    [House Hearing, 106 Congress]
    [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]

          DEPARTMENTS OF COMMERCE, JUSTICE, AND STATE, THE JUDICIARY,

                  AND RELATED AGENCIES APPROPRIATIONS FOR 2001

                     DEPARTMENTS OF COMMERCE, JUSTICE, AND

                       STATE, THE JUDICIARY, AND RELATED

                        AGENCIES APPROPRIATIONS FOR 2001

    _______________________________________________________________________

                                    HEARINGS

                                    BEFORE A

                               SUBCOMMITTEE OF THE

                           COMMITTEE ON APPROPRIATIONS

                             HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                           ONE HUNDRED SIXTH CONGRESS
                                 SECOND SESSION
                                    ________
      SUBCOMMITTEE ON THE DEPARTMENTS OF COMMERCE, JUSTICE, AND STATE, THE
                        JUDICIARY, AND RELATED AGENCIES
                        HAROLD ROGERS, Kentucky, Chairman
     JIM KOLBE, Arizona                  JOSE E. SERRANO, New York
     CHARLES H. TAYLOR, North Carolina   JULIAN C. DIXON, California
     RALPH REGULA, Ohio                  ALAN B. MOLLOHAN, West Virginia
     TOM LATHAM, Iowa                    LUCILLE ROYBAL-ALLARD, California
     DAN MILLER, Florida
     ZACH WAMP, Tennessee

     NOTE: Under Committee Rules, Mr. Young, as Chairman of the Full
    Committee, and Mr. Obey, as Ranking Minority Member of the Full
    Committee, are authorized to sit as Members of all Subcommittees.
        Gail Del Balzo, Jennifer Miller, Mike Ringler, and Christine Ryan
                               Subcommittee Staff
                                    ________
                                     PART 9
                   TESTIMONY OF MEMBERS OF CONGRESS AND OTHER
                    INTERESTED INDIVIDUALS AND ORGANIZATIONS

                                    ________
             Printed for the use of the Committee on Appropriations
                                    ________
                         U.S. GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE
     64-897                     WASHINGTON : 2000

                            COMMITTEE ON APPROPRIATIONS

                       C. W. BILL YOUNG, Florida, Chairman

     RALPH REGULA, Ohio                  DAVID R. OBEY, Wisconsin
     JERRY LEWIS, California             JOHN P. MURTHA, Pennsylvania
     JOHN EDWARD PORTER, Illinois        NORMAN D. DICKS, Washington
     HAROLD ROGERS, Kentucky             MARTIN OLAV SABO, Minnesota
     JOE SKEEN, New Mexico               JULIAN C. DIXON, California
     FRANK R. WOLF, Virginia             STENY H. HOYER, Maryland
     TOM DeLAY, Texas                    ALAN B. MOLLOHAN, West Virginia
     JIM KOLBE, Arizona                  MARCY KAPTUR, Ohio
     RON PACKARD, California             NANCY PELOSI, California
     SONNY CALLAHAN, Alabama             PETER J. VISCLOSKY, Indiana
     JAMES T. WALSH, New York            NITA M. LOWEY, New York
     CHARLES H. TAYLOR, North Carolina   JOSE E. SERRANO, New York
     DAVID L. HOBSON, Ohio               ROSA L. DeLAURO, Connecticut
     ERNEST J. ISTOOK, Jr., Oklahoma     JAMES P. MORAN, Virginia
     HENRY BONILLA, Texas                JOHN W. OLVER, Massachusetts
     JOE KNOLLENBERG, Michigan           ED PASTOR, Arizona
     DAN MILLER, Florida                 CARRIE P. MEEK, Florida
     JAY DICKEY, Arkansas                DAVID E. PRICE, North Carolina
     JACK KINGSTON, Georgia              MICHAEL P. FORBES, New York
     RODNEY P. FRELINGHUYSEN, New Jersey CHET EDWARDS, Texas
     ROGER F. WICKER, Mississippi        ROBERT E. ``BUD'' CRAMER, Jr.,
     GEORGE R. NETHERCUTT, Jr.,          Alabama
    Washington                           MAURICE D. HINCHEY, New York
     RANDY ``DUKE'' CUNNINGHAM,          LUCILLE ROYBAL-ALLARD, California
    California                           SAM FARR, California
     TODD TIAHRT, Kansas                 JESSE L. JACKSON, Jr., Illinois
     ZACH WAMP, Tennessee                CAROLYN C. KILPATRICK, Michigan
     TOM LATHAM, Iowa                    ALLEN BOYD, Florida
     ANNE M. NORTHUP, Kentucky
     ROBERT B. ADERHOLT, Alabama
     JO ANN EMERSON, Missouri
     JOHN E. SUNUNU, New Hampshire
     KAY GRANGER, Texas
     JOHN E. PETERSON, Pennsylvania
     VIRGIL H. GOODE, Jr., Virginia

                       James W. Dyer, Clerk and Staff Director

                                      (ii)

    DEPARTMENTS OF COMMERCE, JUSTICE, AND STATE, THE JUDICIARY, AND RELATED
                        AGENCIES APPROPRIATIONS FOR 2001

                                  ----------

     TESTIMONY OF MEMBERS OF CONGRESS AND OTHER INTERESTED INDIVIDUALS AND
                                 ORGANIZATIONS

                                  ----------

                                              Thursday, March 23, 2000.

                                 COPS PROGRAMS

                                    WITNESS

    HON. PETER J. VISCLOSKY, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF
        INDIANA
        Mr. Rogers. The committee will be in order. This commences
    the hearing at which individual Members of Congress will
    present their views on various aspects of the administration's
    budget request for fiscal year 2001. Your statements will be
    made a part of the record, and we hope you can summarize and
    keep your remarks within the 5-minute frame, and we assure you
    that if you do you will be given more favorable treatment.
        We will begin with the gentleman from Indiana, Mr.
    Visclosky. Welcome to you to your subcommittee.
        Mr. Visclosky. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I
    want to thank you and every member of the committee for your
    judgment as well as your generosity for the last several years.
    Mr. LoBiondo and I have introduced the Bulletproof Vest
    Partnership Grant Act which was originally authorized 2 years
    ago. It was a new start in both of the last two fiscal years
    and you fully funded the program.
        I am convinced today that there are police officers alive
    in the United States of America that would be dead but for the
    decision you and the members of the subcommittee made. I thank
    you very much and very sincerely for your judgment and
    generosity.
        Obviously on behalf of Mr. LoBiondo and myself, we again
    appreciate the subcommittee's consideration as far as funding
    of the program.
        Additionally the subcommittee also was very generous last
    year in earmarking $2.5 million for the Hoosier SAFE-T
    Communication Program. Over the course of years we will need
    about $66 million. The request this year is for a follow-on of
    $3 million.
        The final item is a new item, an earmark for the First
    Congressional District of Indiana of $50,000 for an automated
    fingerprint identification system (AFIS).
        Mr. Chairman, I appreciate your courtesy and again your
    consideration in the past years and for your time today.
        [The information follows:]
             [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Mr. Rogers. Well, I want to I thank the gentleman. It was
    his legislation that led to the bulletproof vest authorization
    and we jumped on it here and quickly found the moneys to fund
    it. It was a very worthwhile expenditure of funds and I agree
    with you, I think there are some law enforcement officers who
    are alive today because of it.
        I thank you for your contribution to a very important
    program.
        Mr. Visclosky. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        Mr. Rogers. Thank you. Mr. Cramer. Oh, by the way, Mr.
    Visclosky, you get extra points for keeping it brief.
        Mr. Visclosky. That is what I was counting on, Mr.
    Chairman.
                                  ----------

                                              Thursday, March 23, 2000.

                      CHILDREN'S ADVOCACY CENTER PROGRAMS

                                    WITNESS

    HON. BUD CRAMER, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF ALABAMA
        Mr. Cramer. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you, Mr.
    Serrano, as well. I am back again on behalf of the National
    Children's Advocacy Center Programs.
        Mr. Chairman, since 1993 this committee has funded this
    national network. Because of your support we now have 500
    children's advocacy center programs around this country. We did
    a brief on the committee members. Every district represented on
    this committee has a children advocacy center program in it. We
    are rescuing children.
        The beauty of this program, Mr. Chairman, is the money that
    has been appropriated has acted as seed money. These programs
    come into existence and are supported mainly by the private
    sector in all of the communities where they exist. These are
    programs that umbrella community resources that allow the law
    enforcement detectives, the child protective service workers,
    mental health practitioners, law enforcement to come together
    to interview together children and family members that are
    going through certain processes. It might be the criminal
    justice system where children were removed from parents. All of
    these children are child abuse victims, many of them severely
    injured and many of them child sexual abuse victims.
        So on behalf of them I thank you. And just quickly because
    you challenged me to be brief and I want to be brief because I
    want to be rewarded, the congressional spouses have adopted
    this as their program, so locally here with D.C.'s children
    advocacy center called Safe Shores. And it has taken the
    District--which has a remarkable set of circumstances to deal
    with here with this resource scatterings, it has taken them a
    few years to get their program established called Safe Shores.
    What the congressional spouses are going to help make it happen
    here is they are going to help locate our national headquarters
    for this program. The District has given us a school on Capitol
    Hill, the Gales School across the Hill. And the spouses and the
    local program's board is going to raise money so we can locate
    our national office of this program that this committee has
    caused to be created.
        I am just here on behalf of the Children's Advocacy Center
    Program to say thank you. Mr. Chairman, you might remember this
    program started when I was a district attorney in my prior
    political life. In my prior political professional life I was
    DA there in Huntsville, Alabama for 10 years. And it was there
    on the front line that I saw these children coming through the
    system and saw that the system was reabusing them. It wasn't
    working together and it wasn't rescuing them. So we started the
    first children's advocacy center program there in Huntsville,
    Alabama. That is going back in the early days until now we have
    seen hundreds of these rise up.
        We thank the committee for its support.
        [The information follows:]
             [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Mr. Serrano. I think that was smart that you reminded the
    chairman that you were a prosecutor.
        Mr. Cramer. Oh, okay.
        Mr. Rogers. Well, the gentleman, again, is the father of
    this program. He is the one that came up with the idea and
    promoted it all of the way through. Quickly, he convinced us of
    the wisdom of it and we have been able to fund a good number of
    these. We think they are doing a good job and you have done a
    wonderful job in proposing it.
        Mr. Cramer. Thank you.
        Mr. Rogers. Thank you and you are a very valuable member of
    the Appropriations Committee. You have some points stacked up
    for you there.
        Mr. Cramer. Barely. It is a challenge for a Southerner to
    talk fast.
                                  ----------

                                              Thursday, March 23, 2000.

