    [House Hearing, 106 Congress]
    [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]

    [106th Congress House Hearings]
    [From the U.S. Government Printing Office via GPO Access]
    [DOCID: f:64063.wais]

     MARKUP OF H.R. 1883, THE IRAN NONPROLIFERATION ACT OF 1999; AND H.R.
          2367, THE TORTURE VICTIM RELIEF REAUTHORIZATION ACT OF 1999

    =======================================================================

                                     MARKUP

                                   BEFORE THE

                                  COMMITTEE ON
                            INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS
                            HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                           ONE HUNDRED SIXTH CONGRESS

                                 FIRST SESSION

                                   __________

                          THURSDAY, SEPTEMBER 9, 1999

                                   __________

                               Serial No. 106-94

                                   __________

        Printed for the use of the Committee on International Relations

                        U.S. GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE
    64-063 CC                   WASHINGTON : 2000

                      COMMITTEE ON INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS

                     BENJAMIN A. GILMAN, New York, Chairman
    WILLIAM F. GOODLING, Pennsylvania    SAM GEJDENSON, Connecticut
    JAMES A. LEACH, Iowa                 TOM LANTOS, California
    HENRY J. HYDE, Illinois              HOWARD L. BERMAN, California
    DOUG BEREUTER, Nebraska              GARY L. ACKERMAN, New York
    CHRISTOPHER H. SMITH, New Jersey     ENI F.H. FALEOMAVAEGA, American
    DAN BURTON, Indiana                      Samoa
    ELTON GALLEGLY, California           MATTHEW G. MARTINEZ, California
    ILEANA ROS-LEHTINEN, Florida         DONALD M. PAYNE, New Jersey
    CASS BALLENGER, North Carolina       ROBERT MENENDEZ, New Jersey
    DANA ROHRABACHER, California         SHERROD BROWN, Ohio
    DONALD A. MANZULLO, Illinois         CYNTHIA A. McKINNEY, Georgia
    EDWARD R. ROYCE, California          ALCEE L. HASTINGS, Florida
    PETER T. KING, New York              PAT DANNER, Missouri
    STEVE CHABOT, Ohio                   EARL F. HILLIARD, Alabama
    MARSHALL ``MARK'' SANFORD, South     BRAD SHERMAN, California
        Carolina                         ROBERT WEXLER, Florida
    MATT SALMON, Arizona                 STEVEN R. ROTHMAN, New Jersey
    AMO HOUGHTON, New York               JIM DAVIS, Florida
    TOM CAMPBELL, California             EARL POMEROY, North Dakota
    JOHN M. McHUGH, New York             WILLIAM D. DELAHUNT, Massachusetts
    KEVIN BRADY, Texas                   GREGORY W. MEEKS, New York
    RICHARD BURR, North Carolina         BARBARA LEE, California
    PAUL E. GILLMOR, Ohio                JOSEPH CROWLEY, New York
    GEORGE RADANOVICH, California        JOSEPH M. HOEFFEL, Pennsylvania
    JOHN COOKSEY, Louisiana
    THOMAS G. TANCREDO, Colorado
                        Richard J. Garon, Chief of Staff
              Kathleen Bertelsen Moazed, Democratic Chief of Staff
         Hillel Weinberg, Senior Professional Staff Member and Counsel
                         Jill N. Quinn, Staff Associate

                                C O N T E N T S

                                  ----------

                                   WITNESSES

                                                                       Page

    Markup of H.R. 2367, The Torture Victims Relief Reauthorization
      Act of 1999....................................................     1
    Markup of H.R. 1883, The Iran Nonproliferation Act of 1999.......     4

                                    APPENDIX

    Prepared statements:

    Hon. Joseph Crowley, a Representative in Congress from New York,
      concerning H.R. 1883...........................................    75

    Bills and amendments:

    H.R. 2367........................................................    22
    Admendment to H.R. 2367, offered by Rep. Smith...................    27
    H.R. 1883........................................................    28
    Admendment in the nature of a substitute to H.R. 1883, offered by
      Rep. Gilman and Rep. Gejdenson.................................    40
    Admendment to the Gilman/Gejdenson amendment in the nature of a
      substitute, offered by Rep. Brady..............................    81

    Additional material submitted for the record:

    Letter sent to Assistant Secretary Karl Inderfurth, Department of
      State, dated August 25, 1998, submitted by Rep. Rohrabacher....    54
    Letter sent to Assistant Secretary Karl Inderfurth, Department of
      State, dated August 3, 1999, submitted by Rep. Rohrabacher.....    56
    Requested State Department documents relating to Afghanistan,
      submitted by Rep. Rohrabacher..................................    57
    Letter from Assistant Secretary of State for Legislative Affairs
      Barbara Larkin, stating the Administrations views on H.R. 1883,
      submitted by Rep Gilman........................................    82

    MARKUP OF H.R. 1883, THE IRAN NONPROLIFERATION ACT; AND H.R. 2367, THE
                   TORTURE VICTIMS RELIEF REAUTHORIZATION ACT

