[Senate Hearing 105-842]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
S. Hrg. 105-842
RECENT DEVELOPMENTS IN NORTH KOREA
=======================================================================
HEARING
BEFORE THE
SUBCOMMITTEE ON EAST ASIAN
AND PACIFIC AFFAIRS
OF THE
COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN RELATIONS
UNITED STATES SENATE
ONE HUNDRED FIFTH CONGRESS
SECOND SESSION
__________
SEPTEMBER 10, 1998
__________
Printed for the use of the Committee on Foreign Relations
Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.access.gpo.gov/congress/
senate
U.S. GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE
50-901 WASHINGTON : 1998
COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN RELATIONS
JESSE HELMS, North Carolina, Chairman
RICHARD G. LUGAR, Indiana JOSEPH R. BIDEN, Jr., Delaware
PAUL COVERDELL, Georgia PAUL S. SARBANES, Maryland
CHUCK HAGEL, Nebraska CHRISTOPHER J. DODD, Connecticut
GORDON H. SMITH, Oregon JOHN F. KERRY, Massachusetts
CRAIG THOMAS, Wyoming CHARLES S. ROBB, Virginia
ROD GRAMS, Minnesota RUSSELL D. FEINGOLD, Wisconsin
JOHN ASHCROFT, Missouri DIANNE FEINSTEIN, California
BILL FRIST, Tennessee PAUL D. WELLSTONE, Minnesota
SAM BROWNBACK, Kansas
James W. Nance, Staff Director
Edwin K. Hall, Minority Staff Director
------
SUBCOMMITTEE ON EAST ASIAN AND PACIFIC AFFAIRS
CRAIG THOMAS, Wyoming, Chairman
BILL FRIST, Tennessee JOHN KERRY, Massachusetts
RICHARD G. LUGAR, Indiana CHARLES S. ROBB, Virginia
PAUL COVERDELL, Georgia RUSSELL D. FEINGOLD, Wisconsin
CHUCK HAGEL, Nebraska DIANNE FEINSTEIN, California
(ii)
C O N T E N T S
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Page
Campbell, Kurt M., PH.D., Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense,
Asian and Pacific Affairs...................................... 5
Prepared statement........................................... 6
Gallucci, Robert, Dean, School of Foreign Service, Georgetown
University, Washington, D.C.................................... 21
Kartman, Charles F., Special Envoy, Korean Peace Talks,
Department of State............................................ 3
Appendix
Additional Questions for the Record Submitted by the Committee to
Ambassador Kartman............................................. 29
(iii)
RECENT DEVELOPMENTS IN NORTH KOREA
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THURSDAY, SEPTEMBER 10, 1998
U.S. Senate Subcommittee on
East Asian and Pacific Affairs,
Committee on Foreign Relations,
Washington, DC.
The subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 2:08 p.m., in
room SD-419, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Craig Thomas,
chairman of the subcommittee, presiding. Present: Senators
Thomas, Kerry and Robb.
Senator Thomas. I believe we will go ahead and begin. Thank
you all for coming.
I have been chairman of this Subcommittee on East Asian and
Pacific Affairs for almost 4 years now. During that time, the
subcommittee has held more meetings on North Korea than any
other single country, other than China. In fact, our last
hearing was on North Korea.
In that time, I guess I could say that I continue to be
amazed and concerned by the unpredictable and unbalanced nature
of the regime in Pyongyang. Despite widespread starvation and
disease, the government continues to adhere the very economic
policies that have led to this condition in the first place.
Despite worldwide repudiation of communism, the government
continues to revolve around a Stalinist cult of personality,
devoted to Kim Jong-il. Despite international norms and
conventions, the DPRK continues to sell nuclear and
conventional missile technology to rogue nations such as Iraq
and Libya, in violation of the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty.
In spite of the terms of the agreed nuclear framework with
the United States, there continues in North Korea to be
developed a program aimed at producing nuclear materials, or at
least that is apparently the case. Every month brings a new
surprise. This month has been no exception. On the 31st of
August, North Korea fired a two-stage missile through Japanese
airspace. Although uncertain at first, I understand now that
NASA believes the launch placed a satellite, albeit apparently
a nonfunctional one, into orbit.
But it seems to me that there are additional motives for
the launch. First, it was certainly to impress potential
weapons buyers by forcefully announcing the availability of a
new product. Second, it was meant to underscore the elevation
of Kim Jong-il to his newest post and the celebration of the
50th anniversary of the founding of the DPRK. Finally, to up
the ante on its outgoing Four Party Talks and the KEDO
negotiations.
Whatever the intention, its effects on many in Congress,
including myself, have been to undermine our already reticent
support for the present negotiation process with the DPRK. I
have been a supporter, although somewhat begrudging at times,
of the Agreed Framework since its inception. The agreement was
far from perfect, of course. I supported it because I believed
it was an end to our own best interests and the best interests
of East Asia. I supported it through its fits and starts--
supported it when the North diverted oil deliveries to the
military, and supported it when the North showed signs of
restarting their nuclear program. I supported it because, on
the whole, the North Korean movement forward in the Four Party
Talks and cooperation in the nuclear area outweighed the
North's traditional tendency to push the envelope with us.
When North Korea fired off its missile, however, and when
our intelligence community revealed that the North has been
engaged in both propulsion tests and construction of a large,
underground facility, it makes it difficult to continue to have
that kind of support. These acts should drive home the fact to
us that the North's signature on bilateral and international
weapons and nuclear agreements is little better than the paper
it is printed on. It should also cause us to give serious
consideration to examining alternative ways to dealing with the
North, since the efficacy of our present system seems highly
questionable.
I called this meeting today to examine the recent
developments in Korea. I also called it because I, and I think
others, have considerable reservations about our ability to
deal with the proliferation crisis at this time. I will not
surprise my colleagues when I say that the phrase ``Clinton
foreign policy'' is an oxymoron. And this is not a partisan
viewpoint. I have heard it shared by many of my Democrat
colleagues. We are not showing the kind of well-planned,
thoughtful leadership in East Asia that is required there.
The possible consequence of failing foreign policy in this
case, though it is far more serious than the simply collapse of
KEDO, would be the disastrous consequences for us and our
allies in the entire East Asia region. I hope that we can be
convinced that adherence to the present Agreed Framework and
continued negotiations with the North continues to be in the
best interest of the United States and of South Korea and our
Japanese allies. Otherwise, as I mentioned on the floor of the
Senate last week, support for this process will evaporate, and
quite quickly, in the future.
So we welcome you here and we want to hear your comments.
Senator Robb.
Senator Robb. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. If it is any
consolation to you--you mentioned the fact that since you have
chaired this committee for the last 4 years, you have held more
hearings on North Korea--it occurred to me when I looked at
Ambassador Gallucci, who will be on panel two, and remember the
number of meetings that we had under a prior management
agreement that was changed in 1994 with respect to chairing
committees in the Senate and the House, but that we too had
spent more time I believe on this particular topic in this
particular country and the very serious problems that confront
us than any other single country that I recall during that
period.
And I would have to say that with respect to the support,
although in some cases either reluctant or with some
reservations, given some of the incidents that you have
referred to, I have generally married your position in terms of
support for the agreement, but I have had some very pointed
questions.
Ambassador Gallucci was kind enough to smile and say, I
hope that you will ask me some again today. I said I would take
his name in vain a time or two when we were discussing the
evolution of this particular Agreed Framework, et cetera. But
the hearing today is certainly timely. The concerns that you
have raised in your opening statement are extremely important,
and I look forward to hearing from our witnesses.
Senator Thomas. Thank you, sir.
We are pleased to have a distinguished panel this afternoon
that is very knowledgeable. The Hon. Charles Kartman, Special
Envoy to the Korean Peace Talks, Department of State. And I
might add, he has been very much involved very recently in
these talks. Dr. Kurt Campbell, the Deputy Assistant Secretary
of Defense for East Asia and Pacific Affairs. Then, on our
second panel, the Hon. Robert Gallucci, Dean of the School of
Foreign Service at Georgetown, and former Ambassador in this
area. So, Mr. Kartman, if you will begin, sir, please.
STATEMENT OF CHARLES F. KARTMAN, SPECIAL ENVOY, KOREAN PEACE
TALKS, DEPARTMENT OF STATE
Ambassador Kartman. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman,
Senator Robb.
Mr. Chairman, the last time I appeared before you was to
seek confirmation as the U.S. Special Envoy for the Korean
Peace Process. Subsequently, Secretary Albright also appointed
me the U.S. Representative to the Korean Peninsula Energy
Development Organization, which is more commonly known as KEDO.
I want to thank you again for your, and the committee's,
support. I reiterate to you my intention to consult regularly
with you as we proceed with North Korea.
It has been a busy month since I assumed my duties. As you
know, I just returned from New York, following 2 weeks of quite
intensive negotiations with the North Koreans. Those
negotiations resulted in commitments from the DPRK to take a
number of steps toward resolving key U.S. concerns about North
Korea's suspect underground construction, its August 31 launch
of a new, longer-range missile, and its implementation of the
Agreed Framework.
Let me make clear that in these, as in past negotiations,
the U.S. approach is one of seriousness with respect to the
security risks at stake, coupled with deep skepticism. Let me
also be clear, we do not trust North Korean intentions. It
remains indisputable that North Korea represents a major threat
to peace and stability, not only in Northeast Asia but also in
other volatile areas of the world.
We have no illusions about our dealings with North Korea.
There are no assured outcomes. But I must underscore the
significance of the commitments we just obtained in New York.
They will facilitate our ability to deal squarely with the
issues of great and immediate concern: suspect underground
construction and the North Korean missile program. It will also
lead to the quick conclusion of the spent fuel canning, thus
dealing with an otherwise serious proliferation risk.
The understanding we have reached also will lead to a
resumption of Four Party Talks in the near future. We made
clear in New York that the North Koreans need to satisfy our
concerns about the suspect construction in the DPRK. This is
essential for the Agreed Framework. Reaching an agreement to
deal with our concerns in this area is a top priority. And
further talks on this issue, which we intend to continue in the
coming weeks, will address the details of clarifying DPRK
activities to our satisfaction. Clarification must include
access to the site. We made it quite plain to the North Koreans
that verbal assurances will not suffice.
During our recent talks, in close consultation with our
South Korean and Japanese allies, we put the North's missile
program and alleged nuclear activities front and center,
insisting that the DPRK address U.S. concerns in these areas.
As a result, North Korea has agreed to resume missile talks
October 1. During these upcoming negotiations, we will seek to
curtail North Korea's efforts to develop, deploy and sell long-
range missiles.
