    [Senate Hearing 105-640]
    [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]

                                                            S. Hrg. 105-640

                     ``KEEPING THE NATION'S CAPITAL SAFE''

    =======================================================================

                                    HEARING

                                   before the

                          SUBCOMMITTEE ON OVERSIGHT OF
                     GOVERNMENT MANAGEMENT, RESTRUCTURING,
                          AND THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA

                                     of the

                                  COMMITTEE ON
                              GOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS
                              UNITED STATES SENATE

                           ONE HUNDRED FIFTH CONGRESS

                                 SECOND SESSION

                                   __________

                                 JULY 27, 1998

                                   __________

          Printed for the use of the Committee on Governmental Affairs

                        U.S. GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE
    50-356cc                   WASHINGTON : 1998

    _______________________________________________________________________
                For sale by the U.S. Government Printing Office
    Superintendent of Documents, Congressional Sales Office, Washington, DC 20402

                       COMMITTEE ON GOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS

                       FRED THOMPSON, Tennessee, Chairman
    WILLIAM V. ROTH, Jr., Delaware       JOHN GLENN, Ohio
    TED STEVENS, Alaska                  CARL LEVIN, Michigan
    SUSAN M. COLLINS, Maine              JOSEPH I. LIEBERMAN, Connecticut
    SAM BROWNBACK, Kansas                DANIEL K. AKAKA, Hawaii
    PETE V. DOMENICI, New Mexico         RICHARD J. DURBIN, Illinois
    THAD COCHRAN, Mississippi            ROBERT G. TORRICELLI, New Jersey
    DON NICKLES, Oklahoma                MAX CLELAND, Georgia
    ARLEN SPECTER, Pennsylvania
                 Hannah S. Sistare, Staff Director and Counsel
                     Leonard Weiss, Minority Staff Director
                           Lynn L. Baker, Chief Clerk

                                     ------

    SUBCOMMITTEE ON OVERSIGHT OF GOVERNMENT MANAGEMENT, RESTRUCTURING, AND
                            THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA

                        SAM BROWNBACK, Kansas, Chairman
    WILLIAM V. ROTH, Jr., Delaware       JOSEPH I. LIEBERMAN, Connecticut
    ARLEN SPECTER, Pennsylvania          MAX CLELAND, Georgia
                         Michael Rubin, Staff Director
                   Laurie Rubenstein, Minority Staff Director
                          Esmeralda Amos, Chief Clerk

                                C O N T E N T S

                                     ------
    Opening statements:
                                                                       Page
        Senator Brownback............................................     1

                                   WITNESSES
                             Monday, July 27, 1998

    Charles H. Ramsey, Chief of Police, Metropolitan Police
      Department, District of Columbia, accompanied by Terrence
      Gainer, Executive Assistant Chief of Police, and Mike
      Fitzgerald, Assistant Chief, Technical Services................     3
    James F. Foreman, Coordinator, Metro Orange Coalition............    12
    Kirsten Oldenburg, Editor, Crimemail, D.C. Police Service Area
      109............................................................    14

                         Alphabetical List of Witnesses

    Foreman, James F:
        Testimony....................................................    12
        Prepared statement...........................................    44
    Oldenburg, Kirsten:
        Testimony....................................................    14
        Prepared statement...........................................    48
    Ramsey, Charles H.:
        Testimony....................................................     3
        Prepared statement...........................................    42

                                    APPENDIX

    Inspector General's Report of Investigation 98-0205..............    23

                     ``KEEPING THE NATION'S CAPITAL SAFE''

                                  ----------

                             MONDAY, JULY 27, 1998

                                           U.S. Senate,
          Oversight of Government, Management, Restructuring,
                           and the District of Columbia Subcommittee,
                              of the Committee on Governmental Affairs,
                                                        Washington, DC.
        The Subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 3:01 p.m., in
    room SD-342, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Sam
    Brownback, Chairman of the Subcommittee, presiding.
        Present: Senator Brownback.

                 OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR BROWNBACK

        Senator Brownback. The hearing will come to order.
        I want to start this hearing with a tribute to two heroes.
    In an era when sacrifice to some seems foolish and only a
    quaint notion of a bygone era to others, Officers Jacob
    Chestnut and John Gibson sacrificed their lives so that others
    might live.
        They are true heroes of our day, people to emulate, and
    people to pay tribute to. This grateful Nation will long
    remember their unflinching response when duty called. What more
    can a man give than to lay down his life for his brother? And
    these men gave it all, and for that, we can never thank them or
    their families enough.
        I would ask those that are present, if you would, to join
    me in a silent prayer for these two heroes.
        [Moment of silence.]
        Senator Brownback. Thank you.
        We have an open Capitol to our Nation, and that is as it
    should be. This is the people's place, where the people's
    business is conducted. Nearly 18,000 visitors a day pass
    through this Capitol Building of which we are but the current
    trustees. We should not keep the people from their place
    because of the craven acts of one. To do that, it seems to me,
    would let fear win and faith lose.
        We may need to tighten security, but let us not close the
    Capitol. The matter of the Capitol security is under the
    jurisdiction of another committee. It is under the jurisdiction
    of the Rules Committee, and they will be reviewing this matter
    thoroughly.
        Our hearing today is about crime in our Nation's Capital,
    Washington, DC, of which sadly Friday's shooting was only the
    latest installment of a bad situation. That, I can, though,
    note for the record, has been improving, but remains far, far
    too violent.
        The culture of violence and death that we see all too often
    across our Nation continues to play out in our Nation's
    Capital. One just has to ask and stop and think and reflect for
    a moment when will we change. When will it be different?
        I think the only answer we can say to that is when each of
    us do all we can to change and to orient ourselves much more
    towards life and towards living and caring and giving and
    helping.
        Tomorrow, I think it is fitting as well and appropriate
    that we will be giving a further tribute to these two officers
    that sacrificed so much that it just shocks the Nation and it
    shocks our conscience. Hopefully, it will shock us to action,
    too.
        The hearing that we are focused on today is about overall
    crime in the Nation's Capital, and in particular, we want to
    look at the 911 system.
        I would like to welcome everyone here today, especially our
    new police chief, Charles Ramsey, who has been on the job for
    some period of time. Chief Ramsey, we are happy to have you
    here with us today.
        I would also like to welcome our two DC residents, Kirsten
    Oldenburg and James Foreman. I am looking forward to hearing
    about their efforts to stop the spread of crime in their own
    neighborhoods.
        I certainly believe that close cooperation between law
    enforcement and local community leaders is absolutely vital if
    we are to change our Nation and if we are to improve the
    situation. We cannot just depend on the police alone.
        In May, the Subcommittee held a hearing with various DC
    faith-based charities. We heard from a number of individuals
    there who have been involved in trying to change the face of
    the Washington, DC, community, with some success, one person at
    a time. I believe we need more people like these involved in
    the lives of their neighbors. The Police Department has a tough
    enough job as it is without having to protect a passive
    community.
        A stronger bond needs to be built between neighborhood
    leaders and the police. Crime in the city is not a Police
    Department problem, as it is not in our Nation. It is the
    result of a community in need, and any solution needs to start
    within that community, or for us, within our Nation.
        I wanted to call this hearing to take a look at some of the
    grass-roots efforts that are being implemented to fight crime
    at the neighborhood level and also to examine the recent DC
    Inspector General's report on the emergency 911 system, of
    which we will discuss some more here today.
        Last month, the District's Inspector General released a
    report critical of the Metropolitan Police Department's 911
    emergency system.\1\ Unfortunately, results found that some of
    the calls were not being returned or were not being answered in
    a timely fashion. We want to review today, with the Police
    Chief, what has been taking place to get those corrected so
    that we can get response in the system quickly.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
        \1\ The Inspector General's Report of Investigation 98-0205 appears
    in the Appendix on page 23.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
        I believe that it is crucial for communities within DC to
    develop positive relationships with the Metropolitan Police
    Department built on mutual respect and on confidence. Folks
    should have a sense of security in a place that they live,
    work, and do business.
        I am aware of some programs that the MPD has established to
    address this problem, such as the Police Service areas, and I
    look forward to discussing those.
        I also look forward to hearing from the citizens' side and
    discuss what they are doing in their own communities to aid the
    police in our Nation's Capital.
        With that, I would like to welcome Police Chief Ramsey. If
    you would care to come up to the table, Police Chief, to begin
    the testimony here today and to introduce the other gentlemen
    that are with you.
        As I stated at the outset, I welcome you to your position
    of Police Chief. I know you have been in the job for some
    period of time. I have also noted that violent crime in our
    Nation's Capital has gone down substantially, but it is still
    at far too high of a level, and we see tragic events that
    happen all around us that just draw that more into sharp focus
    for us. So I look forward to your testimony here today.
        Police Chief Ramsey, thank you for joining us here today.

