[House Hearing, 105 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
THE OKLAHOMA CITY NATIONAL MEMORIAL
=======================================================================
HEARING
before the
SUBCOMMITTEE ON NATIONAL PARKS AND PUBLIC LANDS
of the
COMMITTEE ON RESOURCES
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
ONE HUNDRED FIFTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
on
H.R. 1849
TO ESTABLISH THE OKLAHOMA CITY NATIONAL MEMORIAL AS A UNIT OF THE
NATIONAL PARK SYSTEM, TO DESIGNATE THE OKLAHOMA CITY TRUST, AND FOR
OTHER PURPOSES
__________
SEPTEMBER 9, 1997, WASINGTON, DC
__________
Serial No. 105-55
__________
Printed for the use of the Committee on Resources
U.S. GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE
45-289 CC WASHINGTON : 1998
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
For sale by the U.S. Government Printing Office
Superintendent of Documents, Congressional Sales Office, Washington, DC 20402
COMMITTEE ON RESOURCES
DON YOUNG, Alaska, Chairman
W.J. (BILLY) TAUZIN, Louisiana GEORGE MILLER, California
JAMES V. HANSEN, Utah EDWARD J. MARKEY, Massachusetts
JIM SAXTON, New Jersey NICK J. RAHALL II, West Virginia
ELTON GALLEGLY, California BRUCE F. VENTO, Minnesota
JOHN J. DUNCAN, Jr., Tennessee DALE E. KILDEE, Michigan
JOEL HEFLEY, Colorado PETER A. DeFAZIO, Oregon
JOHN T. DOOLITTLE, California ENI F.H. FALEOMAVAEGA, American
WAYNE T. GILCHREST, Maryland Samoa
KEN CALVERT, California NEIL ABERCROMBIE, Hawaii
RICHARD W. POMBO, California SOLOMON P. ORTIZ, Texas
BARBARA CUBIN, Wyoming OWEN B. PICKETT, Virginia
HELEN CHENOWETH, Idaho FRANK PALLONE, Jr., New Jersey
LINDA SMITH, Washington CALVIN M. DOOLEY, California
GEORGE P. RADANOVICH, California CARLOS A. ROMERO-BARCELO, Puerto
WALTER B. JONES, Jr., North Rico
Carolina MAURICE D. HINCHEY, New York
WILLIAM M. (MAC) THORNBERRY, Texas ROBERT A. UNDERWOOD, Guam
JOHN SHADEGG, Arizona SAM FARR, California
JOHN E. ENSIGN, Nevada PATRICK J. KENNEDY, Rhode Island
ROBERT F. SMITH, Oregon ADAM SMITH, Washington
CHRIS CANNON, Utah WILLIAM D. DELAHUNT, Massachusetts
KEVIN BRADY, Texas CHRIS JOHN, Louisiana
JOHN PETERSON, Pennsylvania DONNA CHRISTIAN-GREEN, Virgin
RICK HILL, Montana Islands
BOB SCHAFFER, Colorado RON KIND, Wisconsin
JIM GIBBONS, Nevada LLOYD DOGGETT, Texas
MICHAEL D. CRAPO, Idaho
Lloyd A. Jones, Chief of Staff
Elizabeth Megginson, Chief Counsel
Christine Kennedy, Chief Clerk/Administrator
John Lawrence, Democratic Staff Director
------
Subcommittee on National Parks and Public Lands
JAMES V. HANSEN, Utah, Chairman
ELTON, GALLEGLY, California ENI F.H. FALEOMAVAEGA, American
JOHN J. DUNCAN, Jr., Tennessee Samoa
JOEL HEFLEY, Colorado EDWARD J. MARKEY, Massachusetts
WAYNE T. GILCHREST, Maryland NICK J. RAHALL II, West Virginia
RICHARD W. POMBO, California BRUCE F. VENTO, Minnesota
HELEN CHENOWETH, Idaho DALE E. KILDEE, Michigan
LINDA SMITH, Washington FRANK PALLONE, Jr., New Jersey
GEORGE P. RADANOVICH, California CARLOS A. ROMERO-BARCELO, Puerto
WALTER B. JONES, Jr., North Rico
Carolina MAURICE D. HINCHEY, New York
JOHN B. SHADEGG, Arizona ROBERT A. UNDERWOOD, Guam
JOHN E. ENSIGN, Nevada PATRICK J. KENNEDY, Rhode Island
ROBERT F. SMITH, Oregon WILLIAM D. DELAHUNT, Massachusetts
RICK HILL, Montana DONNA CHRISTIAN-GREEN, Virgin
JIM GIBBONS, Nevada Islands
RON KIND, Wisconsin
LLOYD DOGGETT, Texas
Allen Freemyer, Counsel
P. Daniel Smith, Professional Staff
Liz Birnbaum, Democratic Counsel
C O N T E N T S
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Page
Hearing held September 9, 1997................................... 1
Statements of Members:
Chenoweth, Hon. Helen, a Representative in Congress from the
State of Idaho, prepared statement of...................... 49
Faleomavaega, Hon. Eni F.H., a Delegate in Congress from
American Samoa............................................. 3
Prepared statement of.................................... 4
Hansen, Hon. James V., a Representative in Congress from the
State of Utah.............................................. 1
Prepared statement of.................................... 2
Istook, Hon. Ernest J., Jr., a Representative in Congress
from the State of Oklahoma................................. 9
Prepared statement of.................................... 10
Lucas, Hon. Frank, a Representative in Congress from the
State of Oklahoma.......................................... 5
Prepared statement of.................................... 8
Watts, Hon. J. C., Jr., a Representative in Congress from the
State of Oklahoma, prepared statement of................... 7
Statements of witnesses:
Butzer, Hans E., Designer, Oklahoma City Memorial Foundation
Design Team................................................ 23
Prepared statement of.................................... 45
Finnerty, Maureen, Associate Director for Park Operations and
Education, National Park Service........................... 14
Prepared statement of.................................... 41
Johnson, Robert M., Chairman, Oklahoma City Memorial
Foundation................................................. 25
Prepared statement of.................................... 44
Inhofe, Hon. James M., a Senator in Congress from the State
of Oklahoma, prepared statement of......................... 6
Keating, Governor Frank, a State Senator from Oklahoma,
prepared statement of...................................... 7
Marrs, Gary B., Fire Chief, Oklahoma City, Oklahoma.......... 37
Prepared statement of.................................... 48
Norick, Ronald J., Mayor, Oklahoma City...................... 24
Prepared statement of.................................... 43
Pouland, John, Regional Administrator, Region 7, General
Services Administration.................................... 16
Prepared statement of.................................... 42
Rogers, Don, Former Building Manager, A.P. Murrah Federal
Building, Oklahoma City, Oklahoma.......................... 36
Prepared statement of.................................... 47
Welch, Emmett E. ``Bud'', Resident, Oklahoma City, Oklahoma.. 34
Prepared statement of.................................... 46
Additional material supplied:
Letter of Understanding...................................... 71
Murrah Federal Building Memorial Task Force, Memorial Mission
Statement.................................................. 98
Text of H.R. 1849............................................ 51
The Oklahoma City National Memorial.......................... 66
HEARING ON: H.R. 1849, TO ESTABLISH THE OKLAHOMA CITY NATIONAL MEMORIAL
AS A UNIT OF THE NATIONAL PARK SYSTEM, TO DESIGNATE THE OKLAHOMA CITY
TRUST, AND FOR OTHER PURPOSES
----------
TUESDAY, SEPTEMBER 9, 1997
House of Representatives, Subcommittee on National
Parks and Public Lands, Committee on Resources,
Washington, DC.
The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10 a.m. in room
1324, Longworth House Office Building, Hon. James V. Hansen
(chairman of the subcommittee) presiding.
STATEMENT OF THE HONORABLE JAMES V. HANSEN, A REPRESENTATIVE IN
CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF UTAH
Mr. Hansen. Good Morning. The Subcommittee on National
Parks and Public Lands will come to order.
Today we will receive testimony on H.R. 1849, The Oklahoma
City National Memorial Act of 1997. The bill was introduced in
the House of Representatives by our colleague, Mr. Lucas of
Oklahoma, to establish the Oklahoma City National Memorial as a
unit of the National Park System, to designate the Oklahoma
City Memorial Trust, and for other purposes.
H.R. 1849 recognizes the national impact and importance of
the horrible act of domestic terrorism that occurred on April
19, 1995, the bombing and destruction of the Alfred P. Murrah
Federal Building in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, resulting in the
deaths of 168 men, women, and children. The incident and its
aftermath brought the Nation together to respond to this
assault on our governmental institutions and our people, but
particularly to mourn with the thousands of families in
Oklahoma City that were directly affected by the deaths of
these 168 individuals, the injuries to hundreds of others who
survived the blast, and the concerns of the entire Federal work
force who felt they might still be targets in random terrorist
attacks.
[Bill H.R. 1849 may be found at end of hearing.]
Mr. Hansen. Today, we will hear testimony that will
reaffirm the American Spirit. We will witness the courage of
individuals directly affected by this tragedy, and be inspired
by the approach that the citizens of Oklahoma have undertaken
to encourage the passage of this legislation we are
considering.
There are many things of importance to say about this
legislation, and as this hearing progresses this morning our
distinguished witnesses will convey the need for this Oklahoma
City National Memorial. Significantly, the Memorial Mission
Statement, developed by the 350-member Murrah Federal Building
Memorial Task Force, will serve as the cornerstone to this
hearing, and to the eventual dedication of the Oklahoma City
National Memorial. It states, ``We come here to remember those
who were killed, those who survived and those changed forever.
May all who leave here know the impact of violence. May this
Memorial offer comfort, strength, peace, hope and serenity.''