But if there is anything more than dangerous than a long-
range missle, it is a long-range missile with a nuclear
warhead. That is why we sought and obtained in New York a North
Korean commitment to resume by mid-September, and to complete
quickly and without interruption, the canning of their
remaining spent nuclear fuel. This will put an end to their
threat of recent months to reprocess this spent fuel.
Finally, the North Koreans have agreed to convene a third
round of Four Party Peace Talks by October. It is understood by
all, including the North Koreans, that the participants must
move on to practical business, such as tension reduction. We
remain convinced that firm and steadfast use of available
channels is the best way to achieve the results we seek with
respect to North Korea. This is the basic approach we used in
New York, and it is one that proved valuable during our
negotiations of the Agreed Framework in Geneva.
While we are hopeful that the resumption of the various
talks to which the North Koreans agreed in New York will result
in concrete benefits, we also firmly believe that the Agreed
Framework must continue to be the centerpiece of U.S. policy
toward the DPRK for some time to come.
Though not perfect, the Agreed Framework is still the only
viable alternative we have that has a chance to keep North
Korea's nuclear activities in check as well as keep the North
engaged on other matters. Without the Agreed Framework, North
Korea would have produced a sizable arsenal of weapons-grade
plutonium by now. We have prevented that for close to 4 years,
and we are committed to ensuring that the DPRK's nuclear
program remains frozen for the future. This is, without doubt,
in the interest of the U.S. and our friends and allies in and
beyond the region.
We are clearly better off with the North Korean nuclear
facilities at Yongbyon frozen. To cite specifics, the nuclear
facilities are under IAEA inspection. Pyongyang has agreed, as
a result of this past round of negotiations, to can its
remaining spent fuel. The DPRK is not reprocessing nuclear
fuel. In other words, the compliance record for the existing
facilities is good, and a dangerous program at Yongbyon is
frozen and under inspection. We have made it crystal clear to
the North Koreans that we expect them to continue to live up to
these obligations under the Agreed Framework.
In conclusion, what we seek in our present dealings with
the DPRK is to avoid a return to the circumstances of 1993 and
1994, when tensions between North Korea, its neighbors, the
United States, and the international community were dangerously
high. We will continue to look for ways to reduce tensions on
the Korean Peninsula. While also continuing to be firm and
deliberate with the North. With the proper support, we can go a
long way toward eliminating North Korea's ability to threaten
its neighbors and to export that threat to other parts of the
world.
There is no question that much depends on North Korean
intentions. With the limited tools we have, I can assure you
that we will press the North to take substantive steps to
comply fully with its obligations, we will push to resolve
questions about suspect under construction, and we will persist
in our efforts to eliminate the destabilizing nature of the
North's missile program, including testing, deployment and
exports of missiles.
As we have explained on many occasions, however, this
strategy will be best served if we honor our own commitments
undertaken in the Agreed Framework, and specifically the
provision of heavy fuel oil to the DPRK through KEDO.
Mr. Chairman, this administration has worked closely with
this committee and the Congress as a partner in our broader
policy toward the North, and will continue to do so. Together,
along with our allies and friends, we can make a difference and
do what we can to ensure that Koreans in both the North and
South can live on a peaceful and secure Peninsula.
Thank you very much.
Senator Thomas. Thank you, Ambassador. Dr. Campbell.
STATEMENT OF KURT M. CAMPBELL, PH.D., DEPUTY ASSISTANT
SECRETARY OF DEFENSE, ASIAN AND PACIFIC AFFAIRS
Dr. Campbell. Thank you very much, Chairman Thomas, Senator
Robb. In the interest of time, let me just submit my full
statement for the record and just give you a few thoughts, if I
may. And then I would be happy to take your questions.
First of all, I would like to underscore that we at the
Department of Defense stand by what Ambassador Kartman has just
laid out. One of the benefits of the intensive deliberations
and negotiations that have taken place, not just with the North
Koreans, but with all the other countries in the region, has
been that they have been undertaken with very close interagency
cooperation. And Ambassador Kartman has worked very closely
with my deputy and others in the interagency community to
ensure that we have a very able team effort.
My statement lays out clearly, Mr. Chairman, the steps that
the United States has taken, principally since 1994, to improve
our security status and our capabilities on the Korean
Peninsula. In fact, I do not think there is any other area in
the world that we have put as much effort in terms of enhancing
our deterrence. And that is based on one principal perception,
at least from our perspective at the Department of Defense. And
that is that any hope, the hope of diplomacy, rests on the
reality of our deterrence.
And our deterrence, Mr. Chairman, Senator Robb, on the
Korean Peninsula, I can assure you is quite strong. Our
capabilities there are very credible. And our partnership with
the ROK and our closer consultations on security matters with
others in the region has grown considerably in the last several
years.
Let me just say that immediately after the missile test,
Secretary Cohen asked me to go to the region. And what I
thought I would do is just give you a few brief insights from
close discussions in Beijing and Japan. In China, we met with
senior officials both in the military, intelligence and the
foreign policy community. We made very clear that we were
grateful for previous support that China had given us. But we
have also made it clear that now is the time to increase
efforts behind the scenes directly with North Korea to ensure
that North Korea comes back to the table in terms of the Four
Party agreement, and ceases activities that are contrary to
peace and stability, that are seen as provocative and
undermining of confidence, such as the missile test.
In Japan, I must tell you very clearly that our Japanese
allies and friends saw this missile test as a direct national
security threat to Japan, a very, very serious matter. And I
must tell you that the United States shares these concerns
fully with our Japanese counterparts. Not only are we in close
consultations with our Korean friends, I think as Chuck has
indicated--the Korean Foreign Minster will be in Washington for
meetings with Secretary Albright and other officials tomorrow--
we are also in close consultations with others, particularly
Japan.
Next week, in New York, the Minster for Foreign Affairs and
Defense in Japan will meet with Secretary Albright and
Secretary Cohen. At that meeting, for the first time, the
United States and Japan will launch a dual, bilateral effort to
enhance our cooperation on tactical missile defense systems,
BMD cooperation. We think that will be an important sense of
our commitment to ensure peace and stability. And being the
most technologically sophisticated countries in the world, we
have high confidence that our cooperation will bear fruit in
this regard.
In addition, I think as you know, we have been involved
over many years in terms of deriving what are called defense
guidelines, which will enable the United States and Japan,
working with Korea, to be able to respond to security
challenges in the Asian-Pacific region. And our hope is to be
able to move ahead with those, as well.
So let me just conclude that the period that we are in now,
Mr. Chairman, is a very intense one. We are having probably the
most serious, deliberate, around-the-clock deliberations with
our allies and our interlocutors in North Korea in the recent
period.
Thank you.
[The prepared statement of Dr. Campbell follows:]
Prepared Statement of Dr. Kurt M. Campbell
Mr. Chairman, Members of the Subcommittee, I welcome the
opportunity to represent the Department of Defense in this hearing on
US policy toward the Korean Peninsula.
I would begin my statement by emphasizing that in a time of
uncertainty about the ultimate outcome of tensions on the Korean
Peninsula, the 44-year old US alliance with the Republic of Korea
serves as a bulwark against any forces that would seek to disturb the
existing peace. The stability fostered by this close security
relationship has benefited not only the US and South Korea, but has
also permitted much of the Asia-Pacific region to pursue economic
growth and democratic development.
In deterring aggression from an often unpredictable and highly-
militarized North Korea, the US has helped create an environment in
which Asian states could pursue a development course compatible with
American values and beliefs. This is particularly true in the case of
South Korea. As a result, the security alliance between the US and the
Republic of Korea is more than a treaty commitment--it is a close,
mutually-beneficial partnership built on a shared stake in democracy
and free markets. Our alliance is an essential element of the strategy
for achieving our longstanding security goal--a non-nuclear,
democratic, and peacefully reunified Korean Peninsula. Even after the
North Korean threat passes, the US will coordinate fully with the ROK
to maintain a strong bilateral alliance in the interest of regional
security.
The need for a combined US-ROK military command and force structure
to protect our common values is more compelling than ever. Today the
United States and South Korea confront twin security challenges on the
Korean Peninsula--deterrence of armed conflict and preparation for
crises short of war.
On the first challenge, North Korea's large conventional military
forces continue to threaten the security of the Republic of Korea. Two-
thirds of its 1.1 million military personnel are positioned within 100
kilometers of the Demilitarized Zone, with a substantial artillery
force capable of striking Seoul with little advance notice. In
addition, as North Korea demonstrated by its recent missile launch, it
possesses missiles that not only range the entire Peninsula but reach
far beyond it as well. The US and ROK continue to focus their security
cooperation on deterring the use of this military capability, whether
in an all-out attack on South Korea or in a more limited military
provocation.
At the same time, deteriorating economic conditions within North
Korea and a serious food shortage rooted in the structural failure of
the North's agricultural management system raise questions about future
developments in the North. In this setting, it would be irresponsible
for the US and ROK not to consult closely and be prepared for a range
of contingencies that could occur on the Korean Peninsula. The North
Korean state and its security apparatus still exercise absolute control
over their country and show no sign of loosening their grip. But the US
and ROK cannot ignore the possibility, given the trajectory of North
Korean domestic developments, that potentially destabilizing conditions
could arise in the North in the form of famine, massive refugee flows,
or other disturbing scenarios. The US and ROK would seek to address
such situations in a way that was least disruptive to regional
stability and to resolve them at the lowest level of tension possible.
Without a close defense alliance between the US and South Korea, we
would not be able to respond effectively to these challenges to our
security interests. It is also important in a time of transition and
uncertainty that we give no signals to North Korea that the calculus of
the US-ROK security relationship, which has served us so well, is
changing. We will continue to strongly counter any perception in
Pyongyang that it can drive a wedge between the US and ROK on security
issues.
US-ROK combined forces are well-equipped and prepared to deter and,
if necessary, defeat aggression. But maintaining capable and ready
forces is a constant process. The US is engaged in ongoing efforts to
modernize its Peninsular force of about 37,000 military personnel with
the latest military equipment. These measures have been complemented by
ROK efforts to outfit its military with the most modern tanks, armored
personnel carriers, self-propelled howitzers, and fighter aircraft. The
ROK commitment of resources to defense has been impressive, even during
the current economic crisis. The ROK maintains 670,000 personnel in
uniform and has pledged more than $1 billion in cost-sharing support
for US military forces on the Peninsula from 1996-1998.