                                  ----------

                          Thursday, September 9, 1999

                      House of Representatives,
                  Committee on International Relations,
                                               Washington, D.C.
        The Committee met, pursuant to call, at 10 a.m. in Room
    2172 Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Benjamin A. Gilman
    [Chairman of the Committee] presiding.
        Chairman Gilman. The Committee on International Relations
    meets today in open session pursuant to notice to take up two
    bills, the Iran Nonproliferation Act and the Torture Victims
    Relief Reauthorization Act, H.R. 2367. We will first be
    considering the torture victims bill.
        The Torture Victims Relief Reauthorization Act of 1999,
    H.R. 2367, was referred by the Speaker to the Committee on
    International Relations and also to the Committee on Commerce,
    in each case for consideration of such provisions as fall
    within the jurisdiction of the committee concerned.
        The Chair lays the bill before the Committee. The clerk
    will report the title of the bill.
        [The information appears in the appendix.]
        Ms. Bloomer. H.R. 2367, a bill to reauthorize a
    comprehensive program of support for victims of torture.
        Chairman Gilman. Without objection, the first reading of
    the bill will be dispensed with. The clerk will read the bill
    for amendment.
        Ms. Bloomer. Be it enacted by the Senate and the House of
    Representatives of the United States of America in Congress
    assembled, Section 1. Short title. This act may be cited as the
    Torture Victims Relief Reauthorization Act of 1999.
        Chairman Gilman. Without objection, the bill is considered
    as having been read. It is open to amendment at any point.
        I will now recognize myself for as much time as I may
    consume.
        I want to commend Chairman Smith and the Ranking Minority
    Member, Ms. McKinney, of the Subcommittee on International
    Operations and Human Rights for crafting this timely initiative
    which addresses a critical area of our efforts to combat human
    rights abuses, treatment of those individuals who have suffered
    the effects of torture at the hands of governments as a means
    of destroying dissent and opposition.
        The resolution rightly recognizes the importance of
    treating victims of torture in order to combat the long-term,
    devastating effects that torture has on the physical and
    psychological well-being of those who have undergone this
    pernicious form of abuse. Torture is an extremely effective
    method to suppress political dissent. For those governments
    which lack the legitimacy of democratic institutions to justify
    their power, torture can provide a bulwark against popular
    opposition.
        This measure authorizes funding at the level of $10 million
    per year for the next three years for treatment centers in our
    Nation and overseas. It also authorizes our State Department to
    contribute $5 million in both fiscal years 2001 and 2002, and
    also in 2003, to the United Nations Voluntary Fund for the
    Victims of Torture.
        Political leaders of undemocratic societies still find
    torture useful, because its aims are the destruction of the
    personality. It attempts to rob those individuals who would
    actively involve themselves in opposition, to suppress their
    self-confidence and other characteristics that produce
    leadership.
        I quote from the speech by Dr. Inge Genefke, who is a
    founder of the International Treaty Movement, and I quote,
    ``Sophisticated torture methods today can destroy the
    personality and the self-respect of human beings. Many victims
    are treated and threatened with having to do or say things
    against their ideology or religious convictions for the purpose
    of attacking fundamental parts of the identity, such as self-
    respect and self-esteem. Torturers today are capable to create
    conditions which effectively break down the victim's
    personality and identity and their ability to live a full life
    later with and amongst other human beings.''
        Accordingly, I urge our colleagues to join in approving
    this legislation.
        I now recognize the sponsor of this legislation, the
    distinguished Chairman of our Subcommittee on International
    Operations, Mr. Smith.
        Mr. Smith. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, and thank you
    for scheduling the markup of this legislation this morning.
        Mr. Chairman, on June 29th, the Subcommittee on
    International Operations and Human Rights conducted a hearing
    on U.S. policy toward victims of torture. The testimony
    presented there emphasized the continuing, compelling need for
    this legislation. Those who suffered the unspeakable cruelty of
    torture at the hands of despotic governments bear physical,
    emotional and psychological scars for the rest of their lives.
    For many, if not most, the ordeal of torture does not end when
    they are released from a gulog, laogai or prison. These walking
    wounded need professional help and rehabilitation.
        The United States law regarding torture victims took a
    giant step forward on October 30th, 1998 with the enactment of
    Public Law 105-320, the Torture Victims Relief Act. I am proud
    to have been the principal sponsor of that act, which was
    cosponsored by many of our colleagues on this Committee. It
    authorized $12.5 million over two years for assistance to
    torture victim treatment centers both here in the United States
    and around the world. It also authorized a U.S. contribution in
    the amount of $3 million per year to the United Nations
    Volunteer Fund for Torture Victims. Finally, it required that
    foreign service officers be given specialized training in the
    identification of torture and its long-term effects, techniques
    for interviewing torture victims and related subjects.
        To continue the good work begun by that law, I, along with
    Chairman Gilman, Ms. McKinney, and Mr. Lantos, recently
    introduced H.R. 2367, the Torture Victims Relief
    Reauthorization Act. This bill will extend and increase the
    authorization of last year's act through fiscal year 2003. For
    each of the three fiscal years it covers, the reauthorization
    act authorizes $10 million for domestic treatment centers.
        The Center for Victims of Torture estimates that there are
    as many 400,000 victims of foreign governmental torture here in
    the United States. At present, there are only 14 domestic
    treatment centers, which are able to serve only a small
    fraction of the torture population in the U.S. Because many of
    their clients do not have health insurance, the centers must
    bear most of the costs of treatment. Our hope is that the money
    authorized by H.R. 2367 will support these existing efforts and
    perhaps even enable the Department of Health and Human Services
    Office of Refugee Resettlement to establish much-needed new
    centers.
        The bill also authorizes $10 million per year for
    international treatment centers. According to the International
    Rehabilitation Council for Torture Victims, the IRCT, the
    leading international government organization engaged in
    treating victims of torture, $33 million is needed in 1999
    alone for international rehabilitation efforts. Currently,
    there are about 175 torture victim treatment centers around the
    world.
        The bill also authorizes $5 million per year for U.S.
    contribution to the United Nations Voluntary Fund for Victims
    of Torture. I am pleased to note that the Administration
    greatly increased the U.S. contribution to the fund this year
    to $3 million, the full level authorized by the Torture Victims
    Relief Act. We should continue this trend and even expand our
    commitment to this worthwhile multilateral effort.
        Finally, the bill requires the State Department to report
    on its effort to provide specialized training to foreign
    service officers as mandated by the Torture Victims Relief Act.
    It is important that our personnel who deal with torture
    victims be able to identify evidence of torture and its long-
    term effects, and learn techniques for interviewing torture