          STATEMENT OF CHARLES H. RAMSEY,\1\ CHIEF OF POLICE,
         METROPOLITAN POLICE DEPARTMENT, DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA,
     ACCOMPANIED BY TERRENCE GAINER, EXECUTIVE ASSISTANT CHIEF OF
        POLICE, AND MIKE FITZGERALD, ASSISTANT CHIEF, TECHNICAL
                                SERVICES

        Mr. Ramsey. Thank you for inviting me, sir. I have looked
    forward to being able to spend time now talking about a couple
    of very critical issues.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
        \1\ The prepared statement of Mr. Ramsey appears in the Appendix on
    page 42.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
        Before I get started, though, I would also like to thank
    you for the comments you just made regarding the two officers
    that recently lost their lives last Friday. They are indeed
    heroes. On behalf of the entire Metropolitan Police Department,
    I would like to extend my condolences to the families of both
    officers.
        We were there Friday during that scene. It was a very
    tragic situation that took place, but, again, it does point out
    the fact that day in and day out, men and women across this
    country do put themselves in jeopardy in order to see to it
    that the rest of society can remain safe. It is incidents like
    this that heighten that awareness of the sacrifices that are
    made on a regular basis. So thank you very much for those
    words. I am sure it means an awful lot to not just the families
    of those officers, but to law enforcement families throughout
    the country, it means a lot.
        Senator Brownback. I thank you for what you do and what you
    symbolize and represent in the police, and those that keep us
    safe.
        Mr. Ramsey. I would like to introduce two people that are
    here with me. Terrence Gainer is the Executive Assistant Chief
    of Police. He has been with us now for 2 months. He is my
    second-in-command. He was formerly the director of the Illinois
    State Police for about 8 years, and agreed to come with me here
    to Washington.
        I have Mike Fitzgerald on my right, who is the Assistant
    Chief in charge of Technical Services. Technical Services is
    the bureau that covers the 911 system. The Communications
    Section is in his bureau.
        Senator Brownback. Good.
        Mr. Ramsey. So he will be able to answer some of the more
    technical questions that you may have about this system and how
    it functions.
        I have prepared written testimony, sir, which has been
    submitted in advance.
        Senator Brownback. I would prefer if you approve not to
    read from that, but rather to just let that stand and cut to
    the chase and really get into the heart of the matter because
    you raised some very important issues.
        I agree with you wholeheartedly that the 911 system is
    something that we need to pay close attention to. It is a
    lifeline, if you will, not only for citizens, but for our
    officers as well. I think Friday's events points out the need
    to be able to get people on the scene of an event very quickly.
        Mr. Ramsey. Fortunately, that was one incident where
    responses was quick. As a result of that quick response, we
    were able to detain witnesses to that particular crime, get
    emergency response there in the form of ambulances and so
    forth, and I think that that kind of thing is something that is
    not only expected. You should demand that from us that you have
    a system that works. When you call 911, you should have a
    reasonable expectation that the police will come, and come
    very, very quickly.
        Unfortunately, that has not always been our history here,
    and Inspector Prettyman's report highlighted that. I would like
    to just give you a glimpse of some of the things since that
    report came out that we are doing right now in order to try to
    correct some of those problems.
        The long-term solution to the problem is a new center, and
    I will talk about that later because the one we currently have
    is really not adequate enough to handle the volume of calls
    that come into our department. We handle almost 2 million calls
    for service annually, and that is quite a few calls for
    service. And we need a system that can handle that.
        But just very quickly, let me just address a couple of the
    findings that Inspector Prettyman had in his report, and let
    you know where we are at right now in terms of trying to deal
    with that.
        The first finding, it dealt with our inability to answer
    emergency calls within 5 seconds and non-emergency calls within
    12 seconds. Those are considered to be national standards in
    terms of response.
        The report found that of the 250,000 calls that they took a
    look at during the first 5 months of 1998, we had only
    responded in under 8 seconds to about 167,000 of those calls. I
    asked at the time whether or not any of those calls were
    answered under 5 seconds, and I was told that they were unable
    to really give us an exact count of the numbers of calls
    answered under 5 seconds. So we do not know how many of that
    167,000 was actually within the accepted time frame, but it
    still points out to a problem that we are not getting to the
    calls for service quick enough.
        One of the reasons why, as pointed out in a report, was a
    staffing issue. Since that report has come out, what I have
    done is I have assigned 20 limited-duty police officers to the
    Communications Section, to shore up personnel there. They bring
    with them a great deal of experience in knowing what is
    required in terms of answering calls for service, dispatching
    calls to units in the field. These are people that, because of
    injuries and other types of reasons, are unable to perform in a
    full-duty capacity. So we did not take people off the street in
    order to do this.
        We utilized limited-duty personnel throughout the
    Department in order to help us with some of the administrative
    tasks that need to be done in the Department, and we have
    detailed 20 people to the Communications Center. Now, that is
    spread out across all three shifts. That is not 20 working at
    any one time. That is spread out across the three shifts, but
    that has added to our personnel.
        When needed, overtime is approved if we need that in order
    to fully staff our positions. Full staffing for us would be 15
    call-takers and 11 dispatchers. That would be full staffing.
        Because of the high rate of absenteeism in the
    Communications Section, which is a problem that we have been
    working on--my understanding, for several years now, we have
    had a problem with sick leave abuse in that particular unit--
    this has helped tremendously in that.
        We have posted vacancy announcements for 26 positions that
    are currently vacant in the Communications Section, and we have
    posted those positions for hire. And our Personnel Office is
    working toward trying to bring in civilians that can make up
    the staffing so that we do not have to keep those officers
    there for any extended period of time because there are other
    functions, and some of them will be returning to full duty,
    quite frankly, at some future point in time if it is a health-
    related type of injury, if that is why they are limited duty.
        Another thing that came out in the study was the fact that
    our dispatchers are paid at a rate that is substantially below
    our neighboring jurisdictions. We have proposed legislation to
    upgrade the wages for those individuals assigned as call-takers
    and dispatchers. It is currently pending before the Council for
    the District of Columbia for their approval.
        I think that is very important because one of the reasons
    why we have difficulty in maintaining staffing levels is
    because people, once they learn those jobs, leave us and go to
    other jurisdictions because they can make substantially more
    money doing the same thing. So it makes it very difficult to
    keep people in those positions when you are not competitive
    salary-wise, and we are taking steps to try to deal with that.
        We are also looking at training that can enhance employee
    performance. I do not think we do nearly enough in this
    organization as it relates to training; in particular, training
    of our civilian personnel. That is a very vital role in the
    Department. Everything begins there at the 911 Center.
        We need to have better training for our personnel so that
    once they do respond and answer calls, they are capable of
    being able to deal with any emergency that they may be faced
    with at that particular moment.
        I realize that we have problems with our 911 Center, but I
    also do not want to overlook the fact that thousands of calls
    come into that Center on a daily basis, and a vast majority of
    them are handled efficiently and professionally. And the men
    and women that perform that task day in and day out--and it is
    an incredibly stressful job--deserve some credit for the
    positive things they do, but, again, that is not to say that
    there is not room for improvement because there is room for
    improvement. And the Inspector General's report certainly
    points that out.
        His second finding, which I touched on briefly, dealt with
    the fact that there seems to be an abuse of sick leave which is
    one reason why we cannot maintain staffing. I will get into
    that in just a little more detail for you now.
        The director of Communications Division is closely
    monitoring the use of sick leave, looking for abuse patterns
    with particular employees, and we will take corrective action
    against those people who are abusing the medical-roll system
    that we have in place within the Metropolitan Police
    Department, but a lot of the reasons, I think, why people tend
    to go on the medical roll rather than report to work is really
    because of stress-related types of illnesses.
        One of the things that we have done is we have contacted
    Dr. Beverly Anderson, who is the administrator of our Employee
    Assistance Program, to come up with a comprehensive stress
    management program. We have to find ways not only in the 911
    Center, but I think policing in general. Very little has been
    done internally in most departments to really help police