Our security objectives in Korea have been greatly aided by
diplomatic breakthroughs during the past several years. In particular,
the engagement process begun by the US-DPRK Agreed Framework, which
froze the North's nuclear program at Yongbyon and its destabilizing
potential, has defused the most immediate source of tension and
deflected what could have been a military confrontation with North
Korea. With the agreement and our underlying security commitment, we
have preserved stability on the Peninsula and created an opening to
pursue the Four Party peace proposal and other issues of concern, such
as missile proliferation and the recovery of Korean War remains. The
Agreed Framework has also provided greater access to North Korea and
some North-South contacts. At the same time, the Agreed Framework has
been under stress as a result of irresponsible and provocative North
Korean acts. We are determined to address these concerns with the DPRK
and ensure its full compliance with the agreement.
Permanent peace on the Peninsula will be accomplished only through
diplomatic/political means, and the Agreed Framework and Four Party
peace proposal begin that process by laying a groundwork for uncoerced
reconciliation between South and North Korea. We must recognize,
however, that these are only initial steps in a long and difficult
course. Our desire for a long-term, stable peace on the Peninsula will
not be realized overnight, but that reality does not diminish the value
of current initiatives toward North Korea. The alternative could very
well be direct conflict with the North, which would take a devastating
toll in lives arid resources. For this reason, it is important for the
US to back the Agreed Framework, and the international consortium that
implements its provisions, with the resources that will permit it to
succeed.
Until North and South Korea find a peaceful solution to their
differences, we remain committed to the terms of the 45-year old
Armistice Agreement. The Armistice Agreement and its mechanisms must
remain until an appropriate arrangement supersedes them. Only South and
North Korea can resolve the division of Korea; therefore, replacement
of the Armistice by an appropriate agreement can come about only
through direct dialogue between South and North Korea. The US, while
addressing near-term security concerns, has worked hard to promote such
a dialogue.
Senator Thomas. Thank you, Doctor.
We are joined by Senator Kerry. Before we have questions,
Senator, would you have any remarks?
Senator Kerry. Mr. Chairman, thank you very much. I
apologize for not being here. I was in Boston for the funeral
of Kirk O'Donnell earlier. And unfortunately I just got a
little backed up. And I apologize for that. But I am glad to be
able to be here. And I would like to just make a brief
statement, if I can.
First of all, I thank you and I commend you for once again
turning the attention of this subcommittee to a timely hearing
on North Korea. We have had a number of hearings, probably more
than in other areas, as a subcommittee. And it underscores, I
think, the importance of our focus on what is happening there,
or what we believe to be happening there.
The Senate's overwhelming vote last week on the McCain
amendment, which effectively cuts off funding for KEDO unless
the President certifies that North Korea is not actively
pursuing a nuclear capability, coupled with the adoption of the
Hutchison amendment, which extends the certification to cover
sales of ballistic missiles to terrorist countries--both of
these steps by the Senate, which we shared and took part in,
reflect the growing concern in Congress about North Korea's
behavior on the nuclear front.
In the last month alone, we have learned that North Korea
is building a secret underground complex, widely believed to be
a nuclear facility, and that it is continuing to upgrade its
ballistic missile capability, as evidenced by the launch of the
previously referred to three-stage TAEPO DONG I missile toward
Japan. These developments are obviously of huge concern to us,
because they violate the spirit, if not the letter, of the
Agreed Framework, and they raise very serious questions about
North Korean intentions, as well as serious questions about the
effectiveness of the Agreed Framework as the linchpin of our
policy toward Pyongyang.
From its inception, let me underscore, the Agreed Framework
had a somewhat limited set of objectives. It covered only the
reactor at Yongbyon and related facilities, not every suspect
site in North Korea. Moreover, it did not compel the North to
accept countrywide special IAEA inspections, those inspections
obviously being crucial to answering the question of whether or
not the North had been able to produce enough fissile material
to make a nuclear bomb. And it did that until several years
after the agreement was signed.
Despite this limited scope, however, the Agreed Framework
has produced some positive results: capping the ability of the
North to reprocess spent fuel with which to build nuclear
weapons and vastly improving our ability to monitor the North's
nuclear program--and, I might add, at very minimal costs to the
taxpayer. But it has not accomplished its underlying strategic
objective: namely, reducing tensions on the Peninsula and
creating an incentive for North Korea to abandon altogether its
nuclear ambitions.
So now, not unlike our choices with respect to Iraq, we
have to make a decision as to how to best advance the
fundamental strategic objective. Do we resuscitate the Agreed
Framework, hoping that the North will get back on track, or do
we now take a different approach?
If we abandon the agreement, we obviously ought to do it
with a clearer understanding of what we may be losing in terms
of capping North Korea's reprocessing of spent fuel and of
intelligence-gathering. If, on the other hand, we come to the
conclusion the Agreed Framework, even with its limitations, is
worth retaining, it is critical that we and our allies, Japan
and South Korea, follow through on our obligations under that
agreement.
In our case, that means ensuring the delivery of heavy fuel
oil for electric power generation; and, in the case of the
South Koreans and Japanese, funding the construction of light
water reactors to produce electricity by the year 2003. The
North has already tried to mask its own bad behavior by
charging that our commitment to the agreement is not serious,
because deliveries of fuel oil have been delayed.
And I remember the hearing we had here, where a number of
us underscored that it was vital to our foreign policy to be
able to guarantee that the North could not make that charge,
that it could not even have the privilege of suggesting that
there was any rationale that could be laid on our inactions or
reluctance to fulfill the agreement. And I think that comes
home to roost to some degree now. That is not an excuse, nor
does that pardon them from the accountability that we have to
hold them to for their actions. But we need to avoid this kind
of situation in the future if the Agreed Framework is to be
sustained.
So I think we may be at a critical turning point in our
policy toward North Korea. And I apologize for missing the
openings, but I hope that our witnesses in the course of this
hearing will shed both value and light on the utility of that
framework at this point in time and what other options may be
available to us if we conclude that it is insufficient for
achieving our objectives on the Korean Peninsula.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Senator Thomas. Thank you, sir.
I want to go back in the questioning to the missile and
what your feeling is there, but maybe even more timely, I have
before me here a statement from the spokesman at the State
Department in terms of these talks. It says in the first
paragraphs: Negotiators have obtained commitments from their
North Korean counterparts on a range of major issues. Then, as
you read down, the first one: has agreed to continue serious
discussion. The second one: has agreed to resume missile talks.
The third one: has agreed to Four Party Talks.
The fourth one--well, the point is it sounds like, then,
these agreements which are lauded as being commitments are in
fact decisions to talk further. Now we have been talking since
1953. And so you begin to wonder what does this really mean?
What does this agreement amount to, more talks?
Ambassador Kartman?
Ambassador Kartman. Mr. Chairman, I want to first say that
that thought occurred to me even as I was dealing with the
North Koreans. And I did not want to come home with just an
agreement that there would simply be talks. If we were to
remove the various talks from this agreement, I think what we
would have is a reaffirmation that we are going to live up to
our obligations under the Agreed Framework and they are going
to finish the canning of the spent fuel. And that, in and of
itself, would not be such a bad situation to be in.
Because, going into the talks, they were threatening to
take steps that would have clearly violated the Agreed
Framework by reprocessing spent fuel. So that one problem has
been avoided. On top of that, however, we have indeed won them
back in a serious way at the table so that we can address other
issues.
Now let me cite a few things. The missile talks, we are not
at this point able to guarantee any outcome of the missile
talks. But we all agree, we and our allies in the region, all
agree that the North Korean missile program is dangerous and
destabilizing. What are we going to do about it?
Well, we have got to confront them with this. And we have
got to be at the table with them to do it. I think that simply
denouncing them in the press is not going to change their
missile program. We are going to have to get them to the table
in order to confront them with this. So I do not want to
devalue this step. After all, the missile talks themselves were
something the North Koreans did not wish to return to for the
past 2 years. They would not even come to the table.
Senator Thomas. Well, I do not think anybody would argue
that it is necessary to have talks. And that is a valuable step
forward, particularly with a country like Korea. I guess the
basic question, however, is, after years of this, of talking,
and yet continuing to have what we think are breaches of what
we talked about, do we continue to give them heavy oil? Do we
continue to have light water reactors? Do we continue to send
food? Do you continue to do all these things, and the talks go
on, but the people do not do anything about what you have
talked about in the talks?
Now, is that not the basic bottom line?
Ambassador Kartman. I think that is a very fair question.
At some point we do have to evaluate results against the costs.
I agree with that entirely.
My own view is that the Agreed Framework still has very
clear value to the American people, in that we have frozen
facilities at Yongbyon that would be, by themselves,
extraordinarily dangerous for the entire region. If Yongbyon
were in full operation, the DPRK would have already reprocessed
the 8,000 rods of spent fuel that are there. They would have
reloaded that reactor not once, but several times, and
reprocessed those loads. We would have had tens of weapons'
worth of plutonium in North Korean hands. We do not have that
situation. And so I think that that is something that, for now,
is a good result.
Senator Thomas. I am sure. However, I think even though
obviously this was not a treaty and did not require
congressional approval, at least in there was the notion that
the North Koreans would halt operations in infrastructure of
its nuclear program. Are we assured that has happened? I do not
think so.
Ambassador Kartman. This is the present problem that we
must resolve. I think we have understood quite clearly that the
Agreed Framework is not going to be able to operate while there
are serious concerns about what may be a facility that would be
in violation of the Agreed Framework. This is going to have to
be resolved.
If it is not resolved, I think we will be back here telling
you what the next steps are. However, the first step is to
resolve this.
Dr. Campbell. Mr. Chairman, can I add one point to that, if
I may, please?
Senator Thomas. Sure.
Dr. Campbell. It is an extremely fair question to ask
yourself: What have we bought with this agreement since 1994?
And I think actually to answer that question appropriately, you
have to look not just, as Ambassador Kartman has, in terms of
the actual specifics of the Agreed Framework, but what has
transpired in the region, as well. And I just want to
underscore that very quickly.
First of all, our capabilities on the Korean Peninsula
since 1994 have grown considerably, number one. Second, our
policy coordination now, which is very important, between the
United States and the ROK is probably better than it has been
at any time, in terms of our relationship.
Senator Thomas. Our what?
Dr. Campbell. Our policy coordination, the ability to work
with the Koreans, the South Koreans, is better than it has been
since the Korean War. And our ability to cooperate among the
three nations, the United States, Japan and Korea, about
possible situations in North Korea has grown considerably.
At the same time, since 1994, North Korean economic
performance, North Korean economic capabilities have declined
precipitously. And indeed, we believe that large segments of
their population are going without enough food. And so when you
look at this agreement, on balance, there are other things that
you have to take into consideration in terms of the surrounding
region and the position of the United States, which I would
argue, since 1994, has increased significantly.