    victims who may still be suffering trauma from their
    experiences.
        At our recent Subcommittee hearing, it became apparent that
    the State Department has not implemented any such training.
    This reporting requirement will serve as a wake-up call to
    prompt the Department to fill its statutory obligations.
        I am very happy that this legislation is before us. At the
    appropriate time, Mr. Chairman, I do have a technical amendment
    at the desk.
        Chairman Gilman. Are you asking for the amendment to be
    submitted?
        Mr. Smith. I would ask that the amendment be considered.
        Chairman Gilman. The clerk will read.
        Ms. Bloomer. The amendment offered by Mr. Smith, page 2,
    line 5, strike----
        Mr. Smith. Mr. Chairman, I ask unanimous consent that the
    amendment be considered as read.
        Chairman Gilman. The amendment will be considered as read.
    The clerk will distribute the amendment.
        The gentleman is recognized for 5 minutes on the amendment.
        [The information appears in the appendix.]
        Mr. Smith. Mr. Chairman, I will be very brief; it was
    prepared with the assistance of Mr. Gejdenson and his staff.
    The amendment does two things, first it conforms the language
    of the authorization for assistance to international torture
    centers in this bill to the corresponding language of the
    Torture Victims Relief Act as enacted into law last year.
        Second, it renumbers the section to the Foreign Assistance
    Act created by last year's legislation. Congress inadvertently
    created two sections with the same section number, and this
    amendment, a technical amendment, will fix that problem. I am
    grateful to David Abramowitz, of the Democratic staff, for
    bringing our attention to this--the need for this amendment. I
    do urge its adoption.
        Chairman Gilman. Thank you. The gentleman has offered the
    amendment. Are there any Members seeking recognition on the
    amendment?
        If no one seeks recognition, the question is now on the
    amendment. All those in favor, signify in the usual manner.
        Opposed?
        The amendment is carried.
        We will now proceed to consider the measure further.
        Are there any Members seeking recognition on the measure
    before us? If there is no one seeking recognition, I recognize
    Mr. Bereuter for a motion.
        Mr. Bereuter. Mr. Chairman, I move that the Chair may be
    requested to seek consideration of the pending bill on the
    suspension calendar.
        Chairman Gilman. The question is now on the motion by the
    gentleman from Nebraska. Those in favor of the motion, signify
    in the usual manner.
        Those opposed, say no.
        The ayes have it; the motion is agreed to.
        Further proceedings on this matter are now postponed.
        Chairman Gilman. We will now proceed to the other measure
    before this Committee, H.R. 1883, relating to Iran. This bill
    was referred by the Speaker to our Committee on International
    Relations and also to the Committee on Science; in each case,
    for consideration of such provisions which fall within the
    jurisdiction of the committee concerned.
        The bill was introduced by myself, by Mr. Gejdenson, by Mr.
    Sensenbrenner, and by Mr. Berman. The Chair lays the bill
    before the Committee and the clerk will report the title.
        [The information appears in the appendix.]
        Ms. Bloomer. H.R. 1883, a bill to provide for the
    application of measures to foreign persons who transfer to Iran
    certain goods, services, or technology, and for other purposes.
        Chairman Gilman. Without objection, the first reading of
    the bill is dispensed with. The clerk will read the bill for
    amendment.
        Ms. Bloomer. Be it enacted by the Senate and the House of
    Representatives of the United States of America in Congress
    assembled, Section 1. Short title. This act may be cited as the
    Iran----
        Chairman Gilman. I have an amendment in the nature of a
    substitute at the desk on behalf of myself and Mr. Gejdenson.
    The clerk will report the amendment, which is on the desks of
    the Members.
        [The information appears in the appendix.]
        Ms. Bloomer. Amendment offered by Mr. Gilman and Mr.
    Gejdenson. Strike all after the enacting clause and insert the
    following: Section 1. Short title. This act may be cited as the
    Iran Nonproliferation Act of 1999.
        Chairman Gilman. I ask unanimous consent that the amendment
    in the nature of a substitute be considered as having been
    read, and that it be open to amendment at any point. Without
    objection, it is so ordered.
        I will now recognize myself to speak briefly to the
    amendment in the nature of a substitute.
        Today we are marking up the Iran Nonproliferation Act of
    1999, which Mr. Gejdenson, Mr. Berman and I introduced on May
    20th of this year. This legislation has 220 cosponsors. We feel
    we must be on the right track.
        The purpose of our legislation is to reverse the very
    dangerous situation we are confronting today in which firms in
    Russia, in China, in North Korea and elsewhere are transferring
    to Iran goods, services, and technology that will assist in the
    development of weapons of mass destruction, and missiles
    capable of delivering such weapons. In the hands of a rogue
    state like Iran these weapons pose a clear and present danger,
    not only to our friends and allies in the region, but also to
    the tens of thousands of our military personnel in the Persian
    Gulf and in adjacent areas.
        The proliferation of these technologies to Iran has been
    going on for a number of years, and to its credit, the
    Administration has been working to try to stop it. But all
    available evidence indicates that, to date, those efforts have
    failed. The proliferation today is as bad as it has ever been.
        The purpose of our legislation is to give the
    Administration some new tools to address the problem, giving
    the countries that are transferring these items to Iran
    powerful new reasons to stop proliferating, and giving Congress
    greater insight into what is happening.
        A summary of our legislation is now before the Members, so
    I will not belabor the details of what it does. Mr. Gejdenson
    and I have laid before the Committee the amendment in the
    nature of a substitute that is now before us. It contains a
    number of changes to the bill that we have agreed to make. Some
    of these changes were made at the request of the
    Administration, and others at the request of Mr. Gejdenson and
    other Members.
        Most of them are technical in nature, dealing with such
    matters as timeliness for submission of reports to Congress and
    refinements of some of the definitions. A few are more
    substantive. For instance, in section 5, we have added two
    additional grounds upon which the President can decide to
    exempt a foreign person from application of measures provided
    in the bill.
        There are instances in which a transfer made by the foreign
    person was consistent with the procedures and with an
    international nonproliferation regime in instances in which a
    foreign person has been adequately punished by the government
    with primary jurisdiction over the person.
        Overall, I believe that the changes in this bipartisan
    amendment offered by myself and Mr. Gejdenson improve the bill,
    and I will urge its adoption.
        I now turn to one of the original cosponsors of the
    measure, Mr. Gejdenson, and ask for his comments.
        Mr. Gejdenson.
        Mr. Gejdenson. Thank you. I want to commend the staffs and
    the Members for working together to come up with language to
    try and deal with some of the complexities in this issue. There
    are obviously some remaining questions of control and the
    proper responses. I think anyone watching the situation in
    Russia today has to be concerned about the stability of a
    country that still possesses 6,000- to 9,000 warheads, that has
    the capabilities in a number of technologies that provide for
    weapons of mass destruction.
        As much as we try to assist the Russians in developing a
    civil society and developing the ability to govern themselves
    in a democratic manner, we need to make sure that the Russian
