCHAKOWSKY, Illinois
HELEN CHENOWETH-HAGE, Idaho
Ex Officio
DAN BURTON, Indiana HENRY A. WAXMAN, California
Lawrence J. Halloran, Staff Director and Counsel
Thomas Costa, Professional Staff Member
Jason Chung, Clerk
Jon Bouker, Minority Counsel
C O N T E N T S
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Page
Hearing held on June 6, 2000..................................... 1
Statement of:
Clark, David L., Director, Audit Oversight and Liaison,
Accounting and Information Management Division, U.S.
General Accounting Office; and Dennis Cullinan, director,
legislative services, Veterans of Foreign Wars of the
United States.............................................. 40
Dole, Robert J., former U.S. Senator and National Chairman,
World War II Memorial Campaign............................. 9
Herrling, Major General John P., USA (Ret), Secretary,
American Battle Monuments Commission....................... 14
Letters, statements, etc., submitted for the record by:
Clark, David L., Director, Audit Oversight and Liaison,
Accounting and Information Management Division, U.S.
General Accounting Office, prepared statement of........... 43
Cullinan, Dennis, director, legislative services, Veterans of
Foreign Wars of the United States, prepared statement of... 50
Herrling, Major General John P., USA (Ret), Secretary,
American Battle Monuments Commission, prepared statement of 20
Holmes Norton, Hon. Eleanor, a Delegate in Congress from
Washington, DC, prepared statement of...................... 5
Mica, Hon. John L., a Representative in Congress from the
State of Florida, prepared statement of.................... 8
Smith, Frederick W., co-chairman, National World War II
Memorial Campaign, prepared statement of................... 16
THE AMERICAN BATTLE MONUMENTS COMMISSION AND THE WORLD WAR II MEMORIAL
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TUESDAY, JUNE 6, 2000
House of Representatives,
Subcommittee on National Security, Veterans
Affairs, and International Relations,
Committee on Government Reform,
Washington, DC.
The subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 10 a.m., in
room 2154, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Christopher
Shays (chairman of the subcommittee) presiding.
Present: Representatives Shays, Mica, Terry, Biggert, and
Norton.
Staff present: Lawrence J. Halloran, staff director and
counsel; R. Nicholas Palarino, senior policy advisor; Thomas
Costa, professional staff member; Jason M. Chung, clerk; Jon
Bouker and David Rapallo, minority counsels; and Earley Green,
minority assistant clerk.
Mr. Shays. Good morning. I would like to call this hearing
to order.
As the beneficiaries of past sacrifices, our duty as
citizens is to remember, to mark for future generations, the
milestones of our national honor.
Fifty-six years ago today, Operation Overlord's D-Day,
135,000 Allied troops began the historic amphibious invasion
that would end the war in Europe. Today, in New Orleans, the
National D-Day Museum opens to commemorate the courage and
sacrifices of the 71,000 Americans who entered France that day.
Let us pause to remember them.
An important milestone has yet to be marked. No memorial
stands to the 16 million Americans who served in World War II,
the men and women who defined their generation with quiet
heroism and redefined our still-young Nation as a global power.
The Federal agency charged by Congress with the day-to-day
duties of remembrance, the American Battle Monuments Commission
[ABMC], has since 1993 moved the World War II Memorial from
concept to construction. Today, we will hear how the Commission
plans to complete this ambitious, noble enterprise. We will
also discuss how the ABMC is performing its mission to preserve
and maintain the hallowed ground around the world where U.S.
servicemen and women rest.
We are privileged to be joined this morning by former
Senator Robert Dole, who serves as the National chairman of the
World War II Memorial Campaign. A living testimonial to the
fortitude and the self-effacing sense of duty that won the war,
he and the American Battle Monuments Commission leadership have
worked to overcome the financial, artistic and political
challenges inherent to so ambitious an undertaking. Through
their efforts, the World War II Memorial will take its place
among the great monuments to freedom on the Mall.
At this time, I would like to recognize Mrs. Biggert.
Mrs. Biggert. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am honored to be
at this hearing today. I think there is nothing more important
than remembering the past and what happened in World War II, so
that we will not let something like that happen in the future.
Two weeks ago, we passed a congressional resolution to put
the ``memorial'' back in Memorial Day, and certainly the World
War II veterans, so many of them who made the ultimate
sacrifice; and I think for generations to come when people come
to Washington and visit the various memorials, the things that
they remember and think about. So our future generations need
to have that opportunity, because we need to remember what has
happened in the past.
I welcome you all here today.
Mr. Shays. Thank you very much.
We also welcome a full member of the committee,
Representative Norton from DC.
Ms. Norton. Thank you, very much. I appreciate your
courtesy and that of your ranking member, Rod Blagojevich, for
responding to my request to sit in on this very important
hearing. I am certainly grateful to my friend, Marcy Kaptur,
for her 10-year fight to erect a memorial to the veterans of
the Great War, which preserved democracy and freedom in our
time.
Former Senator Bob Dole has my great respect not only for
his 36 years in the Congress, but also for the time and effort
that he is devoting to achieving a memorial to veterans, like
himself, who served their country in the Great War of
Liberation of the 20th century.
I appreciate the response of the National Capital Planning
Commission to my plea and that of Senator Bob Kerrey and others
in requiring that the original huge design for the memorial be
reworked to a more appropriate size. Senator Kerrey and I also
opposed the present Rainbow pool site, the last remaining
visionary vista left in this small compact city. If this is the
last opportunity to effect any change--and I would hope that it
is not--then I would feel compelled to support the memorial,
but only because of the eternal gratitude and enduring respect
I have and I believe the entire world owes to the men and women
who served in World War II.
However, I feel compelled to briefly lay out for the record
what many Americans, like myself, regard as a Mall that is and
should always remain sacrosanct from intrusions of any kind.
One does not have to be a historical preservationist or a
conservationist or an environmentalist or a fourth-generation
Washingtonian--and I am all of the above--to believe that the
last remaining visionary space on the Mall should never be
interrupted by the hand of man, however heroic and deserving
the purpose. The space between the Lincoln Memorial and the
Washington Monument has always been close to sacred in
nationally symbolic terms. Equally sacred to me, a child of
World War II, and for millions throughout the world, is the
sacrifice that Brokaw's ``Greatest Generation'' made for the
Nation and the world.
This memorial continues to have major flaws of design and
placement. I support the present memorial only if it is the
best we can do. However, I sincerely believe that a truly great
memorial could be achieved just as prominently elsewhere with
the artistry and imagination the extraordinary World War II
generation richly deserves.
I recently suggested the idea of a Mall preservation plan,
which has since been approved, as a no-build zone by the Joint
Memorials Task Force. All agree that a World War II Memorial
belongs somewhere on the Mall with an appropriate design and in
the right place. As one who knows this city inside out,
however, I caution that the placement at the Rainbow Pool site
would create a virtual nightmare tourist scenario. The memorial
would front one of the busy, congested streets that receives
traffic from several arteries and is often strangled with cars,
especially at rush hour. To reach the memorial, there would be
no transportation, no parking, and no public transit access
without defacing the Mall.
The Nation's Capital is a planned city, but it was not
meant to be finished. Washington was meant to develop,
especially because, given its small and compact size, the city
loses its beauty if it simply spreads to open spaces. A
monument of the unique significance of the World War II
Memorial should grace, not invade its space. To try to improve
on the uniquely wondrous space between the Lincoln Memorial and
the Washington Monument is like trying to add something to a
Picasso or a Michelangelo.
I think of L'Enfant's celebrated plan creating our Capital
in much the way I view the Constitution. Both the L'Enfant plan
and the U.S. Constitution were created by men who, like the men
and women of World War II, are in a class by themselves. I have
learned to respect the Constitution by studying it as a
constitutional scholar and lawyer. I have learned to respect
the L'Enfant plan by living with it as a child and as a
Congresswoman.
We are not smarter than Madison, and we are not more
brilliant than L'Enfant. We are not nearly as brave, wise, and
deserving as the World War II veterans. We fall short of the
``greatest generation'' of the 20th century if this space and
this design is the best this generation can do.
I urge still more work, much deeper thought, and an effort
fueled by the unparalleled magnificence of the achievement of
the World War II veterans.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Shays. Thank you. Congressman Mica, do you have any
statement?
Mr. Mica. I don't have a formal statement. I will submit
something for the record.
I just want to commend you, Mr. Chairman, for holding this
hearing on such a historic day on a topic that certainly needs
the attention of this subcommittee and the Congress, and that
is to commemorate the action of so many brave Americans,
including my dad, who didn't die in battle but passed away as a
result of his service to our country.