    officers and other members of the Department effectively deal
    with the stress associated with their jobs. It is very
    difficult to be in a position where every time the phone rings,
    someone's life could very well hang in the balance. That is an
    incredibly stressful situation to be in, day in and day out.
        We do not do a good job in helping people manage that. The
    long hours that they have to work--I do not know if you have
    ever seen our Communications Center. I would be glad to show it
    to you, but it is certainly not a place that you would like to
    spend a great deal of time in. It is an old facility. It was
    not really designed with a lot of the more modern thinking that
    we currently have relative to environment and the way people
    function in those environments and how to help, you know, have
    lounge areas where people can get away from the stress and be
    able to relax and so forth. It is a very confined space, but we
    are working with Dr. Anderson to put together a good stress
    management program for our personnel, and also working with the
    Renaissance Clinic Counseling Center that is also participating
    in that.
        The last finding, one that I take some exception to, but I
    do understand and agree somewhat that perhaps there is validity
    to this, and that is that we are not responding in a timely
    phased fashion to the scene of emergency and non-emergency
    requests for assistance. That basically was the result of their
    reviewing 300 citizen complaints that came in during 1997
    relative to slow response on the part of the police.
        I think that when you stop and consider that almost 2
    million calls for service came across that system, to pick out
    300 and draw that kind of conclusion is a bit unfair, but I
    think that there is room for improvement there, and let me tell
    you a couple of things we are doing in order to deal more
    effectively with that.
        We had a practice in the past, when people called 911, the
    dispatchers would not give them a time frame in which they
    could expect the police to arrive. They would simply just say,
    ``We will send the police.''
        Well, if you tell me you are going to send the police, I
    immediately go to the window, start looking outside, do not
    want to miss them. I want to make sure I am there when they
    arrive. If they come an hour later, usually you would be upset
    about something like that.
        If you have a situation that the police are being
    dispatched, but it is not of an emergency nature, a Code-1 type
    of call, where our immediate response is needed because the
    person has been injured, an offender is on the scene, what have
    you, or there to take a report for something that is not
    considered to be a priority one, oftentimes there is a delay in
    dispatching. We now have changed our policy where if we know
    that it is going to be because of the volume of work that is
    taking place that particular night under that particular PSA or
    in that district, we give people a realistic time frame. If it
    is going to be an hour, we will tell them it will be about an
    hour before the unit arrives. That makes it easier for people
    in a lot of ways because I think that some of the complaints we
    have, we can avoid by simply just communicating better to them
    how long it is going to take.
        As far as the Code 1, priority-one types of calls for
    service, once that call is given to the officer, the response
    time is pretty much within the time frames that exist in other
    departments. It obviously depends on how close you are at the
    time the call comes out, but our response once the call is
    actually given out to the units in the field is really pretty
    good for Code-1 types of assignments.
        With the new PSA model--and I know you want to talk about
    the PSAs--there was, again, another policy change that was not
    effectively communicated to the public, and that is that
    because we are trying to maintain beat integrity and we are
    trying to have officers from the particular PSAs respond to as
    many calls on their individual PSAs as possible, that means
    that in many cases, some calls are stacked so that that officer
    can respond personally to those particular calls. It gets back
    to what I said earlier about not giving accurate information to
    people about when they can expect to actually see the police.
        In the past, the first available unit would be dispatched
    regardless of the call, but what that does is it breaks down
    beat integrity because now that officer that was assigned to
    patrol a particular PSA is pulled off that PSA to answer a call
    and another PSA and so forth, and it is kind of a domino effect
    when you start to lose beat integrity. Once you have lost it,
    it takes a long time to recover.
        So we try to categorize calls based on their priority, and
    the need for us to get there very, very quickly. Our problem
    has been in the past that we simply did not communicate that
    very effectively.
        One last thing about response time that kind of indirectly
    feeds into that is getting more active in marketing our non-
    emergency number, 727-1010. Eventually, we would like to go
    toward 311, which is being used in Baltimore, and we are
    studying that now to really take a look at the feasibility of
    having a 311 system here in the District, but the more calls
    for service that could get off of our 911 system, the better
    off we all are. And people need to understand when it is
    appropriate to call 911 and when it is really better for them
    to call 311. Save those phone lines so when that call comes in,
    because we can handle up to 15 calls simultaneously. Otherwise,
    people get a recording and are asked to wait on the line, but
    if you have got a true emergency, you do not need to be waiting
    on the line. Of those 15 calls, I would be willing to bet you
    that at any given time, 6 or 7 of them are probably calls that
    should be on the non-emergency system.
        So that is something that we have to really pay a lot of
    attention to, really market. We asked the community to help us
    with that, so not to use 911 inappropriately. So, when people
    call and really do need help, we are in the best position
    possible to be able to provide that assistance to them.
        Just real quickly on our PSAs, since you had asked about
    PSAs, we are now 1 year into that new policing strategy, a
    community-oriented policing strategy that really brings beat
    integrity back in vogue.
        Years ago, you had the old foot policeman and you had the
    beat cops that knew very well everything that was going on in
    their areas of responsibility. Back in the 1960's, 1970's, and
    1980's, we just lost that in most jurisdictions. We got very
    incident-driven. Police officers pulled further and further
    away from the community, and beat integrity became something
    that was a thing of the past.
        Community policing brings all that back in place. We can
    work with community. We can form effective partnerships.
        I went to a meeting earlier today for the Alliance of
    Concerned Men that are very active in Benning Terrace, and
    prior to their involvement, Benning Terrace was an area that
    averaged seven or eight homicides per year. In the last year
    now, they have had one homicide in that 1-year period, and that
    is because the police, the community, the residents really
    began working together and having an effect on gang violence.
    And we need to extend that to the rest of the District of
    Columbia.
        We have been enjoying a decrease of crime. As of today's
    date, we have a 19-percent decline in part-one offense over
    last year. We are about 45 homicides below last year's total.
    So we are seeing changes in crime for the better, but there is
    still far too much crime that is taking place in the District
    of Columbia, and until we are at a level where homicides fall
    into single digits, in my opinion--in fact, there is no need to
    have any homicides because one is too many for the family that
    has to deal with the grief and the anguish of having lost a
    loved one.
        We have a long way to go to really get crime where it ought
    to be to make our city the safest city in the country, which it
    ought to be as our Nation's Capital, but we are moving in a
    positive direction as it relates to crime.
        I would be glad to answer any specific questions that you
    might have. I apologize if I kind of rambled on a little bit
    too long, but I wanted to give you an idea of where we are now
    and what we are trying to do to correct some of those issues
    that Inspector General Prettyman pointed out in his report.
        Thank you.
        Senator Brownback. I thank you for that, Mr. Ramsey.
        I was just sitting here listening to it, and your
    comments--to me, I was just sitting here thinking how thankful
    I am that you are willing to do your job, and the officers on
    either side of you are as well. We never say thank you enough,
    and we pull people up here in front of these committees all the
    time and say, well, why don't you do this and why don't you do
    that. Thank God, you are willing to do what you do, and that
    you are out on the streets and your officers are on the streets
    protecting people.
        I know on Friday, there was a slain police officer that was
    buried. He had been an undercover officer, and we have had a
    number of those happen in the DC area. And we just never say
    thanks enough for you and your fellow uniformed officers, men
    and women that protect us, and the Capitol Hill Police of what
    they do here as well.
        I am struck, though, too, as I sit here, and as I was
    flying back from Kansas today, we are all tired of the violence
    and the killing and the death that is taking place. So we hire
    more police officers, or we build more penitentiaries, or we
    pass more laws. Are there things we are not doing? Is there
    something that we can reach out and do more ourselves? Are we
    trying to do it too collectively and not individually? What is
    it we are not doing that we are still having so much violence
    and death in this culture?
        Mr. Ramsey. Sir, I do think that there are things that we