We are aware that the National Park Service now supports
the establishment of the Oklahoma City National Memorial as a
unit of the National Park System, but continues to have strong
reservations about the establishment of the Oklahoma City
Memorial Trust. This Subcommittee is interested in assuring
that this partnership among the Federal, state, and local
governments and the private sector is fostered. This approach
to funding, administration, and interpretation of the Oklahoma
City National Memorial may well be a future model for the
addition of some units to the National Park System. The
Subcommittee is encouraged to know that the National Park
Service and the Oklahoma City Memorial Foundation have
discussed the possibility of signing a Cooperative Agreement to
carry out the intent of H.R. 1849.
I look forward to the testimony we will receive this
morning. I will recognize Mr. Lucas as the first witness, after
members of the Subcommittee have been recognized for any
opening statements they may have.
I recognize Mr. Faleomavaega, my distinguished colleague,
the Ranking Member of this Subcommittee.
[The statement of Mr. Hansen follows:]
Statement of Hon. James V. Hansen, a Representative in Congress from
the State of Utah
Good Morning. The Subcommittee on National Parks and Public
Lands will come to order.
Today we will receive testimony on H.R. 1849, The Oklahoma
City National Memorial Act of 1997. The bill was introduced in
the House of Representatives by our colleague, Mr. Lucas of
Oklahoma, to establish the Oklahoma City National Memorial as a
unit of the National Park System, to designate the Oklahoma
City Memorial Trust, and for other purposes.
H.R. 1849 recognizes the national impact and importance of
the horrible act of domestic terrorism that occurred on April
19, 1995; the bombing and destruction of the Alfred P. Murrah
Federal Building in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, resulting in the
deaths of 168 men, women, and children. The incident and its
aftermath brought the Nation together to respond to this
assault on our governmental institutions and our people, but
particularly to mourn with the thousands of families in
Oklahoma City that were directly affected by the deaths of
these 168 individuals, the injuries to hundreds of others who
survived the blast, and the concerns of the entire Federal work
force who felt they might still be targets in random terrorist
attacks.
Today, we will hear testimony that will reaffirm the
American Spirit. We will witness the courage of individuals
directly affected by this tragedy, and be inspired by the
approach that the citizens of Oklahoma have undertaken to
encourage the passage of this legislation we are considering.
There are many things of importance to say about this
legislation, and as this hearing progresses this morning our
distinguished witnesses will convey the need for this Oklahoma
City National Memorial. Significantly, the Memorial Mission
Statement, developed by the 350-member Murrah Federal Building
Memorial Task Force, will serve as the cornerstone to this
hearing, and to the eventual dedication of the Oklahoma City
National Memorial. It states, ``We come here to remember those
who were killed, those who survived and those changed forever.
May all who leave here know the impact of violence. May this
memorial offer comfort, strength, peace, hope and serenity.''
We are aware that the National Park Service now supports
the establishment of the Oklahoma City National Memorial as a
unit of the National Park System, but continues to have strong
reservations about the establishment of the Oklahoma City
Memorial Trust. This Subcommittee is interested in assuring
that this partnership among the Federal, state, and local
governments and the private sector is fostered. This approach
to funding, administration, and interpretation of the Oklahoma
City National Memorial may well be a future model for the
addition of some units to the National Park System. The
Subcommittee is encouraged to know that the National Park
Service and the Oklahoma City Memorial Foundation have
discussed the possibility of signing a Cooperative Agreement to
carry out the intent of H.R. 1849.
We look forward to the testimony we will receive this
morning. I will recognize Mr. Lucas as the first witness, after
members of the Subcommittee have been recognized for any
opening remarks.
I recognize Mr. Faleomavaega, my distinguished colleague,
the Ranking Member of this Subcommittee.
STATEMENT OF THE HONORABLE ENI F.H. FALEOMAVAEGA, A DELEGATE IN
CONGRESS FROM AMERICAN SAMOA
Mr. Faleomavaega. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman,
and Members of our Subcommittee, along with the rest of the
world, I stood in shocked silence on April 19, 1995, as I
watched the TV news accounts of the bombing of the Alfred P.
Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City. My first thoughts
were for all the people in the building. At first, I saw people
streaming out with little more than scrapes and bruises,
thinking maybe the building was empty, or maybe the children in
the day care center were at a city park far away. But seeing
the destruction, my mind knew of the carnage that would be. The
building was filled with people and about 168 innocent victims
lost their lives. Just as we were trying to grasp the tragedy
before us, we were forced to face the realization that this
horrendous act was carried out by an American and the victims
selected solely because they worked for the Federal Government.
Mr. Chairman, this incident in Oklahoma City also
demonstrated another forum of ugliness in our society today.
The media was on a feeding frenzy and our investigative
organizations immediately started targeting the homes and
residences of Americans who happened to be of Arab descent. To
think that any act of terrorism is to be associated with the
Arab community is wrong. We should always guard against this
kind of stereotyping and generalization.
Mr. Chairman, my thoughts were then and continue to be with
the families and friends of those killed or wounded in the
blast. To lose a loved one under any circumstance is painful,
but to have it happen through such a random and cowardice act
must be almost unbearable. It is, therefore, extremely
appropriate that a memorial be established at the scene of the
attack and supported by the Federal Government.
Mr. Chairman, in the interests of time, I would like to
submit the remainder of my statement. I look forward to hearing
from our witnesses, especially the gentleman from Oklahoma, my
good friends and colleagues, Congressman Istook, who will be
testifying this morning.
[The statement of Mr. Faleomavaega follows:]
Statement of Hon. Eni F.H. Faleomavaega, a Delegate in Congress from
the Territory of American Samoa
Mr. Chairman, and Members of our Subcommittee, along with
the rest of the world, I stood in shocked silence on April 19,
1995 as I watched the TV news accounts of the bombing of the
Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City. My first
thoughts were for all the people in the building. At first, I
saw people streaming out with little more than scrapes and
bruises, thinking maybe the building was empty, or maybe the
children in the day care center were at a city park far away.
But seeing the destruction, my mind knew of the carnage that
would be. The building was filled with people and 168 innocent
victims lost their lives. Just as we were trying to grasp the
tragedy before us, we were forced to face the realization that
this horrendous act was carried out by an American and the
victims selected solely because they worked for the Federal
Government.
Mr. Chairman, this incident in Oklahoma City also
demonstrated another forum of ugliness in our society today.
The media was on a feeding frenzy and our investigative
organizations immediately started targeting the homes and
residences of Americans who are of Arab descent. To think that
any act of terrorism is to be associated with the Arab
community is wrong, and we should always guard against this
kind of stereotyping and generalizations.
My thoughts were then and continue to be with the families
and friends of those killed or wounded in the blast. To lose a
loved one under any circumstance is painful but to have it
happen through such a random and cowardice act must be almost
unbearable. It is, therefore, extremely appropriate that a
memorial be established at the scene of the attack and
supported by the Federal Government.
I agree with the recommended themes developed by the
memorial task force which spent a year talking and listening to
people about a fitting memorial site. As recommended, the site
should be a place of remembrance of both victims and survivors
as individuals. It should bring peace to the visitor along with
spirituality and hope. The cherished children need their own
place within the memorial designed for their size and their
ability to learn. Further, the memorial should be as a comfort
to any visitor, and provide recognition for all those who
responded to help those in need. Finally, the memorial needs to
be a place of learning for all who visit so the tragedy is
never to be forgotten.
I want to welcome our colleagues who have come here to
testify this morning including Frank Lucas who introduced the
bill and Jim Inhofe and Ernest Istook who are here to speak
about the legislation. I further welcome all the witnesses and
especially those who traveled here from Oklahoma to be with us.
Earlier this summer President Clinton congratulated Hans
and Torrey Butzer on their winning design for the memorial. I
look forward to hearing from them as well.
It is clear that the intention is for this legislation to
move swiftly through the house. A similar bill has already
passed the Senate. I have been notified that this bill is
already scheduled for full Committee mark up tomorrow. I
support this memorial but would caution against allowing our
support for creating a proper memorial causing us to pass a
bill in haste. I think it is important to listen to the
witnesses today and see what suggestions they may have to make
creation and management of the memorial as easy as possible.
This important legislation should set up a process whereby both
Federal and local interests work together to ensure a
successful memorial. It is up to us to make sure that the
implementation legislation is correct. It would be a disservice
to all those who suffered loss at the Murrah Building to do
anything less.
I look forward to hearing from our witnesses.
Mr. Hansen. Thank you. We have a vote on the floor. Let me
recognize Mr. Hefley, and following his remarks it would be my
suggestion that we stand in recess for a brief time while we
vote and then come back and will take the witnesses as soon as
possible. Mr. Hefley?
Mr. Hefley. Mr. Chairman, I do not have any prepared
remarks, but let me just say this. As Mr. Istook and Mr. Lucas
know, I am from Oklahoma City. My home is in Oklahoma City and
my family is in Oklahoma City.
I felt particularly keenly about this particular act of
terrorism because I do not think I have a family member or a
friend in Oklahoma that was not directly and personally
affected by this. They either had--my mother-in-law had a
friend who sang with her in the church choir--or they had a
relative. Our farmer friend from--Oklahoma had a neighbor who
had gone down just to check his Social Security that morning.
I was affected very personally by this. I was on the
grounds in front of the Murrah Building shortly after the
blast. I just happened to go down that way. I used to work out
at the Y right across the street that had the boarded-up
windows from the blast. And to look at that building firsthand
after the blast, it was much worse, as all of you who were
there, I know. They even depicted it on television--it was a
horror scene on television.
So, I think a memorial is perfectly appropriate, and I look
forward to us planning together what kind of a memorial this
should be. I do have some questions about how it--I hope the
witnesses will provide those answers. For instance, are we
going to put a unit of the Park System there with personnel? Or
this a cooperative relationship where Oklahoma would handle the
day-to-day management of it? Those kind of questions I hope
will be answered. But I am fully in tune with the idea that
there ought to be some kind of a memorial so that we never
forget this and so that the horrors of it will be brought home
to people, and it may help to deter. I do not know. But I look
forward to this hearing.