And I am also pleased to welcome Bob Dole, a great American
patriot, whom I admire, and I look forward to his statement and
also to the testimony that we will have here today; and
hopefully it will result in us accomplishing the goal that we
all want to set forward and complete, and that is a memorial
fitting to those who served this country in their great effort.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I yield back the balance of my
time.
[The prepared statement of Hon. Eleanor Holmes Norton
follows:]
[GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T1730.001
[GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T1730.002
Mr. Shays. I ask unanimous consent that all members of the
subcommittee be permitted to place an opening statement in the
record and that the record remain open for 3 days for that
purpose. Without objection, so ordered.
[The prepared statement of Hon. John L. Mica follows:]
[GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T1730.003
Mr. Shays. I ask further unanimous consent that all
witnesses be permitted to include their written statements in
the record; and without objection, so ordered.
Our first panel the Honorable Robert J. Dole, chairman,
World War II Memorial Campaign. I could call you Senator, but
you told me the title you like the best is veteran.
And Major General John P. Herrling, U.S.A. retired,
Secretary, American Battle Monuments Commission, accompanied by
Kenneth Pond, executive director from the Commission, as well
as Jim Aylward, executive director, World War II Memorial
Campaign.
As is our custom, we swear in all of our witnesses, and I
would ask all that I called to stand and be sworn in.
[Witnesses sworn.]
Mr. Shays. I note for the record that all of our witnesses
and the accompanying witnesses have been sworn. Thank you.
Senator Dole, you have the floor. It is wonderful to have
you here.
STATEMENT OF ROBERT J. DOLE, FORMER U.S. SENATOR AND NATIONAL
CHAIRMAN, WORLD WAR II MEMORIAL CAMPAIGN
Mr. Dole. Mr. Chairman, thank you very much; and I thank
all of my former colleagues who are here this morning. Judy
wasn't here when I was here, but thank you for being here.
As Eleanor recalled, when I was here the last time was on
prostate cancer. This is much more pleasant.
This is an effort that we have been making for several
years. And as has been pointed out, it was initiated by Marcy
Kaptur, and it shows the power of a visit from a constituent,
Roger Durbin, who said, why don't we have a World War II
Memorial in Washington, DC? And she looked around and others
looked around, and we couldn't find one. So she introduced
legislation to authorize a World War II Memorial, and that was
sort of the start of the entire progress, and here we are 13
years later just about ready to say the money is in the bank or
the money is pledged. And so it is a pleasure for me to be here
to talk about the construction.
Major General John Herrling, Secretary of the American
Battle Monuments Commission, will address the overall mission
of ABMC and talk about these wonderfully kept cemeteries around
the world. I know that you have all visited some of the
American cemeteries, and they are a sight to behold for their
beauty, and they are obviously well kept.
My co-chairman, Fred Smith, the CEO of Fed Ex, is unable to
be here, but I understand that his statement will be
summarized; and I request that it be inserted in the record in
full. Fred Smith has a great record in Vietnam; and I remember
going to ask him if he would help me, and I said that I need
some help in corporate America. And without hesitation, he
said, if you want me to do it, I will do it, because I think he
had three uncles and other relatives in World War II; and he
has been very, very helpful.
We have had literally dozens and maybe hundreds of
corporations and foundations and veterans groups and everybody
you can think of help us. I was in Michigan yesterday with the
Governor of the State. Governor Engler gave me a check for
$653,000, a dollar for each person from Michigan who served in
World War II, one of them, of course, former President Ford.
We just left a ceremony on the Mall, and I know Eleanor
said that there is some disagreement on the site. I didn't pick
the site; I wasn't on the selection committee. I have just been
doing the fundraising, and we were given a check this morning
for $14.5 million from Wal-Mart. Each one of their 3,000 stores
participated over a 6-month period; and when I went to bed last
night it was $14 million. When I woke up this morning, it was
$14.5 million. Had I overslept, we might have had enough to
finish the memorial.
It was a wonderful contribution, and Tom Coughlin and
others at Wal-Mart certainly deserve our thanks. Over 1,900
World War II veterans still work for Wal-Mart, and they were
able to put the squeeze on the customers when they came in, and
they did a great job.
I accepted this challenge in March 1997 and someone said--
as a matter of fact, I think it was Senator Bob Kerrey who
said, ``Why are you running around with a tin cup? Why don't
you come to Congress and we will appropriate the money?''
Well, our view was that we ought to raise it in the private
sector, and we ought to leave the money up here for veterans'
needs. Present-day veterans who need help, and $100 million can
help a lot of veterans.
Why would I agree to take on this responsibility? I think I
said on that morning, those of us who served during World War
II, we didn't hear the call of history, we heard only the
voices of friends, voices that sometimes could end in a moment
in a place far, far from home, whether Europe, the Pacific or
wherever you might be. I can hear them. I was in the 10th
Mountain Division, and I never quite understand how I got in
the 10th Mountain Division because I came from the plains of
Kansas, but in those days if you were warm and walking you were
a good prospect for second lieutenant, and I became a second
lieutenant.
But I remember hearing some of the voices, and we had some
of the great skiers of America at that time in the 10th
Mountain Division; and when the war ended, these young men
fanned out across the country and kind of organized the
American ski industry and sort of made it take off. Many of
them were wounded or killed in Italy. So I could hear them as
if it were yesterday. I can hear the voices. And I think it is
almost frozen in time, because 56 years ago was D-Day, of
course, and we think of some of the days that we shared and
some of the experiences that we shared.
But I have thought more about it, and I thought about it in
this sense: We spend 55 years, 56 years; in another 55 years,
there will be no one left who heard those voices, nobody came
and talked about it. And we build this memorial to bear them
witness and remind future generations that preserving freedom
and liberty sometimes calls for great sacrifice.
We throw the word ``hero'' around pretty easy in America,
``this person is a hero'' and ``that person is a hero.'' I
think there is a distinction between heroes and celebrities. I
think some of the great sports stars are great, but they are
not heroes in my view; they are celebrities, and they deserve a
lot of praise and whatever.
But the heroes, as people on this committee know, are young
men and women, or men and women of any age, who risked their
lives--maybe in the District of Columbia, maybe in Kansas,
maybe in uniform to save another life--and as a result of it,
they may lose their life or spend their life with a lifetime of
disability. And these are the heroes.
And there were 400,000-some killed in World War II, there
were over 6,000 killed 56 years ago in the beaches of Normandy,
6,000 Americans in a 12-hour period on D-Day. World War II, of
course, is really--this memorial is not just to those in
uniform. We could not have prevailed in World War II had it not
been for Rosie the Riveters and the people on the farms and the
teachers and the preachers and the shopkeepers and those who
provided the supplies and the equipment and machines and
ammunition and all that we needed to be successful in the
battlefield.
I am not on the site committee, but I have thought a lot
about it because I know good people can disagree. And I know
this is sacred land between the Lincoln Memorial and the
Washington Monument, but you know, there was no certainty that
we were going to win World War II. And I remember, on D-Day,
Eisenhower praying that he made the right decision to start the
invasion on June 6, and then going off in his little tent and
writing a four-sentence statement in longhand because he wasn't
certain of victory, and this was to be handed to the press in
case the landings failed.
It went pretty much like this; I don't remember every word
of it, but he said, ``Our mission has failed and I have
withdrawn the troops. We acted upon the best advice available
at the time from every source we had. The soldiers, the
sailors, the airmen and the Marines, everyone involved that
duty could call forth, if there is any responsibility for the
failure, it is mine alone.''
We talk a lot about leadership and different things. That
says it all: ``if there is any responsibility for the failure,
it is mine alone.'' And Eisenhower put that in his pocket and
later threw it in the wastebasket, and somebody later retrieved
it, and I now have a copy of it in my office which is one of my
prouder possessions. But it demonstrates that had we not
prevailed on D-Day 56 years ago, we could have lost the war.
People don't think that would have happened, but it could have
happened. Eisenhower wasn't certain, and he was the Supreme
Commander, appointed by President Roosevelt.
Had we failed, I am not certain who would be deciding what
would be the Mall. It wouldn't be me or some site selection
commission, it would be some foreign power telling us what we
could do and when and how to do it.
I can't think of any greater happening or event in the last
100 years than the victory in World War II.
We have become the greatest force in the world for peace
because of World War II. We started integration in World War
II, and all of the civil rights progress, in my view, is a
direct result of what happened in World War II when they
started integrating the troops as they should have a long time
before. And you can look at the GI Bill of Rights, the 2
million or more veterans, men and women who would not have been
able to go to college, were able to afford to because of the GI
Bill of Rights. This one law changed America for the better.
Young men and women who couldn't go to college had this
opportunity, and I was one of those. And because I had a
disability, I had a recording machine to take to school, I had
a left-handed typewriter, I had all of these advantages, I also
had the best notes in class because I recorded, and I was very
popular around final time. It changed America and I think it
changed the world.