                        TESTIMONY OF MEMBERS OF CONGRESS

                                    WITNESS

    HON. ELIJAH CUMMINGS, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF
        MARYLAND
        Mr. Rogers. Mr. Cummings.
        Mr. Cummings. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I represent the 17th
    Congressional District of Baltimore. According to the Statistic
    Abstract of the United States for 1998, of the 15 largest
    cities in the United States, Baltimore ranks first in overall
    crime rates at more than 12,000 criminal offenses per 100,000
    city residents. We also rank first in violent crime rates,
    2,722 violent crimes committed per 100,000 residents and second
    in property crime rates, 9,278 property crimes per 100,000
    residents. These are firsts that I would rather not win and I
    know my constituents would rather not win them either.
        More than 72,000 people moved out of Baltimore during the
    1990s, a rate of 600 per month and the second highest rate of
    population loss in America. While not solely attributable to
    crime rates, there is certainly a correlation with the urban
    flight experience by Baltimore.
        Furthermore, Baltimore City has experienced a significant
    dropoff in the number of officers serving on the police force.
    As of July 31, 1999, there were 2,985 actual sworn members of
    the Baltimore City Police Department. 3,222 positions were
    funded and so the city currently has about 337 vacancies. The
    current vacancy rate of the Baltimore Police Department is
    especially high due to the recent offering of deferred
    retirement option program, which saved money for the city but
    was a disastrous operational impact on the Police Department.
    Over the past 6 years the sworn vacancy rate has averaged 110
    officers. This rate is significant because if these positions
    were filled they would create a fully staffed drug enforcement
    and tactical unit of three-fourths of the personnel necessary
    for a police district. The Department has been unable to get
    enough qualified candidates to fill these slots.
        While the police force shrinks crime increases,
    particularly drug-related crime. At present the police
    estimates suggest that there are roughly 50 open drug markets
    in Baltimore. These sites, which are often located near city
    schools or other areas where young people gather, have become
    commonplace in Baltimore because Baltimore's resources are
    stretched very thinly. Roughly 2,900 children are arrested each
    year for purchasing narcotics from drug dealers who prey on
    them. The city's new mayor has set the goal of permanently
    eliminating a minimum of 10 of these open air markets within
    the next 6 months.
        Clearly, Mr. Chairman, if this Congress is to live up to
    the commitment that we all share, Republican and Democrat, to
    help ensure public safety in our urban centers as well as in
    rural suburban communities, more resources must be provided to
    those on the frontlines of the war against crime.
        I want to spend just a short while talking about the
    appropriation request I have made to the subcommittee today on
    behalf of Mayor O'Malley and our city. I have asked the
    subcommittee to provide $10 million in fiscal year 2001 funding
    for a multi-faceted violent crime reduction initiative to help
    reverse the tide of crime in my home city.
        I requested funding to reinstate a Police Cadet Program,
    which would serve as a way to recruit and provide young adults
    with an education and career path to work police academy. The
    police could actually assist in operating and expanding the
    Police Athletic League Program and serve as mentors for
    community youth in after school programs.
        Funding was also requested to support overtime for officers
    services necessary to close down the Baltimore open drug
    markets. Currently many officers would like to volunteer for
    overtime to patrol the neighborhoods where dope dealers peddle
    their poison, but the Police Department lacks the resources
    that would permit them to serve.
        At present Baltimore City's homicide detectives investigate
    roughly 300 murders each year with outdated technology and
    training that is often behind the cutting edge. With earmarked
    funding the city would be able to assist these detectives in
    the use of state of the art forensic technologies such as DNA
    analysis, voice stress analysis, blood spatters, crime scene
    management, and other new investigative tools.
        The Baltimore City Police Department would also purchase
    new computer software. Right now officers spend between 25 and
    50 percent of their time in station houses filling out reports
    from arrests they have made. My request would support
    technologies that would reduce the amount of time police
    officers spend in-house so that these men and women can go back
    to walking the beats on Baltimore's streets.
        Finally, supporting my request would enable the Baltimore
    City Police Department to purchase 55 new vehicles, 55 unmarked
    vehicles for violent crime investigators and 10 unmarked cars
    for the homicide unit. Baltimore Police Department estimates
    that 232 out of the department's 850 marked and unmarked
    vehicles are out of service due to excessive milage and
    departmental accidents. By providing these resources the
    subcommittee would send a loud and clear message to the
    citizens of Baltimore and other urban areas around the Nation
    that we will no longer tolerate crime at any level, that we
    will not tolerate pushers and dealers ruining the lives of our
    children, and we will not tolerate the violence that touches so
    many lives in our inner city.
        Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, and thank you Mr.
    Ranking Member.
        [The information follows:]
             [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Mr. Rogers. Thank you, Mr. Cummings, for that excellent
    testimony. This current career we provided $287 million for
    juvenile justice assistance, most of which is for grants,
    practically all of it are grants such as you speak of, and $552
    million for Byrne grants available also for local police forces
    and not to mention the huge investment of the COPS program and
    the local law enforcement block grants, all of which would be
    available for local police departments.
        So I would encourage you and the police departments there
    to seek those grants because they are for that very purpose.
        Mr. Cummings. We will.
        Mr. Rogers. Mr. Serrano.
        Mr. Serrano. I know the gentleman is interested in this
    issue because he has spoken to me concerning it. I think there
    are different approaches. One is the one you bring to us today
    and, as the chairperson says, make sure we make use of existing
    dollars in there because there is quite a bit of money in there
    that could be used locally.
        Mr. Cummings. Thank you.
                                  ----------

                                              Thursday, March 23, 2000.