Senator Thomas. I guess in my final question--and I am sure
there is no answer--we have an army there, a division or
whatever, 37,000 men and women, we are stronger, our
relationships are better with the ROK, but North Korea
continues to do these things. So, do you all say to yourself,
OK, so you have got your muscles there, you are tougher than
anybody else, but you are not doing anything about it? They are
continuing to sort of thumb their nose at you. How do you
respond to that?
Dr. Campbell. Again, I would depict the benefits associated
with the Agreed Framework in a slightly more subtle way. And I
look at it in terms of our ultimate capabilities, in terms of
what we would do if in fact we faced a situation where the use
of force was imminent or necessary on the Korean Peninsula. We
are in a much better situation today, Mr. Chairman, than we
were 5 years ago. We will be probably, I would argue, in a
better situation as the situation develops on the Korean
Peninsula.
Senator Thomas. With their submarines and missiles and so
on, they apparently are not very concerned that you are going
to use that force.
Dr. Campbell. I think, as we have stated, each time the
North Koreans have undertaken one of these reconnaissance or
insurgent campaigns in South Korea, we have made very clear
that these steps are provocative, they undermine confidence,
they are a threat to South Korea's well-being. We believe that
our ability to cooperate with South Korea on these challenges
has increased as a consequence.
Ultimately, on balance, as you face a choice between
diplomacy and war--and in fact, I think in some respects when
you trace a lot of these policy decisions down to their root,
when you find yourself in that determination, I would, on
balance, suggest to you that where we are today, that the best
course is to continue this diplomatic course of action for the
time being.
Senator Thomas. Senator Kerry.
Senator Kerry. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Help me work through sort of the balance of the options
that we have. In your testimony you suggest, Mr. Kartman--you
do not suggest, let me just read it--you say point blank that
what we seek in our present dealings is to avoid a return to
the circumstances of 1993-1994, when tensions between North
Korea, its neighbors, the United States, and the international
community were dangerously high. We will continue to look for
ways to reduce the tensions.
You then, prior to that, said: We also firmly believe that
the Agreed Framework must continue to be the centerpiece of
U.S. policy toward the DPRK for some time to come. Given the
limitations that I described in the Agreed Framework and the
intentions that Senator Thomas and others have obviously raised
as a concern, what do you have, if you have the Agreed
Framework as the centerpiece of our policy. We are delivering
oil, our allies help build a light reactor, but the North
Koreans do not allow access to the underground construction or
other suspect sites, and the missile program essentially
continues, so that you have both the capacity for a clandestine
development of fissile material and the delivery capacity going
on side by side? How does that balance?
Ambassador Kartman. I would not even try to defend, Senator
Kerry, a clandestine nuclear program in North Korea. What we
must do is satisfy ourselves that whatever their original
intentions may have been with respect to the site in question,
that it is not going to become a nuclear facility.
Senator Kerry. Why then not shift the focus, the
centerpiece of your policy? If the centerpiece of your policy
continues something that is so limited, don't you need a new
centerpiece?
Ambassador Kartman. I think I understand the question. What
I am trying to say is that if there is a clandestine facility
to be and we seek to stop it, that would be consistent with the
Agreed Framework because the Agreed Framework prohibits such
facilities. I am not trying to split hairs with you.
Senator Kerry. No, I understand. I follow you. Then, as you
go through the talk process, when does the talk begin to be
exhausted and the prospect of a heavier hand come in, and what
heavier hand should be played? If you could lay out some
options, I would appreciate it.
Ambassador Kartman. Well, the first principle, as we try to
sort this out--and we are trying to do this with you. This is
not just us sitting in some room somewhere; this is a tough
problem--the first principle is that we have two allies in the
region whose security is directly affected by how we handle it.
And so if we were to take this right up to the brink of war,
first we would have to deal with the impact of that crisis on
their own societies and their economies, and potentially, the
impact of the war on their livelihoods and population.
The ROK especially, which has a capital that is within
striking distance of long-range artillery and SCUD missiles,
would be a potential target of North Korean chemical warheads.
Estimates of casualties are enormous. I do not want to pretend
to be the military expert on this panel, but I think that as we
proceed with our North Korea policy, it should continue to be a
fundamental principle of ours that we do so in tandem with our
allies whose support would be absolutely essential should we
ever get to the point that might involve the use of military
force. The ROK and Japan are both with us completely each step
of the way. That is a principle.
Now, when we start to talk about options, it is fair to say
that they have a somewhat different reaction to the possibility
of the outbreak of war on the Korean Peninsula than we do. They
are, of course, highly supportive of the costly maintenance of
U.S. forces in the region to deter any potential conflict. And,
under the circumstances that are clear and unambiguously a
North Korean aggression, it is very clear that our alliance is
going to be rock solid.
However, in pushing something like this, the question of
nonproliferation or missile proliferation up to the brink, then
it gets more complicated. I am not trying to speak for them
here; I am just saying it is a more complicated problem.
Senator Kerry. Is there any critical time line for
inspection by which we must achieve access, in your judgment?
Ambassador Kartman. There are two different ways of looking
at that. I am not sure that this is the right venue in which to
get into the kinds of intelligence judgments that would be
necessary. However, one way of establishing criticality would
be to estimate when nuclear facilities might actually become
operational.
However, another way--and it is the way that we are
operating under--is at what point would North Korea actually
have potentially violated the Agreed Framework. At which point
we would no longer want to come to you and seek your help in
funding heavy fuel oil.
Senator Kerry. Can you state to us with respect to your
policy priorities where you put the issue of access and
inspection of the suspect sites?
Ambassador Kartman. What I consider to be common sense is
that, first of all, we are going to have to be fully satisfied
with respect to what is going on at that site. Second, since
there is no trust involved here, North Korea cannot simply
assure us that it is innocent. Something more than that will be
required.
Now, we have discussed already and have made it very clear
to them that what we have in mind is access to that site. I am
not going to suggest that they have agreed to unfettered access
at this point. There is a long and complicated negotiation
ahead that will deal with the terms and conditions of providing
that access. After all, the kind of access that would be best
would be a complete right to go where we want to go without
restriction. But that kind of right does not come without
fighting a war first. And even then you do not get to assert
it.
Senator Kerry. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Senator Thomas. Senator Robb.
Senator Robb. Thank you.
That reminds me that we had a hearing here yesterday about
the question of access after fighting a war. And it remains one
of the most contentious issues that we have to deal with. And I
recognize that this is the subject of future negotiation, and
you would not want to put all of your bottom-line cards on the
table, and saying, this is our position and we are not going to
negotiate. But is it fair to assume that the question of access
would be an absolute prerequisite or some other condition of
certifiability, however we get into that particular maze that
we sometimes enter, in terms of going forward at some point?
Again, I will not ask you for the precise timeframe, but
can we assume that without some satisfactory, reliable,
certifiable means of assessing the situation, that this would,
in effect, be regarded as, by itself, a full breach of the
Agreed Framework?
Ambassador Kartman. Senator Robb, I have already made it
plain to the North Koreans that access is going to be a
prerequisite for a solution. And without a solution, then we
are headed toward the question of the existence of the Agreed
Framework.
Senator Robb. What in your judgment would be the
consequences of a breach in the Agreed Framework, acknowledging
at this point that we have an obligation to provide 500 metric
tons of heavy fuel oil and we have only provided I think 152,
if the current math is correct--whatever? In any event, we are
in less than full compliance on our end at this point. And many
would want to negotiate or renegotiate that particular point.
And maybe Ambassador Gallucci will have more to say about that
in a few minutes.
But, in any event, if either side were to be regarded by
the other as being in clear breach or violation of the
agreement, what do you believe the near-term consequences would
be in terms of what kind of changes take place in the dynamics
at the time that acknowledged breach occurs?
Ambassador Kartman. It is probably a dangerous thing to get
myself too far out in the guessing game here.
Senator Robb. A dangerous thing to come even here to
testify, in most cases.
Ambassador Kartman. Indeed. But some of these things are
probably higher probability than others.
Senator Robb. That is what I am asking you to deal with.
Ambassador Kartman. The North Koreans have threatened over
and over again, with increasing stridency and I would say
conviction, that if we do not meet our obligations in
delivering heavy fuel oil, that they would then move on to
conduct some reprocessing.
Now, I believe that they are calculating that some
reprocessing would still not kill off the Agreed Framework. We
have done everything we can to convince them that there is no
such thing in our minds as some reprocessing. It is prohibited
by the Agreed Framework, and it does not say some, a little, a
lot, or anything of the sort.
So, I think that the North Koreans would have to go on to
carry through with their threat. They would take the uncanned
spent fuel rods as a starting point and reprocess those. We
would then react by cutting off heavy fuel oil, et cetera. And
our activities under the Agreed Framework surely would stop.
And then I think that the next thing that they would do in
their search to find new leverage, new pressure points, would
be that they would probably then find other ways to lessen
their own performance in the Agreed Framework.
And one of the things that I think would be an early victim
would be IAEA monitoring of the freeze. So they might not even
actually break the freeze, but they would break our ability to
be sure that things were frozen.
Senator Robb. Well, if I recall, if I may interject for
just a moment, when it was originally negotiated--and, again, I
am attempting to paraphrase, if not quote, Ambassador
Gallucci--it was designed in such a way that each step would be
verifiable and independent and it would not rely on the good
faith or trust of any one involved. And if you are suggesting
that it would simply bring about a cessation in terms of
forward progress rather than a complete collapse of the Agreed
Framework, then I understand your answer.
Ambassador Kartman. No. What I was actually trying to lay
out, and I will try to be quite clear on this, is that my
prediction of the probabilities is that we would have a series
of escalating steps that would result in the complete collapse
of the Agreed Framework and the reopening ultimately of the
facility at Yongbyon, the reloading of the reactor, the
reprocessing of the present spent fuel, and the rapid
continuation of the entire program at Yongbyon. So that there
would be a new stockpile of plutonium at Yongbyon, weapons-
usable plutonium.
Senator Robb. I would like to go back to the question of
alternative sources of weapons-grade or weapons-usable
plutonium for just a minute. But before we depart from the
heavy fuel oil part of the agreement which the United States is
obliged to fulfill, acknowledging that we are short 340,000-
350,000 metric tons at this point, when do you think, given all
that you know about the circumstances including the mood in
Congress, when do you think that will be accomplished and how
do you think it will be paid for?
Ambassador Kartman. We have been working very closely with
the Congress--I believe you are quite aware of the details of
that--to take money that we have set aside in the State
Department budget to finish out the 1998 obligation. It remains
to be seen what the Congress will do with fiscal year 1999 KEDO
expenditures, but we have been in very intense consultations
with the Congress on finishing out 1998. And I think that is my
immediate target.
Senator Robb. So, in other words, you believe at this point
you have both the resources and the authority to fulfill the
current year's requirement for delivery of heavy fuel oil?