So I am not going to argue about the site, if there are
things that should be changed; and Eleanor and Bob Kerrey and
others did make significant recommendations, and they were
accepted, and I think it is a much better memorial now. We
appreciate that.
I went down to the site this morning and we collected this
large check. We now have about $92 million, and we need a net
of about $98.2 million. President Clinton has agreed to host a
breakfast on June 29th for people from Hollywood and the TV
industry, and they have not been particularly noteworthy to
date. But hopefully on June 29th, they will be able to bring
their checkbooks and that is one legitimate fundraiser we can
have in the White House because this is for the World War II
Memorial; and we will remind the movie industry that they have
made millions and millions of dollars on World War II movies.
I will just conclude by saying that we have raised--we got
$5 million from the government for startup money. We will try
to pay that back. We hope that the government might pay for the
dedication and maybe the groundbreaking, but everything else--
the design, the construction, and maintenance, which is going
to be millions of dollars in the future--we are going to raise;
and we hope to pay back the government the $5 million that they
initially gave us for startup money.
In March 1997, the American Battle Monuments Commission was
completing the initial startup of the campaign, developing a
strategy and recruiting a projects staff; and prior to March
1997, they received less than $350,000 from private donors.
I said the best thing that has happened to us is that Fred
Smith has agreed to help us and we brought Jim Aylward on board
from New Jersey on board. We have a great staff working night
and day to make this happen. I want to mention also, and I
think I did mention, Roger Durbin, and one other group that is
the veterans group. I hosted a luncheon in 1997, and it was the
DAV, the VFW, the American Legion, AmVets, you name it, they
were all there; and the American Legion agreed to raise $3
million, the VFW, $7.5 million, and they will make $5 million.
They are behind us 100 percent.
It took awhile for people to become aware of this memorial.
And then a fellow named Tom Hanks, who was Captain Miller in
``Saving Private Ryan,'' Fred Smith and I had this big long
list of things to tell him, and within 10 seconds he said,
``I'm your man. What do you want me to do,'' has made a number
of public service announcements for us and raised the
recognition. We have also had a little help from Mr. Spielberg,
and I think he will be willing to help us more.
So the awareness is out there. We think that we are making
progress, and we think that we will make more progress. We
think that we will have support from the Hollywood and TV
community later this month and early in July.
I think others appearing this morning can give you the
details, but it takes money to get there, and we think we will
have raised about $144 million and the cost is going to be $100
million; and those details are available obviously.
I will just finally say this: Another thing this whole
project has done is alerted school children. I was out in St.
Hugh's School in Greenbelt, MD, 2 months ago, where the
students of grades 1 through 6, I think it was, had raised
$1,300. And it was a Saturday afternoon, much like a town
meeting that you all go to; and their parents and grandparents,
who were World War II veterans, and these young children
understood what the World War II Memorial was all about.
A couple of weeks ago, Marcy Kaptur accepted a memorial
gift of $3,800 from students at Dakota Hills Middle School in
Egan, MN. So we have dozens and dozens of schools all across
America who participated.
We have been asked to raise money from sources other than
the Federal Government. We are extremely pleased with the
results of our fundraising efforts to date. It has been a
struggle at times, but we are in the home stretch and not any
time too soon.
Let me close with one note. There is some urgency about
this. We are losing 1,000 World War II veterans a day. We have
lost over 1 million since March 1997 and that is going to
compound as they get into their late 1970's and 1980's. This is
not being built for those of us who served, it is being built
to remind future generations of the sacrifice, but we would
like to have a few people there for the dedication. I know
Strom is going to be there, he has already asked for tickets,
but there may be others who want to be there and we hope to
finish it by the year 2002.
Time is running out 16 million, now fewer than 6 million.
We believe that we are going to make it.
I want to thank the committee. I think this is very
important that you take a look at what we have done and what we
intend to do and that Congress--because you know there have
been a couple of efforts. They were going to build a Liberty
Wall in France, took a lot of money from veterans and nothing
ever happened, it went in their pocket or went somewhere else.
I think to have the American Battle Monuments Commission in
charge and have Congress with an oversight authority, the
American people are going to know that every dollar that went
into this memorial was properly spent and that you ended up
with a wonderful project and a wonderful memorial that is going
to be dignified and it is going to, I think, be a place that
will please most everybody in America.
Thank you very much. I ask that my entire statement be made
a part of the record.
Mr. Shays. Thank you for your testimony.
You stood up to be sworn in as a World War II veteran, and
I would like to know if there are any other World War II
veterans in this room, and I would like them to stand up. Would
they please stand up?
Mr. Shays. Gentlemen, can you tell us your names?
Mr. Muckler. My name is Bob Muckler. I live in Crossville,
TN.
Mr. Shays. Where did you serve, sir?
Mr. Muckler. The U.S. Navy, Pacific.
Mr. Shays. Thank you, sir.
Mr. Hanson. Dan Hanson from Tennessee. I served in
Greenland in the Air Force.
Mr. Shays. Thank you very much.
Mr. Choper. Herman Choper, Boynton Beach, FL; and I served
in Iceland.
Mr. Shays. So the Tennessee guys served in Iceland; and
Senator Dole, you got to serve in the mountains. Go figure.
Gentlemen, thank you very much.
I would just like to ask one more question. Is there anyone
here who lost a family member, a cousin, a dad, a granddad? Is
there anyone here who lost a family member?
Can you tell us who?
Mr. Hanson. My older brother was with Patton, and he was
killed.
Mr. Shays. What was his name?
Mr. Hanson. Arthur Hanson.
Mr. Dole. Can I mention one thing, Mr. Chairman? I had a
man who was in his 50's come up to me yesterday in Michigan and
say, ``You didn't mention orphans.'' You talk about widows, but
his father went off to Europe and never came back and he was 1
or 2 years old at the time. I said, ``You make a good point.''
You think of all of these young men going over there
single. Some left families behind, and certainly Congress over
the years made certain that we provided for the widows and
orphans. I omitted that from my remarks and so I think they are
young men, fairly young men and women out there today whose
fathers left and never came back. They are in their 50's now.
Mr. Shays. I was at an event a few years ago with Candice
Marino, and I was talking about the men and women who never
came back and their families, and he told me that he lost his
brother, and I had never known that. I marveled that I had
never known than, and then he said his wife lost her brother,
and there is just a whole group of Americans who lost their
loved ones during this horrific war. You put the ball in play
and we are going to invite Kenneth Pond and Jim Aylward as you
give your testimony.
Senator Dole, what have you done with that $14.5 million
check?
Mr. Dole. They gave me a great big one. It won't fit in my
wallet.
Mr. Shays. That is great news. Thank you very much.
General Herrling. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. With your
permission, Frederick W. Smith would like his statement put in
the record.
Mr. Shays. It will be part of the record.
STATEMENT OF MAJOR GENERAL JOHN P. HERRLING, USA (RET),
SECRETARY, AMERICAN BATTLE MONUMENTS COMMISSION
General Herrling. I will read Frederick W. Smith's short
statement:
Mr. Chairman and distinguished members of the subcommittee,
I regret I am unable to appear before you with Senator Dole and
General Herrling. However, I appreciate the opportunity to
present comments on my experience as the Co-chairman of the
National World War II Memorial Campaign.
I have many friends and relatives who were involved in
World War II. When Senator Dole asked me to take part in this
campaign, all I could think of was my Uncle Bill, my Uncle Sam
and my Uncle Arthur and my father, all of whom served in World
War II, and what a shame it was that there wasn't an
appropriate memorial to represent the tremendous sacrifices
made by their generation, including the more than 400,000 young
people who lost their lives.
I cannot imagine what this country or, for that matter,
what this world would have been like had Senator Dole and all
others who served so nobly not prevailed. It was the most
important event of the 20th century. This memorial will be a
living educational forum to teach future generations the true
costs of freedom and liberty.
Fortunately, this has become America's campaign. In little
more than 3 years we have begun closing in on our fundraising
goal. As of April 30th and excluding today's Wal-Mart's
donation, 192 corporations gave $29.6 million, including 13
that donated $500,000 or more and 10 that have given at least a
million. Seventy-four private foundations have contributed $9.2
million. Twenty-seven States passed legislation to donate $1
for each citizen who served in the Armed Forces during World
War II, generating $9.9 million. The remaining 23 States and
Puerto Rico have introduced similar legislation this year.