                        TESTIMONY OF MEMBERS OF CONGRESS

                                    WITNESS

    HON. WAYNE GILCHREST, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF
        MARYLAND
        Mr. Rogers. Mr. Gilchrest.
        Mr. Gilchrest. Mr. Chairman. Good afternoon, everyone.
        Mr. Rogers. Welcome.
        Mr. Gilchrest. Thank you. Are you ready to go?
        Mr. Rogers. Yes, we will make your statement part of the
    record and if you would like to summarize it in 5 minutes or
    less we would be delighted to hear from you.
        Mr. Gilchrest. I do ask unanimous consent that my full
    statement be submitted for the record, and for the purposes of
    human sensitivity will roll through it rather quickly.
        Mr. Chairman, we have come before this committee before
    dealing with this most important but sometimes obscure agency
    in the Federal Government called National Oceanic Atmospheric
    Administration. They deal with the coastal areas and the oceans
    of the world. And what we are asking for today from our strong
    perspective is adequate funding to let these folks do their job
    in specific programs that would be very helpful not only to
    constituents in my district but certainly to people around the
    country.
        The first program I want to talk about is called Lower
    Chesapeake Bay Research. This is a program that helps with the
    Chesapeake Bay program, which many of you may be familiar with,
    establish an understanding for the dynamic marine ecosystem of
    the Chesapeake Bay. The reason that is critical to us not only
    from an environmental perspective but from an economic
    perspective is that basically the most important aspect of my
    district as far as the economy of my district is concerned is
    the Chesapeake Bay, from commercial fishing to recreational
    boating, to restaurants to tourism and so on, is the fishery of
    the Chesapeake Bay. And knowing that complex, dynamic ecosystem
    so that it can be managed appropriately to sustain the
    resources, we would like the amount of $2.5 million funded to
    the Chesapeake Bay research organization.
        The next area is oyster reef restoration, which we are
    asking for a small amount, Mr. Chairman, just $1 million. Now,
    the reason this is important is because about 90 percent of the
    oyster population in the Chesapeake Bay has been eliminated
    because of overharvesting, pollution. It has disappeared over
    the last 100 years. If we look back at the turn of the century,
    1900, we have lost over 90 percent of the oysters for various
    reasons as a result of human activity. What we finally decided
    the way to bring the oysters back is to instead of building an
    oyster bar which would not be as high as this table is from the
    bottom of the water, but bring it back to its natural state,
    which is making an oyster reef from the bottom of the bay to as
    high as this ceiling or the double height of this ceiling.
        If you build an oyster reef you do two things. You make
    oysters more resistant to diseases because they are in a more
    natural environment and how it has evolved. You can reproduce
    oysters because in the process of reproducing when they spit
    out those tiny little eggs the current takes them and replaces
    them. There is not a lot of oysters around, they just
    disappear.
        And the third thing is oysters used to filter out the
    entire Chesapeake Bay in about 3 days. They would purify the
    water because they are filter feeders. Because of the small
    number of oysters we have now they don't filter any pollution
    from the Bay whatsoever. So the small amount of funding for
    that program we feel is significantly important.
        The third thing is fisheries research. That is not only for
    the Chesapeake Bay but for around the country. Briefly, there
    is eight management councils on the coastal areas of the United
    States that provide management and expertise as to how to
    conduct a fishery, whether it is in New England, the Gulf
    States, Alaska or wherever it might be. The only way to manage
    our fishery resources so they don't become polluted and more
    than 50 percent of our stock is depleted is to get good science
    on what the stocks are now. To get the science you have to have
    the people with the expertise and you have to have the vessels.
    If we don't have the science we don't have the data that these
    management councils from around the country that depend on that
    information to help restore our fisheries and to sustain our
    fisheries, then we will continue to have depletion in the fish
    stock.
        Harmful algal blooms is probably something that you have
    heard in the form of Pfiesteria. Pfiesteria is a microorganism
    that is not new. It has been on the planet for about a million
    years. It has 24 different life cycles. It is very complex. It
    is a plant and an animal depending on its life cycle. When it
    comes out and has its reproduction process it emits a small
    chemical in the water. That small chemical attaches or attacks
    the neurological center of any species that happens to be in
    the water at the time, including humans. Some of the fish--and
    in North Carolina you probably heard over the years there has
    been a billion fish that have been harmed as a result of that.
    The reason this has actually killed--in Maryland we have had
    millions of fish die. What this harmful algal bloom research
    can help with around the country, but particularly in Maryland,
    the Department of Agriculture and NOAA have gotten together to
    try to understand the impact of human activity, agriculture in
    particular, to fisheries and waterways. So we feel that a
    number of things could happen as a result of this
    appropriation. Not only will there be a better understanding of
    these kinds of microorganisms, but what causes these
    microorganisms to go into that stage of their life cycle where
    they become toxic and how we can better manage the fisheries
    and better manage our agricultural resource.
        The last two things I will just say very quickly. The
    National Sea Grant College Program. The Sea Grant College
    Program has been an effective, positive ingredient for making
    policy in this Congress. Many Members who choose can have a Sea
    Grant fellow. I have had them ever since I have been here. Not
    only are they dynamos when it comes to working long hours but
    they are very smart people and they help with all of this.
        I know George Gekas, if and when he comes through here,
    will also support the Susquehanna River flood forecast and
    warning system appropriation because it does a lot of help for
    people downstream to avoid problems when there is too much rain
    in these floods.
        So I am prepared to answer all of your questions.
        [The information follows:]
             [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Mr. Rogers. Well, thank you for your testimony. This
    current year we provided $1.8 million for Chesapeake Bay
    studies and almost a half million for the Bay Oyster Recovery
    Partnership, half a million for Bay Multi-species Transitional
    Strategy, 59.2 million for Sea Grants, 185 million for
    construction, 283 million for basic core research, and 247
    million for external basic research. And I have to tell you
    that if this budget resolution that is now pending passes it
    looks like the overall appropriations level will be cut by 4
    percent from current levels. And we are not going to have any
    money for the things that----
        Mr. Gilchrest. Can I ask you, is that 596 or 586, what we
    are voting for today?
        Mr. Rogers. It is--I am not sure. But that is what we have
    been told from our leadership, that we are really going to be
    in a bad squeeze. It is not flat funding, it is less than flat,
    even funding for next year. So we are going to be in a real
    bind. I know how strongly the gentleman feels about these
    issues as do a lot of people. I am just saying that don't look
    for a lot.
        Mr. Gilchrest. Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman. We will stay
    with you on all of these issues and we will be getting funded
    as much as is possible. It is worth the numbers.
        Mr. Rogers. The budget resolution calls for a 596.5
    billion. Thank you.
        Mr. Serrano.
        Mr. Serrano. No. I just want to thank you for your
    testimony and really a lesson on oysters.
        Mr. Gilchrest. The committee is invited any time at your
    convenience to come to the Eastern Shore. Can I testify again,
    Mr. Chairman, with some oyster fritters? I will bring them
    tomorrow.
        Mr. Rogers. Ms. Roybal-Allard.
        The gentleman's testimony is an example of the
    extraordinarily broad jurisdiction of this subcommittee. We
    deal with everything from embassy security to oysters in the
    Bay.
        Mr. Gilchrest. We appreciate your responsibilities, Mr.
    Chairman.
        Mr. Rogers. Thank you very much. Ms. Pelosi.
                                  ----------

                                              Thursday, March 23, 2000.

    RADIO FREE ASIA, THE ASIA FOUNDATION, JUVENILE JUSTICE PROGRAMS IN SAN
       FRANCISCO, AND INS STAFFING AT SAN FRANCISCO INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT

                                    WITNESS

    HON. NANCY PELOSI, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF
        CALIFORNIA
        Ms. Pelosi. Mr. Chairman, as a native Marylander I can
    testify to the deliciousness of those oysters. A long time ago
    oyster roasts were a regular part of our lives. I don't know if
    they have enough to do that now but it was a long time ago.
        Mr. Rogers. I meant to point out to Mr. Gilchrest and the
    others we will make your written statements a part of the
    record and if you would like to summarize in 5 minutes or less,
    we give you points for less.
        Ms. Pelosi. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Mr. Serrano, ranking
    member, Congresswoman. As a former member of this subcommittee
    I fully appreciate the breadth of your jurisdiction and I
    admire your power. I am going to be very brief, submit my full
    statement for the record and heeding the chairman's admonition,
    just enumerate a few requests.
        Thank you very much for the opportunity to testify and
    thank you always for your previous support for some requests
    about Radio Free Asia, the Asia Foundation, and language
    supporting funding for improvements of the juvenile justice
    system in San Francisco. I appreciate your consideration of the
    following requests and look forward to working with you on the
    fiscal year 2001 appropriations bill.
        Mr. Chairman, seeing this backlog, I am going to be
    exceedingly brief. If you want me to elaborate I will. Radio
    Free Asia, the administration is requesting 23.77 million for
    Radio Free Asia for fiscal year 2001, an increase from an
    estimated $22 million for this year. I respectfully request
    that the committee provide at least the administration's
    request of $23.77 million and that increase is primarily
    related to cost of living and inflation. Radio Free Asia is the
    only international radio broadcast providing news and
    information 24 hours a day to China in seven languages and
    dialects. It goes also to North Korea and Vietnam--reporting
    important documents.
        The Asia Foundation. I support the administration's fiscal
    year 2001 request for 10 million for the Asia Foundation. While
    this is an improvement over recent years, even this level of
    funding will limit the foundation's ability to undertake
    important programs given the challenges and opportunities
    facing the Asia region. The Asia Foundation advances U.S.
    interests by strengthening democratic institutions as well as
    advancing economic opportunities and cooperative regional
    relations through the Asia Foundation's ability to deliver high
    quality programs on the ground through its network and offices
    in Asia. More on that and Radio Free Asia are in my full
    statement.
        The Bureau of Justice. The City of San Francisco has
    requested my assistance to obtain $4.5 million for improvement
    of San Francisco's juvenile justice system, including the
    detention upgrades. I have a fuller description of the request
    and the justification in my statement.
        Immigration--I am trying to be a model to those who follow,
    Mr. Chairman. Immigration and Naturalization Service. I am
    concerned about the problem of insufficient INS staffing in San
    Francisco International Airport and request funding for 50 new
    full-time positions. We are building what will be one of the
    largest international travel centers in the world. It is a
    Pacific gateway. Working with the INS they recommended an
    increase of 54 stations from the 28 existing stations and to
    adequately staff this they must increase to 218 full-time
    positions. They are at 116 now. So this request is to consider
    fuller funding there.
        And on behalf of all 52 members of the bipartisan
    California delegation, this is a bipartisan request--not that
    the others were not, but this is with authority to speak for
    all 52 California Representatives--I respectfully request that
    the subcommittee provide at least $650 million for the State
    Criminal Alien Assistance Program, which is authorized in
    fiscal year 2001 level. I commend Congresswoman Roybal-Allard
    on her leadership and wanted to bring this to the attention of
    the committee the unanimous support of our delegation, which is
    not easy to obtain, Mr. Chairman, even though this is a very
    top priority for our State. And I elaborate on it further in my
    statement.
        With that, I thank you again for your past support and for
    the opportunity to testify today. I would be pleased to answer
    any questions.
        [The information follows:]
             [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Mr. Rogers. I thank the gentlelady for her testimony and
    the abbreviation of it. The gentlelady has been one of the
    great captains of Radio Free Asia along with Congressman Porter
    and others. We saw fit this current year to provide 8.25
    million for the Asia Foundation. And we have tried to fund the
    other items that the gentlelady has mentioned, including SCAAP,
    which has been a real labor. But again I point out that the
    budget resolution that is on the floor, we are going to be
    severely strapped for funds again this year more than last year
    even.
        Mr. Serrano.
        Mr. Serrano. Well, just to thank you, Nancy, for your
    testimony and I know you have been--we all know you have been a
    champion in these issues. The chairman is correct, but even
    within that problem we will do what I know is right.
        Ms. Pelosi. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, if I may
    say about the Asia Foundation, a few years ago we were trying
    to get funding up to $20 million and then with everything being
    decreased and there has been a real tightening of the belt and
    revaluation of how to afford it because the funds simply were
    not there. So this $10 million is not something we are seeking
    from $2 million or $4 million. It is something that we have
    been cut back from seeking to 20 when we were at the 16, or 18
    million level several years ago. I hope that we can do our best
    on that as well as the others.
        Mr. Rogers. The gentlelady is a very forceful and valued
    member of the Appropriations Committee. We appreciate your
    testimony. Ms. Roybal-Allard.
        Ms. Roybal-Allard. You have summarized it and we appreciate
    your testimony on these issues.
        Mr. Rogers. Mr. Stupak.
                                  ----------

                                              Thursday, March 23, 2000.