    Government continues its basic responsibilities, like
    nonproliferation; and I commend the Chairman and both staffs
    for the work we have done in trying to narrow some of the
    differences in trying to achieve the goal of limiting the
    proliferation of technology out of Russia.
        Chairman Gilman. Thank you, Mr. Gejdenson.
        Who else seeks recognition? Mr. Rohrabacher.
        Mr. Rohrabacher. If there is another Member who wants to
    speak on this, I will be happy----
        Chairman Gilman. Mr. Berman.
        Mr. Berman. Thank you, I move to strike the last word.
        I support the substitute. I support the base bill.
    Secretary Indyk, when he was here recently, testified that
    Iran's clandestine efforts to procure nuclear, chemical, and
    biological weapons continues despite Iran's adherence to
    relevant international nonproliferation conventions. In
    addition to their work in the nuclear, chemical, and biological
    weapons arena, we are all aware of their testing and
    development of intermediate range ballistic missiles, and
    missiles which ultimately might be longer than that, and the
    threat that that poses.
        It seems to me we need, and have an obligation, to do
    everything we can to impede Iran's ability to develop these
    weapons, and that applies without regard to what one's view is
    about what our political and diplomatic approach to Iran might
    be. We can pursue negotiations. We can pursue openings. We can
    seek to develop closer ties with the Khatami regime, and at the
    same time, I think we have an obligation to our own people and
    to our allies to do everything we can to impede their ability
    to develop weapons of mass destruction and the means to deliver
    them.
        This is an important piece of legislation seeking to do
    just that. While the legislation applies generically across the
    board, there has been specific focus on the issue of
    proliferation by entities in Russia to Iran. For anyone who has
    any doubts about this issue, I would urge them to obtain the
    classified briefings on the subject and get a sense of what we
    know of what is actually happening.
        There are some who might think that this is just a form of
    Russia-bashing. I would disagree. One can decide that the
    primary issue in U.S. foreign policy is to do everything we can
    to ensure the successful transition of Russia to democracy.
    Some think we should be doing far more than we are even doing
    in the context of threat reduction by virtue of working with
    them to safeguard enriched plutonium, to destroy weapons,
    warheads, to employ these scientists, to do things which show
    them that we have no intentions against them and their
    sovereignty and their security.
        At the same time, I think we have--not just a right, but an
    obligation to tell them something which is clearly in our
    national security interests and in their national security
    interests. As their leadership has acknowledged over and over
    again, we have--we cannot sit around and just go forward
    working with them while they are allowing this kind of
    technology, key critical components for these kinds of systems,
    to proliferate to Iran. I think many experts in the field of
    U.S.-Russian relationships--people, in fact, who are critical
    that we haven't done enough in terms of Russia--would not argue
    with the point that in an area where the Russian Government has
    control, we have a right and an obligation to expect that the
    Russian Government will do every single thing it can to stop
    that proliferation.
        So I want to commend the Chairman and the Ranking Member
    for joining together on this legislation. I also want to thank
    the Chairman for putting the bill over until after the recess.
    There were certain representations made by then-Russian Prime
    Minister Stepashin regarding things that were going to be done,
    and both the Chairman and, in the end, the Republican
    leadership, agreed to put the bill over. Of course, we now have
    a new Prime Minister, so it is unclear what the value of those
    representations are, but at this point I think we should move
    ahead with the legislation.
        There is one issue that is of some concern, and that is to
    question the extent to which we are asking the Space Agency in
    Russia to control more than they can, and to have impacts on
    that which they cannot control. But if I were to err, at this
    particular point in the legislative process, on the side of
    underestimating their ability to control versus overestimating,
    I choose to overestimate.
        This legislation may in fact do that. We have plenty of
    time to take a look at that. So I would urge the adoption of
    the substitute and the bill, and its passage.
        Chairman Gilman. Thank you, Mr. Berman.
        Mr. Rohrabacher.
        Mr. Rohrabacher. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to
    commend you and the other Members involved with this piece of
    legislation for demonstrating that the Congress, and the House,
    and this Committee, certainly have a role to play in foreign
    policy, and in oversight of American foreign policy, and
    especially in this vital region--or shall I say ``volatile
    region,'' instead of ``vital region,'' because they are both
    vital and volatile.
        But taking note of the importance that we have placed on
    Iran--and let me note at this moment that we have not paid that
    same attention to what has been going on in Afghanistan right
    next door, and that efforts by this Committee to obtain
    documents from the Administration concerning our policy in
    Afghanistan have been met with contempt, and with stonewalling,
    and with obfuscation.
        I would like to place in the record a letter that I sent to
    Assistant Secretary Karl Inderfurth about the request of
    documents concerning our policy in Afghanistan that was made
    over a year ago.
        [The information appears in the appendix.]
        Mr. Rohrabacher. I would also place in the record the
    documents that finally arrived after a year. These are the
    documents--so the other Members of my Committee who remember me
    making noise about this issue--these are the documents about
    Afghanistan, they are about one-sixteenth of an inch thick, and
    most of them are newspaper clippings responding to our
    oversight responsibilities. Responding to requests for
    information that were made by this Committee in this volatile
    region in such a manner is contempt of this Committee and
    contempt of our role to oversee American foreign policy.
        Tomorrow, supposedly, some more documents will be made
    available to this Committee, and to myself, and I hope that
    there is much more substance to them than what has been
    presented.
        Chairman Gilman. Without objection, the documents will be
    made a part of the record.
        [The information appears in the appendix.]
        Mr. Rohrabacher. So I support this measure on Iran. I would
    again alert my fellow Members of this Committee that what is
    going on in Afghanistan is as important to America's national
    security as is what is going on in Iran, because we have a
    terrorist base camp where all of the world's heroin is being
    produced right next door to Iran, and our Administration has
    thwarted our attempts to get the documentation of what our
    policy is toward that rogue regime, the Taliban regime.
        I am contending again, and will close my remarks with the
    contention that this Administration has a covert policy of
    supporting the Taliban, which is one of the worst human rights
    abusers toward women. It is an abomination, and the response to
    our requests for information has been an insult.
        With that, I yield back the balance of my time.
        Chairman Gilman. Thank you, Mr. Rohrabacher.
        Ms. Lee.
        Ms. Lee. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        As someone who has consistently supported and will continue
    to support disarmament and peace initiatives throughout the
    world, I believe that this legislation will certainly move us
    one step toward nonproliferation of weapons of mass destruction
    in the Middle East. I am a cosponsor of this legislation
    because I strongly believe that we must take any and all