Three hundred eighty-six thousand individual Americans
contributed more than $30 million, $27 million in response to
direct mail solicitations, $2.7 million from calls to our toll-
free number and $1.2 million through our Web site. Major
individual donors contributed another $1.8 million, including
37 who contributed $10,000 and nine who have given at least a
$100,000. Two hundred eighty schools also reported raising
money. I am pleased that the schools in my hometown of Memphis
lead this effort, having raised $10,344. Milwaukee High School
in Oregon is a close second at $10,000 even. It goes without
saying that we could not have accomplished so much without the
unwavering support of this Nation's veterans, who are at the
heart of this campaign. Overall, veterans' groups are raising
millions of dollars through their internal campaigns, including
the VFW, which committed $7.5 million, the American Legion, $3
million. Another six organizations each gave a $100,000 or
more, and thousands of World War II reunion groups across the
country that have sent in contributions.
Our success is due in large part to the public awareness
generated by Tom Hanks's role as our national spokesperson, the
History Channel's documentary watched by more than 2 million
people, and the promotional and fundraising support of our
cause-related marketing partners.
We also have been helped by the aggressive efforts of more
than 400 grass-roots volunteers and 60 community action
councils, who solicit local businesses, organize fundraising
activities, and plan special events in their communities. Many
civic, fraternal and professional organizations, and numerous
corporations are also developing campaigns in support of the
memorial.
At times, it's easy to get caught up in the day-to-day
fundraising efforts and lose sight of our mission. We must
never forget that we are here to pay tribute to those who did
so much to ensure the freedom and prosperity we enjoy today.
Thus, I am heartened that in addition to donations, the names
of more than 400,000 Americans have been submitted for our
World War II Registry of Remembrances that will honor those
killed or missing in action, those who served in uniform, and
those on the home front. There is no charge to enter your name
on the registry.
As you can see, we have received support across the
country, from veterans to companies to classrooms. It is my
hope that children who visit the memorial in the future will
grasp the sense of sacrifice and accomplishment of the World
War II generation and the tremendous pride our country showed
for their achievement. I am proud to be a part of this effort
to say thank you to what many have considered to be the
'greatest generation' our country has produced.
I thank the subcommittee for the opportunity to discuss my
involvement in this long overdue project.
Mr. Chairman, this concludes Frederick W. Smith's remarks.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Smith follows:]
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Mr. Shays. We will now hear your remarks.
General Herrling. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, members of the
committee. On behalf of the Commissioners of the American
Battle Monuments Commission, I am pleased to appear before you
today, along with Senator Dole.
As you know the American Battle Monuments Commission
administers, operates and maintains 24 permanent memorial
cemeteries and 27 monuments, memorials and markers in 15
countries around the world.
We have 8 World War I and 14 World War II cemeteries
located in Europe, the Mediterranean, North Africa and the
Philippines. In addition, we are responsible for American
cemeteries in Mexico City and Panama. The maintenance of these
facilities is labor intensive, so personnel costs amount to
about 61 percent of our budget in fiscal year 2001.
The remaining 39 percent is required to fund our
engineering, maintenance, utilities, horticulture, equipment
and administrative costs.
We have now established an ABMC Web site which continues to
grow in popularity. Through the Web our customers can access
information on each of our memorial cemeteries, and the Korean
War Veterans Memorial Honor Roll. We have recently brought on-
line 172,000 names registered in the ABMC World War II cemetery
data base, and 33,700 names registered in the World War I data
base.
During fiscal years 1998 and 1999, we conducted a
comprehensive manpower review. The results indicated that a
number of downgrades, and upgrades, and new position
descriptions were needed. Based on the survey results, and with
the concurrence of OMB, we implemented position downgrades and
upgrades in May 1999.
This year ABMC and OMB undertook a study to determine if
technology, outsourcing and automation improvements could
reduce the growing cost of foreign employment. The study
indicated we could defer or offset manpower growth by better
using technology, outsourcing and automation. We will now look
at the best way to implement these labor-saving measures.
During fiscal year 2001, we will begin an infrastructure
modernization program. Our cemeteries range in age from 50 to
70 years old. With the help of the Congress and the OMB over
the last 3 years, we have made excellent progress in reducing
our backlog of maintenance and engineering projects. We must
now begin to examine the infrastructure of these aging
facilities and develop a plan to modernize our outdated
systems.
With regard to fiscal responsibility, the U.S. General
Accounting Office gave the ABMC an unqualified opinion on our
financial audits for 1997 and 1998, and I am pleased to report
our recently completed fiscal year 1999 audit also received an
unqualified opinion.
In 1993, Congress directed the American Battle Monuments
Commission to establish the World War II Memorial. Senator Dole
and Mr. Smith have each spoken of the success of our
fundraising campaign. I would like to take this opportunity to
highlight the equally positive support we have received from
the Congress.
In 1999, Congress approved several legislative items which
support the memorial's fundraising efforts. Public Law 106-58,
signed in September 1999, makes the American Battle Monuments
Commission and the World War II Memorial Advisory Board
eligible to use nonprofit standard mail rates for official mail
sent to solicit funds to support the memorial. This legislation
will save the campaign approximately $800,000 in postage, and
was introduced by your committee colleague, Congressman John
McHugh.
Public Law 106-17 signed in November 1999 authorized the
ABMC $65 million in borrowing authority to ensure the timely
construction of the memorial and to comply with the
requirements of the Commemorative Works Act. This authority and
our cash holdings may be used as available funds for the
construction and the 10 percent maintenance fee required to
obtain a construction permit.
The legislation also extended the authorization to build
the memorial to December 31, 2005, and granted the ABMC
permanent authority to solicit and receive funds for the
memorial. These funds will be preserved in the American Battle
Monuments Commission's interest-bearing Treasury accounts
including any funds remaining after the completion of the
memorial.
This committee, as well as the authorizers in the Veterans'
Affairs Committee and the appropriators from the House and
Senate Appropriations Committees, provide us congressional
oversight. The American Battle Monuments Commission World War
II Memorial Trust Fund has been audited annually since 1993 by
the General Accounting Office and an independent CPA firm. As
noted above, we are proud of our unqualified opinions from
these auditors in the last 3 years. In addition, our cost to
raise the dollars is well within the standards established by
the charitable oversight watchdog organizations, such as the
National Charities Information Bureau and the Council of Better
Business Bureaus.
Since 1923, the ABMC's cemeteries and memorials have been
held to a very high standard that reflects America's continuing
commitment to its Honored War Dead, their families and to the
U.S. national image. The Commission intends to continue to
fulfill this sacred trust while seeking ways to improve our
overall management and operational efficiency.
Mr. Chairman, this concludes my statement, and I will be
pleased to answer your questions.
[The prepared statement of General Herrling follows:]
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Mr. Shays. Thank you, General. I appreciate your being
here, and appreciate Mr. Aylward and Mr. Pond being here.
The bottom line is that our committee has oversight of the
Defense Department, the State Department and other agencies,
and one of them is the American Battle Monuments Commission. We
are very pleased that we do have this responsibility. We are
here to look both at the World War II Memorial Campaign and
also what you are doing in general, so we will be kind of
covering both areas.
As it relates to the World War II Memorial Campaign, what
has been the most difficult challenge that--first off, before I
do that, tell me how you interface with the campaign. In other
words, is there a separate organization that you interact with?
Is it your staff that is used? How does that happen?
General Herrling. Sir, back when I first got involved in
this campaign in 1995, our Washington office had a very small
staff of 13 people. So to organize and develop a program for
the World War II Memorial, I had to put together a plan that
would build the fundraising staff and also a committee that
would take a look into the site and design of the memorial.
Over a period of 18 months, we brought people on board for the
fundraising effort; and then our site and design committee took
a look at the specifics of site and design for the memorial.
But it was not an outgrowth of our Washington staff of 13
people, but a separate entity in itself in my office.
Mr. Shays. How large is that organization?
General Herrling. It is about 37 people today.
Mr. Shays. Separate from the 13?
General Herrling. Yes.
Mr. Shays. What has been your biggest challenge as it
relates to the memorial campaign?
General Herrling. The biggest challenge, Mr. Chairman, was
to develop a national program, a program that would reach all
sectors of the country, and I think we have been very
successful in doing that. But for awhile, for about 2 years,
much of the American public was not aware that we were trying
to build----
Mr. Shays. What 2 years?
General Herrling. I would say 1996 and into 1997.
Then when we were able to get Senator Dole to be our
fundraising chairman, it gave us a visibility that we had not
had before. Then as you may know, that ``Saving Private Ryan,''
part of it, was filmed in our cemetery in Normandy; so I wrote
Tom Hanks and asked if he would be our spokesperson, and he
indicated he would. I asked Senator Dole and Fred Smith to call
him on the telephone and get that commitment.
Mr. Shays. So your major challenges now are what?
General Herrling. I am fairly confident that we will finish
up our fundraising efforts by March of next year.