      COPS PROGRAM, BYRNE FORMULA GRANTS PROGRAM, CONVICTED OFFENDER DNA
     INDEX SYSEM SUPPORT ACT, INTERNATIONAL JOINT COMMISION, ST. LAWRENCE
                  SEAWAY STUDY, AND THE NATIONAL GRANT PROGRAM

                                    WITNESS

    HON. BART STUPAK, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF
        MICHIGAN
        Mr. Stupak. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I will just quickly
    summarize my testimony and open up for any questions that you
    may have. First of all, Mr. Chairman, we have talked about the
    COPS program. Once again I hope we can honor the President's
    request of $1.3 billion for fiscal year 2001.
        The Byrne grants formula, you have always been great on
    that. Despite the President's request to reduce it to $460
    million we would like to see it at $552 million, which is
    really last year's level. I would ask this to go at the level
    that we had last year on the Byrne grants. You know Byrne
    grants as well as I do.
        There is sort of a new request we have in here, which is a
    DNA bill, Mr. Chairman. Representative Ben Gilman and Jim
    Ramstad and myself, we have a Convicted Offender DNA Index
    System Support Act. The reason that is important, sexual
    offenders, they take their DNA or you go to a crime scene
    offense, you take the DNA. But the States and local governments
    don't have any money to then test that DNA to classify it. For
    instance, nationwide we have over 700,000 backlog on DNA.
    California, 132,000 have been collected and 132,000 are
    unanalyzed, just sitting there. So if you have a perpetrator
    out there of violent crime with DNA, there is no way--if you
    get that match there is no way to take it and put it against
    your State's bank to see if they may have committed other
    crimes.
        Kentucky is one of the better states. They have collected
    3,102 samples and they have only a backlog of 327. Kentucky has
    been one of the better states. Michigan my state, zero. 5200
    have been collected and none of them analyzed. We are asking
    basically about $40 million. The President's proposal submits
    $5.3 million for FBI DNA--that is just the FBI DNA backlog. And
    then we would like to see 15 million for State and local DNA
    convicted offender backlogs.
        So that is why we are coming up with those funds, Mr.
    Chairman, to come up to help us out with the DNA data bases and
    solve more crime and hopefully get this backlog cleaned up.
        The International Joint Commission. As you know, Mr.
    Chairman, the Boundary Waters Act of 1909 created the
    International Joint Commission. We are asking for $6.172
    million for International Joint Commission. That is an increase
    of just 250,000 above the President's request. Actually it is
    $2.74 million above last year's appropriation.
        For many reasons, the St. Lawrence Seaway study has to be
    completed. They have just done work on the boundary waters
    between the U.S. and Canada, the Great Lakes in particular.
    They have to develop a plan to study lake levels on the Great
    Lakes. As you know, they are really, really low and that is why
    they have additional requests.
        The maritime academies. This committee has always been
    great in helping all of our state maritime academies. We would
    like to see $11 million for the state maritime academies. There
    is only one on the Great Lakes and that is the Great Lakes
    Maritime Academy at Traverse City, part of my district. That
    takes care of all of the shipping concerns on the Great Lakes,
    provide our sailors and merchant mariners for the Great Lakes.
        Mr. Gilchrest mentioned the National Sea Grant. I
    wholeheartedly agree with him on that. We use our program a bit
    differently, to help fight the invasion of foreign species in
    the water. When the salties or the ocean going ships come up
    the St. Lawrence Seaway they discharge their ballast water and
    they give us things like Eurasian ruffe, the zebra mussels, sea
    lamprey, which really wiped out our fish population and played
    havoc with our environment of the Great Lakes. That is why we
    have the Great Lakes Environmental Research Lab.
        It is all in here, Mr. Chairman. I will stop right there.
    If you have any questions on the DNA, the formula for the Byrne
    grants, the COPS program, I would be happy to answer any
    questions.
        [The information follows:]
             [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Mr. Rogers. I thank the gentleman for his testimony. We did
    provide in the current year $9.3 million for the Great Lakes
    Fishery Commission--I'm sorry. I was mistaken. The request from
    the administration was for $9.3 million for the commission. We
    did provide 595 million for the COPS program and 552 for Byrne
    grants not to mention the State and local grants and other
    juvenile justice grants and the like.
        So we have been, I think, generous in those respects. We
    will certainly take your testimony under consideration. We
    appreciate you being here.
        Mr. Stupak. I can't disagree with the committee. They have
    always done a good job on the science projects and helped COPS
    and all of the other programs I have argued for. The DNA may be
    one that may be of some significance that we haven't done in
    the past that needs some attention. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        Mr. Rogers. Mr. Serrano.
        Mr. Serrano. Just to once again congratulate you on your
    support of COPS program and the work that you do. We will in
    that area definitely continue to push and hope that we continue
    to bring that program where it should be. It is a difficult
    year and we have to balance that with everything else.
        Mr. Rogers. Ms. Roybal-Allard? Thank you. Mr. Weygand.
    George Gekas, you are recognized. Chairman of the Subcommittee
    on Commercial and Administrative Law of the Judiciary, you are
    welcome here.
                                  ----------

                                              Thursday, March 23, 2000.

                        TESTIMONY OF MEMBERS OF CONGRESS

                                    WITNESS

    HON. GEORGE GEKAS, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF
        PENNSYLVANIA
        Mr. Gekas. Yes, Mr. Chairman, and members. I wear two hats,
    one thrust upon me by Mr. Gilchrest inadvertently so I can
    second his testimony not as to the oysters but the cloisters in
    Pennsylvania which are safeguarded somewhat by--a great deal by
    the flood watch programs of the Susquehanna River Basin
    Commission. Part of our request to your committee is the full
    funding of the various gauges, gauging equipment and
    implementation thereof. That is the one-half. So I will be
    bringing you testimony on that a little bit later.
        Here today I want to concentrate for a few minutes on the
    Legal Services Corporation and to congratulate you, Mr.
    Chairman, and the others for their attention to that very
    serious portion of our budgetary requirements.
        Last year during the debate I supported the amendment that
    would have--and did result in lifting the original
    recommendation of the committee to its current levels. I did so
    and stated very emphatically that I did so with a lump in my
    throat because I had in front of me rampant misuses and abuses
    of the way that the reporting system was being handled by the
    grantees of our legal services system and overcount that was at
    least prima facie to me warning enough that more had to be done
    to make sure that we were funding it properly and according to
    its needs. But I said on the floor then and it bears part of
    premise of what I wish to discuss with you that I was willing
    to support the additional moneys despite the evidence that I
    had giving the benefit of the doubt to the legal services
    community, but that I would then conduct hearings as chairman
    of the relevant committee to determine the extent of this
    overcount of cases that was running through the system.
        I report to you, and as I have already reported to you,
    that that hearing revealed a great number of abuses in that
    special regard. And so when the time comes again for you to
    appear on the floor I will want to give the benefit of the
    doubt this time to the appropriators in the amount that you
    wish to pen to the Legal Services Corporation, keeping in mind
    that we still have not reached the end of the line in our
    examination of the overcount and other abuses by the grantees.
        For instance, we still have evidence in front of us even
    after all that has been said and done--by the way, I have to
    commend the legal services staff and administration for making
    human efforts to correct those situations. That goes without
    saying, but I am saying it anyway to their credit. But still we
    get bits and pieces of evidence that the grantees are flaunting
    the requests for information even from their own departments,
    from their own superiors in many cases. We still then do not
    have a full picture of how they count cases and how they
    determine the needs that they present to our committee and to
    our Congress.
        So I say that I will be taking the floor at that time to
    say sternly that we ought to give the benefit of the doubt this
    round until we complete all of these to the appropriators and
    not as we did before to the Legal Services Corporation which I
    was willing to do and did.
        Furthermore, there is one aspect of this that I don't fully
    understand but for the benefit of the discussion the GAO
    delivered a report managing for results, just yesterday I
    suppose, in which it stays using GPRA to help congressional
    decision-making and oversight. We have not been able to
    determine whether this segment of what we tried to accomplish
    back in 1997 applies to the Legal Services Corporation. They
    themselves believe that it does not. I think the GAO thinks yes
    and the Congressional Budget Office thinks no. But I hope that
    the committee will at least in its report and its debate on
    this issue mandate to the Legal Services Corporation that they
    use the guidelines even if the law is unclear as to whether
    they apply. This is of course the--it is the Government
    Performance and Results Act, GPRA, but it is the Results Act
    let's call it. And this is supposed to give programmatic ways
    in which each agency can check on how its dollars are working
    pursuant to its program, et cetera.
        Again, although we are not sure at this stage whether it
    applies to Legal Services, at least there are guidelines and
    the way to do business ought to be fastened onto Legal Services
    in their work in trying to bring out a real picture of their
    needs to our Congress.
        With that, I will yield to any questions that the members
    may have.
        [The information follows:]
             [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Mr. Rogers. Chairman Gekas, thank you for your testimony.
    As chairman of the subcommittee that authorizes Legal Services,
    it is one of the chief things that we have in common with you
    because we are called upon to fund the Legal Services that you
    authorize, and several years now we have had to do the
    authorizing tier as well. With your strong input all of the way
    through that, you have been one of the champions over the years
    of reforming Legal Services and bringing it under control and
    making it work the way it should be working. You are one of the
    responsible voices here. There are some irresponsible voices in
    respect to Legal Services on both sides of the question.
        Mr. Gekas. I might add, Mr. Chairman, that you made it
    clear to me from the very first moment that the Republicans
    became the majority back in prehistoric days and I made clear
    to you that we were both interested in maintaining a program
    for legal assistance to the poor, and that we were going to do
    everything in our power to strengthen it, to make sure that
    every dollar went for legal assistance to the poor for
    representations in the gamut of issues that arose. And
    notwithstanding our joint efforts to try to revamp it, to try
    to reauthorize it in different ways, this theme of it was to
    help maintain a system of legal assistance to the poor. We do
    no less here, but we still must do our job in making sure that
    the dollars match the needs.
        Mr. Rogers. We are in agreement and have been all of the
    way through. I really appreciate your strong support for a
    proper Legal Services Corporation and your fight to make that
    happen. And we appreciate further your testimony today that you
    would be willing to support our position on the floor when it
    comes in regard to the funding level. We don't know what that
    is going to be yet because it looks like we are going to be
    squeezed even worse than last year, and the current year for
    funding levels overall in our full committee and subcommittee
    and it is going to be a harder pinch this year than last. We
    will look forward to working with you this year as we go
    through the process.
        Thank you so much for your expertise.
        Mr. Serrano, or Ms. Roybal-Allard?
        Mr. Serrano. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I just wanted to
    thank the gentleman for his comments. As a cosponsor of the
    Serrano-Ramstad amendment on the floor, I do recall your words
    and I take them seriously. I hope that we can work out our
    differences before we get to the floor not only in dollars and
    what needs to be done because, as you know, this is an
    important program that is very popular. President Nixon created
    it back in those days. It was one of the greatest things that
    he has done so far.
        As far as your comment about how long it seems the
    Republicans have been in power, it just seems that way. It
    hasn't been that long.
        Mr. Gekas. We are going to make it a little longer.
        Mr. Rogers. Thank you.
        Mr. Serrano. Thank you very much.
                                  ----------