    actions to stop the spread of these weapons of mass destruction
    in the Middle East, and elsewhere in the world.
        I just returned from Israel with several of my colleagues,
    and let me just say to you that I know, and I think all of us
    know, that the security concerns in the entire region are very,
    very real; but also the prospects for peace are very, very
    real. So this bill moves us, I believe, toward both peace and
    security, not only in the region, but in the entire world.
        So I thank Chairman Gilman and our Ranking Member, Mr.
    Gejdenson, for working out an agreement on this so we can move
    it forward. I certainly support the substitute and hope we do
    move toward passage of this today.
        Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        Chairman Gilman. Thank you, Ms. Lee.
        Mr. Houghton.
        Mr. Houghton. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        I wonder, Mr. Chairman, if we can have comments from the
    Administration on this? I am particularly interested in their
    reaction.
        Chairman Gilman. Is someone from the Administration
    prepared to comment? Please identify yourself.
        Ms. Cooks. I am Shirley Cooks, Deputy Assistant Secretary
    of State for Legislative Affairs. With your permission, Mr.
    Chairman, I would like to ask Deputy Assistant Secretary for
    Nonproliferation Controls John Barker to respond to those
    questions.
        Chairman Gilman. Mr. Barker--thank you, Ms. Cooks.
        Mr. Barker, please identify yourself.
        Mr. Barker. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
        I am the Deputy Assistant Secretary for Nonproliferation
    Controls in the Nonproliferation Bureau of the State
    Department. We appreciate the opportunity to comment on this
    bill.
        A number of you have made some very good statements about
    your proper oversight role here, about the fact that we as the
    United States Government have the right and obligation to
    expect Russia and other countries to do everything they can to
    prevent the spread of weapons of mass destruction, and an
    acknowledgment that the Administration is working hard to try
    to prevent that proliferation, particularly to Iran.
        You have noted that there are some new tools that you will
    provide for us through this legislation, in the form of
    sanctions and other types of incentives and disincentives for
    countries such as Russia and China, to prevent that type of
    proliferation.
        Mr. Chairman, I think we all share the same goals, we all
    want to make sure that the proliferation problem is brought
    under control. None of us are satisfied that that is the
    current state right now. What our concern is, however, with
    this bill, is that it will be counterproductive in what we are
    trying to accomplish.
        Let us talk first about the resources that would be
    necessary, from the Administration's standpoint, to respond to
    this bill. You have set up a plan that would require us either
    to impose sanctions or transfers based on credible information,
    or to provide reports to Congress as to why we have not
    provided those sanctions and implemented those sanctions.
        We work very hard, sir, to try to respond to your oversight
    requirements and your oversight obligations. We come up and try
    to brief you. We appear for hearings. We send you a number of
    congressional reports every year--many reports, several hundred
    pages long each in some cases. We have given you a list of the
    reports and we plan to follow through on those obligations.
        We want to make sure that we put our resources toward
    fighting proliferation rather than writing reports. That is one
    of the problems that we will have with this bill. We are
    certainly at your disposal to send you all of the reports that
    you need, but we ask that you look carefully at whether it is
    worthwhile to put all of our resources toward writing reports
    versus trying to stop, trying to interdict, trying to work with
    other countries to ensure that the proliferation problem does
    not go forward.
        Although, of course, the bill is global in scope, its
    intended targets are primarily the Russian entities in Iran. We
    have plenty of authority for dealing with the Russian entities
    now, and Russia is starting to take some steps in the right
    direction. None of us are saying that we are satisfied with
    that. None of us believe that Russia has full control over the
    proliferation problem, but we have seen that Russia is starting
    to take some steps.
        They have recently enacted some new, strong, export control
    legislation, that export control legislation enacted in part
    because of some assistance that we provided through our export
    control work with them. They have adopted a game plan in order
    to ensure that there will be a cutoff of this type of
    proliferation to Iran; and they are working hard and equipping
    their entities with internal compliance programs designed to
    stop proliferation. We are working hard with the Russians to
    give them the training that they need in order to carry that
    out.
        Mr. Chairman, none of us believe that Russia is where it
    needs to be, and indeed other countries are where they need to
    be, in terms of stopping proliferation to Iran. There is no
    higher priority this Administration places then on ensuring
    that there is a cutoff of that type of assistance.
        The problem here is we will eliminate the incentive for the
    countries to work with us. We have made some progress with
    Russia; we have a long way to go. But if we set up a regime
    where sanctions are mandatory, or we have to spend most of our
    time trying to justify why sanctions have not been imposed, we
    will be providing Russia with an incentive not to cooperate
    with us, not to work with us, and not to attempt to follow
    through on some of the obligations that we all believe are
    necessary.
        Mr. Bereuter. [Presiding.]  The gentleman will suspend. The
    Chair asks unanimous consent that the gentleman have two
    additional minutes so that the Representative may continue. Mr.
    Houghton.
        Mr. Barker. Thank you very much, sir.
        Overall, we believe that you have exactly the right goals.
    We need to get a better handle on nonproliferation, both in
    terms of Russia and other countries. None of us believe that
    Russia has taken all of the steps that it needs to take, but I
    think we can all share the view that in order to get Russia to
    move forward we are going to have to work with them
    cooperatively. We are going to have to use the tools at our
    disposal and, indeed, use the sanction laws and discretionary
    determinations which we already have within the executive
    branch.
        We have already imposed some sanctions against Russian
    entities. Those sanctions have had an effect. Many times I
    traveled to Russia and have had to deal with interlocutors on
    the other side of the table who are quite unhappy with the fact
    that we have taken those decisions. But I feel very comfortable
    in defending those, because those entities do not deserve to
    have business with the United States if they are providing
    proliferation-related items to Iran.
        In general, we have seen through a number of congressional
    determinations, such as the Cox Committee, the importance of
    supporting multilateral regimes and ensuring that our export
    controls are enforced worldwide.
        Another problem that we have identified in this bill, and
    we have sent this to you in writing, is the fact that this bill
    would work at undermining our multilateral regimes. We might,
    in some instances, have to report on transfers by other
    countries----
        Mr. Houghton. Could I just interrupt a minute? I am sorry.
        Because we are running out of time, could you just give me
    a one-word answer: Does the State Department support this bill?
        Mr. Barker. We strongly oppose it, sir.
        Mr. Bereuter. I thank the gentleman. Does the gentleman
    wish to yield to Mr. Berman?
        Mr. Houghton. Yes. Fine.
        Mr. Berman. If I could just ask the Administration----
        Mr. Bereuter. Without objection, the gentleman will have