The next major challenge this summer is to get our final
approval from the two approving commissions in Washington, the
Commission of Fine Arts and the National Capital Planning
Commission. It is a three-phase approval process. You go in
with a design concept initially--that was done in 1998--and
then you have to bring in the preliminary design for their
approval; and now this summer we hope to take the final design
before those two approving Commissioners.
Mr. Shays. Mr. Aylward, tell me, from your standpoint, what
has been one of the most difficult challenges?
Mr. Aylward. Mr. Chairman, I came on board about this time,
July 1998; and it was fortuitous at that time that the design
concept was approved in July 1998 because, quite frankly,
people or contributors or potential contributors, be they
corporations, foundations or individuals, whoever they may be,
really want to know that something is going to happen. They
want to see what this entity is, and they want to be
comfortable with the fact that it is going to come to fruition.
So the approvals by the Commission of Fine Arts and
National Capital Planning Commission [NCPC] in July were very
helpful. Then along came Tom Hanks and ``Saving Private Ryan.''
The most difficult part for me has been the necessity to
raise the money as quickly as we have had to; to bring about a
campaign that has national awareness; and I think you have all
been involved in the fundraising arena, so--you know, it is an
extremely competitive environment, whether it be for a
university, a health science center, a political endeavor, or
in the religious community.
In order to be competitive, you have to have recognition by
the American public, and that was really accomplished through
much of what the Tom Hanks ads were able to bring about.
Then we had to reach out to the various constituencies. The
veterans groups began to kick off their campaigns very
aggressively, civic and fraternal organizations, the Knights of
Columbus and others became involved, and slowly but surely it
began to gain momentum and was now really a campaign across
America.
We did institute a very aggressive direct marketing
campaign, and through direct mail.
Mr. Shays. Let me touch on that in a second. But I make the
assumption Mr. Pond, you're going to be here more to respond to
the Commission's work in general; is that accurate?
Mr. Pond. Yes, sir.
Mr. Shays. The--maybe what--I would think the other
extrodinarily difficult task you would have had is just, Mr.
Aylward, the whole placement and design of this monument, I
mean memorial. It's such a--you want it to be so perfect. And
who is prepared to describe to me and to the committee the
monument and the rationale behind it?
Mr. Aylward. General.
General Herrling. Mr. Chairman----
Mr. Shays. We have a picture of it on the wall. We have
obviously the model of it as well.
General Herrling. The first step in the process is finding
a site for the memorial. That was done in 1995. The National
Park Service gave the Commission eight sites to look at. And
they were in various locations around the city of Washington,
and one was on the Columbia Circle, on the other end of the
Memorial Bridge. But there were eight sites. And the site that
was approved by the Department of the Interior, the Commission
of Fine Arts, and the National Capital Planning Commission was
the Rainbow Pool site, the site we have.
Once you have the site, then it's a matter of developing a
design. We went out on a nationwide open design competition,
and in that competition we had over 400 entries. From those
400, 6 were selected as finalists. Out of the six the winning
design and the architect were selected.
Mr. Shays. What are the principles--as I look at this
memorial, it's certainly does seem in keeping with the existing
site. I mean, you have a Reflecting Pool now and you'll have a
Reflecting Pool afterwards. But what are some of the basic
principles that went into this? What will people see when they
go there?
General Herrling. Two of the criteria that we were faced
with was that it could not interfere with the vista from the
Washington Monument to the Lincoln Memorial. That vista had to
remain open.
Mr. Shays. And you've been true to that.
General Herrling. We've been true to that.
Mr. Shays. But after that?
General Herrling. Then you couldn't build anything that was
higher than the existing elm trees, and those elm trees run
between 65 and 70 feet high. So we've got two memorial arches,
one on the north side of the memorial plaza and the other on
the south, they're about 41 feet high from ground level. That
was another criterion. Then there was an additional criterion
as far as access for disabled.
Mr. Shays. But what will people see when they go there? I
see individual pillars. Do they have--do they commemorate?
General Herrling. They do. The individual pillars--and
there are 56 of them--represent each of the States during World
War II and the 8 territories. At that time we had 48 States and
8 territories. Each one of those pillars will have the name of
the State or the territory on it. They represent two things:
the individual strength of the States but also the idea of
national unity, those States coming together and the people in
those States coming together to fight World War II.
On the north side of the memorial and on the south side
you've got two identical memorial arches. As I said, they're 41
feet high at street level. And inside those memorial arches
there is a laurel wreath, a very large bronze laurel wreath
that's being held up by four eagles. Those are to symbolize the
victory won by World War II.
On the western end of the memorial plaza, the closest to
the Reflecting Pool, will be the Wall of Honor. There will be
displayed a field of 4,000 gold stars, each star representing
100 World War II dead, and there are about 406,000 who died. So
there will be 4,000-odd stars on the wall. Then there will be
some type of light of freedom that will come forth from a
broken plane. The broken plane will symbolize the upheaval that
was caused worldwide by World War II, the upheaval of the
entire globe. And out of that upheaval will come this light or
torch, the torch of freedom or light of hope over darkness.
Now, the exact location of that symbolic torch has not been
finalized yet. It may be against the western wall or it may end
up being put in the center of the Rainbow Pool. That hasn't
been decided.
Mr. Shays. Thank you. Mrs. Biggert.
Mrs. Biggert. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It seems almost
incredulous to me that this hasn't been done before. When did
this start? Have there been proposals in the past? I notice,
like 1993 seems to be when it started to gain momentum. Is that
correct?
General Herrling. Mrs. Biggert I don't know if there was
any serious consideration to constructing a World War II
Memorial back shortly after the war. I think everybody assumed,
or many assumed that the Iwo Jima Memorial, which represents
the Marine Corps, was the National World War II Memorial. Of
course it's not. It represents one service and one particular
battle. But it was Roger Durbin, as Senator Dole said, who came
to Congresswoman Marcy Kaptur and said why don't we have a
National World War II Memorial. Now he did that in 1988, and it
took 5 years to get the legislation approved in 1993.
Mrs. Biggert. For the amount of money to be spent to build
this, will there also be a fund for the maintenance? Is that
part of this?
General Herrling. It is part of it. One of the requirements
of the Commemorative Works Act is that in addition to the cost
of construction, we have to provide the National Park Service
10 percent of the construction cost for maintenance of the
memorial in perpetuity. So if the memorial is going to cost
$70,000 we would have to add $7,000 for the maintenance cost.
And that is figured into the overall cost of the memorial.
Mrs. Biggert. Is that something, then, that's kept in a
trust fund for interest, or how does that work?
General Herrling. I'm not sure. The money is turned over to
the National Park Service and they have an account that they
can draw on for that purpose.
Mrs. Biggert. I guess part of what you're doing, too, is
then the looking after the cemeteries and the monuments that
have already been built. What kind of maintenance problems have
you encountered with those cemeteries and monuments?
General Herrling. As I mentioned earlier, those facilities
are anywhere from 50 to 70 years old. The sort of problems we
deal with are structural, electrical, and primarily mechanical.
But then you get into systems like heating and air
conditioning, roofs, irrigation systems, and there's just a lot
of other facets. So it's a very maintenance-intense endeavor.
Mrs. Biggert. But there has been a backlog of maintenance
problems that--will this come out of the same funds that you're
raising, or is this----
General Herrling. No, totally different funds. The American
Battle Monuments Commission has a separate appropriation and
the World War II Memorial is totally different. All those
donations are kept in a separate Treasury account.
Mrs. Biggert. Do people donate for the cemeteries and
monuments or is that just an appropriation from----
General Herrling. That's just an appropriation.
Mrs. Biggert. You haven't done any fundraising on that.
General Herrling. Not at all.
Mrs. Biggert. When Ms. Norton was questioning the
placement, it seemed to be that the biggest thing is the sight
from the entire Mall down to the memorial. But it seems like
you've really taken care of that. What other problems are there
with building it where it is?
General Herrling. Well, it's located, Mrs. Biggert, on a
hundred year floodplain, so there are some problems with the
construction, the foundation of it and things like that; but so
is the FDR Memorial and so is the Lincoln Memorial. They're not
architectural or construction problems that can't be overcome.
I would tell you, though, that when we took the initial
design concept before both those commissions in 1997, they
approved the site. The Commission of Fine Arts approved the
site unanimously, the National Capital Planning Commission
approved it 9 to 2. But they turned down the design. They
thought it was too large in scale for that part of the Mall.
They sent us back and they said we want you to scale it down,
and we'd like it to fit more easily into that particular area,
in that environment on the Mall. We had to go back and almost
completely reengineer much of the design. And then when we took
it back in 1998 they approved the design concept.
Mrs. Biggert. So do you--what other steps for approval do
you have to take before--before you break ground?