Mr. Hansen. Thank you. We will stand in recess briefly. We
urge members to vote and hurry back and we will go to the
witnesses.
[Recess.]
Mr. Hansen. The hearing will come to order. Our first
witness is the Honorable Frank Lucas, who is chief sponsor of
the bill.
STATEMENT OF THE HONORABLE FRANK LUCAS, A REPRESENTATIVE IN
CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF OKLAHOMA
Mr. Lucas. Thank you, Mr. Chairman and Ranking Member and
Members of the Committee, for the opportunity to testify today
before you regarding H.R. 1849, the Oklahoma City National
Memorial Act of 1997.
Certainly the losses and struggles that resulted that day
on April 19, 1995, the explosion in front of the Alfred P.
Murrah Federal Building, they resulted from a public attack
that was shared by the heartland community, the Nation and, I
believe, the world.
My office was less than a block and a half away from that
ill-fated building. Certainly it is both gratifying and a bit
disheartening to realize that much of my legislative agenda
during my short career here in the U.S. House has been shaped
by such an evil act, and that certainly is what brings me here
today.
Given, I believe, the national and international impact and
reaction, the Federal character of the site of the bombing, the
significant percentage of the victims and survivors who were
Federal employees, a National Memorial designation is highly
appropriate. The Memorial Foundation, as I understand it, in
this bill will not accept a penny of Federal funding unless it
is matched dollar for dollar by private donations. The
Foundation is asking for a one-time appropriation of $5
million.
I think that it is important to recognize the unique
significance of this memorial. This National Memorial will be
one of the few memorials that memorializes and honors not only
those who died but those who are still living. And certainly a
memorial honoring the living brings a unique set of
circumstances in determining how the site should be properly
planned and interpreted while ensuring the wishes of those
still living in Oklahoma City.
Directed by the President, this legislation presented
before you today creates a workable balance between the
Oklahoma City Memorial Trust and the National Park Service.
Both the National Park Service and non-Park Service personnel
will staff the grounds. All public comment, policy planning and
design issues will be made by the members of the board of
directors of the Oklahoma City National Memorial Trust, which
will be established by the legislation.
I believe that it has always been the intention of the
Oklahoma City Memorial Foundation to work in cooperation with
the National Park Service to properly manage the Oklahoma City
National Memorial. The winning design for the Memorial, which
will be fully explained by its architect today, I think will be
a fabulous beacon drawing mankind to the site that will remind
us of our nation's greatness.
Earlier this summer the Senate passed the companion
legislation by a large vote and on the 13th of August President
Clinton declared his support for the National Memorial.
If I could, Mr. Chairman, I would like to take, I think,
this moment to introduce into the record written statements
regarding H.R. 1849 by Senator Inhofe, Mr. Watts, and Governor
Frank Keating.
Mr. Hansen. Without objection.
[The statement of Senator Inhofe follows:]
Statement of Hon. James M. Inhofe, a Senator in Congress from the State
of Oklahoma
Mr. Chairman, Members of the Subcommittee, as a former
House Member, I am both pleased and honored to have the
opportunity to present my views today on the Oklahoma City
National Memorial Act of 1997 (H.R. 1849). As an original
cosponsor of the Senate companion legislation, I certainly
appreciate the leadership efforts Representative Lucas has
demonstrated on this important piece of legislation.
As you are aware, the Senate unanimously approved the
Oklahoma City National Memorial Act of 1997, S. 871, on July
31. I was extremely pleased at the pace in which the Senate
acted upon this legislation. It was just a few short months ago
that this legislation was just an idea. Now, we stand on the
verge of enacting this legislation to remember both the victims
and survivors of this terrible tragedy.
On April 19, 1995, the bombing of the Alfred P. Murrah
Federal Building shook the conscience of United States. As a
result of this cowardly terrorist's attack on innocent people,
168 men, women, and children lost their lives. Few events, if
any, have shaken the American public's view of themselves and
confidence in the American way of life. The vivid memories and
images of the tragedy will remain forever etched in our minds
for years to come. However, despite the tremendous loss of life
and innocence, the American spirit has shown remarkable
resilience.
The individuals who lost their lives and those whose lives
were altered as a result of the bombing deserve to be
remembered as national heroes. These innocent victims arose
each day and went to work to do the work of the American
people. These were working men, women, and innocent children,
not the elected figureheads, and represent the true backbone of
the American government. As individuals, they must be honored
and remembered. Therefore, it is fitting that the Memorial has
been designed to honor them in a very visible way. Their lives
serve as a testament to what this country is, what it can be,
and what it will be.
In addition to the immediate victims of the bombing, we
must also recognize the law enforcement officials, the
emergency rescue personnel, and the countless volunteers who
rushed to Oklahoma during our hour of greatest need. The
memorial's ac-
knowledgment of not only the victims, but the others involved
in the rescue process, is artfully done to remind us all that
we are part of a nation that cares and responds to those in
need.
The establishment of the memorial is not only appropriate
but an important part of teaching future generations of
Americans what we are all about. This memorial will serve as a
constant reminder to us that the price of our freedom is
eternal vigilance against those who would rob us of our sense
of security through acts of senseless terrorism.
I am pleased that throughout the entire process of
establishing this memorial that many of those who have been
involved in the formation of this idea at the local and state
level have been given the opportunity to express their views.
Additionally, earlier this year at a Senate field hearing, the
survivors and the families of those who tragically lost their
lives were given the opportunity to share their personal
experiences. Through this painstaking process we will have
ensured that the names of those involved in this terrible
tragedy will not be lost to history, but rather will command a
place of honor and respect in our nation's history.
In closing, I would again like to thank the Subcommittee
for holding this hearing on the Oklahoma City National Memorial
Act of 1997. Furthermore, I would like to urge the House of
Representatives to take up this bill that justly remembers the
victims, survivors, and volunteers of the Oklahoma City
Bombing.
[The statement of Mr. Watts follows:]
Statement of Hon. J. C. Watts, Jr., a Representative in Congress from
the State of Oklahoma
I would like to thank Chairman Hansen for holding this
hearing today on the Oklahoma City National Memorial Act. I
applaud Congressman Lucas's efforts in introducing this bill
and realizing the importance of this legislation to all the
people of Oklahoma.
April 19th, 1995 was a terrible day for the State of
Oklahoma. The whole world witnessed what minutes before seemed
like an unthinkable act of terrorism. We, as a state and a
country, pulled together as one to help all of those in need.
Everyone was awed by the outpouring of love and generosity
during this time of tragedy in our state.
A national memorial for the victims of the Oklahoma City
bombing will help continue the healing process in Oklahoma.
This will serve as a central place where all people, who were
either victimized or lost a family member or friend, can go to
remember not only the day of the tragedy but also the love and
support offered by the people of this great Nation.
We must not forget the Homeric actions that occurred on the
morning of April 19th, 1995. This memorial will allow us to
reflect on that day and all those who were affected by this
tragedy. It will serve as a memorial of hope, showing future
generations of Americans how we as country came together during
a time of unimaginable tragedy.
Thank you again Chairman Hansen for having this hearing.
All of Oklahoma thanks you and Congressman Lucas for your
efforts in the passage of this legislation.
[The statement of Governor Keating follows:]
Statement of Governor Frank Keating, a State Senator from Oklahoma
I am proud to write in support of H.R. 1849 by
Representative Lucas.
The April 19, 1995 terror bombing of the Murrah Federal
Office Building in Oklahoma City was an assault on our Federal
Government. It claimed 168 lives and changed many more. The
national response to this tragedy was unprecedented; assistance
came to Oklahoma from all 50 states, and for the days and weeks
after the bombing, the site of the Murrah Building was the
focus of the nation's attention.
After the bombing's rubble was removed, the site was
enclosed by a chain link fence which has become a makeshift
memorial--a place of remembrance which draws hundreds of
visitors each day. Those visitors also come from all across our
country. They leave mementos on the fence, or simply stand and
pray. I have only seen one other place with the emotional
impact of this site, the Vietnam Memorial in Washington.
The Oklahoma City Memorial Foundation has selected a design
for the permanent memorial to be constructed at the Murrah
site. Work is expected to begin on the memorial within the next
12 months, with completion and dedication sometime in 1999.
This memorial will include outdoor facilities, remembrances of
those who died and those who were directly affected by the
bomb, and a museum. The hundreds of visitors who come to the
site each day will swell to thousands after the memorial is
constructed. This place has already become a national shrine;
in the serve as a reminder of the costs of violence and hate,
and as an affirmation of all that is good in our land.
H.R.1849 would transfer the site to the management of the
National Park Service, in anticipation of the completion of the
memorial. This is a fitting and appropriate step, especially
given the willingness of the Oklahoma City Memorial Foundation,
the Oklahoma Historical Society and state and local government
to cooperate in creating, building and operating the permanent
memorial. We have an opportunity to encourage close and
beneficial cooperation among Federal, state and local
authorities, both private and public, by approving this
resolution.
I urge its adoption.
Mr. Lucas. And let me say once again that I appreciate the
opportunity to have this hearing before the Subcommittee and
for the Members of this Committee to consider this piece of
legislation. I think it is truly a unique opportunity to create
a memorial that may weld new concepts in planning and design
and interpretation and utilization, because that is what it is
all about. I thank the Members of Congress. We serve a purpose
of representing our constituencies and we do what--and with
that, Mr. Chairman, I would be glad to answer any possible
questions you may have.
[The statement of Mr. Lucas follows:]
Statement of Hon. Frank D. Lucas, a Representative in Congress from the
State of Oklahoma
Mr. Chairman, Members of the Subcommittee, I thank you for
the opportunity to testify before you today. I am proud to have
introduced H.R. 1849, the Oklahoma City National Memorial Act
of 1997. This historical legislation is a huge step in the
healing process for the people of my state and the entire
nation.
When a massive bomb exploded in front of the Alfred P.