                                              Thursday, March 23, 2000.

       CENTER FOR ENVIRONMENTAL STUDIES AT THE UNIVERSITY OF RHODE ISLAND

                                    WITNESS

    HON. ROBERT WEYGAND, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF
        RHODE ISLAND
        Mr. Rogers. Now, Mr. Weygand, we thank you for yielding
    your time. You are recognized. We will make all of your written
    statement part of the record and we invite you to summarize
    your written statement in 5 minutes or less and we do give
    points for less.
        Mr. Weygand. Your suggestion is well noted. I want to thank
    you for allowing me to speak here this morning. I will submit
    my full statement for the record as well as the documentation
    that supports this statement.
        Mr. Chairman, throughout this country whether it is
    California, West Coast, the East Coast, or the southern part of
    our country we have seen the stresses and strains on economic
    development as populations move from many of our urban areas to
    more coastal and waterfront areas. We particularly see that in
    the Northeast and all along the Eastern Seaboard where
    transportation systems have been strained, economic development
    has been impeded, housing and other costs have sky-rocketed and
    a host of economic problems besiege the coastal areas of our
    States, New York, Rhode Island, Florida, and the entire coastal
    areas.
        The Center for Environmental Studies at the University of
    Rhode Island is an attempt to bring all of the various state-
    of-the-art techniques, improvements for economic development as
    well as transportation planning, land and water conservation as
    well as all of the applicable communities agenda. The basis for
    all of this, though, is the impact of economic development. We
    have seen throughout the years that as people begin to sprawl
    out of communities they also cost taxpayers, city, state, and
    even Federal Government money. Utilities have also seen the
    same thing. The Center for Environmental Studies would bring
    together a host of different state-of-the-art curriculums but
    also parts of the Livable Communities (community) in a way that
    has not been seen before.
        There are many universities that have graduate studies of
    planning, oceanography, marine studies, planning and
    development and a host of others. None of them combines it in a
    way the University of Rhode Island is proposing under this
    particular center. The purpose for this is really to combine
    and look at proclems and solutions and give guidance to States,
    communities and the Federal Government in an effort to not only
    enhance land development, improve it in an economic sense, but
    also provide the most effective and efficient means of
    providing for improvements in land use. By doing so we save the
    taxpayers in those communities, the States and the Federal
    Government money.
        This investment is something that needs to be done now. As
    we talk about urban sprawl we talk about the problems of going
    into the rural and suburban areas. We have seen time and time
    again the negative impact on the tax base, on the expenditure
    of additional taxes on systems. You in Appropriation Committee
    are asked time and time again to provide more money for
    community assistance.
        This center would be a total of $10 million. Some of it has
    already been appropriated through the University of Rhode
    Island, through the State of Rhode Island as well as through
    last year's appropriation. The total appropriation that is left
    is about 7.5 million. We are asking for half of that to be
    funded through CJS. We think it is properly before you in terms
    of either an EPA grant or a similar type of grant. We would
    like to work with the staff to determine the right placement
    for it.
        But it wouldn't be just for the State of Rhode Island. It
    would be used actually throughout the entire country because
    its techniques and transportation planning and economic
    development and environmental protection could be utilized by
    all states and localities.
        Mr. Chairman, I thank for your indulgence and the
    opportunity to address you and, as I said, I will submit my
    full statement for the record as well as documentation for the
    support of this request.
        [The information follows:]
             [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Mr. Rogers. That will be fine. We thank you for your
    testimony and your diligence on this issue and we will give it
    all due consideration. You are a member of the Budget Committee
    and you know----
        Mr. Weygand. I was waiting for that, Mr. Chairman.
        Mr. Rogers [continuing]. You know if this budget passes
    that is on the floor now we are going to be so severely
    restricted we won't be able to fund what we fund now much less
    anything new.
        Mr. Weygand. I look for your support for the Democratic
    alternative, which is to increase the amount of funding in
    these areas. Certainly we would be able to fund this and many
    others that we talked about from oysters to planning.
        Mr. Serrano. And all without any cost to the American
    taxpayer.
        Mr. Rogers. Any questions? Thank you very much.
        Mr. Weygand. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
                                  ----------

                                              Thursday, March 23, 2000.

     JUVENILE ACCOUNTABILITY INCENTIVE GRANT PROGRAMS, THE COPS TECHNOLOGY
           PROGRAM, AND THE PACIFIC COASTAL SECTION RESTORATION FUND

                                    WITNESS

    HON. DARLENE HOOLEY, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF
        OREGON
        Mr. Rogers. Ms. Hooley.
        Ms. Hooley. You got the last name right.
        Mr. Rogers. Your statement will be made a part of the
    record and we invite you to summarize it for us.
        Ms. Hooley. I can do it very quickly. Mr. Chairman, Ranking
    Member Serrano, thank you for the opportunity to be in front of
    your committee along with a whole tent of other people.
        I have really three requests, one request--two requests:
    Fully fund the Office of Justice programs and particularly the
    Juvenile Accountability Incentive Grant and the COPS program.
    When I am around my district in talking to law enforcement
    officials and police chiefs, they say this program has worked
    better than any program they have ever had. They think it is
    the best thing the Federal Government has ever done. It has
    helped reduce the crime rate in our States. Juvenile crime,
    however, is still a problem, particularly methamphetamines. And
    so it is why I would like to see the juvenile program funded
    fully, if possible.
        There is a huge need for Federal assistance. I would just
    talk about one county, Clackamas County. We have 12 beds for
    the 650 young people held in detention last year. Police
    officers have to drive an hour to get to this detention
    facility. So there is a lot of wasted hours both in their time
    as well as the juvenile. When there are only 12 beds some of
    them are turned away and put back in the community when they
    really need to be held.
        The county is looking for $3 million for a new juvenile
    detention facility. They have secured about $1.7 million along
    with a site for the facility and they need your help. We also
    have a tremendous need to update enforcement equipment and
    technology. Thank you very much for your help last year. There
    was a million dollars earmarked in the budget for this. It made
    a difference. This is about a $6 million project. This got us
    off to a great start. We are looking for another $2 million and
    the county is putting in their share of almost $3 million.
        One of the reasons it is--I will just quickly mention this.
    In Clackamas County we have 50 percent of the land is owned by
    the Federal Government. We are now trying to cover those more
    rural areas and we have been asked to help. There is no way
    that you can communicate with the ambulance service and police
    service and fire service. So we are trying to make sure that we
    have a system that really deals with public safety and works
    for everyone. And again thank you for your help on that.
        The last issue I am going to talk about is bipartisan and
    bi-state and that is in the Northwest we have 12 salmon species
    that are listed as endangered species. We have had a tremendous
    decline in our wild salmon. This is part of Oregon's heritage
    and economy. We are trying to figure out how to bring back the
    salmon runs. We have already treaties for salmon harvesting
    with tribal governments. What I am worried about is if we don't
    bring back the salmon the Federal Government is going to be
    liable for some fairly significant costs to the tribal groups.
        So what I am asking for, and again this is a delegation to
    fund the Pacific Coastal Salmon Restoration Fund at the
    administration's of $160 million. $90 million would be divided
    equally between Alaska, Washington, Oregon, and California, $10
    million for the Pacific and Columbia River tribes and $60
    million for the implementation of the Pacific Salmon Treaty
    between the United States and Canada. There is already
    authority within the Marine Fisheries Services so we just need
    the money.
        Thank you very much and if you have any questions, I would
    be happy to answer them.
        [The information follows:]
             [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Mr. Rogers. Thank for your testimony.
        Ms. Hooley. Did I make it under 5 minutes?
        Mr. Rogers. Yes. You have some points coming. Any
    questions? Thank you very much for your testimony. Mr.
    Strickland.
                                  ----------

                                              Thursday, March 23, 2000.