    one additional minute. Mr. Houghton yields to Mr. Berman.
        Mr. Berman. Recognizing that the Administration has made a
    priority, particularly in the last couple of years, year and a
    half, of pushing the Russians to stop their entities from
    proliferating, and recognizing that the Russian Government has
    made some wonderful representations and taken some modest steps
    to do something about that, is there any doubt that,
    notwithstanding your efforts and the Russian steps, there have
    been proliferating activities from Russian entities in the last
    year and a half?
        Mr. Barker. There is no doubt that without our work the
    proliferation problem would have been worse. But there is no
    doubt that the proliferation problem continues.
        Mr. Berman. Okay.
        The other thing--my second question--that is not really a
    question, it is just these reports can be classified if the
    Administration chooses to make them classified. The mere fact
    of reporting transfers of items on a chemical weapons list or
    on a nuclear suppliers list or on a missile technology control
    list, the Congress of the United States should not be the basis
    for undermining international proliferation regimes. We are one
    government.
        So that part of the argument, I just don't--it doesn't have
    any weight with me. The notion that simply the Administration
    reporting what has been transmitted by the country that might
    be a member of the regime that is on a list of items that are
    of special concern in the area of nuclear, chemical,
    biological, or missile proliferation, that that item is
    reported to the Congress somehow undermines the regime, to me
    doesn't hold a lot of water.
        Mr. Bereuter. We will return to regular order. You will
    undoubtedly have a chance to address this in a minute. The time
    of the gentleman has expired.
        The gentleman from California, Mr. Lantos, is recognized
    for five minutes.
        Mr. Lantos. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
        I support the legislation, but I would like to direct my
    remarks to a much broader issue; that is, Russian-U.S.
    relations. Earlier this week, I had a very lengthy and very
    substantive meeting in Moscow with the Foreign Minister of
    Russia, and I addressed the student body of the Russian
    Diplomatic Institute, a very impressive group of young men and
    women, all of them speaking impeccable English, and extremely
    well informed.
        I believe, Mr. Chairman, we have a very serious problem in
    dealing with U.S.-Russian relations on a piecemeal basis. I
    believe that proliferation with respect to Iran continues, and
    I think the legislation deals with it appropriately. But what I
    think is more important than even that issue is a growing
    deterioration of our relations with Russia, stemming in large
    measure from their dramatic change in the international arena.
        My first visit to Russia was in 1956. I have been going
    back with great frequency over the intervening decades, and I
    don't think we are sufficiently sensitive to the fact that one
    of the great, one of the two great superpowers of this world
    just a few years ago is now a bankrupt, destitute society
    facing enormous internal pressures and attempting to make its
    way in an entirely new world.
        I think one of the horrendous mistakes of the Bush
    Administration was to assume that the collapse of the Soviet
    Union would bring about smoothly the emergence of a democratic
    society and a market economy. This incredible naivete, our
    failure to lubricate the process appropriately, is at the
    bottom of many of our current problems.
        My feeling is that what we have today in Russia is a degree
    of anti-Americanism widespread throughout all strata of
    society, even among the most educated and knowledgeable people.
    When I spoke at the university training diplomats on Monday--
    could I have order, Mr. Chairman?
        Mr. Bereuter. The Committee will be in order, Members,
    staff, and audience.
        Mr. Lantos. It took me a great deal of time to attempt to
    convince my audience that our engagement in Kosovo was not
    motivated by a desire to humiliate Russia, that our
    investigation of corruption and money laundering and capital
    flight is not motivated by a desire to attack Russia. I think,
    in connection with this piece of legislation, it is extremely
    important we underscore that what we are interested in is
    stopping proliferation and not again humiliating, and
    attacking, and harassing Moscow.
        I would like to request Chairman Gilman, at the earliest
    possible time, to hold a major public hearing on U.S.-Russian
    relations. This is still the only other nation on the face of
    this planet with a vast stockpile of weapons of mass
    destruction. Russia will again emerge as a major power on this
    planet, if not in five years, in fifteen years, and I think it
    is extremely important that our relations get back on track.
        This piece of legislation--which I believe is needed, and I
    support it--can't help but continue to exacerbate their
    persistent misunderstanding of our motivation. I think it is
    absolutely critical that this Committee, in an open and major
    hearing, deal with the full spectrum of our relations with
    Russia.
        Many things have gone right in Russia. Fifteen years ago,
    none of us would have expected free elections, which will be
    coming for the Duma and the presidency; free press; every
    Russian having a passport; American business still functioning
    very visibly throughout Russia. I think it is important not to
    focus on momentary difficulties, however serious they are, and
    to put U.S.-Russian relations in their proper historic
    perspective.
        Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        Mr. Bereuter. Thank you, Mr. Lantos. Your request will be
    relayed to Chairman Gilman by this Member. I would say all of
    us that attended the Russian-American seminar by the Aspen
    Institute probably came away with the same attitude and
    concerns that the gentleman has expressed.
        The gentleman from New Jersey, Mr. Rothman, is recognized.
        Mr. Rothman. Mr. Chairman, I speak in support of the
    Gilman-Gejdenson substitute. I think this is a useful tool for
    this Nation to enforce our longstanding policy against nuclear
    proliferation all around the world, but also specifically with
    regard to Iran, an as yet declared--self-declared enemy of the
    United States and our allies throughout the region.
        It also is an effective and useful tool in reiterating our
    continued attention to this problem, notwithstanding the great
    many wishful thoughts many of us and others have about progress
    in the region. But wishful thinking expressed without our
    expressed reservations about the status quo can mislead our
    enemies and those who would do us and our allies harm. That is
    why I am supporting this effort; it is full of sound provisions
    that deal with a subject that should concern not only this
    Committee, but all Americans.
        Imagine if the United States of America, the greatest power
    on the Earth, did nothing to stem the flow of dangerous weapons
    technology to the Republic of Iran; imagine if the United
    States of America, the greatest power on Earth, were to support
    the free flow of dangerous weapons technology by our inaction
    or omission, notwithstanding the efforts presently being
    undertaken; imagine if the United States of America were to
    allow Iran, a country which has pledged to destroy our greatest
    ally in the Middle East, Israel, and pledged to undermine
    America's interests throughout the region, were to allow Iran
    to secure the means by which it could destroy our allies and
    our vital national interests.
        I can't imagine these things occurring, that is why I am
    grateful to our Chairman, Mr. Gilman, and our Ranking Member,
    Mr. Gejdenson, for putting forth this substitute amendment. We
    have few more important priorities as an International
    Relations Committee than to prevent the spread of weapons of
    mass destruction to terrorists supporting nations like Iran.
        Hopefully, Iran and Russia will join the fold of peace-