Ambassador Kartman. Yes. We have set aside this money. We
have been engaged in these consultations. The President and the
Secretary have the necessary authorities. And we are working
very closely with the Congress to carry this out.
Senator Robb. Thank you.
My time has expired. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Senator Thomas. Thank you.
Notwithstanding, the Secretary of State told the Congress
it would never be more than $30 million a year?
Ambassador Kartman. I believe that then-Secretary Warren
Christopher's words were that he expected that it would be in
that range. However, Mr. Chairman, I think this is a fair point
to raise, and I would like to just note that the range of costs
for heavy fuel oil have not varied too much. There has been a
little bit of growth in the annual costs of heavy fuel oil for
reasons of the market.
Senator Thomas. Fuel oil prices are about at the lowest
they have been in history.
Ambassador Kartman. But we have not had access to the
lowest possible rates.
But that notwithstanding, the price of HFO, heavy fuel oil,
has not really been affected terribly much. However, where we
have fallen short is that the support of other countries for
this effort has not met Secretary Christopher's expectations
that he was relaying to the Congress when he first testified on
this subject.
We thought that we would be funding roughly one-half of the
total fuel oil bill. It looks instead as though we will end up
funding roughly two-thirds of that total fuel bill.
Senator Thomas. The most difficult one may be Japan's
reluctance now to put the $3 billion or $4 billion that they
were committed to. They have indicated that a second launch
would be totally unacceptable. What does that mean?
Ambassador Kartman. Well, of course I will have to let the
Government of Japan to speak for itself.
Senator Thomas. I suspect you have inquired, however, have
you not?
Ambassador Kartman. We have been in very close touch with
them all through the weekend and last week. In fact, Secretary
Albright has spoken with their Foreign Minister on two
occasions in that period on the telephone, and will be seeing
him again very shortly.
They have reaffirmed to us that their obligation to the
Agreed Framework and to KEDO, which is about $1 billion, is
still quite firm. What has occurred and what we completely
understand and completely respect is that they have an
appropriation process just like ours; that at the very moment
of a missile test, this is not the time to go to their
parliament, the Diet, and seek this $1 billion. And so we defer
to them in their judgment about what is the right political
timing and the right circumstances in which to do that. But
they have reaffirmed to us that their commitment is still
absolutely firm.
Senator Thomas. It seems to me that overall in this
discussion about the framework and so on is the real question
of whether or not the framework is an overall policy with
respect to North Korea or whether it is sort of peripheral
thing having to do with energy and having to do with replacing
the light water reactor, something they were generating
otherwise. But is it considered to be in Defense, is it
considered to be in the State Department, is this our policy?
Or is this a segment dealing with one portion?
For instance, this one certainly has not completed. Part of
it was to open up all kinds of trade agreements and reduce
trade barriers and have all kinds of credit cards being used.
None of that has happened as far as I know.
I guess my basic question is, is the framework agreement
our basic policy or is that a policy here when there is a need
for a broader policy for the whole operation?
Ambassador Kartman. Mr. Chairman, I believe, and I know
that Secretary Albright believes, that the framework agreement
is not the sum total of what we want to achieve. It is a
necessary starting point. Without getting some handle on their
production of fissile material, we could go nowhere. And so the
Agreed Framework provides us with the platform on which to
proceed down some other paths. Unfortunately, despite having
opened up several doors to the North Koreans, they have not yet
walked through. We are as disturbed by that as you are. But, we
believe that when dealing with North Korea and in recognition
of our allies' equities, which are so substantial, that both
firmness and patience are called for.
Senator Thomas. Dr. Campbell, when this missile went off a
few days ago, at least in the press the State Department was
surprised. The Defense Department said they were not; they knew
it was going to happen. I do not understand that.
Dr. Campbell. I frankly am not aware of a statement from
the State Department saying that they were surprised.
Senator Thomas. The Secretary of State was quoted as saying
that. Now I guess that does not mean she said it necessarily.
Dr. Campbell. Well, let me say that I do not want to parse
the words of the Secretary of State. I think what she might
have meant--and I would leave this to Ambassador Kartman--is
that she is surprised by the fact that North Korea would do
this thing. However, I am not so sure--and I think as you were
briefed, as well, Mr. Chairman--we followed the preparations of
that event about as closely----
Senator Thomas. We were not surprised at a staged missile?
Dr. Campbell. Absolutely not. Yes, I mean I can tell you,
and I think as you know, we every day looked at pictures of
this launching site. I do not want to reveal--in another
setting we can go into it.
Senator Thomas. Have you ever found the satellite?
Dr. Campbell. Let me just say that the intelligence
community is meeting as we speak, actually to prepare a
briefing for your committee tomorrow, about what we think we
know about the event. And what you reported at the start of
this hearing about NASA's finding some small body in space, we
do not have that information yet. In fact, what we have is an
assessment from our intelligence community that the event is
still under very close scrutiny.
What we do know--and this is what is important--is that
this is a sophisticated, multistage, medium-range ballistic
missile. It is quite sophisticated. It can carry a payload. And
it has very real security implications for the region.
Now, whether it is a satellite or whether it was a missile
test is an additional question. But what we know so far is
enough for us to be very concerned.
Senator Thomas. You did not hear the song on the airwaves?
Dr. Campbell. I have not. My radio in the car does not pick
up the patriotic hymns that are apparently being beamed from
the--I think it is 47 megahertz.
Senator Thomas. We are going to have to get you a high-tech
radio.
Dr. Campbell. Yes, that is correct. [Laughter.]
Ambassador Kartman. Mr. Chairman, may I make one addition?
I was in regular and frequent contact with Secretary
Albright while I was negotiating with the North Koreans, even
though she was traveling at the time. And I am afraid that this
is somewhat my fault, because I had reported that we had--being
aware that there were some preparations for a test going on, we
had warned the North Korean side not to do this. We had raised
it very strongly with them. The North Korean side, the
negotiators, indicated that they had heard our message and had
sent back something and had understood themselves that their
message had had some impact. That proved to be incorrect. But
they had indeed misled us into thinking that they had heard our
concerns and reacted to them.
Needless to say, when we heard about the missile test, we
stalked in there outraged, condemned it, and there were some
immediate consequences.
Senator Thomas. So you may have been surprised that they
did it, but you were not surprised that they had the capacity
to do it?
Ambassador Kartman. Exactly.
Dr. Campbell. Mr. Chairman, can I also make one other
point? And I just beg a quick indulgence here.
When you ask about whether about whether the Agreed
Framework is the centerpiece of all we are doing in North
Korea, that really is not the case. We are involved--if you
recall, last year, you had a very important hearing in which
you asked: Are there security implications for the profound
economic and humanitarian crises that we are facing in North
Korea? And of course the answer to that is a very firm
possibly.
And so one of the things that we are doing--our traditional
challenge from North Korea is deterrence, all right, of a kind
that, you know, we worry about millions of people rolling over
the DMZ, the kinds of threats Ambassador Kartman is talking
about, chemical weapons, SCUD's, and long-range artillery. But
let us also recognize that we face other potential kinds of
challenges, security challenges--a humanitarian crisis,
instability.
So, simultaneously, while we are working obviously this
very open and very public diplomatic line, we are also involved
in a wide variety of policy efforts not just with North Korea
but with China, with Japan and with Korea, which we believe
ultimately and fundamentally improves our situation in the
Asia-Pacific region.
Senator Thomas. Thank you.
Senator Robb.
Senator Robb. Very briefly, on the question of the
alignment between ourselves, the ROK, and Japan on the Agreed
Framework, and our discussions, the Four Party Talks, that have
at various times been regarded as possible avenues to more
progress, could you characterize where those things stand
generally? I am not sure that the message that I received from
representatives of those governments in Washington and/or
foreign ministers and others--and we will have an opportunity
to get a direct message here in about an hour and a half from
one of those representatives--but I am not sure that I am as
sanguine about the complete uniformity of current thinking as I
would like to be.
Ambassador Kartman. Well, what I can say is that we are in
awfully close touch with both of those governments. It is
pretty clear that the missile test in particular has jarred
regional capitals, and they are now taking a look at what this
means for their own security. And that is an important
dimension that we take very seriously also.
Senator Robb. But even before the missile test--and I
assume that there was an exchange, so that they were not
unaware of the fact that such a test might take place, and I
will just leave it at that in this forum--I detected some
hesitancy about the firmness of the commitment to the billion
dollars of the Agreed Framework from time to time and/or some
hesitancy at least based on lack of additional guarantees and
participation in terms of wherewithal by the United States.
Would you comment on that?
Ambassador Kartman. Well, I think you will find plenty of
doubts in Seoul and Tokyo about the wisdom of spending these
large sums of money to build reactors in North Korea. They have
exactly the same debates that we have. And so I do not want to
suggest that there is a uniform point of view in those
countries. It is a very healthy debate.
That said, the governments are completely committed to the
provision of these large sums of money to this project. Now,
those sums are from the ROK, 70 percent of the cost of building
the light water reactors, and from Japan it is $1 billion. They
do have to go through an appropriations process in both
countries. They are both democracies. And we are going to hear
elements of this debate played out as they process. But in my
own mind I do not have doubts about the firmness of their
commitments to this agreement.
Senator Robb. What has been the impact of the ceremonies
that took place in Pyongyang yesterday or the day before--I
have forgotten now in terms of the passage of time--as well as
the most recent submarine incident, et cetera? Have those
events or even the fact that Kim Jong-il did not assume the
title that his father, the Great Leader, had had--do any of
those things, for those who like to engage in over-analysis or
psycho-babble, does that have any relevance that you would want
to comment on publicly?
Ambassador Kartman. Well, these are issues that are
followed much more closely in South Korea, of course. There is
a great body of expertise there. And their Foreign Minister
happens to be in town, and we are getting the benefit of some
of their thinking right now while he is here.
A couple of points, although this is very early and so this
is quite preliminary as an analysis. However, I think you would
probably find in my own remarks at one time or another, I
predicted that Kim Jong-il was going to take the title of
President. So, confounding me and other Americans, he has done
something different. He has become the Chairman of something
called the National Defense Commission.
And as we look at the lineup of the current leadership in
North Korea, there is a disturbingly military cast to it. In
fact, I think that the South Korea Foreign Minister would tell
you that they see this as a growing dominance by the military
over North Korean decisionmaking, notwithstanding the fact that
there is only one source of real decisions there, and that is
Kim Jong-il. So I do not take this as a very encouraging sign
at all.
Senator Robb. Could I just ask one more question?
Do we have any expectation that there will be an official
exchange between a representative of the U.S. Government and
Kim Jong-il at any time in the near term, or that he will
appear outside of a heavily secured military installation to
deliver any message to the North Korean people?