                        TESTIMONY OF MEMBERS OF CONGRESS

                                    WITNESS

    HON. TED STRICKLAND, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF
        OHIO
        Mr. Strickland. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I promise you
    that I will be under 5 minutes. I have timed it and I would
    like my entire testimony to be included in the record if
    possible.
        Mr. Rogers. It shall be.
        Mr. Strickland. I want to thank you for allowing me to be
    here to talk about a critical issue in regard to our Federal
    Bureau of Prisons. I would like to begin by expressing my
    respect for the Bureau. I think it is one of the departments of
    our Federal Government that does a good job.
        I worked in a maximum state run facility for 8 years and I
    know how difficult it is to deal with felons and dangerous
    felons at that. I am a founder and cochair of the Congressional
    Officers Caucus here in the Congress. I come today for two
    reasons.
        First, I want to echo Director Hawk Sawyer's request that
    language be added to the Department of Justice general
    provisions to provide that the Bureau have greater discretion
    in the placing of D.C. sentenced felons so that the decision
    regarding whether D.C. felons are placed in private facilities
    are made in accordance with the Bureau's needs just as is the
    case with other Federal inmates.
        And the second reason I am here is to implore you that you
    require the Bureau provide to you and to the Congress an annual
    report on the performance of for profit prisons with which the
    Bureau contracts. For profit prisons are responsible for some
    of the most heinous public safety catastrophes in recent
    corrections history. If the Federal Bureau of Prisons must
    contract out its responsibilities of incarceration to for
    profit prisons because the Bureau needs more bed space, then
    the Bureau's liability for public safety I think demands that
    the Bureau at least exercise careful oversight of these
    entrepreneurial enterprises to make sure that they are
    conforming to the same laws, same rules, regulations, and
    standards as the Bureau itself.
        To be fair, this for profit industry has come a long way
    since it began in the mid-'80s when the Correctional
    Corporation of America, which is the Nation's largest private
    prison company, accepted its first inmates before it actually
    had a facility open. Those inmates were housed in rented motel
    rooms until a number of them pushed the air conditioning units
    out of the wall and they escaped. Since then, however, for
    profit prisons have created a multi-billion dollar industry and
    are as likely to be traded on Wall Streets as be listed as
    defendants in litigation.
        In fact, in my home State of Ohio we have already seen how
    the profit motive in private prisons can lead to disaster. In
    July of 1998 at a private facility in Youngstown, Ohio, that is
    run by CCA, 6 prisoners, 5 of them murderers, cut a hole in the
    fence during a recreation break and walked out of the prison in
    broad daylight.
        This incident in Youngstown is not an isolated event.
    Headlines appear almost daily across the country detailing the
    latest debacle of for profit prison companies. Although there
    have been too many to list to you today I will just highlight a
    couple.
        In New Mexico for profit prisons run by Wackenhut, the
    second largest for profit prison company in the country, have
    experienced a series of murders, about one a month. The victims
    have included at least one correctional officer. In Texas a
    staff of CCA was murdered in December. In 1999, during
    Thanksgiving week, CCA had three different escapees on the run,
    including two murderers. One of the escapees was convicted
    murderer Kyle Bell, who was convinced in North Carolina of
    killing an 11-year-old girl that he also molested. Bell escaped
    in New Mexico while being transported. The CCA guards had
    fallen asleep.
        And just last week in Louisiana the story written in the
    New York Times, a state judge removed six teenage boys from a
    juvenile prison run by Wackenhut after finding they had been
    brutalized by guards, kept in solitary confinement for months,
    deprived of food, underwear, shoes, blankets, education and
    medical care. One of the boys freed by the judge was a 17-year-
    old who had been found guilty of robbery. He had been forced to
    lie on the floor on his stomach with the knee of a Wackenhut
    guard in his back which caused excruciating pain since the boy
    had recently had an operation for a gunshot wound to his
    abdomen and was wearing a colostomy bag.
        I understand the Bureau needs more space. They tell me they
    cannot maintain the prisoners we are sending them with the
    space they have. But I would sincerely ask that the Bureau be
    held accountable for providing to the Congress a report
    regarding how these private facilities are operated.
        Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for this time.
        [The information follows:]
        Offset Folios 138 to 141 Insert here

        Mr. Rogers. Thank you for your testimony.
        Any questions? Thank you very much.
        Chairman Gilman. Mr. Gilman.
                                  ----------

                                              Thursday, March 23, 2000.

                        TESTIMONY OF MEMBERS OF CONGRESS

                                    WITNESS

    HON. BENJAMIN A. GILMAN, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF
        NEW YORK
        Mr. Gilman. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        Mr. Rogers. We will make your statement a part of the
    record and if you can summarize it very briefly we would
    appreciate it.
        Mr. Gilman. I will try to be brief. Mr. Chairman, I have
    two matters before you: One on the United States Commission for
    the Preservation of America's Heritage Abroad and for their
    funding and also for funding the DNA index system. With regard
    to the United States Commission for the Preservation of
    Heritage abroad, the commission presently requests a budget of
    $550,000 to continue to meet its legislative mandate.
        The list of the commission's achievements are extensive.
    They are presently involved in vital preservation restoration
    projects throughout the Eastern and Central European area and
    currently mediating major disputes between a number of
    religious factions about the protection of historic cemeteries,
    particularly in the--there is a very ancient cemetery in the
    Czech Republic. An insurance company is trying to build over
    this cemetery and they have had extensive hearings and
    visitations and meetings with the government to try to resolve
    it. But that is typical of what they have been engaged in.
        As you know, the commission received $490,000 appropriation
    from the Congress for fiscal year 2000 that was due in great
    measure to your subcommittee's strong support for the
    commission, for which we are grateful. Dedicating a $500,000
    appropriation, fiscal year 2001 would provide them with the
    kind of adequate resources they need to continue their efforts
    throughout the world. I deeply believe in the commission's work
    and they really maintain the integrity of these historic places
    throughout the world.
        So I would welcome, Mr. Chairman, whatever you think you
    can do in this year's appropriation.
        Mr. Chairman, let me take an opportunity to discuss the
    funding for a measure, H.R. 3375, which I am involved in, the
    Convicted Offender DNA Indexing Support Act. That is a
    cooperative solution that I propose along with Congressmen
    Ramstad and Stupak to eliminate our DNA background. I
    understand that Mr. Stupak did testify previously.
        The DNA index system is an excellent system for resolving
    crimes that have been unresolved based on this index system.
    The problem has been that we have a dramatic increase in the
    backlog of DNA work. And in order to offset that I worked with
    the FBI and with our state police department to try to come up
    with a better solution.
        The solution that I have suggested will provide expansion
    efforts for the State to take care of this backlog of some
    700,000 unanalyzed convicted offender DNA samples. I began work
    last year on this and this will assist our local, State, and
    Federal law enforcement personnel by ensuring that crucial
    resources will be provided to the data banks and to crime labs.
        The FBI's budget includes a request for $5.3 million to
    implement the Federal convicted offender database. The
    Department of Justice is proposing 15 million under the COPS
    program to reduce the backlog that needs to be processed in
    order to get into the CODIS system, where all of these DNA
    samples are coded. I support these requests and hope the
    subcommittee will offer their assistance in providing our DNA
    labs with the necessary support.
        Although the administration's request fails to provide any
    funding specifically for helping our State and local agencies
    to eliminate this backlog, my measure authorizes $25 million to
    be appropriated for assistance in the States and FBI and we
    would welcome your assistance.
        This is a very important tool for our criminal agencies.
    They have solved a lot of cases. There are now thousands and
    thousands of cases backlogged because they don't have the
    resources or the facilities. Your work will help them
    accomplish that. I just came from a hearing of the Crime
    Subcommittee and they are working on several measures to try to
    resolve this backlog.
        Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        [The information follows:]
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        Mr. Rogers. Thank you, Chairman Gilman. Your testimony is
    appreciated. I know you are on a tight schedule.
        Any questions? Thank you very much.
        Mr. Gilman. Thank you very much. I appreciate the
    opportunity.
        Mr. Rogers. Thank you. Ms. Ros-Lehtinen.
                                  ----------

                                              Thursday, March 23, 2000.