    loving democratic nations, and we will do all that we
    reasonably can to support those efforts. But in the meantime,
    as long as Iran remains a self-declared enemy of the United
    States of America, bent on nuclear proliferation and the
    creation of weapons of mass destruction aimed at not only our
    allies in the region, but our allies in Europe, with
    aspirations to attain the capability of attacking the
    continental United States with weapons of mass destruction, we
    need to stay on guard, focused as a nation, and to remind the
    world that we are on guard and focused in our attention to
    those who would do us harm and do our allies harm.
        I urge my colleagues to support the Gilman-Gejdenson
    substitute.
        Mr. Bereuter. Thank you, Mr. Rothman.
        The Chair would advise of its intention to hear from
    another Democratic Member, Mr. Crowley; then we will move to
    the Brady amendment. We have a quorum here. Then it is my
    expectation we will be able to move to final passage.
        The gentleman is recognized. Mr. Crowley.
        Mr. Crowley. Mr. Chairman, I will be very, very brief. I
    have a statement that I will ask unanimous consent, in
    deference to time, to be read into the record. Just let me add,
    I think the issue of nuclear proliferation, in and of itself,
    is a very scary thought for every American, with the
    possibility of nuclear proliferation by rogue nations being at
    the top of the list.
        I would agree with one statement; I think this will be a
    useful tool. I am sympathetic to the remarks of the State
    Department and the Administration; unfortunately, I don't
    agree. I think the American people are looking for action, not
    only on the part of the State Department and the
    Administration, but also by Congress. I think that these are
    reasonable tools that you will hopefully find helpful.
        So I will be supporting this measure. I thank the Chairman
    for introducing it.
        Mr. Bereuter. Thank you, Mr. Crowley.
        [The statement of Mr. Crowley appears in the appendix.]
        Mr. Bereuter. The gentleman from Texas, Mr. Brady, is
    recognized first for a statement, and then to offer his
    amendment.
        Mr. Brady. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        America has a huge stake in Russia's successful transition
    to a peaceful and open democracy, and no one has made a bigger
    commitment to Russia over the years than America. But this
    reminds me of a statement P.T. Barnum once made, which is,
    ``There is a sucker born every minute.'' While he may have
    created the statement, Russia certainly has embraced it.
        Each year Russia sets up a tent and America is first in
    line, with billions of dollars, to see a show on democracy, on
    free enterprise, on peace. However, each year the stage is
    empty, while behind the tent Russia continues to arm America's
    and its allies' most hateful and deadliest enemy.
        Now, fool us once, shame on them; fool us twice, shame on
    us; and the fifth or sixth time, well, that is a reflection on
    our own competency.
        The real tragedy today is that dollars that we are using,
    American tax dollars that we hope to be used for democracy, are
    really used to harm and destabilize democracy among our allies.
    Dollars we hope to go to free enterprise are used to
    destabilize the progress that is made around the world, and the
    dollars that are used for peace that could be used for our
    veterans or to build our own--rebuild our own military defenses
    are used, in effect, to start to lay the foundation for Cold
    War and threats against America's security.
        There are new and deadly threats to America's security, and
    we must not be the one funding those threats, directly or
    indirectly. But I support this bill, Mr. Chairman. When the
    time is appropriate, I have an amendment that I think clearly
    lays to rest one of the objections that has been raised.
        Mr. Bereuter. Would the gentleman yield?
        Chairman Gilman. [Presiding.] Mr. Bereuter.
        Mr. Bereuter. It is my intention, as I announced, to be
    able to offer his amendment at this point, if that is okay with
    Chairman Gilman. The gentleman still has the time.
        Mr. Brady. Mr. Chairman, I am ready to--there is an
    amendment at the desk.
        [The information appears in the appendix.]
        Chairman Gilman. Would the clerk distribute the amendment?
        Ms. Bloomer. Amendment offered by Mr. Brady: On page 11,
    after line 13, insert the following new subsection, (f) Service
    module exception, (1)----
        Chairman Gilman. The amendment is considered as having been
    read. The gentleman is recognized.
        Mr. Brady. As a supporter of this bill, and as a Member of
    the Science Committee and from a region, Houston, that has a
    big stake in NASA and the International Space Station, I took a
    hard look at one of the key sections in this bill dealing with
    the current space station. What I feel strongly about is that
    this bill is not anti-space station.
        The bill does nothing to prevent all current space station
    agreements and payments from being carried out. Furthermore, it
    doesn't remove Russia as a part in the program, it doesn't
    affect the existing partnership, and it only applies to
    additional payments made above and beyond the existing
    agreement. In fact, the only way this bill can affect the space
    station is if the Russians are proliferating to Iran.
        If Russia is clean, as we hope them to be, then the U.S.
    can continue to send payments. This amendment lays to rest any
    valid objections to this bill as those who--as it relates to
    the space station.
        Mr. Chairman, objection has been raised, ``what if?'', what
    if after all of the testing of the service module provided by
    Russia, when we get it into orbit, problems occur, what then?
    This amendment is a common-sense response to that--it basically
    recognizes the service module built by Russia is critical to
    the space station, it is the living quarters for our
    astronauts, it is hanging in low Earth orbit, and test as well
    as you can, there is nothing like putting something in orbit to
    find out what might go wrong.
        What this amendment says is that in extraordinary
    circumstances and in areas of life support, environmental
    control, orbital maintenance functions, where there is a flaw
    that we cannot fix ourselves or there is not an alternative
    means, that we can contract with the Russian Space Agency or
    its subcontractors, as long as they are clean as well.
        To make sure that this isn't open-ended, this section and
    this amendment ends--ceases to be effective after a U.S.
    propulsion module is in place on the station. I think this
    removes any ``what if'' concerns about the space station. It
    provides us flexibility in a timely response if something
    critical goes wrong; and because this entire bill deals with
    protecting America's interests first, I believe this amendment
    does this.
        It passed the Space and Aeronautics Subcommittee 19-to-3,
    backed by supporters of the old base bill like myself. At this
    point, I would conclude my remarks.
        Chairman Gilman. Thank you, Mr. Brady.
        Let me note that this is an amendment to the Gilman-
    Gejdenson amendment, and that it has been worked out with the
    Science Committee. The Science Committee has no objection, nor
    do we have any objection to the amendment.
        Does anyone else seek recognition? Mr. Rohrabacher.
        Mr. Rohrabacher. Mr. Chairman, I am the Chairman of the
    Space and Aeronautics Subcommittee that oversees this project,
    and I would like to commend Mr. Brady for his responsible
    amendment and his efforts to make sure that what we do will not
    interfere with this multibillion dollar program that we have
    that is under way; and that the efforts that we are trying to
    make to prevent this proliferation with Iran are aimed at
    further future activities, rather than activities that will--
    that are currently under way with Russia and the space station.
        So I would like to commend him and support his amendment.
        Chairman Gilman. If there are no further comments, the