Ambassador Kartman. He has not been a maker of speeches in
the past. And of course he has had 30 years of public life as a
senior personage, and now leader. He tends to deliver short
exhortations, but not speeches. He has not been someone who has
been a very person-to-person sort of leader, but rather a
symbolic figure almost.
So, no, there is no sign that he is going to change his
style at this late point. Nor are there any indications of his
intentions to travel outside the country. He does travel within
the country. And that travel does include some non-military
facilities, although those visits are fewer in number than his
visits to military facilities.
And we have no expectation of having any American official
meet with him, although it has been tried on various occasions.
Senator Robb. Dr. Campbell?
Dr. Campbell. Senator Robb, everything that Ambassador
Kartman says about these developments this week we would agree
with. It looks as if they have retired the jersey of the Office
of the President, and he will assume the----
Senator Robb. It has been bronzed.
Dr. Campbell. Yes. He has assumed these new
responsibilities of this group that we know actually quite
little about.
The other thing, however, that is important to underscore
is that not only does it appear that Kim Jong-il relies
increasingly on the military for his advice and for sort of
decisionmaking authority, not just perhaps on foreign policy,
but domestic policy--we know that the military is more involved
in picking crops and other aspects of making what is still
working in North Korea work--but it is also true that over the
last 3 years he has managed to replace all those--or most of
those older generals and marshalls that were put there by his
father. And so all these guys that are now in senior positions
of authority, at least on paper, owe their patronage to him.
And so I just want to underscore that of all the
developments that we have seen, all right, in the last week and
a half to 2 weeks, the ones that we are most concerned about
publicly and the ones that we are talking about, this uncertain
facility that we want to explore, the missile tests, I will
tell you that privately the one that I am perhaps most worried
about is a potential change in the way that decisions are taken
in North Korea that highlights military perspectives more than
others.
Senator Robb. So the one silver lining is there is expected
stability at this point, if not progress. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Senator Thomas. Thank you, gentlemen. I appreciate it very
much. I appreciate your coming.
Ambassador Gallucci, if you will, sir.
You can go right ahead whenever you are ready. I am
impressed with your Western footwear. [Laughter.]
STATEMENT OF ROBERT GALLUCCI, DEAN, SCHOOL OF FOREIGN SERVICE,
GEORGETOWN UNIVERSITY, WASHINGTON, D.C.
Ambassador Gallucci. Mr. Chairman, the weather has changed
and I thought I would reflect that.
Mr. Chairman, thank you once again for giving me this
opportunity to come before the subcommittee.
I will try to be brief in comments so we can have some
discussion. I think I want to make three sets of points. One, I
would say again what the purposes for the Agreed Framework were
when we negotiated them; two, something about what the
performance has been with respect to those purposes; and,
three, my own thoughts on where we go from here.
First, with respect to the purposes of the Agreed
Framework, I recollect that we had three, one primary and 2
secondary. The primary purpose of the Agreed Framework was to
stop the nuclear weapons program in North Korea. That meant,
first, making sure that the spent fuel that contained 30
kilograms of plutonium was not reprocessed; it was recanned and
stored until it could be shipped out of the country; that the
research reactor was not started up again; that the two
production reactors, the 50-megawatt and the 200-megawatt
reactors, were not completed; and that the reprocessing plant
was shut down.
In other words, so that they did not proceed with the
program that we estimated, within 3 to 5 years, about now,
would be producing on the order of 150 kilograms of plutonium a
year, enough for maybe 30 nuclear weapons. That is what we
wanted to stop. That was the primary purpose of the Agreed
Framework.
The secondary purposes I think were, first, to promote a
dialog between North and South. And that turned out to be
manifest in our initiative with the ROK, the Four Party Talks,
essentially to reduce tensions on the Peninsula and improve
generally the security situation in Northeast Asia. And there
is language in the Agreed Framework about that.
The second secondary purpose was to address--and this is
language from the Agreed Framework by my recollection--other
issues of concern. These other issues are not mentioned in the
Agreed Framework, but we told the North Koreans what they were.
First, their ballistic missile program. Second, their ballistic
missile export program.
Third, the forward deployment of their conventional forces.
And also return of remains from the Korean War. And we had some
other concerns. But these were not mentioned in the Agreed
Framework. There was a linkage between these other issues of
concern and improvement of relations between the DPRK and the
USA. The normalization of relations was linked to their
willingness to address these other issues. Those were the
purposes; now for the performance.
With respect to the nuclear weapons program, it seems to
me, from what I know, that the nuclear weapons program that we
were aware of has essentially been in arrest, as we have said,
cryogenic arrest. It is frozen. And it is frozen under
inspection, parts by the United States, because we have been
active in the canning of the spent fuel, and by the IAEA. The
ultimate dismantlement of that program would take place over
time as the elements of the Agreed Framework were played out.
Two issues have arisen with respect to the primary purpose.
The first had to do with the few fuel elements that the North
Koreans threatened to reprocess. Materially, in terms of
plutonium, not particularly significant, but in principle very
important. That, I now understand from what has been said by
Ambassador Kartman, is going to be addressed. The North Koreans
will permit the final recanning of these elements.
The other issue that has arisen has to do with the other
site, the cavern, the underground site. With respect to that--
and this is maybe the most important point--I recall when I
came before you, Mr. Chairman, some years ago first presenting
this, I was asked before this subcommittee and elsewhere in the
Congress whether I could guarantee that there were not other
facilities in North Korea. And I said, of course not; that I
had had the opportunity to lead inspections in Iraq for UNSCOM
and we had uncovered about 90 percent of the nuclear weapons
program that we did not know about through all our intelligence
assets--that was one data point.
A second was that we knew of one country on earth that was
particularly good at digging holes and tunnels, and that was
North Korea. And if we put those two data points together, one
should not be in a position of saying, I guarantee there will
be no secret facilities. What we can say is the ones we know
about, we will be able to verify with respect to the provisions
of the Agreed Framework. But we will have to be vigilant.
OK, we have been vigilant and we have found something
apparently. My own view is that if North Korea has a secret
nuclear program, it would clearly not be consistent either with
the letter, or with the spirit, of the Agreed Framework--there
is a confidential minute, which you have access to, Mr.
Chairman, and that I think would speak to this. Moreover, it
would certainly not be consistent with the Nonproliferation
Treaty, and they are still adherents to that Treaty. If there
is such a nuclear facility and they are pursuing a secret
nuclear weapons program, it would remove the incentive of the
United States, South Korea and Japan to participate in the
Agreed Framework.
Let me be as clear as I can. It would seem to me that if
there was a secret nuclear weapons program, either that program
would end, the issue would be resolved, or the Agreed Framework
becomes or should become a dead letter.
With respect to the other two issues, the North-South
dialog, we have had some Four Party Talks. We have had some
contacts between North and South, but they have not resulted in
the kind of reduction in tensions that we had hoped for--even
with the Republic of Korea adopting its sunshine policy.
With respect to other issues of concern, the performance
has been even worse. I refer first to the ballistic missile
test. And I do not only mean the recent test of a multistage
missile, a portion of which overflew the main island of Japan,
but I mean the ballistic missile test in South Asia by Pakistan
and the ballistic missile test in the Middle East by Iran,
neither of which would have been possible without the
assistance of North Korea. So this has been perfectly dreadful
in terms of performance.
The issue, then, at this point is what should we do. It
seems to me that we should go back to the purposes again and
then look at alternatives--the purposes of the Agreed
Framework. If the Agreed Framework is serving to prevent a
nuclear weapons program in North Korea, it ought to be
preserved. If it is not, it should not be. And that issue needs
to be resolved.
Second, with respect to the ballistic missile program and
the Four Party Talks, it seems to me that we have laid a
groundwork for addressing these issues, we have had some talks
with respect to ballistic missiles, and we ought to continue
with diplomacy and negotiations, and we should continue to link
their performance or lack of performance with what we do with
respect to normalizing our relations with North Korea.
As I say this, I also note that it is irksome, it is
irritating in the extreme, and it is certainly politically
difficult to deliver heavy fuel oil on schedule, even to
provide humanitarian assistance, while the North Koreans are
providing ballistic missiles to countries in other regions and
destabilizing them. But I would suggest that if we give in to
the perfectly natural political urge not to speak to North
Korea and not to continue with the Agreed Framework, if we try
to link North Korean performance to ballistic missile
performance or to other non-nuclear issues--in other words, if
we try to unilaterally change the understanding of the Agreed
Framework--we could lose the framework.
And then the question is, what do we have to replace it
with? What are the policy alternatives?
It seems to me that they are quite familiar. There are
three. We can accept a nuclear weapons program, combined with
extended-range ballistic missiles in North Korea. Or we could
attempt to influence the North Koreans through international
sanctions. Or we could attempt to interdict those programs
through military action.
Accepting that capability in North Korea, it seems to me--
and I believe it has been said by this administration--would be
unacceptable--unacceptable to have a nuclear weapons program in
North Korea. Second, I do not believe that anybody who has
looked at it has thought that U.N. sanctions would be effective
in stopping these programs. And, third, I do not think we
should contemplate military intervention unless we are prepared
to engage in a major conflict on the Korean Peninsula.
In short, it seems to me that the administration is on the
right course. It is a rough and rocky road. But it is the right
road. And I do not see any smooth paths to get to where we need
to go.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Senator Thomas. Thank you, sir.
I guess I do not quite understand what you would suggest
the administration policy is.
Ambassador Gallucci. Mr. Chairman, you do not understand
what I believe the administration policy is?
Senator Thomas. Well, you said you think they are on the
right path. And I am saying, where is the path leading? We have
this agreement, the framework agreement. Beyond that, what are
we doing? Are we going to bargain with food aid? Are we going
to just continue to have our forces there to stand them off? I
do not understand why you think that we are on the right path?
Ambassador Gallucci. I think we are on the right path, Mr.
Chairman, because I understand that the administration intends
that the primary purpose of the Agreed Framework, stopping the
nuclear weapons program, is continuing to be the measure of
whether the framework should be supported. In other words,
either the issue of the cavern is going to be resolved, or the
underground site or whatever it may be, or if it is not, then
we are going to move off to another policy. I think that is
correct.
Senator Thomas. But this was my question to the others and
now I guess I should say it to you, is the framework a policy?
And the answer was no, it is a partial policy. We have a
framework policy, but we are not sure, for example, what has
happened to the existing rods. Maybe they will be canned. What
happens to them? We are not certain as to what has happened to
the dismantling of reactors and so on. We have not had a
reduction of barriers to trade as was suggested when we set up
this framework. We have the fifth largest military in the
world, the largest per capita military. We have moved more
military weapons up to the DMZ.