    are not doing, at least that we are not doing enough.
        The focus traditionally had always been on building more
    prisons and hiring more police officers. My personal feeling is
    that we have to really look to prevention and intervention and
    really put resources there as well.
        For years--and I am a 30-year veteran in law enforcement,
    and there was a point in my career where I thought just locking
    folks up and throwing away the key was the way to solve all our
    problems, but the longer I was in policing, the more I saw. And
    do not get me wrong. There are some people who do need to be
    locked up and the key thrown away, but I think that instead of
    us just looking at ourselves as being responsible for feeding
    the criminal justice system, we have an equal responsibility to
    help starve it. You help starve it by preventing people from
    going down the wrong path to begin with.
        I do not think we do nearly enough to really work with
    young people, to work with even ex-offenders; that once they
    have paid their debt to society, helping them assimilate back
    into society. I think prevention and intervention programs need
    to be as much as part of what we do as the enforcement side of
    things, and I do not think we do enough in that area.
        Senator Brownback. Are there things you could recommend for
    the Nation's Capital that we ought to be doing more of in that
    prevention program area?
        Mr. Ramsey. Well, there are a lot of areas, sir. One is
    certainly in dealing with young people. We have our
    Metropolitan Police boys and girls clubs, and, of course,
    people tend to look at things like athletics as being the
    solution to all our problems, and that is not what I am talking
    about. That is part of it, but we also have mentoring that
    takes place there. We have computer learning centers where
    kids, underprivileged kids that probably would never know what
    it is like to be able to use the Internet if it was not for a
    place like that where they could really come and use those
    kinds of facilities.
        We depend on donations in order to be able to keep those
    facilities up. Domestic violence is an area where more can be
    done on intervention. We know from analyzing that particular
    type of crime that after the first or second call for service
    to that location--usually, when you come back, some kind of
    violence has taken place, either a battery or, in some cases,
    unfortunately, even a homicide. If social services could be put
    in at an early-enough time where we are able to intervene,
    perhaps we could avoid that more serious crime from occurring.
        When you have domestic violence, oftentimes you have child
    abuse, you have elder abuse. I mean, there are a lot of areas,
    and we know a lot about crime now, where if at the right time
    intervention strategies took hold, we could maybe do a lot to
    change what ultimately winds up happening when people wind up
    committing a more serious crime and actually going to jail as a
    result of it.
        Senator Brownback. Chief, you describe a situation that,
    really, you have got to have a lot more of us involved. I mean,
    as people in the community, we have got to be willing to reach
    out and to find that person that is troubled or in a difficult
    situation and either get involved in their lives or report it
    at an earlier phase or try to work with people through some of
    these organizations. You have talked with them, and I think
    everything you describe is accurate and good. It is going to
    take a lot more of each of us doing a lot more than we
    currently are, even in the busy lives that we have.
        Mr. Ramsey. It does take a collective effort, and a lot of
    the breakdown is family. I think that the church needs to play
    a stronger role. Certainly, many of the children come from
    dysfunctional families or the family members are drug addicts
    or, what have you, gang members. It is a very complicated
    problem, but it is really going to take a comprehensive
    approach with all of us sitting down together figuring out ways
    to make a difference.
        We have a huge role in this as police, and, again, we need
    to focus on those people that are repeat offenders that are out
    there causing harm to the public, find them and arrest them. So
    I am certainly not saying that that is not part of the process,
    too. It is part of the process, but we also need to have that
    eye on that next generation and on the future and trying to
    prevent as much of this as we possibly can. That is going to
    take the collective efforts of all of us.
        When you have folks that are willing to spend their own
    time, like the orange-hat patrols throughout the city and
    private service organizations that just--I cannot tell you how
    much they mean to our being able to get out there and fight
    crime.
        My hat is off to them because these are volunteers. They do
    not get paid anything, but they are willing to work to make
    their neighborhoods safer, and that is what it takes.
        Senator Brownback. I want to get Mr. Fitzgerald here
    because the topic of the hearing, as we had said some time
    back, was to look at the 911 system.
        You have heard the police chief testify, and you have seen
    his response. Are we going to be able to get ahead of the
    problem there that had been identified with 911? What do you
    think?
        Mr. Fitzgerald. Yes, I believe we are going to get ahead of
    it. What we are doing now, instead of what we have done in the
    past, just as with the communities, the Police Department no
    longer works in a vacuum, the same way with the technology
    efforts. We are looking at integrating our systems not only
    with the Police Department, but with the Fire Department, to
    have that centralized communications center, also looking at
    having our systems connected directly to the Internet and
    reference the information to be passed down.
        There is a lot of things we are doing instead of having a
    quick response in regards to trying to fix it, and we still
    have a long-term problem. We are looking at not only long term,
    we are looking at short term, plus long term, and I assure you
    that basically within the near future, this problem would
    correct it.
        Senator Brownback. Good. Well, that is what we need to have
    is a system that does work in a timely fashion so that people
    can feel comfortable in it.
        Chief, just one other question. Do you have programs
    dealing with gangs? What are you doing to try to stop some of
    that crime from spreading?
        Gangs, as we have heard several people testify, form the
    family nucleus for too many troubled young people. Are there
    things we are trying to do to integrate them back into their
    own families or into a good family situation?
        Mr. Ramsey. Yes, sir. In fact, one program called GREAT is
    a program that we are implementing through the schools. It is a
    program that is used in other cities. It is much like DARE,
    where kids at a young age are taught about the dangers of
    gangs, because, again, part of the strategy is dealing with
    current gang members, but the other part is the up-front
    prevention to keep the youngest members from becoming gang
    members in the future.
        As far as current gang members, working with the Alliance
    of Concerned Men, the group I referred to earlier, they do
    extensive work with current gang members, trying to turn their
    lives around.
        Now, it becomes far more difficult when you are talking
    about the more hardened gang members. Some of them, we need to
    be able to really just focus on and just remove them from
    society because they have gone beyond the point where
    prevention is really going to make a difference. In that case,
    we are working with probation and parole, where we are really
    trying to identify some of those hard-core gang members, look
    at their conditions of probation or conditions of parole, and
    really monitor them and see to it that they are adhering to
    those conditions and do not get back out here and commit other
    crimes.
        So those hardened individuals that want to continually
    create havoc in our communities, we are monitoring them as
    well, but on the prevention side, working with the schools,
    working with churches, working with other groups, trying to
    reach young people and give them alternatives to gangs is
    something that we are very actively involved in. Again, we
    could do more, but we are involved in that.
        Senator Brownback. Thanks for doing that. If anybody is
    watching or listening to this hearing and wants to get involved
    in somebody else's life and help turn it around, they can feel
    free to contact, I am sure, your office or mine, and we will
    put them with whatever organization or person to reach out.
        I am just convinced myself and thankful that we have folks
    like you that do put the uniform on and protect us all, but the
    rest of us are going to have to just get involved a lot more if
    we are going to turn this overall situation around.
        Thank you very much for being here with us today and for
    your testimony and for your work as police chief. I look
    forward to that day, too, when we do not have any homicides. We
    are a long way from it today, although the trends are moving in
    the right direction on violent crime, and we can hope those
    keep going the same way.
        Mr. Ramsey. Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman, and, again, I
    look forward to working with you. You have been a big supporter
    of law enforcement in the past, and I look forward to working
    with you in the future.
        Senator Brownback. We will keep doing it. God bless you
    all.
        Our second panel is James F. Foreman, Coordinator of the
    Orange Hats Patrol, and Kirsten Oldenburg. She is the Editor of
    the Crimemail. It is an online crime newsletter to citizens
    groups that are helping out in the DC crime situation.
        Thank you both very much for joining us. We appreciate your
    volunteer work that you do and appreciate your being willing to
    come here today.
        Mr. Foreman, welcome to you first, and we would be happy to
    receive your testimony. Did you want to give it orally or in
    writing?