Murrah Federal Building on April 19, 1995, it shook Oklahoma
City's foundation and shocked the nation. Few events in the
century have rocked American's perception of themselves and
their institutions, and brought together the people of our
great nation with the intensity of this devastating crime.
Although these losses and struggles are personal, and you will
certainly hear of some of these experiences today, they
resulted from a public attack and are shared by a heartland
community, the nation, and the world.
One of my district offices was less than a block and a half
away from that ill-fated building. When I saw the damage to my
office, a block and a half away from ground zero, the disbelief
that I shared with my staff will never be forgotten. Mr.
Chairman, colleagues, as you can well imagine there was no
legislative road map to follow in the wake of this tragic
event. It is both gratifying and a bit disheartening to realize
that much of my legislative agenda during my short career in
the House has been shaped by such an evil act. Over the past
years I have had the privilege and opportunity to help ease the
burden Oklahoma City has beared as a result of this devastating
tragedy. And this is what brings me here today.
As will be explained in greater detail by others present,
this memorial will encompass the Murrah building site, Fifth
Street between Robinson and Harvey and the sites of the Water
Resources and the Journal Record buildings. Both National Park
Service and non-park service personnel will staff the grounds.
All public comment, policy, planning, and design issues will be
made by the Members of the Board of Directors of the Oklahoma
City National Memorial Trust, which will be established by this
legislation.
Given the national and international impact and reaction,
the Federal character of the site of the bombing, and the
significant percentage of the victims and survivors who were
Federal employees, a National Memorial designation is highly
appropriate. My legislation heralds the spirit, determination,
and hope of Oklahomans and all Americans who have persevered in
the wake of such a tragic event. The Oklahoma City Memorial
will be established, designed, managed and maintained to
educate present and future generations, through a unique
public/private partnership, to work together efficiently and
respectfully in developing a national memorial relating to all
aspects of the April 19, 1995 bombing in Oklahoma City.
The character of Oklahomans continues to be on display in
their asking the Federal Government for financial assistance on
this meaningful project. Although the Memorial will need
approximately $24 million to be established, Oklahomans are
asking that legislation establish the Oklahoma City National
Memorial as a unit of the National Park System and authorize
only $5 million in Federal funding. Furthermore, the memorial
fourth will not accept a penny of Federal funding unless it is
matched dollar for dollar by private donations. In addition to
the proposed Federal money, the Oklahoma City Memorial
Foundation is seeking $5 million from the Oklahoma State
Legislature and $14 million in private donations.
The love and respect Oklahoma City has received, since
being thrust into the national spotlight, was most evident in
the vast participation and outpouring during the international
design competition. The winning design, which will be fully
explained by its architect today, will be a fabulous beacon
drawing mankind to a site that will remind us of our nation's
greatness. This nation, as has been proven many times in the
past, will not be defeated by forces that seek to divide us.
Leaders from across the country have already stepped
forward in a bipartisan effort to support this National
Memorial. The Senate has already shown its support by passing
the companion legislation S. 871 on July 31. On August 13,
President Clinton also showed his support for the National
Memorial by inviting the Oklahoma City Memorial Foundation to a
ceremony at the White House endorsing the memorial design. At
this ceremony, President Clinton stated, ``The tragedy was a
national one, and the memorial should be recognized and
embraced and supported by the nation.'' He further stated,
``And we have now a memorial that I hope will be part of our
national park system.'' I wholeheartedly believe this memorial
deserves to be designated a National Memorial.
I would like to thank Chairman Hansen and members of the
Committee for the opportunity to testify before you today.
Mr. Hansen. Thank you. We appreciate your testimony. Mr.
Istook?
STATEMENT OF THE HONORABLE ERNEST J. ISTOOK, JR., A
REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF OKLAHOMA
Mr. Istook. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate the
chance to be here to support Congressman Lucas' legislation.
When we look at the site of the Oklahoma City bombing and
why it is unique, it is because two things have come together
that normally are very different. The same spot which
demonstrated the very worst in man also became the spot where
the very best was shown in an outpouring of service, aid, work,
comfort and love. To have these extremes of the worst and of
the best occur in the same spot, the same event, is unique.
You can go anywhere in America or in the world and find a
spot of some tragic event. Perhaps we cannot build a monument
to every tragedy, but what happened on April 19, 1995, and the
days following gripped our country so strongly that it is
universally agreed that this memory and its lessons must be
preserved and never forgotten.
In my own generation, very few events stand out as
occasions when everyone remembers where they were and what they
were doing at that moment: There was the assassination of
President John F. Kennedy; the moment when man first stepped on
the moon; the tragic explosion of the space shuttle Challenger;
and now the bombing of the Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma
City. It has taken its place as a universally shared
experience, embedded forever, not only in our memories but also
in our hearts. What happened in Oklahoma City, and the response
by its citizens and by all of America, must be preserved and
must be remembered and we must learn from it.
The outpouring of love and tears, help, care and
determination set a powerful example for the entire country and
for the world. They saw a community which truly believed that
we are our brother's keeper. In memorializing this event, we do
not remember just an attack or an act of terrorism. We remember
grief being met with compassion, need being met with service,
hurt being met with comfort, and continuing needs being met
with an outpouring of help that still flows strong today.
A lady made a statement to me about the bombing that I
think sums it all up. As she told me, ``Our faith is greater
than their sin.'' In this memorial, we aspire to create a
lasting and enduring monument to that eternal truth.
I appreciate the support of the Committee and hope that we
all recognize how totally unique this is, a monument not just
to an act of terrorism but a monument to hope and the uplift
that we all need in our hearts.
[The statement of Mr. Istook follows:]
Statement of Hon. Ernest J. Istook, Jr., a Representative in Congress
from the State of Oklahoma
When we look at the site of the Oklahoma City bombing, and
why it is unique, it is because two things have come together
that are normally very different. The same spot which
demonstrated the very worst in man also became the spot where
the very best was shown, in an outpouring of service, aid,
work, comfort and love. To have these extremes of the worst and
of the best occur from the same event is totally unique.
You can go anywhere in the United States, or in the world,
and find the spot of some tragic event. Perhaps we cannot build
a monument to every tragedy, but what happened on April 19,
1995, and the days following gripped our country so strongly,
it is universally agreed that this memory and its lessons must
be preserved and never forgotten.
In my own generation, very few events stand out as
occasions when everyone remembers where they were and what they
were doing at that moment: There was the assassination of
President John F. Kennedy; the moment when man first stepped on
the moon; the tragic explosion of the space shuttle Challenger,
and now the bombing of the Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma
City. It has taken its place as a universally-shared
experience, embedded forever, not only in our memories but also
in our hearts. What happened in Oklahoma City, and the response
by its citizens and by all America, must be preserved and
remembered.
The outpouring of love, tears, help, care and determination
set a powerful example for the entire county, and for the
world. In memorializing this event, we do not remember just an
attack, or an act of terrorism. We remember grief being met
with compassion, need being met with service, hurt being met
with comfort, and continuing needs met with an outpouring of
help that still flows strong today.
A lady made a statement to me about the bombing that sums
it all up. As she told me, ``Our faith is greater than their
sin''. In this memorial, we aspire to create a lasting and
enduring monument to that eternal principle.
Mr. Hansen. Thank you very much. We appreciate the
testimony of our good colleagues. And if you will stay just a
moment and see if there are any questions for you. Gentleman
from--any questions or comments?
Mr. Faleomavaega. Mr. Chairman, I have no questions, just a
comment. I thank both the gentlemen for their testimony. I
think there is a question of whether or not there should be a
park or a memorial, should be under the control of the city--
the residents of Oklahoma City or whether the National Park
Service should have a dominant role in the management of this--
if you would like to comment on that?
Mr. Lucas. I truly think that it is appropriate that we go
about this the way the bill is drafted. Clearly in the $24
million that will be required to design and create and staff
this facility, $19 million of those $24 million will come from
state and local and private sources, which gives it a unique
character.
Because of the spontaneous coming together of the task
force to help create this plan in the beginning, I think that
they have shown a most unique capacity to do what is
appropriate in this case. I can say with confidence, though,
that I believe that the Trust, the Foundation that would come
from this bill will do everything within their capacity and
they--that can be addressed momentarily from the other
witnesses in the panel. But I think they will do everything
within their capacity to develop and work in accord, a strong
relationship with the National Park Service. And based on my
experience with the Park Service, I have great expectations
that they will work just as diligently in the other direction.
And if they anything, we may well lay some new ground with this
piece of legislation, for how to address the important national
events and experiences.
Mr. Istook. I wanted to echo Congressman Lucas' comments,
but I think the plan for the construction and operation, if you
will, very much parallels what actually occurred in handling
this disaster. Certainly we had units from all over the
country, disaster assistance and urban rescue squads that came
in from many places in the country. We had the Federal roles,
FEMA, and disaster assistance. But, nevertheless, as--Fire
Chief Marrs, who is here, he was involved in directing efforts
there. Nevertheless, it was still all coordinated through
Oklahoma City.
And I think Oklahoma City showed unique capabilities and
unique capacity, and I believe the legislation tracks that very
model. It follows a model that was used so effectively in
working with the disaster itself. And I think it is really
suitable that the model for how the memorial will function will
parallel that design.
Mr. Faleomavaega. Perhaps the closest precedent that we
have established in setting up National Memorials or Nationals
Parks has been an example that we have set up in the Presidio
in San Francisco. It is the thinking of both gentlemen and of
the vast majority of the people in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, are
you very comfortable in establishing this memorial? And you
want to set up a partnership with the National Park System but
do you feel that your people will be glad to take care of this
issue in such a way that the Park Service can help, but it is
not necessary that they have to control the entire effort?
Mr. Istook. I think, Mr. Faleomavaega, the--you know, just
what went into working on the design of the memorial--Chairman
Johnson is here from the committee and Mayor Norick, who
oversaw the establishment of the method. The involvement has
been so great, from the community and from the citizens of
Oklahoma City, and it is, frankly, important to the community
that they continue to show their ability, their capacity, to
show how our community cares for one another, to try to do
things for ourselves. I think that is very important to the
community.