    question is now on the Brady amendment. All those in favor,
    signify in the usual manner.
        Opposed?
        The ayes appear to have it.
        The amendment is agreed to.
        If there are no further amendments, without objection, the
    previous question is ordered on the amendment in the nature of
    a substitute. Without objection, the amendment in the nature of
    a substitute is agreed to.
        The gentleman from Nebraska, Mr. Bereuter, is recognized.
    But before he comments, let me just make note, give notice to
    our colleagues, that Doug and Louise Bereuter are now
    grandparents. Their first grandchild is a boy, Ethan, 7 pounds
    and 2 ounces, born August 12th. They are very proud of being
    new grandparents. Congratulations.
        Mr. Bereuter. Thank you.
        Chairman Gilman. We will now recognize Mr. Bereuter.
        Mr. Bereuter. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        I move that the Committee report the bill as amended to the
    House with the recommendation that the bill do pass.
        Chairman Gilman. The question is now on the motion of the
    gentleman from Nebraska, Mr. Bereuter. All those in favor, say
    aye.
        Those opposed, say no.
        The ayes have it.
        We will take a roll call on the measure. Please signify in
    the usual manner.
        The clerk will call the roll.
        Ms. Bloomer. Mr. Gilman.
        Chairman Gilman. Aye.
        Ms. Bloomer. Mr. Gilman votes aye.
        Mr. Goodling.
        [No response.]
        Ms. Bloomer. Mr. Leach.
        [No response.]
        Ms. Bloomer. Mr. Hyde.
        [No response.]
        Ms. Bloomer. Mr. Bereuter.
        Mr. Bereuter. Aye.
        Ms. Bloomer. Mr. Bereuter votes yes.
        Mr. Smith.
        Mr. Smith. Yes.
        Ms. Bloomer. Mr. Smith votes yes.
        Mr. Burton.
        [No response.]
        Ms. Bloomer. Mr. Gallegly.
        [No response.]
        Ms. Bloomer. Ms. Ros-Lehtinen.
        Ms. Ros-Lehtinen. Yes.
        Ms. Bloomer. Ms. Ros-Lehtinen votes yes.
        Mr. Ballenger.
        [No response.]
        Ms. Bloomer. Mr. Rohrabacher.
        Mr. Rohrabacher. Yes.
        Ms. Bloomer. Mr. Rohrabacher votes yes.
        Mr. Manzullo.
        [No response.]
        Ms. Bloomer. Mr. Royce.
        Mr. Royce. Yes.
        Ms. Bloomer. Mr. Royce votes yes.
        Mr. King.
        [No response.]
        Ms. Bloomer. Mr. Chabot.
        Mr. Chabot. Yes.
        Ms. Bloomer. Mr. Chabot votes yes.
        Mr. Sanford.
        Mr. Sanford. Yes.
        Ms. Bloomer. Mr. Sanford votes yes.
        Mr. Salmon.
        Mr. Salmon. Yes.
        Ms. Bloomer. Mr. Salmon votes yes.
        Mr. Houghton.
        Mr. Houghton. Yes.
        Ms. Bloomer. Mr. Houghton votes yes.
        Mr. Campbell.
        [No response.]
        Ms. Bloomer. Mr. McHugh.
        Mr. McHugh. Yes.
        Ms. Bloomer. Mr. McHugh votes yes.
        Mr. Brady.
        Mr. Brady. Yes.
        Ms. Bloomer. Mr. Brady votes yes.
        Mr. Burr.
        [No response.]
        Ms. Bloomer. Mr. Gillmor.
        Mr. Gillmor. Yes.
        Ms. Bloomer. Mr. Gillmor votes yes.
        Mr. Radanovich.
        Mr. Radanovich. Yes.
        Ms. Bloomer. Mr. Radanovich votes yes.
        Mr. Cooksey.
        Mr. Cooksey. Yes.
        Ms. Bloomer. Mr. Cooksey votes yes.
        Mr. Tancredo.
        Mr. Tancredo. Yes.
        Ms. Bloomer. Mr. Tancredo votes yes.
        Mr. Gejdenson.
        Mr. Gejdenson. Yes.
        Ms. Bloomer. Mr. Gejdenson votes yes.
        Mr. Lantos.
        Mr. Lantos. Yes.
        Ms. Bloomer. Mr. Lantos votes yes.
        Mr. Berman.
        Mr. Berman. Yes.
        Ms. Bloomer. Mr. Berman votes yes.
        Mr. Ackerman.
        Mr. Ackerman. Yes.
        Ms. Bloomer. Mr. Ackerman votes yes.
        Mr. Faleomavaega.
        [No response.]
        Ms. Bloomer. Mr. Martinez.
        [No response.]
        Ms. Bloomer. Mr. Payne.
        [No response.]
        Ms. Bloomer.  Mr. Menendez.
        Mr. Menendez. Yes.
        Ms. Bloomer. Mr. Menendez votes yes.
        Mr. Brown.
        Mr. Brown. Yes.
        Ms. Bloomer. Mr. Brown votes yes.
        Ms. McKinney.
        [No response.]
        Ms. Bloomer. Mr. Hastings.
        [No response.]
        Ms. Bloomer. Ms. Danner.
        Ms. Danner. Yes.
        Ms. Bloomer. Ms. Danner votes yes.
        Mr. Hilliard.
        Mr. Hilliard. Yes.
        Ms. Bloomer. Mr. Hilliard votes yes.
        Mr. Sherman.
        Mr. Sherman. Yes.
        Ms. Bloomer. Mr. Sherman votes yes.
        Mr. Wexler.
        [No response.]
        Ms. Bloomer. Mr. Rothman.
        Mr. Rothman. Yes.
        Ms. Bloomer. Mr. Rothman votes yes.
        Mr. Davis.
        Mr. Davis. Yes.
        Ms. Bloomer. Mr. Davis votes yes.
        Mr. Pomeroy.
        Mr. Pomeroy. Yes.
        Ms. Bloomer. Mr. Pomeroy votes yes.
        Mr. Delahunt.
        [No response.]
        Ms. Bloomer. Mr. Meeks.
        [No response.]
        Ms. Bloomer. Ms. Lee.
        Ms. Lee. Yes.
        Ms. Bloomer. Ms. Lee votes yes.
        Mr. Crowley.
        Mr. Crowley. Yes.
        Ms. Bloomer. Mr. Crowley votes yes.
        Mr. Hoeffel.
        Mr. Hoeffel. Yes.
        Ms. Bloomer. Mr. Hoeffel votes yes.
        Chairman Gilman. The clerk will call the absentees.
        Ms. Bloomer. Mr. Goodling.
        Mr. Goodling. Yes.
        Ms. Bloomer. Mr. Goodling votes yes.
        Mr. Leach.
        [No response.]
        Ms. Bloomer. Mr. Hyde.
        [No response.]
        Ms. Bloomer. Mr. Burton.
        [No response.]
        Ms. Bloomer. Mr. Gallegly.
        [No response.]
        Ms. Bloomer. Mr. Ballenger.
        Mr. Ballenger. Yes.
        Ms. Bloomer. Mr. Ballenger votes yes.
        Mr. Manzullo.
        [No response.]
        Ms. Bloomer. Mr. King.
        [No response.]
        Ms. Bloomer. Mr. Campbell.
        [No response.]
        Ms. Bloomer. Mr. Burr.
        [No response.]
        Ms. Bloomer. Mr. Faleomavaega.
        [No response.]
        Ms. Bloomer. Mr. Martinez.
        [No response.]
        Ms. Bloomer. Mr. Payne.
        [No response.]
        Ms. Bloomer. Ms. McKinney.
        [No response.]
        Ms. Bloomer. Mr. Hastings.
        [No response.]
        Ms. Bloomer. Mr. Wexler.
        [No response.]
        Ms. Bloomer. Mr. Delahunt.
        [No response.]
        Ms. Bloomer. Mr. Meeks.
        Chairman Gilman. The clerk will report the tally.
        Ms. Bloomer.  On this vote, there are 33 ayes and zero
    noes.
        Chairman Gilman. The motion is agreed to. Mr. Bereuter
    requests a right to submit views. I would like to inform the
    Members that this bill will be considered next week, and we
    will be submitting our report as quickly as possible.
        Without objection, the Chair's designee is authorized to
    make motions under Rule XX with respect to a conference on the
    bill or a counterpart from the Senate. Without objection, the
    Chief of Staff is authorized to make technical, conforming and
    grammatical changes to the measure adopted by the Committee.
        Mr. Bereuter.
        Mr. Bereuter. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        I just wanted to announce to Members of the Committee that
    the Asia and the Pacific Subcommittee will hold a hearing on
    East Timor, and as a result of that hearing and the events that
    are occurring, Mr. Lantos and I hope to draft a bipartisan
    resolution which Members may want to consider tomorrow. I just
    wanted to advise that we are doing this.
        The hearing is at 2 o'clock today. Thank you.
        Chairman Gilman. Thank you, Mr. Bereuter. If there is no
    further business.
        Mr. Ackerman. Mr. Chairman, Mr. Chairman.
        Chairman Gilman. Mr. Ackerman.
        Mr. Ackerman. Yes, in the interest of equal time, I would
    like to announce that our colleague, Joe Crowley, and his wife,
    Casey, have become new parents of Joseph Cullen. He will be
    called Cullen, which is the name under which he is registered
    to vote.
        Chairman Gilman. We join in congratulating him.
        Mr. Crowley. It wasn't easy.
        Chairman Gilman. If there is no further business, the
    meeting stands adjourned. Thank you, gentleman and ladies.
        [Whereupon, at 11:08 a.m., the Committee was adjourned.]

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                                A P P E N D I X

                               September 9, 1999

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