      STATEMENT OF JAMES F. FOREMAN,\1\ COORDINATOR, METRO ORANGE
                               COALITION

        Mr. Foreman. Yes, sir. I would much rather--good evening.
    Glad to be here. I am always glad to come on the Hill. That is
    for sure. Perhaps something will be done because I made a trip
    to the Hill.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
        \1\ The prepared statement of Mr. Foreman entitled ``Metro Orange
    Coalition, Where Caring People Meet,'' appears in the Appendix on page
    44.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
        My name is James Foreman. I represent a group called Metro
    Orange Coalition. It is made up of people throughout the
    community, throughout the neighborhoods, everyday people, from
    every walk of life, from every nationality and every religious
    group, and political group, too.
        We have a membership in the Metropolitan Washington Area of
    over 17,000 people, still growing. We are located in 34
    different States in the Nation now, and still growing.
        The organization started in the year of 1986, and it
    started because of a drug problem we were having in the
    neighborhood that I lived in.
        We had an open-air drug market that was running rampant in
    the community. It was growing bigger and bigger every month.
    Nothing and no one was doing anything about it.
        So a couple of fellows and a couple of young ladies in the
    community got together and decided that we had to do something
    about it. So we did. Over a period of time, we did. We got rid
    of that particular open-air drug market, wiped it down. It was
    some of the baddest guys in the world, some of the most heavily
    armed guys in the world, and they were perceived to be that way
    by everybody within the community, but nevertheless they fell.
        From that point on, other communities called trying to find
    out exactly what they could do to get rid of their problem. So,
    in return, we went over and helped this group here, there, and
    pretty soon, we are doing it all over the city.
        At our peak, we had 334 different groups in the
    Metropolitan Washington Area made up of men and women and
    mostly female. As a matter of fact, it was made up of 86-
    percent female and only a very few fellows, really. Some of our
    groups were made up of 100-percent female, but they were very
    effective. They got the job done, and they made it work.
        When we started, we had a Police Department that was ready
    and willing to become a part of what we were doing. After they
    found out what we were doing, they were willing to be a part of
    it. After they found out that we were not a vigilante group
    that was willing to come out and by any means necessary take
    the streets back, after they were found we were not about that,
    they came out and became a part of.
        Collectively, together with the Metropolitan Police
    Department, the people that live within those community, within
    the city, DC National Guard, FBI, Park Police, and the Metro
    Police Department--collectively, we together made it happen in
    this town.
        Open-air drug markets since 1995 do not exist in this town
    any longer. It is hard-pressed to find an open-air drug market
    in this town. I think the last one, the FBI knocked off down in
    the Southwest a few months ago. Other than that, open-air drug
    markets do not exist in this town anymore.
        Drugs are being sold. There is no question about that.
    Drug-related crimes still occur. There is no question about
    that, but the people who live in those communities made doubly
    sure that open-air drug markets fell. They came out trying to
    save their children, grandchildren, and the children of the
    communities. They made a concerted effort to do something to
    solve the problem with those communities.
        These are people, working-class people, professional
    people, retirees--everybody pitched in, made it happen, made it
    work.
        It was 4 or 5 years ago, we had a change in the
    Metropolitan Police Department. We had a police chief that made
    it very difficult to operate within town. We had a police chief
    that made it so that we had more trouble with the Police
    Department than we had with the crooks on the street. No
    question about it.
        The chief was very unwilling to work with the citizens of
    the city. He did not work with the citizens of the city. By him
    not doing what he should have done, it passed around to his own
    senior officers, and they likewise fell away, but,
    nevertheless, the people in those communities did not stop
    doing what they were doing. But quite often, we had no help at
    all in a situation from the Metropolitan Police Department. If
    we needed help, we had to call the Park Police. We had to call
    the Metro Police. We had to call the FBI to assist and help us
    on the streets.
        It got so that we stopped calling the Metropolitan Police
    Department at all because we were not receiving services from
    the Metropolitan Police Department. This was the largest
    volunteer group in the city, and they turned their backs on the
    group and the city, but, nevertheless, we never turned out
    backs on the Metropolitan Police Department because a lot of
    the individual officers that worked the beats, they rode the
    beats, they in return--they still offered their service,
    irregardless of what they were instructed by their superiors.
    They, nevertheless, offered their service to the community, and
    they kept it going and they are still doing it.
        The Metropolitan Police Department today--the leadership of
    the Police Department today, I do not know. Again, I do not
    know him. The chief of police, I met for the first time today
    here. His assistant, I met for the first time today here. I do
    not know him. I do not know any of them really.
        I called a couple of times to request a meeting with them,
    but I have not had an opportunity as of yet to meet with the
    chief of police or the hierarchy of the Metropolitan Police
    Department, hoping that some day soon, we probably will.
        Senator Brownback. Well, hopefully, we will crack through
    that for you here.
        Mr. Foreman. That is right, no question about it, but,
    nevertheless, though, irregardless of whether we meet with them
    or not, we are still not going to stop working the street
    because those are our communities, our children, our homes, and
    our businesses within those communities. So we must keep it
    going.
        We found out one thing, that people can make it work.
    People are the key ingredients to making it work, and without
    the people that live in those communities being involved, it
    will not work. And the best thing about it, the people who live
    in those communities will get involved if you show them how to
    get involved. There is no question about it, and this is
    exactly what we do.
        Senator Brownback. Good. Thank you very much, Mr. Foreman,
    and that is absolutely right.
        For too long, I think we have tried to shove responsibility
    of things we are responsible for off to somebody else or some
    other entity. That is why we have paid our taxes, all of which
    are important, but, nonetheless, we have got to take
    responsibility and do a lot our selves.
        Ms. Oldenburg, thank you for joining us today. I appreciate
    your being here, and I appreciate your volunteer work that you
    have done and look forward to your testimony.