Mr. Faleomavaega. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Hansen. Mr. Hefley?
Mr. Hefley. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I think the previous
questioner got the answer that I wanted. There does not seem to
be any dissension on this within Oklahoma, that you have
everybody pretty much behind this effort?
Mr. Lucas. Absolutely. I would say initially there was some
thought that it should be a state or local site, but then we
considered, as we have all considered back home, the national
implications. This was in fact a Federal site, a Federal
Building. This was an attack that took the lives of an
incredible number of Federal employees. This tragedy was an
assault on the people of the entire United States. So, that, in
addition to the national and international media exposure and
the outpouring of warmth and help from people all across the
Nation and around the world. This is a site of national
significance and scope. And the route that we are attempting to
go on this bill is the most appropriate, I feel. I think--
Oklahoma City to reflect that national significance.
Mr. Hefley. Well, you know, an image was created for
Oklahoma City as a result of this tragedy, both good and bad;
the good being the way Oklahoma City rallied to meet this
emergency and the bad being such things as the Connie Chung
statement, rather than praising the firefighters in Oklahoma
City and those who around the country who came to help she said
that: well, what is the matter, does not Oklahoma City have any
firefighters of its own? I hope that was one of the things that
contributed to her demise on network television. I do not know.
But I think it is very appropriate then that the people of
Oklahoma should have a major say in creating the image for the
memorial, if they would like. And the Chairman of this
Committee and Members of this Committee have worked very hard.
We are struggling with the idea and realizing that the Federal
Government cannot do everything, but we want more and better
parks. We want to recognize the important events of history the
way we should. And the idea of private, state, local, and
Federal partnerships to do this in certain cases seems very
appropriate. And I think you were right, Mr. Lucas, when you
mentioned that this might be an example that would be utilized
in other places.
I would say this though, that I think the Trust would be
very shortsighted if they did not develop a close relationship
with the National Park Service. After all, they are the people
that have been in this business, and by and large doing a very
good job in this business, for a lot of years. And so I would
hope that that would be a very, very close relationship.
Mr. Chairman, I yield back the balance of my time.
Mr. Hansen. Thank you. The gentlelady from Virgin Islands?
Ms. Christian-Green. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I really do
not have any questions. I guess I would join you in welcoming
my colleagues and commending Mr. Lucas for sponsoring the bill
to memorialize and honor the memory of all of the victims of
the Oklahoma City bombing--from this terrible tragedy and--
experience--I look forward to your testimony. I hear that that
is the direction in which you are going in. I commend you both.
Thank you.
Mr. Hansen. Thank you. Gentleman from Tennessee, Mr.
Duncan? Gentleman from Puerto Rico?
Mr. Romero-Barcelo. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I also join my
colleagues here in commending Mr. Lucas and Istook, our
colleagues, for bringing this up here. And, also, I remember
that day's happening. In Puerto Rico we felt as though it had
happened right there at home. And we feel--this is, as you say,
a national monument, not only a monument for Oklahoma but for
all the Nation for the world to see. I will be pleased to do
it. Thank you.
Mr. Hansen. Thank you. The gentleman from Minnesota, Mr.
Vento?
Mr. Vento. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I was not here for your
opening statement, just direct my comments to the authors. I
was interested in legislation. There is a law that deals with
the designation, construction and maintenance of memorials and
very few of the--little of the testimony today addresses itself
to that. It actually provides for the construction from private
funds and the maintenance, in fact, funds set aside for the
continued maintenance.
Really this case is extraordinary, the Federal role. I
agree certainly with the designation. I agree with providing
some support, perhaps even more than what has been indicated
here, but I appreciate and recognize the tremendous
contribution and interest of the citizens of Oklahoma
nationwide in terms of supporting this.
I think the question here in terms of the corporation is--
first question to be asked: is the Park Service capable of
managing and doing this traditional role? You are asking for
Park Service designation, but then you--the Park Service
actually to effect and protect the integrity and deal with the
nation's parks.
I understand, Mr. Chairman, there is no controversy over
the design of the memorial. There is a pretty good consensus
about that. So the question--my question is with--I do not
expect any of you to answer them, because I think that they are
questions that really need to be answered probably by all of
those participating today. But, you know, is this the deal
that--who is going to decide if there are any modifications to
it? Is this going to be still in the hands of the Park Service
or Congress? The operation costs, the maintenance costs, who is
going to decide what--how they are treated in terms of the
integrity of this particular memorial. Who is going to be
responsible for the law enforcement? It may seem a like small
thing, but it becomes very hard when you have to, you know, get
an individual who decides that they want to take a rest on one
of the benches for the evening.
So, these are the types of questions that, you know, in
terms of who is going to be managing this and what the
relationship is. Which I think these go well beyond the fact of
GSA/FEMA, the interagency agreement. It really needs to be
something that we need to put forth in the legislation in terms
of directing the Park Service, who does--in terms of writing,
and then come up with some agreement. I do not--I do not
think--but at the end of the day if it is going to be a
National Park designated monument? I mean that this is not San
Francisco. It is the only corporation we have. In fact, we have
done some very hard projects in terms of rehab projects, like
the Statue of Liberty, dealing with foundations. So, there are
plenty of models for drafting or drawing on private sources and
giving a pretty good voice, a pretty good working relationship
with the Park Service.
I agree that--establishes a law, a law that deals with the
designation of memorials, the construction and maintenance of
them, and I suggest you look to it rather than the corporation
model, which frankly was an unusual circumstance for Presidio
and something you might use for, as I say to my friend Mr.
Lucas, as a--corporation. As a private-government corporation,
these have extraordinary powers. I think that it is not
probably something that has been fully explored here in terms
of what the issues are that we might be involved in. This is
actually setting up another entity of government. For those of
us that are concerned about too much government, you might be
concerned about the state of the local government and the
Federal Government. Do we need another entity?
And so I just leave you with those thoughts and I hope that
my colleagues and the many others that will be addressing these
will be discussing the issues that I raised. I think it is a
good and worthy project and it has support. I think most of us
here--the policy fact is that we are establishing this very
important legislation.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Hansen. Thank you, Congressman. We welcome our two
colleagues from Oklahoma. We appreciate having you with us.
The first panel will be Maureen Finnerty, Associate
Director for Park Operations and Education, National Park
Service, and John Pouland, Regional Administrator in Region 7,
General Services Administration. Thank you both. The Park
Service?
Are you folks able to handle your testimony in 5 minutes?
We always give 5 minutes on the--it is like a traffic light. It
works exactly the same way. Meaning go, yellow, and red means
shut it off. I am sure we can accommodate you. We will hear
from the Park Service, first.
STATEMENT OF MAUREEN FINNERTY, ASSOCIATE DIRECTOR FOR PARK
OPERATIONS AND EDUCATION, NATIONAL PARK SERVICE
Ms. Finnerty. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you for the
opportunity to appear before you to address H.R. 1849, a bill
to establish the Oklahoma City National Memorial as a unit of
the National Park System and to create a government corporation
known as the Oklahoma City Memorial Trust to manage the
memorial. First and foremost, let me say that we support the
goal of establishing the memorial as a unit of the National
Park System. The significance of the tragedy of the bombing of
the Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City, and the meaning
and implications of this event for our nation, compel the
establishment of this memorial as a visible and prominent
national shrine. While we support the establishment of this
memorial, we have significant concerns over certain aspects of
its management as proposed in H.R. 1849 and strongly recommend
an alternative management arrangement. In raising these
concerns, we share the sponsors' goals for expeditiously
creating an excellent, well-managed national memorial that
appropriately communicates and reflects the meaning of the
Oklahoma City bombing to the nation.
If enacted, H.R. 1849 would create a new unit of the
National Park System in Oklahoma City--a memorial to recognize
the pro-
found changes brought to so many lives on the morning of April
19, 1995. The legislation would direct the National Park
Service, upon the request of the Oklahoma City Memorial Trust,
to provide technical assistance to the Trust and, along with
other Federal agencies, to carry out day-to-day visitor service
programs at the memorial.
While the circumstances compelling the establishment of a
national memorial to the Oklahoma City tragedy as a unit of the
National Park System are extraordinary, the approach to
managing this memorial should benefit from proven National Park
Service models. Because the National Park Service was not part
of the process that developed the Intergovernmental Letter of
Understanding, dated October 28, 1996, we could not provide our
suggestions at that time. We appreciate the opportunity
provided by the legislative process to share our views now
about the most appropriate and effective role for each
organization and governmental entity involved in the memorial.
Mr. Chairman, we support the objective that this new unit
of the National Park System be managed and administered in
close cooperation with, and with the full involvement of, local
citizens and entities. As proposed, however, the legislation
provides no role to the National Park Service in the management
or administration of this new park unless the Oklahoma City
Memorial Trust requests its involvement for certain limited
purposes. Essentially, the legislation provides complete
control over this new park unit to the Oklahoma City Memorial
Trust, a wholly owned government corporation.
One significant issue for reconsideration is the
establishment of the Oklahoma City Memorial Trust as a wholly
owned government corporation. In a 1995 report prepared by the
Congressional Research Service for the Senate Committee on
Governmental Affairs, a government corporation was defined as
``an agency of the government, established by Congress to
perform a public purpose, which provides a market-oriented
service and produces revenue that meets or approximates its
expenditures.''
The only example of the use of a government corporation in
the National Park System is the Presidio Trust, established by
legislation last November. The Presidio of San Francisco
presented a tremendous management challenge. The military
transferred an enormous complex with many buildings to the
National Park Service. In that case, the National Park Service
needed the expertise of people familiar with business and real
estate in the city of San Francisco who could effectively lease
buildings and provide other mechanisms to assure that the
Presidio's buildings were protected. While entrepreneurial
revenue-generating goals are appropriate for the Presidio, we
question whether they are as appropriate for this memorial.