General Herrling. The last step hopefully will take place
later this summer when we go before the Commission of Fine Arts
and the National Capital Planning Commission for our final
design approval. With the final design approval and the money
necessary for the construction, we'll be given a permit to go
ahead and have ground breaking.
Mrs. Biggert. Have you a total dollar amount?
General Herrling. The current estimate is that the memorial
design, construction, and maintenance and dedication will come
to about $98.2 million.
Mrs. Biggert. Current.
General Herrling. That could change because we're currently
in the process of going from design documents to construction
documents. The construction documents will be turned over to a
contractor who will give us a much more precise construction
cost.
Mrs. Biggert. Is there Dutch elm disease in Washington?
General Herrling. Is there? Yes, I think some of those
trees on the Mall do suffer from that.
Mrs. Biggert. It's a beautiful concept, the way it is now.
I would hate to lose--the trees be gone.
General Herrling. Well, we changed the design at one point.
We downsized the Rainbow Pool by 15 percent. One of the reasons
was to save some of those elm trees so we wouldn't get into the
root systems. The other reason was so it more architecturally
fit the overall geometry of the Mall.
Mrs. Biggert. Well it's beautiful. Thank you. Thank you,
Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Shays. My colleague.
Mr. Terry. Good morning Mr. Chairman. Sorry I missed the
first part of the hearing but Midwest Express pilots didn't
want to fly faster, contrary to my encouragement.
I just want to make a couple of comments and one question.
First of all I want to congratulate you on not only your
dedication to the cause of the memorial but also on the efforts
of making it a reality. Like you had said, the major component
of making it a reality is the fundraising. From your speech or
your handout, you raised 88--or you used the phrase ``netted
88.''
Mr. Aylward. We netted $88 million.
Mr. Terry. About $10 to $12 million shy of hitting the goal
and----
Mr. Aylward. That's correct. That was as of the end of
April.
Mr. Terry. The word that stood out to me was ``netted.'' So
I assume with the small and efficient productive staff you
have, we aren't owing salaries and some of the stuff that some
charitable organizations--I don't want to call them gimmicks,
it's just normal course to make it look good. So ``netted'' to
me is a term of art. That's pretty impressive if you've netted
$88 million.
Mr. Aylward. That's correct. We have maintained, and I
think General Herrling alluded to it before, that the American
Battle Monuments Commission was a small 13-member organization
here in Washington. So basically what we had to build was a
full fundraising staff. Currently our fundraising expenses are
running about 26 percent of funds raised----
Mr. Terry. That's not bad.
Mr. Aylward [continuing]. 23 percent of all revenue income.
And that includes some initial startup moneys from the
Department of Defense and our interest income. And we are keep
driving the percentage down. Year after year, we have driven
that down from the 40 percentile mark in the initial stages,
down to about 26 percent at this point in time.
Mr. Terry. That's impressive. I appreciate that. Keep that
trend going. That will be helpful.
Mr. Aylward. As long-time fundraisers--I'm uniquely aware
of the costs of raising $1 and its importance to the
contributor.
Mr. Terry. Your expertise is much appreciated, GAO giving
you glowing reports on how you've handled it. That's much
appreciated. Some little things of internal-type management
information systems, I assume all that's--I don't want to call
them minimal--requests have been taken care of, I assume.
General Herrling. I think overall.
Mr. Terry. I take the nod of your head as a yes.
General Herrling. Overall our GAO reports have been very
good. There have been some minor discrepancies they found and
we've corrected those and we're moving on. But basically we had
three unqualified opinions and I don't think that GAO has found
one problem with our World War II Memorial fundraising.
Mr. Terry. Which is a real accomplishment and you should be
congratulated on that. I've read some of the other GAO reports
for other entities that weren't as glowing. To read one as
positive as this is impressive.
Last question, real quickly. I did get pulled aside at one
of the Memorial Day events by a Vietnam veteran, I didn't
exactly know what he was talking about, but he was somewhat
critical of this. Is there an undercurrent in some of the
veteran committees that are critical of this? I have never
heard of any criticism until the Vietnam vet mentioned
something. It wasn't real specific.
General Herrling. Addressing Vietnam vets particularly,
there may be a few that have a particular feeling against this
memorial, but I would tell you that the Vietnam Veterans
Foundation donated $25,000 to us. So I think most of the
Vietnam veterans are in support of this program. I would say
that most veterans in the country, the veterans' organizations,
have raised $10 million and will raise more. And they do that
internally through their own programs. But we have had
tremendous support from veterans' organizations. And we have
tried to keep them involved in the design of the memorial.
Mr. Aylward. We get tremendous communication from veterans
and the World War II generation through letters, through e-mail
and other mechanisms. They call us quite often to touch base
with us.
Mr. Shays. Mr. Pond, did you have something you wanted to
say on this--because I will get to you.
Mr. Pond. Mr. Chairman, I would go back to your original
question, since you aksed what was the most difficult task, and
I would like to address that. When Congress gave us the mission
to raise $100 million and to build a memorial, the raising of
funds was a foreign task to our small government agency. We sat
with the secretary and executive director our 11 staffers and a
huge mission and 11 Presidential appointees who are great
Americans who gave us policy guidance. We all placed our
concentration on this because, as the committee knows, there
had been other people who--and Senator Dole alluded to it--had
raised money and squandered it. We had the task not only to
raise the money but to guard that money as Americans' dollars
and to build a good memorial.
It caused us to concentrate in one area so heavily that on
occasion we had to remind ourselves that we had 350 employees,
in 12 countries, running 24 of the most magnificent cemeteries
in the world. We are fortunate that if we ever slacked off in
that regard, about 96 percent of our U.S. employees are retired
members of the Armed Forces of the United States who work daily
with their head as well as their heart. So we hope that we did
not slip, but if we did, I can assure you that they picked up
the gap.
The most difficult thing for us was to remember those folks
that are doing that fantastic job in the field as well as the
job that we had to do here. And I might say that Mr. Aylward,
Senator Dole, Mr. Smith, Tom Hanks, and all of those who have
come forward to help the American Battle Monuments Commission
have just done a magnificent job.
Mr. Shays. Let me ask about the fundraising, not to be--I
would be derelict in our duty if we didn't pursue the 26
percent a little better. First off, I'm unclear as to how much
money actually sits in the bank. Where has it been used?
Mr. Aylward. About $50 million, sir.
Mr. Shays. Of the $100 million that you hope to raise, are
you basically saying that $25 million of it will be used--will
have been used to raise money and we will have $75 million, or
are you saying----
Mr. Aylward. No, we're saying it will cost us about $139
million overall to raise the $100 million. And that will be
able to maintain the office or the World War II endeavor out
through approximately the early spring of 2003.
Mr. Shays. Mr. Aylward, your staff is about 33 people,
total.
Mr. Aylward. We have about 33 people.
Mr. Shays. So the total cost of running that staff plus
doing all the--some are actually involved in the fundraising
effort--all of that is included in the $139 million.
Mr. Aylward. It's all included in the $139; public
relations, everything. But the staffing will go down. We've
already started an exit strategy based on the fact that we're
closing in on our goal.
Mr. Shays. The $139 million--of the $139 million, how much
have you raised? When we're looking at that $100 million, I
would say you have $14\1/2\ million today, let's call it a day.
Mr. Aylward. With Wal-Mart today, we have raised $122.1
million, so we have about $17 million to go.
Mr. Shays. $122 what?
Mr. Aylward. $122.1 million.
Mr. Shays. And you're going to be raising about $139.
Mr. Aylward. $139.6 million. That $139 million may come
down. This is a fluid projection of the budget and we are
continuing to reevaluate whether we can reduce costs, for
example, a direct mail letter in a certain month or another
program that would save us substantial funds.
Mr. Shays. Now people can be following this hearing right
now on the Internet. On the Internet right now, people can be
following this hearing.
Mr. Aylward. Yes.
Mr. Shays. How would someone make a contribution on the
Internet?
Mr. Aylward. There's two ways. They can make it directly
right into the Treasury, just like you would do through a
credit card number or an account number, or many people
download the form and send it in to us. So about 60 percent of
our Internet----
Mr. Shays. So what's your Web site and how do people, if
they wanted to make a contribution right now, take advantage of
this?
Mr. Aylward. They could call our 1-800 number, 1-800 639-
4WW2.
General Herrling. And the Internet site.
Mr. Shays. The 800 number is passe right now. We want to
get to--if you want to say the 800 No. 1 more time, but then
let's get to the something more. What's the 800 number site
again?
Mr. Aylward. The 1-800 number? 1-800-639-4WW2.
Mr. Shays. OK. And your Web site?
General Herrling. The Web site is www.WWIImemorial.com.