    STATEMENT OF KIRSTEN OLDENBURG,\1\ EDITOR, CRIMEMAIL, DC POLICE
                            SERVICE AREA 109

        Ms. Oldenburg. I did prepare a statement, and I have
    provided it to your office, but I would like to just provide
    you with a summary, an oral testimony.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
        \1\ The prepared statement of Ms. Oldenburg appears in the Appendix
    on page 48.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
        Senator Brownback. Please.
        Ms. Oldenburg. I have been a resident of Capitol Hill for
    15 years, and I have been working with the police in my
    neighborhood for almost a decade. Most of this was under what
    was then called Beat 26, and we were the first organized
    community group in DC around a police beat. That was mainly due
    to the efforts of a Sergeant Wally Bradford, who at those days
    was an anomaly in the Police Department in that he believed in
    community policing.
        Now I volunteer about 10 hours of my time a week to what is
    called PSA 109. Much of this time is consumed in operating an
    E-mail crime alert system that I started more than 2 years ago,
    and we now have over 500 subscribers. I send out a message
    about once a week, depending on criminal activity in our
    neighborhood. We also have lively discussions among subscribers
    of issues of concern.
        In addition, I publish a paper newsletter, unfortunately
    not often enough these days to properly inform the 4,000
    households of our PSA of what is happening around them.
        We also have a web site where people can go and, for
    instance, view a map that we produce once a month showing where
    crime has occurred and what type of crimes have occurred in the
    PSA. We have several orange-hat patrols. We maintain statistics
    on the PSA, and we are now trying to put together a court-watch
    group because one of the problems we have in DC is that the
    pieces of the criminal justice system are not well linked
    together. Once an arrest is made, the police hand the case over
    to the court, and we lose track of what is happening. Often,
    the police do as well. So we are trying to sort of link those
    two pieces of the system together.
        As you know, a year ago, MPD switched from the beat system
    to the PSA system, and I really believe that this has caused a
    major improvement from my perspective on the street. It
    signaled a major policy shift within the Department toward
    community policing. It put more officers on the street, and
    officers who stay in their assigned PSAs. Sergeants now have
    the authority to make critical resource decisions based on what
    is happening in the PSA, but I do feel that the PSAs suffer
    today from a lack of proper leadership, staffing levels, and
    training to tackle the kind of issues that the PSA model
    suggested they would.
        I think the basic problem is that MPD officers are trained
    to be reactive, in other words to chase after criminals, rather
    than proactively work on the problems that foster criminal
    behavior in the neighborhood.
        I also do not think they well understand the long-term
    coincidences of the actions they take in the community to the
    community. Right now many of the people in our community, our
    PSA, do not feel that the officers are making much effort to
    get to know the community, and, from my perspective, without
    this community policing just cannot work.
        Another issue is that our PSA has proven to be too large
    and too diverse to support a functioning community organization
    on the personal level that we were able to do with Beat 26. Our
    PSA is too large for even those of us who are quite active to
    get to know or even recognize all of the officers that are
    assigned to our PSA.
        I think that over time and with commitment from MPD and the
    community that these problems with the PSAs will be solved, but
    as an operator of an E-mail system that enables the community
    to discuss issues that bother them, I am most concerned today
    with the Department's communication and outreach skills. And
    these affect the way the community is willing to come forward
    and work cooperatively with the police.
        I want to give you a number of examples. In PSA 109, we
    have a designated block captain on every block, but the police
    do not use these people as a major conduit of information from
    them to the community or vice versa.
        In PSA 109, as you know, we have the E-mail system. Well,
    there are three other PSAs on Capitol Hill that also have E-
    mail systems now. We probably have a combined 1,000 people
    linked together online. However, police officials rarely
    voluntarily use this resource as a way to get out information
    to the community, nor have they set up a system to assure that
    we get timely information.
        The substation on Capitol Hill does provide us with updates
    on reported crime, but only when Officer Rita Hunt is
    available. When she is not there, the information flow stops,
    and as you know, crime does not.
        In June, PSA 109 was hit with 28 burglaries, a record for
    us in the last year and a half. Our PSA sergeant alerted us to
    this in mid-June. There was an arrest in July, but we know that
    in July burglaries are continuing. Incoming E-mail messages are
    starting to reflect a frustration with a lack of information on
    what the police are doing to handle this problem. People are
    getting tired of hearing about what they can do to prevent
    burglaries and want to know what the police are doing.
        To me, this is an example of police failure to volunteer
    information about an issue that they must understand that is of
    concern to the community, and let me add, we have the district
    commander, the First District substation captain, our PSA
    sergeant, and several officers on our E-mail list. So they can
    read what is of concern on a weekly basis to the community.
        Back in April and May, we had a lot of discussion on the E-
    mail list about the drug activity, drug markets we have in our
    PSA, and lack of any evidence that police were doing anything
    about them. Finally, Commander McManus of the First District
    came forward, and he told us that he had arranged for a drug
    enhancement unit to operate in our area. And this pleased
    people immensely. However, all this goodwill has now eroded
    because 2 months later residents never saw any increased police
    activity.
        The markets are still up and operating, and so this is a
    case of police who initially did the right thing and responded
    to the community's concerns, but now dropped the ball by not
    periodically coming forward with information on progress or
    lack thereof.
        I would like to conclude with an example of what I think
    was a tremendous officer with really good communication skills.
    He is not an MPD officer. He is a U.S. Park Police bicycle
    officer. This Officer Godfrey is assigned to the parks on
    Capitol Hill. He is now a subscriber to our E-mail via his
    personal E-mail, and when somebody submits information or there
    is a discussion on the E-mail about something that is in his
    jurisdiction, he immediately gets back to us on suggestions of
    how he could improve the situation or requesting more
    information so that he can track down what happened. I feel