It was clear to us from the testimony given at the field
hearing in Oklahoma City that it is the wish of local citizens
and the State of Oklahoma to retain a strong level of local
control and involvement in all aspects of the memorial's
operation and interpretation. We believe that the legislation
could best achieve this by directing the National Park Service
to manage the memorial in cooperation with the Oklahoma City
Memorial Foundation, which could operate without the Federal
restrictions that would be imposed on a government corporation.
The general guidance for this cooperative effort could be
outlined in legislation and the specific aspects of the
partnership developed through cooperative and interagency
agreements.
We would be pleased to provide examples of public laws for
existing National Park System units which involve partnerships
with municipal or private institutions, as well as examples of
cooperative and interagency agreements at existing National
Park System units.
We look forward to working closely with the delegation and
the Committee staff in developing a legislative concept which
will work well for the Oklahoma City Memorial Foundation, the
National Park Service, and all of those who have been affected
by this tragic event. Thank you.
[The statement of Ms. Finnerty may be found at end of
hearing.]
Mr. Hansen. Thank you. Mr. Pouland?
STATEMENT OF JOHN POULAND, REGIONAL ADMINISTRATOR, REGION 7,
GENERAL SERVICES ADMINISTRATION
Mr. Pouland. Thank you, Mr. Chairman and Members. My name
is John Pouland. I am Regional Administrator of the General
Services Administration for the Southwest Region which includes
Oklahoma City.
I am here today to support an effort which will help the
people of Oklahoma and the rest of the Nation to continue the
healing process. I am here today to support H.R. 1849.
As the President stated during the Ceremony on behalf of
the Memorial Foundation last month, ``The Memorial design is
elegant. It is symbolic. It manages to focus on this act of
unconscionable violence and still honor the valor of the people
of the community and the lives of the victims in a setting of
reflection and peace that should leave people, when they go
through it, feeling stronger rather than weaker.''
The people of the General Services Administration were
personally affected by the suffering, involved in the rescue
and emergency management efforts, and assisted in the re-
establishment of operational capabilities. Now we are proud to
help with the healing process. The Murrah Federal Building was
part of the GSA-owned Federal inventory and the child care
center was part of a nation-wide effort to create child care
for Federal workers. Tragically, two of our employees died in
the attack and 20 others were injured. Our regional employees
were particularly distraught since we knew many of the tenants,
our customers, from the various agencies housed in the
building.
Immediately following the bombing, GSA employees assisted
emergency teams with the evacuation of the building. We
established a security perimeter around the building for safety
precautions and to expedite aid. Within hours of the explosion,
GSA established a command center in Oklahoma City and located
space for the Oklahoma City Disaster Field Office for the FEMA
and the Department of Justice. By the next morning,
approximately 50 of our GSA personnel were onsite assisting in
critical areas. At the same time, the Federal Building and
Courthouse, one block south of the Murrah Building, and the
U.S. Post Office and Courthouse, two blocks to the south,
received immediate assistance to maximize safety and restore
normal operations.
GSA was able to respond immediately in various ways to the
Oklahoma City disaster. We either provided services directly or
coordinated with other agencies and response groups. These
circumstances were a true test of GSA's preparedness systems
and procedures.
Since the tragedy, the site of the destroyed Murrah
Building was cleared and stands ready to be transformed from a
site of pain and sorrow to a site of remembrance and healing.
GSA fully supports the establishment of the memorial and is
prepared to transfer the site to an appropriate Federal agency,
or local entity if that is deemed appropriate. At the same
time, GSA is planning to construct a new Federal building in
Oklahoma City, as authorized by the Administration and Congress
and in cooperation with the city.
The establishment of a National Memorial is the right thing
to do. GSA supports the establishment of the Memorial and would
like to work with the Oklahoma delegation, the National Park
Service, and other agencies and entities to find the
appropriate way to manage the memorial.
This concludes my remarks. Thank you for having me. I look
forward to answering any questions.
[The statement of Mr. Pouland may be found at end of
hearing.]
Mr. Hansen. Thank you both for your testimony. Mr. Pouland,
H.R. 1849 provides for the transfer of the portion of the
former Murrah Federal Building Trust at no cost. Does GSA feel
that the intent of this transfer will allow GSA the flexibility
your agency needs to continue the ongoing operations and
maintenance of the underground parking garage at this site?
And, furthermore, do you believe that GSA can enter into a
Memorandum of Understanding and Cooperative Agreement with the
Trust, the National Park Service, the U.S. Marshal Service, and
the Administrative Office of the U.S. Courts to effectively
manage your adjoining two Federal buildings near the Oklahoma
City Memorial?
Mr. Pouland. My answer to both of those questions is yes,
sir. We do, we can, and we will. The issue of adjoining
property line, our parking garage, and how we will manage that
longterm and how we may have to--frankly, future generations,
hopefully not mine, may have to deal with renovation or
construction issues on that parking garage site, and it will be
next to the Memorial. We feel confident that we can do MOU's,
Memoranda of Understanding, work with the Foundation to get the
appropriate flexibility we need to prepare ourselves for those
contingencies in the future. I would not want to be in a
situation where 50 years from now it was deemed that that
parking garage had a higher and better use and the issue of
access to that land and what we might do there. I would not
clarify it at this time, but we think we can do that with an
agreement with the Foundation, with the city, with the
community, an we will continue to work with them in every
respect to address any concerns that we have now and that might
occur in the future, get those in writing, have a clear
understanding of what the relationship is and deal with it
appropriately.
Mr. Hansen. Would the GSA or the National Park Service,
especially your counterpart, Mr. John Cook, the Regional
Director of the National Park Service in Denver, Colorado, who
assured all the necessary Memorandum of Understanding and
Cooperative Agreements are executed in a timely fashion? The
Subcommittee feels that there is a tremendous opportunity for
Federal agency partnership at this proposed National Memorial
and feels that GSA has a role at this memorial, the National
Park Service, and the Oklahoma City Trust.
Mr. Pouland. Yes, sir. I will, and the agency will, look
forward to working with the National Park Service. The National
Park Service and the Department of Interior are excellent
customers of ours, and we view them as such and we will work
with them in every way possible to ensure full participation,
full understanding, and we will certainly continue to work with
the local community in every respect.
Mr. Hansen. Finally, Ms. Finnerty, how does the National
Park Service respond to this cooperative partnership with GSA
and the Oklahoma City Trust? Do you believe that this will
assist in the day-to-day management and success of the
memorial?
Ms. Finnerty. Well, certainly we would look forward to
working in cooperation under cooperative arrangement with all
involved in this, both at the local and Federal level, and I
think that would be important for the successful management of
the site. However, we still have some concerns about the
legislation as drafted and the overall role given specifically
to the government trust to administer this as a unit of the
National Park System in accordance with the laws and
regulations. That role in specific on the Trust----
Mr. Hansen. Further questions?
Mr. Faleomavaega. Yes, Mr. Chairman. I think there seems to
be a problem here in defining exactly the difference between a
National Memorial and a National Park. Is there a distinction
between these two? It is my understanding there are 27 National
Parks that we have. Because of that designation--there is also
a difference in funding as well as administration. Am I correct
on this?
Ms. Finnerty. Well, we have--as you know, Congressman, we
have 376 units in the National Park System, and I think about
45 or 50 of those carry the designation of National Park. The
other 325 have a variety of names, being seashores, recreation
areas, historic sites and memorials, mines, the whole range.
Generally all the units, though, are managed in accordance with
the Organic Act of the National Park Service, and then more
specifically in accordance with the particular laws established
these Federal units. We really do not make a distinction of a
memorial or a national park. There are specific in legislation
establishing--will certainly provide----
Mr. Faleomavaega. We hear what President Clinton did this
year. Because I ask all the Members to join me in supporting
the effort to establish a memorial on the site of the bombing,
so apparently the Administration is agreeable to this concept.
And I wanted to ask Ms. Finnerty: I understand from your
testimony that there were no consultations between the National
Park Service and the initiative of the Oklahoma City, those
involved with the State of Oklahoma?
Ms. Finnerty. That is correct. This letter that I referred
to from--dated in October 1996, the Park Service was not
involved in any of those discussions and that letter actually
was signed by two Federal representatives, GSA and FEMA, and
with no consultation with the Service in preparation. And it
has only been fairly recently that Intergovernmental Letters
came to light for us and we were able to look at it.
Mr. Faleomavaega. Could it have been because it was an
honest oversight? Maybe they thought that maybe it was not
necessary for the National Park Service to be involved in the
memorial?
Ms. Finnerty. Well, I cannot speak to that, Congressman.
Certainly the letters we have read, it does make a lot of
references to the National Park Service and a role--of having a
role in the memorial, but we were not in on those discussions.
Mr. Faleomavaega. It is my understanding that the Senate
has already passed its version of this National Memorial?
Ms. Finnerty. That is correct.
Mr. Faleomavaega. How long was the National Park Service
notified, at least for purposes of commenting on the proposed
legislation? Were you given months or a couple of months or a
couple of weeks to comment?
Ms. Finnerty. I think it was July of this year when the
Senate hearing was held and----
Mr. Faleomavaega. So you really had no opportunity really
to make any--proposed legislation.
Ms. Finnerty. And my understanding is, if you will correct
this if it is wrong, that at that time I am not even sure we
knew about the Intergovernmental Letter. And a lot has come to
light during the last couple of months, so we have gotten more
information about how this whole thing is put together. And I
believe our testimony in July, we essentially did not take a
position because we were looking forward to working with these
entities. We now of course support the addition to the National
Park System, but still have some real concerns about who
ultimately is going to ensure that the site is managed in
accordance with Park Service laws.
Mr. Faleomavaega. The train keeps moving, and the hope is
that the National Park Service will be there. How do you
propose a discussion? We have dealt with some issues with the
National Park Service--maybe 10 years for a National Park--and
maybe this monument--I think this is probably a bigger
concern--delays.