     CUBA TRANSITION PROJECT, THE DANTE FASCELL NORTH-SOUTH CENTER AND THE
                     MIAMI BEACH PROJECT TECHNOLOTY CENTER

                                    WITNESS

    HON. ILEANA ROS-LEHTINEN, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE
        OF FLORIDA
        Ms. Ros-Lehtinen. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Mr. Serrano, and
    Congresswoman RoybalAllard. Thank you for the opportunity to
    allow me to testify on behalf of three important projects in my
    south Florida district. Two of them are housed at the
    University of Miami: The Cuba Transition Project for Cuban and
    Cuban American Studies and the Dante Fascell North-South
    Center, The third project is the Miami Beach Police Technology
    Project.
        On the Cuban Transition Project, Mr. Chairman and members,
    political change in Cuba from a tyrannical oppression is
    inevitable and the United States should be prepared to deal
    with these changes in an effective way to assist Cuba in
    becoming a free democratic society. Eastern Europe served as an
    example to us as to how difficult the transition phase may be.
    To paraphrase, if we don't learn the lessons of history we are
    condemned to repeat the mistakes.
        This Cuba Transition Project is designed to provide policy
    makers, analysts and other professionals with accurate
    information, with incisive analysis and practical policy
    recommendations. It focuses on three major phases: The
    pretransition and transition itself and the post transition.
    The results of this project will help the U.S. to play an
    important role in Cuba's smooth transition and movement from a
    centrally planned economy and a communist party state to what
    we hope will soon be a free market democracy.
        Because of its programs, its location, materials and
    language capability and historical associations with Cuba, the
    University of Miami is believe be perfectly poised to have a
    positive impact in the transformation of a democratic Cuba. Its
    unique status and contribution is evident in many of the
    programs that the University of Miami has already established.
    Its Cuba On Line database, for example, is a database of
    historical and contemporary information on the island and also
    its position as Secretariat of the prestigious Association for
    the Study of the Cuban Economy. It brings together the most
    highly qualified economists worldwide for a study of the
    island.
        We should not have Cuba's transition process mimic Eastern
    Europe's and we should learn from our mistakes. These senior
    scholars, researchers, and analysts at the University of Miami
    are the right people to guide us in that direction. We ask that
    you appropriate 10 million for this vital Cuba Transition
    Project.
        The second project is the Dante Fascell North-South Center
    also housed at the University of Miami. It seeks to promote
    better relations with United States, Canada, and nations of the
    Latin American and Caribbean area. The Fascell North-South
    Center is rooted in the democratic values of a market driven
    economy and social justice. Through research, public outreach,
    education, and training and cooperative study, this information
    on the Americas will be published and available for the United
    States to have a better opportunity at improving our economy
    and expanding jobs and learning the risks associated with
    partnering countries in the Western Hemisphere to prevent
    economic catastrophes. The scholars and professionals at the
    Dante Fascell North-South Center at the university have
    successfully been able to study the market and publish first
    quality information and to avoid market failures. We have been
    very helpful to our neighbors in urging them to take these
    correct steps. We would like the subcommittee to grant $1.75
    million for this unique center.
        And the third project, Mr. Chairman and members, is the
    Miami Beach Police Department Technology Program. We ask $1
    million for this new technology initiative. The funds will be
    utilized to enhance communication and response among law
    enforcement officers with respect to disasters and emergencies.
    Funds will also be used to acquire the necessary infrastructure
    to provide real time online public access to crime reports,
    statistics about crime and crime maps. With an appropriation of
    $1 million, the Miami Beach Police Department will develop
    closer partnerships with the community it serves to better
    equip their officers in the community and to make Miami Beach
    and, indeed, south Florida a safer place for all of us to live.
        I thank the subcommittee for the time to testify.
        [The information follows:]
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        Mr. Rogers. The gentlelady has given us a workload and if
    this budget resolution, if it passes on the floor and allows us
    any leeway, we will be anxious to help what we can. Any
    questions?
        Ms. Ros-Lehtinen. I should try to take an earlier flight
    then. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
                                  ----------

                                              Thursday, March 23, 2000.

          JOINT COMMUNICATIONS TECHNOLOGY PROJECT AND A NEIGHBORHOOD
                             REVITALIZATION PROGRAM

                                    WITNESS

    HON. KAREN THURMAN, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF
        FLORIDA
        Mr. Rogers. Mrs. Thurman, you are recognized. Your written
    statement will be made a part of the record and you may
    summarize.
        Mrs. Thurman. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I know you have been
    sitting through a lot of testimony today and every time I come
    to testify before this subcommittee. We have a very needy
    country out there, and I understand and appreciate that. And
    I--I can't imagine the tasks that are before you in trying to
    make decisions. But, I would be remiss if I did not come with
    projects for the district that I represent in the communities
    that I have the opportunity to serve.
        There are a couple of projects here that are very important
    to the community. I have to say I think the one thing that we
    bring strength in is a lot of our communities are starting to
    work together, our cities and counties, in trying to bring
    joint projects that they are both investing in to try to make
    their communities safe. One of the areas that we have talked
    about in here before, and in fact our sheriff was up here a
    couple of years ago, is the City of Gainesville's
    Communications Technology Project. We are seeking funding to
    put a Joint Communications Technology Project together to
    enhance public safety. Again this is the City and Alachua
    County. They have initiated a joint communication system for
    the future. The interesting part about this is also it takes
    care of our regional rural area. It also covers a very large
    portion of north Florida.
        We also have a project that is dealing with Partners for a
    Productive Community, and we are seeking Federal funding to
    expand our neighborhood revitalization program. It has actually
    worked already within the county, but they are trying to expand
    it out into some of the more rural areas. Again it is a joint
    project to take what is already successful and move it out so
    it is successful for the entire community.
        There is an area though that we have come up with a
    shortfall of about $770,000, which is a business incubator, the
    Technology Center, that actually broke ground a couple months
    ago. When it was launched about 3 years ago the construction
    costs were going to be about $60 per square foot. They have now
    gone to $87 per square foot. We are about $770,000 short. It
    would be a shame for us to lose what has already been invested,
    about $1.4 million, because of the shortfall.
        We have some other projects here but I look like the last
    one here, at least when I came up. So if I get out of here
    maybe you can take a break. I hope you would consider mine and
    thank you. I will answer any questions.
        [The information follows:]
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        Mr. Rogers. Thank you very much. You just made a lot of
    points. Any questions?
        Mr. Serrano. Thank you.
        Mr. Rogers. Thank you very much.
        Mr. McGovern and Mr. Frank.
                                  ----------

                                              Thursday, March 23, 2000.

                            NATIONAL TEXTILE CENTER

                                   WITNESSES

    HON. JIM McGOVERN, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF
        MASSACHUSETTS
    HON. BARNEY FRANK, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF
        MASSACHUSETTS
        Mr. McGovern. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for allowing us to
    appear before you today. We are here to ask the subcommittee to
    appropriate 15 million for the National Textile Centers in the
    fiscal year 2001 Commerce, Justice, and State appropriations
    bill. I represent Dartmouth, Massachusetts, which is located,
    which also borders Congressman Frank's district, which is in
    New Bedford. This program has already generated a great deal of
    help for the textile industry, which is still alive and well in
    our region of the country. The best way for textile companies
    to remain in business in the face of international competition
    is by developing innovative processes, identifying niche
    markets, and in providing other innovative ways to help them
    compete. We have been told that already 250 million in economic
    activity could be traced to the $54 million in Federal
    investment in the National Textile Center since fiscal year
    1992.
        This is an important program. I think all of the
    universities that benefit from this will attest to the fact
    that it has been of great value and, even more importantly for
    us, it has been an incredible help to the industry in our area
    in keeping people employed.
        I will submit my total testimony for the record.
        [The information follows:]
             [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Mr. Rogers. Thank you.
        Mr. Frank. This is genuinely a national program. The center
    itself is in Delaware, and the University of Alabama, Georgia,
    Massachusetts, and mostly in the South, both Carolinas
    participate. I think the justification is that it is American
    trade policy which has caused obviously some of the problems
    here. We pay lip service to the principle that what we should
    do is go forward with open trade and then compensate those who
    have been hurt and try to deal with it.
        This is a genuine effort to do this. This is an effort
    developed within the United States, a technology based textile
    industry, so that whereas we can't compete simply in the area
    of wages we would have some sector of industry, a high tech
    sector here. And understand that much of the textile industry
    goes overseas because of wage deficits, but we can develop some
    technology based activity here and that has happened. It has
    saved some jobs and it is a relatively small investment. And a
    national center willing to distribute technology is the model
    for, people tell us, what we are supposed to do with regard to
    facilitating globalization while trying to minimize the impact
    on working America. It has been very important for us.
        University of Massachusetts at Dartmouth is a very good
    example of a university that works very well with the private
    sector in the surrounding communities. So we think this is a
    project that at least as far as we know complies with what
    people tell them they are supposed to do.
        [The information follows:]
             [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Mr. Rogers. We thank both of you for your testimony. We
    provided $9 million this current year----
        Mr. Frank. They are looking for an increase.
        Mr. Rogers. I don't know what the budget request was. I
    think it is zero last year. I think it is again zero. We have
    $9 million. It is an interesting topic. I formally had lots of
    textile workers in my district. I have hardly any now after
    NAFTA. They went south. Fruit of the Loom has flown the coop
    and many others. I wish you well on trying to develop a high
    tech textile end. I am a little bit pessimistic about that. I
    don't know how we can do that but----
        Mr. Frank. First of all, I know that the loss of Fruit of
    the Loom was painful, of course. Now Fruit of the Loom is going
    down the tubes. Even if you had it you wouldn't have. There are
    mixed emotions to the reaction of the departure of Fruit of the
    Loom.
        Mr. Rogers. If they had stayed here we would have taken
    care of them.
        Mr. Frank. He thinks he can take care of himself. I
    appreciate that. It does stress that we do think there is some
    national responsibility to try to help people who are the
    victims of trade policy. They have had some success. It is
    obviously a much smaller industry but the flocking process
    appears to be one where it works well. We have Malden Mills up
    in Massachusetts where they had the fire. But at least so far
    it has at least helped it to keep, albeit a much smaller one,
    to keep going.
        In any case, we have a university that does work on an
    ongoing basis with firms in both the cities on either side.
        Mr. McGovern. In the testimony I submitted to the committee
    it kind of lists the number of successes that the money you
    have already invested achieved for the industry, which have
    helped strengthen the industry and keep it alive.
        Mr. Frank. I voted against that because I wanted to protect
    the owners.
        Mr. McGovern. I would have voted against that if I was
    here.
        Mr. Rogers. So did I. Thank you both for your testimony. We
    are in recess for the moment.
        [Recess.]
                                  ----------

                                              Thursday, March 23, 2000.