    that he is doing a tremendous PR job for the U.S. Park Service,
    but he also does tremendous follow-through. So people are
    becoming very confident of his capabilities.
        I would like to conclude by saying that I think that MPD is
    definitely moving in the right direction, and, obviously, as a
    community, we wish it would move quicker, but we know these
    kind of changes just cannot happen overnight, but I hope that
    they will take a real serious look at their communication and
    outreach efforts with the aim of developing credibility in the
    community. I think they will get a lot back once they do that.
        Thank you.
        Senator Brownback. Thank you, Ms. Oldenburg, for that
    testimony.
        As I stated to the police panel, we are all very
    appreciative each and every day of them getting up and putting
    the uniform on.
        Ms. Oldenburg. I agree with you. We have great officers who
    work in our PSA, and I am trying to generalize. We have great
    individuals who we know of.
        Senator Brownback. We all appreciate that.
        What we are searching for here is that if we are to get
    crime down in this country, in this Nation, it is not just a
    matter of hiring more police officers. We have all got to get
    more involved with it, and the reason why we brought both of
    you forward today is to recognize your efforts, volunteer
    efforts of people who are willing to get involved and the
    people around you to get involved. We have got to integrate
    those efforts of people volunteering along with the Police
    Department and all the efforts that they do by putting on the
    badge and going out and putting their lives on the line each
    and every day.
        I also highlight it from the standpoint of we are not
    powerless in this Nation. Too much of the time, I think people
    view themselves as powerless to be able to get anything done. I
    think both of you are testimony that that is not the case. You
    can do something. We can work together and get this situation
    in a better case, and we need to get it much better, but each
    of you have helped in preventing crime and getting it
    decreased. So, for that, I commend both of you and thank you
    for what you are doing.
        In looking at that, Mr. Foreman in particular, you note the
    number of people that you have involved in the Orange
    Coalition. Could you just describe for the people here today
    what they do every night? What do folks go out and do?
        Mr. Foreman. Well, usually, after they get home from work,
    those who work, and those who are retired, after they wake up
    from their evening nap, they usually put the orange hat on
    their head and they head out towards the street corner.
        Senator Brownback. Together? I mean, there will be several
    together or an individual?
        Mr. Foreman. Usually, groups together. We try to make
    doubly sure that there will be no individuals on the street by
    themselves at any given time, while they are wearing the orange
    hat on their head on the street corners.
        We usually have groups--some groups are of different sizes.
    Some may have 20. Some groups may be 30. We have even some
    groups that we have as high as hundreds at one time in a group
    throughout the community, and, usually, what we usually do--
    most areas, we do more standing than walking. We usually stand
    on different corners throughout the community because, you
    know, like I say, as long as you are standing you can see
    everything. As long as you are moving, you are out of sight,
    you are out of mind. So you mean nothing to anyone. So we
    usually stand throughout the community.
        The groups usually have radios that they usually keep with
    every group throughout the community. As a matter of fact, in
    some groups, everybody in the group does have a radio, really,
    though, and we use video camcorders on the street. We use
    cameras. We use everything on the street to deter those who are
    coming to the community to do harm and wrong, and we usually
    set the video camcorders up on the sidewalk within the
    community, as those who come looking for drugs in the community
    are right around--they have to ride around through cameras the
    whole trip throughout the community. So they have a tendency
    not to stay around. They have a tendency to leave, and leave
    quick.
        We found out one thing. With this setup that we utilize,
    most drug markets fall and they fall quick.
        Senator Brownback. What is that?
        Mr. Foreman. Most drug markets, they cease to operate, and
    they case to operate very, very rapidly, really within a few
    days, because we found a long time ago that the average guy
    that is selling drugs needs to sell drugs and need to sell the
    drugs quickly, and he needs to pay his bill for the drugs. He
    needs to pay the bill for the drugs that he has in his
    possession, and if he cannot sell within my community, he has
    to leave. What we do, we stop the customer from getting to the
    guy who is selling drugs. That is our main purpose out there,
    to stop the customer from getting to the drug dealer. We put a
    buffer in between those two. As long as we are there, the
    customer will not come in because most of the customers are
    people like each and every one of us. We are the customers. We
    are working people, work for a living, who make a payroll, and
    once a month, every week, whatever the case may be, these are
    the people who buy drugs.
        These are the people who ride up into people's communities
    where they do not live to buy drugs, and these are the people
    that we put the cameras on. These are the people that ride
    through our cameras on the street, and these are the people who
    ride straight through the neighborhoods and stop buying drugs
    in that particular neighborhood, and 2, 3, 4 days of this, no
    sale by the drug dealer, he cannot operate any longer. He has
    to leave. He must go someplace where he can sell his drugs.
        He owes a bill. He must pay his bill on time. If he does
    not pay his bill on time, he is in trouble, and whoever he owes
    money to is going to deal with him harshly. So he will not stay
    in that community.
        We know we can, wherever we go, within a few days--any drug
    market can fall. We found out one thing, with the help of the
    Police Department, no question about it, with the help of any
    agency that we can get to help, it makes it much easier, but we
    know without the commitment of the people who live in those
    communities, it is not going to happen.
        In most instances, if the people in the community are not
    involved, the police cannot get into that community because
    most of the communities are not open to the Police Department.
    We usually go in and we usually open the community up. The
    police come in and deal with the people once we go in because
    it is easier for us to open it up than it is for the Police
    Department to open it up because, in most cases, most
    communities do not trust them, do not want to deal with them,
    and are very leery of them. So we usually go and open it up,
    and once the Police Department comes in, they usually end up
    with a great working agreement with the people who live in that
    community. They usually get along very well after that.
        We do what we do, and we do it very well, and that is good