Ms. Finnerty. I do not think there needs to be inordinate
delays. We certainly are willing to work with the City staff,
all those parties. We understand this is on a fast track and we
think it could be done fairly quickly, and we would just like
to see some language in there that ensures the Park Service
will ultimately be responsible for ensuring that the Park
Service laws, and those kinds of things, are followed. The
Trust is not going to have any experience in that area. So, we
think there are a number of models that can be looked at and do
not view this as being necessarily----
Mr. Faleomavaega. Can you at least propose--to our
friends----
Ms. Finnerty. We will be happy to--we shared some of those
already from the Regional Office in Denver.
Mr. Faleomavaega. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Hansen. We will have to recess. We have a Member in the
House of Representatives who is not getting his way and is
posing numerous frivolous motions. This is another motion to
adjourn and we will have to go over and vote on it, and then we
will be back just as quickly as we can.
[Recess.]
Mr. Hansen. The Committee will come back to order. The
panel of witnesses come back to the table. We call on Mr.
Lucas. Do you have questions, Mr. Lucas?
Mr. Lucas. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I guess really, Mr.
Chairman, I only have a couple of questions, one of which I
would like to address to our Associate Director of the Park
Service.
You commented earlier about the Park Service not being a
part of this process developing the Intergovernmental Letter
dated October 28th of 1996. Do you remember or have any
knowledge perhaps of whether there was any contact made with
the task force or any of the entities in Oklahoma City during
the process prior to that?
Ms. Finnerty. Congressman, I was not until just a few
minutes ago on break, when Mr. Johnson indicated to me that
they had made some contacts, I guess with the Park Service in
Denver. That was the first that we were aware of any of that
and--here in Washington, and we do not know who that was. We
had no knowledge of that here. And, of course, after the
legislation was being put together and drafted, our legislative
offices was never involved in that. So, as I said, at break I
just found out for the first time. But certainly we in
Washington, and our legislative office here, were not
approached at all during the discussions on this.
Mr. Lucas. Thank you. And one other question. Do you agree
with, perhaps because of the population being represented in
this unique set of circumstances, that there are many features
about this circumstance that are unique?
Ms. Finnerty. Well, I think no question. I would agree with
that.
Mr. Lucas. And would you anticipate that should this
legislation become law, President signed, should it become law,
would you anticipate that the Park Service would do their dead
level best to the Intergovernmental Agreement, or whatever
avenues are necessary to try to implement whatever laws that
would be signed in?
Ms. Finnerty. There is no question about that. We certainly
will. We will participate and be helpful and try to make this
work. We would feel, as I said before, a little more
comfortable if we had a little stronger language in the bill, a
bit more clearly articulated our role to help manage this in
accordance with our laws and regulations.
Mr. Lucas. Thank you. I really have no other questions at
this time, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Hansen. Thank you. Mr. Vento?
Mr. Vento. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Ms. Finnerty,
apparently this legislation suggests that the Trust will in
fact administer the 1916 Organic Act, is that correct?
Ms. Finnerty. That is how we read it, Congressman.
Mr. Vento. Well, that is how it is written. So, I mean, you
know, I think that that is--do we have any other examples in
the Park Service where we have corporations or other entities
other than the Park Service implementing the Federal laws,
basically the Organic Act, other than the Park Service.
Ms. Finnerty. No, sir, we do not. We have the Presidio
model, of course, which you referenced earlier, which----
Mr. Vento. I am familiar with that, but they are not
implementing the 1916 Organic Act. They are a corporation----
Ms. Finnerty. That is correct.
Mr. Vento. [continuing] with a specific--is not there a
Memorandum of Agreement and a stipulation between the Park
Service and corporation as to what their role would be?
Ms. Finnerty. Yes, there is. Presidio.
Mr. Vento. Is there any Memorandum of Agreement between the
Park Service and this proposed trust and corporation as to what
the role of the corporation or the Park Service would be?
Ms. Finnerty. For this particular legislation?
Mr. Vento. Yes.
Ms. Finnerty. I think it calls for the possibility that
agreements could be entered into. I think that is specified in
the legislation. But, again, it is not mandated and it would be
at the beck and call of the Trust.
Mr. Vento. For instance, is it not accurate that it is
completely up to the corporation or the trust concerning
whether the Park Service would have any role in this particular
memorial?
Ms. Finnerty. That is correct.
Mr. Vento. So, in fact it may be that under this agreement
that there is no presence of the Park Service at a memorial
which, in fact, by the Letter of Agreement, is going to be
inconsistent and modelled after the 1916 Organic Act? It is
possible there would be no Park Service presence?
Ms. Finnerty. Certainly it is possible that--because we--
the Park Service could have a role, a limited role, if asked.
And----
Mr. Vento. Why do you think that is important that the Park
Service be present?
Ms. Finnerty. Well, I think it is going to be extremely
difficult for a government trust. You know, we have a lot of
experience in managing parks. We have been at it for a long
period of time. We have a lot of experience in opposing various
legislative mandates, the Code of Federal Regulations, these
kinds of things. A government trust is not going to have any of
that kind of experience and I think it is going to be very
difficult as they grapple with issues like law enforcement,
they grapple with issues like the issuance of First Amendment
permits. I mean, you know, it goes on and on and on. But that
is going to be very difficult, if not impossible, a role, I
think, for the trust to play. And those are the kinds of things
that we are really concerned about.
Mr. Vento. In other words, whether this is exclusive or
joint jurisdiction or, you know, completely operated by the
corporation--these are important questions. Is there any reason
that this legislation, if you know, is not inconsistent with
the Memorial Act laws that we have today? Is not it true that
most of the Memorials we have have a private group associated
with it or a public group associated with it that are
responsible, nonprofit groups raising the money for the
memorial and for providing a budget or an escrow amount or the
maintenance operation of it--or maintenance of it, is that
correct?
Ms. Finnerty. Yes. We have a number of models that exist
right now in the system of a variety of proper arrangements
that deal with issues of funding, that deal with issues of
management. There is a number of those kinds of things that we
look at that we think might be a good model for this.
We certainly understand that the local community and the
citizens of the State of Oklahoma want to be very actively
involved in managing this memorial, and that can happen. That
can happen without any problem.
Mr. Vento. Well, I mean in terms of selection of the site.
But what about the interpretation of it? Nobody knows what that
interpretation is going to be. Is there a general management
plan to be developed for this particular memorial before it is
law?
Ms. Finnerty. The law does not speak to that.
Mr. Vento. Well, but does the general law? The 1916 Organic
Act said every Memorial has to have a general management plan?
Ms. Finnerty. I do not believe it is quite that specific,
but certainly as a policy we do prepare planning documents for
the use of the System, yes.
Mr. Vento. And then it has to be guided in terms of
resource protection, other factors that are part of what goes
into this? You said you do not know whether the 1916 Organic
Act provides for a general management plan?
Ms. Finnerty. Well, it certainly provides for us to
administer units of the system in accordance with, you know,
laws and regulations. And the general management planning
process, we certainly require that as part of our policy and
that kind of thing. So, it is under the 1916 Act, yes, we would
have to look at a lot of those planning documents and that kind
of thing.
Mr. Vento. Very often is not there a controversy or issues
that arise with regards to what the interpretation of a certain
site might be?
Ms. Finnerty. Oh, absolutely. Yes.
Mr. Vento. So, I mean, maybe through the problems in terms
of what the memorial--I do not know much about the operation
and maintenance of that. I mean, I know that there are going to
be 168 chairs and there are going to be some other glass
chairs, which sounds very interesting and very profound, but I
do not know what the maintenance is of it. I do not know what--
I guess it has undergone some scrutiny in terms of that. I
assume it has. There is generally not a controversy about that,
and I accept that. And it is good that that issue is out there
so--beyond that, how you interpret this site is another matter.
In terms of--very often we have found, for instance, at the
Vietnam Veterans Memorial, that individuals bring materials and
leave them there.
Ms. Finnerty. That is correct.
Mr. Vento. And so we have archives full of various types of
pieces of memorabilia which have been brought to that
particular site. And so these are the types of issues that
arise as to what the disposition of that material is, whether
it should be--but I suggest there may be some. So, I think
there are a lot of questions that have to be answered by those
that are proposing this in terms of establishing a corporation.
Some of those questions are answered in the legislation, but
most often they are not. I can just tell you that I think that
in terms of obtaining the private funding and the enthusiasm
and control in terms of this, I think that the model that was
selected here raised lots of questions in my mind. The purpose
of it I completely agree with, in terms of private funding and
the corporation having some freedom, but I do not know why it
could not be under the nonprofit. We have Nature Conservancy
and--various pieces of the plan, designate a piece of it as--we
need to articulate what the responsibilities are much more
clearly in terms of the Park Service and in terms of the 1916
Organic Act than what has been done.
I think some clarifying language--I understand that this is
going to be marked up tomorrow. And I think that these
questions are not answered in the testimony that I have read
from anyone today. I would be happy to yield. My time has
expired, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Hansen. Without objection.
[The information referred to may be found at end of
hearing.]
Mr. Lucas. I appreciate the gentleman for sharing them.
Just ask for a moment that the gentleman--I think that the
testimony following in the next three panels there will be some
opportunities to get on into those various questions, that they
have been aggressive in working with since the 19th of April,
since the Task Force has been set up, and I think the gentleman
will be pleasantly surprised by the careful thought that has
gone into this and the responses that will be given. I thank
the gentleman.
Mr. Vento. I will apologize to the gentleman in advance. I
looked at just--I read it--preread some of it, and if I will
not be able to stay for this, I hope that the markup of this
might be able to facilitate or answer some of these questions.
So, certainly tomorrow--certainly, Mr. Chairman, that this is
your decision, but I--thank you.
Mr. Hansen. I think Mr. Vento has raised some important
questions, not the least of which I think I touch on, and that
is in the emotion of the moment, now, and the emotion is still
very heavy, I think, on the Nation and particularly anyone
connected with Oklahoma, we can plan grand schemes of things.