Now, is the framework agreement dealing with all of those
things?
Ambassador Gallucci. Absolutely not, Mr. Chairman.
Senator Thomas. Then what is?
Ambassador Gallucci. Mr. Chairman, the policy of the
administration before and now, as I understand it, was to
negotiate an Agreed Framework to deal principally with one
concern. And hopefully, that being an element in a strategy to
deal with the threat from North Korea, it would put us in a
position to deal politically with other issues. We wanted to
promote dialog between North and South.
Senator Thomas. Right.
Ambassador Gallucci. We wanted to get confidence in
security-building measures to deal with the conventional
imbalance of forces, the forward deployment. We were concerned
about the ballistic missile program when I was negotiating the
Agreed Framework. We prioritized these. We drew a line of what
we absolutely needed to get and what we would do in order to
get that. We made that call.
And the gentlemen that preceded me said what I believe to
be true then and now: the Agreed Framework is not a strategy;
it is an element in a strategy.
Senator Thomas. Exactly.
Ambassador Gallucci. And I believe it fits. I believe it
addresses the nuclear issue. And to the extent we demonstrated
it fails to, then it is not a useful element any longer.
And what I understood them to be saying was that we are
going to insist that the North Koreans resolve that question.
The elements of the spent fuel that were not reprocessed, the
North Koreans have already said they will take care of. I know
of no problem with the freezing of the facilities. I have
understood from compliance checked by the IAEA that that has
been all on track. So with respect to the primary purpose, we
have identified where the problems are and the standards are.
Senator Thomas. But let me interrupt. You and I have
already agreed, as have the others, that that is only part of
the question.
Ambassador Gallucci. Absolutely.
Senator Thomas. And we are faced with the rest of it.
Ambassador Gallucci. Absolutely.
Senator Thomas. We are absent a policy is what I am saying
to you.
Ambassador Gallucci. Mr. Chairman, that is the part where I
guess we are diverging.
Senator Thomas. OK.
Ambassador Gallucci. It seems to me if you start with the
nuclear issue and the Agreed Framework and then say, OK, we
have other concerns with North Korea--we do not like their
ballistic missile development program, even if they were not
exporting it, because it threatens not only South Korea but
Japan and Northeast Asia--but we especially do not like it
because they are exporting NO DONG's, the version prior to the
TAEPO DONG which they just tested, to South Asia and to the
Middle East. So we have grave concerns about this.
The question is, how do you address this? Well, you address
this through diplomacy--the only way I know of--apart from some
other actions, and I already mentioned them, which I do not
think are particularly prudent at this point. And that is to
get the North Koreans into a negotiation in which they might be
willing to give up this program.
I know of no other strategy. What the Agreed Framework does
is deal with one issue and give you a political framework, or
begin to give you a political framework, to help you engage
them on that issue. But it does not address it by itself.
Senator Thomas. Well, that is very useful conversation. But
the fact is, for those of us that watched this happen, we have
had these talks, we have had these negotiations, we have had
promises, we have had signed agreements, and yet these other
things--proliferation of nuclear weapons, missiles--continues
to go on. So what do you do, just say, well, we want to
continue to talk?
Ambassador Gallucci. Mr. Chairman, I must be missing
something here, because it seems to me, as I look around the
world, the United States does not always get its way. It does
not get its way in South Asia, where both countries tested
nuclear weapons recently. It does not get its way in Iraq,
where we fought and won a war. That just does not happen that
simply.
The only way I know of is you start a negotiation, you make
a decision whether the use of force is going to be one of your
options or not. And that is based on a whole lot of
calculations.
Senator Thomas. But a wait a minute. Use of force is not
the only option. We continue to do lots of other things, as
well.
Ambassador Gallucci. Indeed.
Senator Thomas. As if they were complying with everything
that we asked them to do. And they are not. And it is hard for
me to understand that.
Senator Robb.
Senator Robb. Well, just to continue that question and
maybe bring it to a close. I assume that you take the position
that as long as we continue to achieve our objective or meet
the purposes of the Agreed Framework agreement, that we ought
to continue to consider that largely in isolation from the
other matters, particularly with respect to proliferation of
ballistic missiles, where we have had arguably no success
whatever.
And maybe that is a little harsh, but at least the progress
has been more difficult to document or measure in most of those
other areas. But you are saying--and I am really not arguing
with you at this point, because I think you can make the case
that simply achieving one identifiable, discrete objective
purpose and continuing to hold that in check, even though all
the rest of the negotiations or lack of negotiations or success
is important, in and of itself, and we ought not to give up on
the one area that we have had success to date simply because we
are not making progress in other areas that are also vitally
important to us. Is that a fair summation?
Ambassador Gallucci. Almost.
Senator Robb. OK. It is now your opportunity to----
Senator Thomas. Now, I would not want you to agree with him
entirely. [Laughter.]
Ambassador Gallucci. Senator, I think that a decision needs
to be made, or a calculation needs to be made, continually
about whether the game is worth the candle.
Senator Robb. Well, that is really what I was asking.
Ambassador Gallucci. And what I am trying to say is that up
to now, for me at least, it seems the answer to that was yes.
But the North Koreans have done some pretty provocative things
of late.
I have special responsibility for the U.S. Government for
the Russia-Iran relationship with respect to ballistic missiles
and nuclear weapons. And the North Korean-Iranian connection on
ballistic missiles is particularly troubling. And I do not need
to explain here about the implication of ballistic missiles
being introduced into Pakistan for the Pakistan-Indian
relationship, particularly recently.
So this makes it a circumstance in which one wants to look
very carefully if we are still in a position where we see that
it is worthwhile to freeze the nuclear issue even though
something so critically important is not going where we would
like it to go.
I would also add that politically to be in a negotiation in
New York, and while that negotiation is proceeding, to have the
missile test was--and I say this as a Dean from Georgetown--was
felt like a finger in the eye at that moment. While,
incidentally, we are considering humanitarian assistance, too.
If that missile test had been over Florida or Long Island, we
could get a little bit of the feeling of how Japan must feel at
a time like this.
So I do not believe that any of this is easy. But what I
was trying to say in my remarks was that this requires real
political maturity to sit and look hard at this and say, OK,
this is a very hard thing to take, but let us look at what the
alternatives are, and are they better?
If we take a step and we say we are going to recondition
our participation in the Agreed Framework so that we link
ballistic missile tests or ballistic missile deliveries to our
performance under the Agreed Framework, we are trying to add
more on to it than I negotiated. OK, if we lose the agreement,
are we better off?
What happens, then, if the nuclear program that we know
about starts up again? How else will we deal with it?
All I am saying is it is very hard to do, to make that
calculation.
Senator Robb. You mentioned the word ``alternatives,'' and
I suggested earlier on I wanted to address the question of
produced at home as opposed to imported plutonium, weapons
grade, whatever the case may be. I realize that we get very
quickly into areas that we should not get too specific, but in
terms of just the large policy tradeoffs that are involved, do
you think that the worth of the current freeze in terms of
denying the ability to provide home-produced enriched fissile
material or whatever is important enough to exclude an
alternative sourcing as a--I am not quite sure how to ask the
question without getting into an area that I do not think we
want to go--at least not in this venue.
Ambassador Gallucci. I think I could say something to it
which would not get us into trouble.
Senator Robb. OK, please.
Ambassador Gallucci. All of us who deal with the
international security situation now are concerned about the
availability of fissile material, particularly plutonium, from
the former Soviet Union--particularly.
Senator Robb. That is obviously what I am thinking of.
Ambassador Gallucci. And under those circumstances, one
asks the question of whether it is still worthwhile to make
indigenous, home-grown fissle material, the centerpiece of a
policy. And I would note that we estimated that the Iraqis
spent someplace between $8 billion and $10 billion for those
facilities that would produce only a relatively small amount of
highly enriched uranium.
I believe that while one cannot exclude and one needs to
worry a great deal about a black market in fissile material,
that we have not reached a point yet--thank God--that that is a
reality. Or, to put the implications of that more clearly, that
it is still worth a great deal to focus on facilities to
produce fissile material, whether we are talking about Iraq,
Iran, Libya, or North Korea. I really do think that is true.
Senator Robb. I think that is a good place to leave it.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Senator Thomas. Yes, you are welcome.
Thank you, Ambassador. I know you need to leave. It is
interesting, though, the amount of stress and strain that goes
on. Here is a country the size of Mississippi, with 20 million
people, surrounded by China, South Korea, Russia, all pretty
much combined in their efforts to do something. On the other
hand, you have Iraq and you have Libya, little countries that
seem to--and we have based 37,000 armed services people there,
plus we just shipped some more stuff over there, and you wonder
sometimes if that is where we ought to be focusing as much
attention as we do.
And you mentioned Iraq. It seems to me the same thing is
true with Iraq. And you are something of an expert. We have
just been going through this idea that we were going to--the
agreement was that we would have inspections. But when they say
no, you cannot do that, then what do we do? We just kind of
back away from it. How long do you do that?
Ambassador Gallucci. The question I think, Mr. Chairman, is
making the calculation, again, about whether it is in our
interest to take the steps to enforce an agreement.
Senator Thomas. Exactly. And thank you very much for your
contribution.
Ambassador Gallucci. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Senator Thomas. We appreciate it.
Ambassador Gallucci. Thank you, Senator.
Senator Thomas. The committee will stand adjourned.
[Whereupon, at 3:35 p.m., the subcommittee was adjourned.]
A P P E N D I X
----------
Additional Questions for the Record by the Committee to Ambassador
Kartman Submitted
Questions Submitted by Chairman Helms
Question. Can you please tell the Committee at what point the
administration became aware of the existence of the underground
complex? At what point did we become aware of the activity at the
complex, which, according to recent press reports, involves as many as
15,000 people?
Answer. North Korea's practice of tunneling and building
underground facilities for military programs is well known. The
intelligence community tracks activities of concern in North Korea on
an ongoing basis, but underground construction can be hard to detect
and even harder to monitor, especially in such a closed society as
North Korea. Although we have been monitoring the construction in
question for some time, we did not develop our conclusions about its
possible functions until recently. The intelligence community
immediately presented its findings to senior Administration officials
that the North was building a facility underground that raised concerns
related to North Korea's commitments under the Agreed Framework. Copies
of that finding have been shared with Congress.
I would be happy to provide a more detailed response to this
question on a classified basis.
Question. When did we let the North Koreans know we knew about the
underground complex? What was their reaction and explanation?