Mr. Shays. You want to give it one more time?
General Herrling. www.WWIImemorial.com.
Mr. Shays. Someone can just get into the system and make a
contribution using their credit card.
General Herrling. As Mr. Aylward said, a lot of people
bring up the form on the Internet site and just download it and
print the form out and send it in.
Mr. Shays. So if they don't want to use a credit card and
do that, they can do that.
General Herrling. That's correct.
Mr. Shays. Let me--just before we go to our next panel,
just talk to me briefly about the overall task that you have
with your 13 staff members who have a budget of about $28--you
requested $28 million for next year; is that correct?
General Herrling. Our request was $26.2 million.
Mr. Shays. That enables you to take care of all these sites
around the world. I was intrigued to know you had a site in
Mexico City.
General Herrling. That site, Mr. Chairman, goes back to
1847 in our war with Mexico. There are 750 U.S. soldiers buried
there.
Mr. Shays. Now just refresh me on my American history. That
is celebrating, from the Mexican standpoint, what?
General Herrling. I'm----
Mr. Shays. In other words, I understand we have soldiers
buried in Europe, and they gladly donated this land in
gratitude to the men and women who gave their lives defending
freedom in Europe. The sites in Panama and the site in Mexico
City commemorates what from the standpoints of the host
country?
General Herrling. I don't know that it commemorates--it has
the same meaning that we attach to it. But those governments
provided us with the space and gave us that ground in
perpetuity for those cemeteries.
Mr. Shays. I find that intriguing really. And we have
visitors that visit these sites both from the United States and
within the indigenous countries?
General Herrling. Yes, we do. In fact, I'm not talking
specifically about Mexico City or Panama, but in our 24
cemeteries around the world the visitors last year were about
10\1/2\ million people.
Mr. Shays. Through all the sites.
General Herrling. Through all the cemeteries.
Mr. Shays. How has the Commission addressed the problems
that GAO noted concerning its internal controls over
information technology systems? In other words, you got a good
audit but with some reservations.
General Herrling. Yes, and those reservations are called
material weaknesses. They had to do with a lack of user
documentation in the four offices we have around the world. The
systems didn't have an automatic lockout procedure to prevent
people from getting into that data. There was an inadequate
continuity plan and inadequate storage procedures. But most of
those have been corrected. Now what few items remain open are
only to a reportable condition. So we've taken a very serious
step to eliminating what the GAO had pointed out to us back in
1997 and 1998.
Mr. Shays. Is there anything that any of you, three of you,
would like to say before we get on to our next panel?
General Herrling. Sir, I would just say, like Mr. Pond, I
think it's unprecedented in some regard that a Federal agency
the size of ours, was given the task of raising $100 million
and building this memorial. It's a task that we've really taken
on with vigor. But I don't think any other Federal agency has
ever been asked to raise $100 million. That's something we've
done and we've enjoyed and we've learned a lot by it, but I
wouldn't want to be asked to do it again.
Mr. Shays. Again, Mr. Pond, Mr. Aylward, any comments, any
questions we should have asked you that you would like to ask
yourself?
Mr. Pond. I would only say, Mr. Chairman, that we ask you
and all of your colleagues, when you travel on your trips
throughout the world--we have passed to you our annual report
and it shows exactly where all of our cemeteries are located--
we would be deeply honored if you would take time out of your
schedule when you're in those foreign countries to visit our
cemeteries.
Mr. Shays. Thank you very much. Thank you gentlemen.
Appreciate you being here. Appreciate your work.
I now invite David Clark, Director, Audit Oversight and
Liaison Accounting and Information Management Division, U.S.
General Accounting Office, and Dennis Cullinan, director,
legislative services, Veterans of Foreign Wars of the United
States--ask you both to stand because I'll be swearing you in.
[Witnesses sworn.]
Mr. Shays. Thank you gentlemen. I appreciate your patience
in waiting for this panel to be called and thank you, Mr.
Clark, for coming here. Sometimes we isolate GAO as a separate
panel, but happy to have representative from Veterans of
Foreign Wars here as well, and to say in a sense you speak for
all your fellow veterans and other veterans groups. I think
they are down in New Orleans commemorating the D-Day invasion
and the monument there. So we thank you. You're doing double
duty Mr. Cullinan.
Mr. Clark, we'll let you start.
STATEMENTS OF DAVID L. CLARK, DIRECTOR, AUDIT OVERSIGHT AND
LIAISON, ACCOUNTING AND INFORMATION MANAGEMENT DIVISION, U.S.
GENERAL ACCOUNTING OFFICE; AND DENNIS CULLINAN, DIRECTOR,
LEGISLATIVE SERVICES, VETERANS OF FOREIGN WARS OF THE UNITED
STATES
Mr. Clark. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It's both an honor and
a pleasure to be here. It's an honor to be in the company of
Senator Dole, General Herrling and the others in this room who
have worked hard to commemorate the services of American Armed
Forces and to help establish a World War II Memorial.
And it's a pleasure to be here for two reasons. First, I've
testified before this subcommittee before on the subject of
accountability. A couple years ago I was here to talk about
strengthening the accountability over Employee Retirement
Income Security, that act, and employee benefit plans. In fact
you may recall, Mr. Chairman, I was on a panel and you asked us
to come up and sit up with you while you asked questions of
another panel, which was an interesting and rather exhilarating
experience, I might add.
Mr. Shays. We only did it once.
Mr. Clark. Darn.
Second, I'm pleased to be here because, as Mr. Terry I
think pointed out real well, we have a positive story to tell.
And for those who are familiar with GAO testimony, that's not
always the case. So it's nice to be able to do that every now
and then.
GAO first began auditing ABMC in 1983 when Congress created
the World War II fund. At that time, ABMC did not prepare
agency-wide financial statements, and the law required only
that we audit the revenue and expenditures of the memorial
fund. In fiscal year 1997, ABMC began preparing agency-wide
statements and we began auditing them. We strongly supported
the legislation requiring ABMC to prepare the statements and we
commend ABMC for both their efforts in preparing the statements
and their cooperation in responding to our audits.
Agency-wide financial audits are vitally important in
ensuring accountability, principally because they determine the
reliability of financial information reported, provide
information on the adequacy of systems and controls used to
ensure accurate financial reports, safeguard assets and report
on agencies' compliance with laws and regulations.
As has been discussed this morning, ABMC has successfully
prepared financial statements for each of the past 3 fiscal
years and we have given ABMC an unqualified or clean opinion on
their statements for each of those years.
Importantly, ABMC statements now provide a separate column
or counting for the World War II fund, which is critical given
the importance of the fund and the fact that the fund now
comprises the majority of ABMC financing sources and assets.
Specifically, we have reported that ABMC's financial
statements are reliable in all material respects, internal
controls over financial reporting are effective, and that we
found no reportable instances of noncompliance with the
selected provisions of laws and regulations we tested.
I want to stress that ABMC has promptly and effectively
responded to all of our audits and has resolved virtually all
of the issues and concerns we have raised. For example, in
response to our audits, ABMC has strengthened its controls over
cash, developed and implemented effective policies regarding
the recording of accounts payable as other accruals, and better
segregated duties among its staff to better strengthen its
controls over goods purchased.
ABMC is also in the midst of acquiring a new integrated
accounting system, which when implemented should substantially
resolve the few issues that remain outstanding. For example,
the new system will provide more comprehensive controls over
passwords and internal access to ABMC's accounting and
disbursing systems. The ABMC has approached this issue with the
utmost care and thoroughness and plans to have a new system in
place by next year.
Before I close, I think it's important to put ABMC's
financial accountability in context. Preparing financial
statements with a clean audit opinion is not a small feat.
Unlike ABMC, many Federal departments and agencies today still
cannot produce reliable financial statements, continuing to be
plagued by significant financial management weaknesses,
problems with fundamental recordkeeping and financial
reporting, incomplete documentation and weak internal control,
including computer controls.
ABMC, on the other hand, after being in business
successfully for nearly 75 years without agency-wide
statements, and with almost no advance notice, had to quickly
document, develop, and implement new accounting policies,
procedures and systems, and to develop financial statements
almost from scratch. They had to do that at the same time, I
might point out, while subjecting itself to a comprehensive
audit from us. The agency not only did this and did it well,
but in a sense has become a model for other Federal agencies
through a number of accomplishments, not the least of which is
complying early with difficult new accounting standards
requiring the computation and reporting of deferred
maintenance.
We believe that ABMC should be commended for its efforts,
its progress and its accomplishments in this regard. That
concludes my summary statement.
Mr. Shays. Thank you, Mr. Clark.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Clark follows:]
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Mr. Shays. Mr. Cullinan.
Mr. Cullinan. Thank you very much.