    because people--we found out one thing. The great strength in
    fighting crime is people in the communities. We can put 20,000
    police in this city on the street, and they cannot stop it.
    They do not live there. They do not have that great commitment
    that the people who live in those communities have for their
    own community. They do not have that great commitment for a
    person's own son and daughter or grandson and granddaughter as
    a person who lives there do.
        Our police officers come in, and they do a great job, no
    question about that, but the hard-core commitment is still not
    there. And it cannot be there. They live someplace else. They
    have to have a commitment for their own community, and I hope
    they do go and work within their own communities, but at the
    same time, we must have the people in the communities. And the
    best thing about the whole thing, the people in the community
    want to do--they want to work. They have a big problem.
        Most communities, people do not know how to, and we usually
    go in and show them how to. Usually, once you go in and show a
    person how to do it, you cannot stop them from doing it after
    that, no question about it, but you can mention one thing. When
    you go up before what people perceive to be the baddest guys in
    the world, the most heavily armed guys in the world, everybody
    perceives that every kid selling drugs on the street is heavily
    armed or his comrades around him are heavily armed. In a lot of
    cases, it is true, no question about that. They do not be on
    the street naked. That is for sure.
        But at the same time, they are scared to death of the
    people who live there. The people who live in those
    communities, the crooks that operate in those communities are
    afraid of the people. Whenever the people step up, they step
    back every time. Every time.
        We go out on the street. Nobody in the group is of this age
    here. Everybody in the group--well, your age, yes--are older in
    the group, and we have people in the group from 45 all the way
    up through 80. This is the main bulk of the group, no question
    about it. In later years, we have had some younger folks come
    on, but mainly it was old-timers who made it happen, people who
    could not pick a physical fight with anyone at no given time.
    But seven, eight senior citizens walking in a community or
    standing in the community can wipe a drug market out just by
    mere presence along.
        Most people do not know and do not realize that the crooks
    on the street are afraid of them, scared to death of them
    really, providing you do it in a controlled situation and do
    not get yourself in trouble.
        Senator Brownback. That is the point, I guess, that I
    wanted to emphasize with you, too, and I appreciate it, Mr.
    Foreman, that--there is an old saying, and I am paraphrasing,
    that the only way that evil triumphs is for good, not to step
    forward. So, if people just step back and keep back, their
    communities will continue to go down.
        Mr. Foreman. No question.
        Senator Brownback. If they will step forward, they are not
    powerless in this system, and I appreciate you for giving them
    the organization, the vehicle to do that.
        Ms. Oldenburg, I understand you are looking at a new E-mail
    project to track the criminals released from the DC criminal
    justice system. Is that correct?
        Ms. Oldenburg. Well, yes, that is partly it, or at least to
    let people know what is happening. Part of it is just the kind
    of information that we can get out to the community. I mean,
    people on our list--they are constantly saying that it gives
    them a sense of community to be belonging to it, even though it
    predominantly provides them with bad news, but it is a
    phenomena that the more news you have about your community, the
    better armed you feel to protect yourself and be preventive in
    your actions.
        So one of the things that happens in DC is that the street
    officers, the PSA officers operate in the immediate, you know,
    what is happening today, taking care of what is happening
    today.
        Once, for instance, somebody is arrested or even once a
    crime is committed, it moves out of the arena of the PSA, and
    if it is a crime that has been committed, it is all of a sudden
    turned over to a set of detectives who are removed from the PSA
    in large part.
        So the information of what is happening about--we had nine
    homicides in PSA 109 in the last year and a half. We rarely can
    get any information about what the status is of those
    homicides. As far as I know, not one of them has been solved.
    Seven of them are drug-related. So that information sort of
    moves out of our arena. We can go chase it, but it does not get
    to us. So that is one thing.
        The activity moves elsewhere once the crime is committed,
    and the information moves. The other thing is that once an
    arrest occurs and it becomes part of the court system, part of
    the prosecutor's office and through the court system, again,
    there is no tracking of this person being arrested and as they
    go through the process. The prosecutors have a system, but we
    cannot tap into that. So we cannot readily track what is
    happening to the people who get arrested in our community.
        We know they normally get out on personal recognizance once
    they are arrested. So they come right back to the community and
    continue to commit the crimes that they committed before they
    were arrested, waiting for their court hearing on the previous
    crime.
        So we want to be able to track that activity, what happens
    when people get into the court system and the resolution of
    court cases should that occur. We are starting to be better at
    that as a community. PSA 108 and 106 seem to have established
    the sort of connections they need to track a criminal beyond
    the police, better than we have in 109 at this point.
        Senator Brownback. Good.
        Thank you both very much. I also want to thank the Police
    Department for all the work that they do. Crime is going down,
    but we have got a long ways to go to get it in the situation
    that we need to.
        I appreciate the volunteer efforts of a lot of people in
    trying to get that situation better improved as well.
        Mr. Foreman. I would like to say one thing.
        Senator Brownback. Yes, Mr. Foreman.
        Mr. Foreman. Our efforts in the Metro orange-hat group, we
    have not so far wrote one proposal for any money from anyone,
    except for the Heritage Foundation. They forced money upon us,
    and they made us take it. We did not want it, but they made us
    take it, anyway, but other than that, there are no government
    funds. Everything that pertains to the organization is self-
    funded by people who live in those communities, throughout the
    area.
        We are writing up proposals, do not want to--we always say
    as long as it is your problem, take care of your own problem,
    and so we take care of our own problem within our own
    communities, anyway.
        Thank you.
        Senator Brownback. Thank you all very much, and thank you
    all for attending today as well.
        The hearing is adjourned.
        [Whereupon, at 4:08 p.m., the Subcommittee was adjourned.]

                                A P P E N D I X

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