          NEWARK ARENA, OPERATION NITRO, AND THE CENTER FOR BIODEFENSE

                                    WITNESS

    HON. DONALD PAYNE, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF NEW
        JERSEY
        Mr. Rogers. Mr. Payne, you are recognized. We will make
    your written statement a part of the record and if you would,
    summarize it for us.
        Mr. Payne. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It is a pleasure for me
    to be here to come before the subcommittee to give me an
    opportunity to testify here today about requests of critical
    importance for my congressional district, the 10th
    Congressional District of New Jersey, right across the river
    from Congressman Serrano. It includes my hometown.
        Mr. Serrano. It is well noted.
        Mr. Payne. Thank you. I very much appreciate all of the
    help in the past you have given in the past and I look forward
    to your continued support.
        Let me just quickly touch on three specific requests. First
    is the Newark Arena. This is a very new economic development
    initiative which is evolving from a concept to concrete plans.
    There is a unique opportunity for a major downtown facility
    linked to key transit hubs. The synergy of a major tenant that
    is committed to invest for the community for its development
    and opportunities for upgrading the center city retail and
    economic environment makes this a very attractive proposal. It
    is anticipated that the arena would be open for business in the
    year 2002. For site acquisition and construction, a total of 20
    million is requested through the Economic Development
    Administration of the Department of Commerce.
        Secondly, the next request is for a Criminal Justice
    Operations Narcotics Interdiction to reduce open air drug
    markets, NITRO. This program is designed to improve the quality
    of life in the city's neighborhoods by reducing the incidents
    of drug trafficking.
        The Newark Police Department's statistics show that an
    estimated 80 percent of crime in Newark is drug related. The
    single most significant impact law enforcement could have is
    through dismantling criminal enterprises by targeting the
    infrastructure and profits associated with the drug trade.
    Operation NITRO is a comprehensive effort designed to address
    long-term operations through collaboration strategies as, one,
    proactive street level enforcement to search warrants for mid
    and upper level drug trafficking networks, asset seizures
    through civil enforcement, neighborhood problem solving, and
    high visibility fear reduction. The Police Department has
    identified requirements for specialized facilities and
    equipment needs such as cellular phones, wireless transmitters,
    recording devices, night vision infrared equipment will be
    needed. In addition, vehicle based computers, cameras and
    videotape recorders are needed to facilitate this operation.
        Finally, and my last request is for the Center for
    Biodefense. Changing international conditions, post-Cold War
    deployment of U.S. troops in new geographic areas and an
    increasingly global economy has contributed to a resurgence of
    infectious diseases and the threat of domestic and
    international chemical and biological attacks. We saw that in
    New York City with the West Nile virus. And so UMDNJ has
    created an International Center for Public Health, a world
    class infectious disease research and treatment complex in the
    University Heights Science Park in Newark as a direct response
    to this emerging public health and safety crisis. The center
    consists of the Public Health Research Institute, an
    internationally prestigious biomedical research institute that
    conducts a broad range of infectious disease and public health
    research; the UMDNJ National Tuberculosis Center, one of the
    three federally funded TB centers; and the UMDNJ New Jersey
    Medical School Department of Microbiology and Molecular
    Genetics.
        The center has received State and Federal support in its
    mission to become one of the premier centers focusing on
    infectious disease research and treatment. UMDNJ University
    Hospital will coordinate training programs for emergency
    department physicians and nurses. University EMS will also
    coordinate EMS technical classes. Participants from these
    programs will be from Newark area hospitals, Level I and Level
    II trauma centers, and specialty healthcare centers. This is
    the critical logistical challenge confronting New Jersey, and
    it warrants your particular consideration.
        With that, Mr. Chairman since our time is running out, I
    would urge your strong consideration for these three very
    worthwhile projects, one of many that are needed. And I know of
    the dozens and dozens that come before you, but I do feel that
    these three unique projects will have a tremendous impact on
    the State of New Jersey and in the 10th Congressional District
    which still lags behind other areas. With the great resurgence
    in this Nation, we are still lagging behind. So I would
    appreciate any consideration you can give us.
        [The information follows:]
             [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Mr. Rogers. Thank you very much for your very eloquent
    statement. Did you say 80 percent of the crimes are drug
    related?
        Mr. Payne. That is right.
        Mr. Rogers. What is the chief drug they have been using?
        Mr. Payne. It is cocaine. What happens is out of towners
    come into the city. Drug dealing is something that is done very
    rarely in the suburbs, and suburban use is as high as in the
    city. Matter of fact, it is much higher because inner city
    people can't afford it. So the out of towners come in late at
    night or early in the morning; there is a pattern. That is why
    we need the infrared things. They will come in at 3:00 or 4:00
    in the morning, 5:00 o'clock in the morning, 1:00 or 2:00 in
    the morning, any time after dark. It is cocaine.
        Now, we have a new drug that is being used in the suburbs
    that is used by teenagers, and New Jersey has sort of the
    highest growing number of users that are addicted to it. It is
    very hallucinatory and dangerous and could actually cause
    death.
        Mr. Rogers. Is that methamphetamine?
        Mr. Payne. That is correct, coming from the Netherlands.
    Newark International Airport, now being a new international
    airport, direct flights from Amsterdam, we see that this drug,
    like I said, is usually white teenage and young adults from
    suburban communities, is another problem that we have.
        So the bad part about it is that many of these youngsters
    are really not bad kids. It is just that they figure this is
    the only thing they could do for a living. It is sad. You would
    be surprised. You could have a roomful of drug dealers and you
    could have a roomful of kids going to high school and college
    and you wouldn't know the difference because they are basically
    not bad. When I was a kid if a guy was a criminal he was tough,
    rough, you have got to keep out of his way. These kids are just
    kind of brought in because they have nothing else to do.
        So anything we could do in this area would not only help
    the city but perhaps these kids in the future if we could cut
    it off and try to redirect them.
        Mr. Rogers. We made available now for several years running
    and including the current year hundreds of millions of dollars
    for the local law enforcement block grants. Moneys can be used
    for anything that the local law enforcement people feel is
    suited to their needs. So I would encourage you and them to
    attempt to get grants through that program, and the Juvenile
    Justice Grant Program as well, and the Violence Against Women
    Grants. There are lots of grants that Justice has. And the
    record shows they don't give all of that money out every year.
    So there is money there. And I would encourage you and your
    local police departments to seek that out.
        One final question. You mentioned tuberculosis. Is there a
    resurgence?
        Mr. Payne. Yes. As a matter of fact, the strain is very--it
    is a tough strain. One of the problems that happened when
    tuberculosis reemerged was that no one made the drug to deal
    with it, the streptomycin. No one made it and it was of no
    profit to the drug makers. So when it reoccurred there was a
    lack of adequate drugs to handle it. Currently this new
    tuberculosis though is resistant to the old treatment. There
    has to be a cocktail of three or four different drugs that have
    to be brought together. As a matter of fact, we have outreach
    with people that go in and find--it has to be taken daily if
    you are going to eradicate the disease. So it is a tough
    strain. We have this new center that is dealing with it to see
    about--you know, cocktails or something. You have to take four
    or five pills. If they can take the ingredients of four or five
    and then come up with a single pill, then you are going to have
    more success. One of the reasons people don't want to come to
    take it is all day long you are simply taking pills.
        But it is a new resistant strain. It is tough to--you see
    the bad part about tuberculosis is you don't have to--to get
    certain diseases you have to maybe do something you shouldn't
    have done. Tuberculosis, all you have to do is be on the subway
    and someone coughs in your face or on the metro or in a bus or
    plane. It is just contagious. Therefore, I think that we really
    have a responsibility because you can get it just by being and
    standing somewhere.
        So I would hope that we could really have the focus on this
    new resurgence because if we are going to have resistant
    strains we are in bad shape. Once again a resurgence in
    tuberculosis is just unbelievable.
        Mr. Rogers. Thank you for your testimony.
        Mr. Serrano.
        Mr. Serrano. Just very briefly on that point. I am very
    much familiar with this issue of tuberculosis. When I was a
    child it was major problem in Puerto Rico and then it became a
    problem of the Puerto Rican communities in the United States.
    Then, thank God, with drugs and proper nutrition and rest and
    whatever it disappeared. Now it has come back, not related to
    any particular community like it was before but related in
    general to a condition, where he is correct. It could be
    someone who is suffering from the HIV infection or who has got
    a drug problem and then it is spreading throughout areas like
    ours and throughout cities like ours with no relationship to
    anything that doctors can point a finger to. So it is really a
    major problem.
        One last point, Mr. Chairman. We don't seem to be paying
    attention to it. We don't seem to know that it came back.
        Mr. Payne. That is right. It is definitely back.
        Mr. Rogers. Thank you so much for your testimony.
                                  ----------

                                              Thursday, March 23, 2000.

                        TESTIMONY OF MEMBERS OF CONGRESS

                                    WITNESS

    HON. JIM SAXTON, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF NEW
        JERSEY
        [The information follows:]
             [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Mr. Rogers. The hearing is adjourned.
        [The following statements were submitted for the record:]
             [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]