Mr. Shays. How do you say your name properly?
Mr. Cullinan. Cullinan.
Mr. Shays. Cullinan.
Mr. Cullinan. It's just like Culligan but Cullinan.
Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, members of the
committee. Before beginning, I must say in this particular
instance it is indeed a pleasure to be sitting at the same
table as a representative of the General Accounting Office.
Mr. Shays. So noted.
Mr. Cullinan. It's not often that I would say that.
Mr. Clark. It won't work, but go ahead.
Mr. Cullinan. I am pleased to be here today representing
the men and women of Veterans of Foreign Wars and our Ladies
Auxiliary and, in fact, all of America's veterans, to voice our
steadfast support on behalf of the National World War II
Memorial. The VFW recognizes the importance of supporting the
World War II Memorial both morally and philosophically. As you
know, more than 400,000 Americans lost their lives during World
War II. An additional 672,000 were wounded. It was a time of
great sacrifice for this country but also a time when our
veterans displayed tremendous valor, commitment and vision, and
helped firmly establish the United States as a world power.
The VFW, which includes close to 1 million World War II
veterans among its membership, believes that this well-deserved
and long-overdue recognition of veterans will not only honor
the spirit of those who served but also pay homage to the
legacy of an entire generation of Americans who lived during
World War II.
At this juncture, I would express our special thanks,
especially on behalf of our men and women from the great State
of Ohio, to Congresswoman Marcy Kaptur for having taken the
lead in this instance. The VFW is so committed to seeing the
World War II Memorial become a reality that a grassroots
membership including Vietnam veterans has already raised over 3
million for this noble purpose. Within a year we are nearly
half way to meeting our goal of $7.5 million, making us the
second largest single contributor and first among all veterans
service organizations.
Individual VFW members also played an instrumental role in
facilitating and contributing to the single largest collection
effort made by Wal-Mart. A number of those World War II
veterans, as Senator Dole referenced earlier, who work in Wal-
Mart are also VFW members.
To honor those courageous veterans who in their youth saved
the world, the VFW has given unprecedented support to ensure
that their sacrifices are always remembered for generations to
come. The VFW will match donations at a rate of $1 for every $2
donated by VFW members, post, and the general public. Although
the memorial is within reach of fulfilling its goal of
completion, time is still of the essence. It is estimated that
fewer than half of the 16 million men and women who served
during the Second World War are still alive. The VFW will
continue to work to ensure that these funds are used for the
portions of the memorial dedicated to those who died in the
service to this Nation during that great conflict.
We especially commend the American Battle Monuments
Commission as well as the Memorial Campaign for the yeoman
service they have offered up in this regard.
Mr. Chairman, this concludes my testimony. I would be happy
to answer any questions you may have.
Mr. Shays. Thank you very much.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Cullinan follows:]
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Mr. Shays. I first want to commend the VFW for setting a
goal of $7.5 million. That's truly extraordinary with all the
other activities that have--you and the services you provide,
to take that on as an obligation is quite commendable.
Mr. Cullinan. Thank you very much.
Mr. Shays. I want to be clear, Mr. Clark, you audit both
the Commission as well as the memorial fund.
Mr. Clark. We began auditing just the memorial fund in
1993. So for 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996, that's all that we
audited, and we issued a separate report just on that. Now what
we have is a comprehensive set of financial statements which
includes all of ABMC's operation. If you look at the financial
statements, you will see that there's a separate column on the
financial statements just for the World War II funds. So you
can see the whole ABMC at one time, and within those statements
see the separate funds for the World War II fund.
Mr. Shays. So just address the fund itself. The fund is
sound; how would you describe the effort on the fund?
Mr. Clark. I would like to point out first, our purpose is
to ensure that the financial statements accurately reflect what
ABMC has in the fund, what it has spent, what its obligations
may be. And that is fairly presented or it's accurate. If you
go beyond that, you will see that the fund in fact is healthy.
As the witnesses were testifying earlier, we were over here, we
were reconciling those numbers and they sounded accurate to us.
Our report is as of last September 30th, so we are assuming the
numbers you have today are much updated.
Mr. Shays. They've raised significant funds since then. Can
you address the concept of 26 percent of the cost going into
the fundraising effort? Is that something you can address? If
not, I don't want you to. In other words, is that something you
spoke to?
Mr. Clark. That is not something we look at specifically.
Mr. Shays. But you verify basically that they allocated so
much for fundraising, they raised so much.
Mr. Clark. Yes.
Mr. Shays. Mr. Cullinan, do you want to speak about the
efforts to raise funds in general and your sense of how they're
doing?
Mr. Cullinan. Actually I would, Mr. Chairman. I think this
is a terrific example of a movement that's from the bottom up.
You know, in many things, especially with respect to what does
and does not get done here on Capitol Hill, the national
organization takes the lead. But this is an example where the
individual members, auxiliary members, our VFW posts throughout
the Nation, took it upon themselves to not only initiate action
but to follow through.
There's almost a humorous side bar reference to our efforts
on behalf of Wal-Mart earlier, and indeed I believe our
membership played a significant role. But as a veterans service
organization with a set goal of $7.5 million, we would have
liked for them to make their financial donations through the
VFW. Sometimes they were so zealous, so enthused about seeing
this World War II Memorial become reality, they went through
Wal-Mart or elsewhere. So I think that says it all. It's in the
hearts and souls of the VFW membership, the grassroots.
Mr. Shays. A family affair, isn't it?
Mr. Cullinan. A family affair.
Mr. Shays. Would you just want to address the site location
and how you all resolve it in your organization's mind?
Mr. Cullinan. We are not professing to being experts in
matters of architecture or esthetics. The VFW is on record in
support of the site location. We've testified twice before the
Congress in this regard as well as the Fine Arts Commission and
elsewhere, you know. Our objective as a veterans organization
is to ensure that the best possible memorial be constructed in
honor of the heroes of the Second World War, and that's our
perspective.
Mr. Shays. As I look at the site, I see an archway with
people. I guess in the model it represents people. And you
realize that's still quite an impressive site, even though they
toned it down a bit. But as someone who went, evolved from
being opposed to the site to someone who supports it based on
two things--one, the fact that they did make it more in keeping
size-wise, but also they basically maintain the Reflecting Pool
as it pretty much is--I mean, it will be slightly different--
and the site line.
So I think what they did was a very acceptable and more
than acceptable job of conforming to the concerns that some
people expressed, and still being in a place that people will
see and enjoy. So I think it's--I think they did well. That's
kind of how I evolved in that process.
I don't have other questions. Mrs. Biggert, do you have
questions you would like to ask?
Mrs. Biggert. Well, since this report is so good, it's
really hard to ask any questions.
Mr. Shays. We don't have to make news.
Mrs. Biggert. That's right. I might just ask, Mr. Cullinan,
do you think that your sources for fundraising are pretty
tapped out? I mean, are there more members that you can go to
or is this----
Mr. Cullinan. This is a conversation yesterday afternoon
with our Kansas City headquarters. They're the ones who
coordinate the matching program and are in touch with our
various posts and grassroots representatives. From what they
tell me, enthusiasm is still there. Yes, it is quite a burden
and there are many things that they're asked to contribute to,
many worthy things. But this seems to be a very special issue,
I would emphasize, not just for the World War II veterans but
veterans of other wars as well.
Mrs. Biggert. So you think you'll have no problem reaching
your goal.
Mr. Cullinan. I think it looks good.
Mr. Shays. She does that after every question that she
asks.
Let me ask you gentlemen if you have any comments. Your
testimony is on the record and you did hear testimony that
preceded you. If you want to respond to any comment or question
that was asked of the previous panel, be happy to have you
respond to it.
Mr. Clark. Not from me, sir.
Mr. Cullinan. We want to thank and congratulate you for
having today's hearing.
Mr. Shays. Thank you both. It's very exciting. Truly, Mr.
Clark, I know if you had felt there were concerns, you would
have voiced them. So I think your audit is one which we're
happy to hear about, and congratulate the Commission and look
forward to this memorial, this monument, this shrine to our
World War II veterans and the generation in general being
built, and happy that we have a lot of good things to look
forward to.
And we'll just reemphasize, you had suggested that maybe
more than half--Mr. Dole had used the number 6 million of the
16 million still living--obviously it's somewhere in that
number--but 1,000 a day, veterans that we are losing. I want to
have as many veterans as possible see this facility, and I
congratulate Ms. Kaptur on the other side of the aisle for
acting on a constituent concern and Congress following through
on it and the administration and the agency moving forward.
And so I thank all who participated in this hearing, and we
will adjourn. In fact, we will close the hearing. Thank you.
[Whereupon, at 11:46 a.m., the subcommittee was adjourned.]