Answer. We informed the North Koreans of our suspicions on August
21, the first day of our bilateral negotiations in New York. The North
Koreans told us that it was a civilian site. We made clear to them that
we had serious concerns about the nature of the site and told them in
no uncertain terms that verbal assurances would not suffice and that
access to the underground construction would be necessary to satisfy
our concerns.
Question. Does the Administration have an official view as to
whether the existence of the underground complex, or the activity
there, constitutes a violation of the Agreed Framework?
Answer. While we have not concluded that there has been a violation
of the Agreed Framework, the U.S. nonetheless has serious concerns
about the suspect underground construction which must be resolved. This
was a major focus of our recent discussions with the North Koreans in
New York. We have made it crystal clear to the North Koreans that they
must live up to their obligations under the Agreed Framework.
As a result of the talks in New York, North Korea agreed to hold
further serious discussions to clarify the nature of the suspect
underground construction. We have told the North Koreans that any such
clarification cannot be limited to verbal assurances, but will have to
include access. Arrangements for these discussions are being made with
the North Koreans through the New York channel.
Question. Regardless of whether it violates the Framework, does the
administration agree that work at a secret underground nuclear complex
by North Korea is a matter of grave national security concern to the
United States?
Answer. North Korea's intentions with respect to the suspect
underground construction are a matter of serious national security
concern. Our suspicions about this construction must be resolved, and
we have told the North Koreans that access to the site is essential to
doing so.
Question. Doesn't the fact that the North Koreans were engaged in
this activity with the Agreed Framework in place call into question
their trustworthiness?
Answer. Verification, not trust of North Korean intentions, is the
basis of our policy. For this reason, the Agreed Framework is
structured as a series of interlocking reciprocal agreements. For
instance, they must maintain a freeze on all nuclear activities at
Yongbyon to maintain the flow of our HFO deliveries.
Regarding the light-water reactors, before key nuclear components
can be installed in the first reactor structure, the DPRK must
cooperate with the IAEA to verify its initial declaration of nuclear
material and implement full-scope safeguards, including challenge
inspections anywhere in the country, as required. If this verification
is not made, the DPRK will not receive the key reactor components,
without which the reactor cannot function.
Question. And by extension, doesn't this fact call into question
the fundamental viability of the Framework, since it is based in part
on trust (i.e., the Framework Agreement doesn't necessarily cover any
and all nuclear activity in North Korea and it has not yet led to IAEA
special inspections of North Korea's suspected waste sites, and won't
for at least another year)?
Answer. The Agreed Framework is not based on trust, but on
reciprocal actions. Under the Agreed Framework, North Korea is
committed to shutting down its nuclear activities at the graphite-
moderated reactors and related facilities at Yongbyon. Upon completion
of the first LWR project, North Korea's graphite-moderated reactors
will be dismantled. Upon completion of the LWR project, all of North
Korea's spent fuel will be disposed of in a safe manner that does not
involve reprocessing in the DPRK. When the LWR project is nearly
complete, but before delivery of key nuclear components, the DPRK must
come into full compliance with its safeguards agreement with the IAEA,
which includes satisfying IAEA concerns about Yongbyon and other sites.
In short, the Agreed Framework is designed as a step-by-step
arrangement that can be stopped, if necessary, by either side at any
time. It also provides a means to raise issues of key concern, and
specifies that improvement in bilateral relations will depend on
progress on such issues. The U.S. has major concerns about suspect
underground construction in North Korea. These concerns must be
resolved to our satisfaction. We have made it clear to the North
Koreans that any clarification must go beyond verbal assurances and
will have to include access. We have also told them that failure to
resolve our concerns about the suspect construction would call into
question the viability of the Agreed Framework.
Question. Since the beginning, the issue of the cost of follow-on
items for the Light-Water Reactors in North Korea has been somewhat
cloudy. Do we now have a firm estimate of the cost, and are we any
closer to an agreement as to who will pay for items such as supplying
the fuel for the reactors, storing and removing fuel, training of
personnel and upgrading North Korea's power grid?
Answer. While the final step of the burden sharing agreement among
KEDO Executive Board members (the U.S., Republic of Korea, Japan, and
the European Union) has not been formalized, they have agreed on a cost
estimate of $4.6 billion for construction of the two proliferation-
resistant, light-water reactors. The Republic of Korea is committed to
paying 70% of the total cost, with Japan pledging to provide the yen
equivalent of $1 billion. Fuel for the first of the light-water
reactors will be included in the cost of the LWR project, as will the
cost of providing a comprehensive training program in accordance with
standard nuclear industry practice for the DPRK's operation and
maintenance of the LWR plant. The cost of storing and removing spent
fuel, and of upgrading North Korea's power grid, will be borne by the
DPRK.
Question. According to a New York Times article dated September 10,
we apparently have reached a new deal with North Korea that promises
them more food aid. Is this correct?
Answer. Although the North Koreans raised the issue of additional
food assistance at our recent New York talks, as they do each time we
meet, our recent decision to provide additional food assistance was in
response to the World Food Program's ongoing appeal, and was made, as
all such decisions are made, on a purely humanitarian basis. We have
repeatedly told the North Koreans that we will not link our food aid to
political conditions. Nonetheless, the North Koreans continue to seek
to draw such linkages. We have briefed these food aid decisions to the
staff of re1evant committees, including the SFRC.
Question. If the answer to the previous question is yes, what is
the sequence of events under the agreement? Will the aid precede any of
The commitments by North Korea, such as giving us eventual access to
the underground site? When do we expect to be granted access to the
site by the North Koreans? How can we be assured that the North Koreans
won't sanitize the site before we access it?
Answer. We expect to make the shipments of additional humanitarian
food assistance announced on September 21 in several tranches over the
course of the remainder of the year.
We are currently making arrangements to resume discussions with the
North Koreans on the suspect underground construction. We expect the
talks on access to the suspect construction to be lengthy and complex.
We have made clear to the North Koreans that further progress in
improving bilateral relations and our implementation of the Agreed
Framework requires clarification and satisfaction on the nature of the
suspect underground construction. We also continue to make clear to
them that the DPRK must live up to its obligations under the Agreed
Framework.
On the question of the North Koreans sanitizing the site before we
access it, let me say that we have the same concerns and for that
reason are monitoring the site closely.
Question. In response to North Korea's recent launch, Japan has
frozen aid to North Korea for both food and KEDO, has suspended charter
flights, and talked of beefing up its missile defenses. This apparently
is a much tougher response than our own. What is the Administration's
opinion of the Japanese policy?
Answer. We share Japan's strong concerns about the North Korean
missile launch. The launch constituted a threat to regional stability
and has serious implications for our security arrangements in Northeast
Asia. The U.S. will raise the full range of our concerns about North
Korea's indigenous missile activities and exports in missile talks with
North Korea on October 1 in New York.
The U.S., ROK and Japan continue to consult closely on the nature
and implications of the missile launch. Secretary Albright met with her
South Korean and Japanese counterparts September 24 in New York to
consult on North Korea, and the DPRK missile launch was a major topic
of their discussions.
In the aftermath of the missile launch, Japan postponed signing the
burden-sharing agreement for the light-water reactor to be constructed
by KEDO. Nonetheless, all KEDO member governments--including Japan--
have reaffirmed since the missile launch their support for the Agreed
Framework and commitment to KEDO. A copy of that reaffirmation is
attached.
______
U.S. Department of State,
Office on the Spokesman,
For Immediate Release: September 24, 1998.
Joint Statement on North Korea Issues
September 24, 1998
by
The Minister for Foreign Affairs of Japan
The Minister of Foreign Affairs and Trade of the Republic of Korea
and
The Secretary of State of the United States of America
Minister for Foreign Affairs Masahiko Koumura, Minister of
Foreign Affairs and Trade Hong Soon-young, and Secretary of
State Madeline K. Albright met in New York on September 24,
1998 to discuss and coordinate policies regarding North Korea.
The three Ministers confirmed the importance of maintaining
the Agreed Framework signed between the United States and North
Korea in October 1994 and the Korean Peninsula Energy
Development Organization (KEDO) as the most realistic and
effective mechanisms for preventing North Korea from advancing
its nuclear program. They urged North Korea to implement fully
the Agreed Framework including the continued freeze of nuclear
activities under IAEA monitoring and to remove any doubts about
its nuclear program. Secretary Albright explained that the
recent U.S.-North Korea talks resulted in mutual reconfirmation
of U.S. and North Korean commitment to the Agreed framework.
Ministers Koumura and Hong reaffirmed their support for the
Agreed Framework and all three ministers reiterated their
commitment to KEDO. The three Ministers agreed to continue to
consult and coordinate fully and Secretary Albright stated that
the U.S. would continue to fully respect the positions of the
governments of Japan and the Republic of Korea in implementing
the Agreed framework, including the Light Water Reactor
project.
The three Ministers deplored North Korea's recent missile
launch. They agreed that North Korea's missile development, if
unchecked, would adversely affect the peace and security of
Japan, the Republic of Korea and the entire Northeast Asia
region, and that it raised serious concerns about the
proliferation of weapons of mass destruction and their delivery
systems. They shared the concern and regret expressed by the
members of the United Nations Security Council over North
Korea's launching of a missile without prior notification to
the countries in the region, which was irresponsible and in
disregard of international safety norms.
They also reviewed the results of talks between the United
States and North Korea held from August 21 to September 5, 1998
in New York. These results included resumption of U.S.-North
Korea missile talks, an important forum at which to address the
North Korean missile issue. Secretary Albright expressed the
determination of the United States Government to seek through
those talks the cessation of North Korean flight-testing,
production, deployment, and export of missiles and related
material and technology. Ministers Koumura and Hong expressed
their support for these U.S. efforts and stressed the
importance of North Korea's committing to tangible steps in the
missile talks.
The three Ministers also reviewed other, no less important
steps that the United States and North Korea have agreed upon
recently. They include North Korean Agreement to continue
serious discussions to clarify the nature of suspect
underground construction in North Korea, to complete promptly
the canning of the remaining spent fuel rods at Yongbyon, and
to hold a third plenary meeting of the Four Party Talks and
discussions on terrorism. The three Ministers agreed to consult
closely in all aspects of these talks.
They reaffirmed the importance of close consultation
concerning policies toward North Korea.
______
Question. Should Japan decide that further aid to North Korea is
not in its interest, what kind of ramifications will this have on our
own policy toward North Korea?
Answer. As described above, we consult very closely with the
Government of Japan, as well as the Republic of Korea, as the three
countries address the challenges presented by the North Koreans to the
security of Northeast Asia. Japan has publicly reaffirmed since North
Korea's missile launch its commitments to continued commitment to KEDO
and support for the Agreed Framework, which all three countries
recognize as critical to maintaining peace and stability on the Korean
Peninsula.