But we have a motion--it has not been easy to raise the private
money and that kind of thing. Then who is going to take it on
and continue it? And I think--and in what manner? I think that
is kind of what you were leading to in a way, Mr. Vento. I
think that you need to deal with those questions. I do not
think--I think all of us here want this memorial to succeed,
and I think that is exactly what you were getting at.
Well, thank you very much, panel, and we will go to the
next panel.
The Mayor of Oklahoma City, Ron Norick; Robert Johnson,
Chairman of the Oklahoma City Memorial Foundation; and Hans
Butzer, who is the Designer of the Memorial. We welcome the
panel. You folks have 5 minutes exactly----
Mr. Norick. No, that would be fine.
Mr. Hansen. I appreciate it very much.
STATEMENT OF RONALD J. NORICK, MAYOR, OKLAHOMA CITY
Mr. Norick. Mr. Chairman and Members of the Subcommittee, I
am Ronald J. Norick, Mayor of the city of Oklahoma City and I
want to thank you for allowing us to be here today.
As you know, the bombing of the Alfred P. Murrah Federal
Building in downtown Oklahoma City on April 19, 1995,
devastated the lives of Oklahoma City residents in a way unlike
any other event in the history of the United States. I will
focus my testimony on the impact the bombing had on Oklahoma
City and why the proposed legislation is so important to our
city.
This legislation will not only benefit Oklahoma City, but
it will benefit all Americans. While this event occurred in
Oklahoma City, it was an attack on all Americans. It was an
attack on all the people who believe in the principles of this
nation. People from every state in the Nation as well as
thousands of people from outside the United States have visited
the memorial site. Hundreds of people can be found at the site
every day in all kinds of weather, at all times of the day and
night.
This event touched people not just in the United States,
but around the world. Thousands of items were sent to my office
from people from around the world. It has been over 2 years
since the bombing. Visitation and inquiries about the site have
not declined. Thousands of people visit the site weekly. More
than a million people have visited the site since the bombing,
leaving pieces of them at the chain link fence that surrounds
the building footprint. They have left hundreds of thousands of
items, including messages, toys, flowers and shirts off their
backs as they try to express their sympathy, their compassion
and somehow understand that this could have happened anywhere
in the United States.
This legislation granting National Park status will
recognize the sacred nature of the site and its significance to
all Americans. This site of a tragic event has become a special
place in our nation's identity. It cannot and not and should
not be forgotten. This is why the city strongly supports this
legislation.
Other than the loss of life and the accompanying impact on
the lives of those touched by the loss, the bombing of the
Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building tore the heart out of our
city. More than 300 structures were damaged and 12 buildings
had to be demolished in the heart of our downtown. Rebuilding
has been difficult as property owners and tenants, forced out
of the area by damage to their properties, have been reluctant
to reestablish in downtown Oklahoma City. Many have not had the
finances. Special funding provided by Congress in 1995 has been
absolutely vital to our rebuilding process. The recovery has
been slow and there still remains a very visible hole in the
city's fabric.
The Oklahoma City Memorial, in conjunction with the passage
of this legislation, will do much to heal that hole. It sends a
powerful message to the people of Oklahoma City and to the
Nation that the healing process is well underway, and that
investment in the renewal of downtown makes good economic and
civic sense.
The redevelopment of several of the larger buildings most
heavily damaged by the bombing will now be possible. The city
can also begin planning for traffic control, parking,
streetscape, sidewalk improvements, directional signals, and
other public improvements required to cater to the restructured
business district and visitors to the site. Much of this
planning has been on hold as the city and the property owners
have struggled with the task of making this area whole again.
That hold will be lifted by this legislation. Private investors
who have been holding back until they know the future of the
area can also begin their reconstruction plans.
The city strongly supports this legislation establishing
the Oklahoma City National Memorial Trust. It is vital to those
most directly affected by the events of April 19, 1995, that
the story of this tragic event be managed locally. The Trust is
the best vehicle for doing so.
Let me say again the tragedy that befell Oklahoma City on
April 19, 1995, was not a tragedy for all of us in Oklahoma, it
was a tragedy that affected the whole nation. The effect of
that tragedy is felt no less today, over 2 years later. It is
only fitting that a tragedy of such national significance be
recognized as such, and the legislation I speak in support of
here today provides that recognition. The city of Oklahoma City
strongly supports this legislation and we will be happy to do
whatever is necessary to support its passage.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
[The statement of Mr. Norick may be found at end of
hearing.]
Mr. Hansen. Thank you for your testimony. Mr. Johnson?
STATEMENT OF ROBERT M. JOHNSON, CHAIRMAN, OKLAHOMA CITY
MEMORIAL FOUNDATION
Mr. Johnson. Thank you, Mr. Chairman and Members of the
Committee. My name is Robert M. Johnson. I am Chairman of the
Oklahoma City Memorial Foundation, serving as a volunteer
pursuant to the June 1995 appointment by Mayor Ron Norick. I
appreciate the opportunity to testify before you today.
In April 1995, just days following the worst terrorist
attack on American soil, the President and Mrs. Clinton visited
Oklahoma, and while there they said, ``All of you, the brave
people of Oklahoma, made it clear to the entire nation and all
the world that those who sought deeds of terror to divide us
brought us closer together.'' And he said, ``We will be by your
side until the work is done.''
Just 1 month following the bombing, President Clinton told
the Nation that in the months ahead the Nation would look to
Oklahoma for the vision and inspiration to appropriately
memorialize America's tragedy.
In response, Mayor Norick appointed the 350-member Murrah
Federal Building Memorial Task Force, known today as the
Oklahoma City Memorial Foundation.
The Foundation embraced the challenge of memorializing a
tragedy in America so unique in our history. We democratized
the memorial process by making it open and inclusive. There
have been no political, socio-economic or other barriers to
participation. Most importantly, we have encouraged, solicited,
and given great deference to participation by family members
and survivors in all aspects of this memorial process. This
memorial process has been transforming and has contributed to
the healing of our city, our state, and our nation and, most
importantly, to those most directly affected by the bombing. As
one family member has said: through the memorial process chaos
has been transformed into hope and unity.
Incredibly, amidst all the emotions of the grieving process
and the healing process, all votes on critical issues have been
unanimous, including the one in support of the Memorial Mission
Statement, adopted after months of input from family members of
survivors and other caring people around the world. The opening
lines of the Mission Statement are:
``We come here to remember those who were killed,
those who survived and those changed forever. May all
who leave here know the impact of violence. May this
Memorial offer comfort, strength, peace, hope and
serenity.''
The Mission Statement requires that the Oklahoma City
National Memorial consist of an interactive learning museum
together with an institute dedicated to the prevention and
mitigation of terrorism and finally a remembrance component.
This last element was designed by Hans and Torrey Butzer and
Sven Berg and was selected through an open international design
competition which drew entries from all 50 states and 23
countries. This design was chosen on the first secret ballot of
the Selection Committee by unanimous vote. It was subsequently
approved by a joint meeting of the Families and Survivors
Committee and the Board of the Foundation, again by unanimous
vote.
By its very nature, as an attack on the American Government
and our public servants, the April 19, 1995, bombing was an
attack on each American. Although the bombing occurred in
Oklahoma City, by no means should this be memorialized as an
Oklahoma City tragedy or even a State of Oklahoma tragedy. The
national and international impact make it clear that this is an
American tragedy. Equally important is the Federal character of
the site of the attack and the significant number of those who
died and the survivors who were innocent Federal public
servants.
The Oklahoma City National Memorial will memorialize
America's Tragedy by first preserving the memory of those who
died and the survivors and the valor of rescue and recovery
workers, by emphatically confirming the unification of the
spirit of all Americans in the wake of disaster and by sending
a powerful message to the world of the senselessness of
terrorism as a means of effecting societal or government
change.
Let me clarify a couple of items regarding our contact with
the National Park Service. We are here today because in the
input process that led to the adoption of the Mission
Statement, it was very, very clear that the strong, strong
sentiment was that no one does it better in managing a memorial
project than the National Park Service. They must be involved.
We contacted them in the process. One of the co-chairs of our
government liaison committee contacted the Denver office of the
Park Service in the process of developing the Intergovernmental
Letter of Understanding, which was executed in October of last
year. The response from the Denver office was that until the
designation as a unit of the National Park Service or other
designation relating to the Park Service was made, that the
Park Service could not enter into a Letter of Understanding.
That contact, however, led us to an association with the
National Park Service to develop an archives program, which we
are using, with regard to the approximate one million items
that we have in our archives, that would make our archives
collection suitable for a unit of the National Park System and
in compliance with the guidelines for the National Park
Service.
By no means have we ever thought about excluding the
National Park Service from this. We need them. And by no means
should there ever be a thought that there will not be a
cooperative agreement. I pledged to the National Park Service
that we would work a cooperative agreement out, and have done
so in both in conversations with them and by correspondence.
Following the development of the bill that was submitted
earlier to the Senate, I contacted John Cook in the Denver
office of the National Park Service and discussed the personnel
that would be involved. And we had correspondence in that
regard. And we built into our budget a supervisory interpreter,
two interpreters, two seasonal rangers, and a curator for the
National Park Service, and those numbers are built into our
operating budget. We want the Park Service to be involved. And
I am confident that, given the bill as it stands, I believe it
is implicit that we would enter into an agreement with them,
and I commit to you that we would.
Let me just close by saying that although the response to
the Oklahoma City tragedy reminded the world that Americans are
capable of great compassion, selflessness and unity when
tragedy strikes, by no means is our response complete. We ask
for your participation in this memorialization effort by
enacting H.R. 1849. Thank you.
[The statement of Mr. Johnson may be found at end of
hearing.]
Mr. Hansen. Thank you, Mr. Johnson. Mr. Butzer?
STATEMENT OF HANS E. BUTZER, DESIGNER, OKLAHOMA CITY MEMORIAL
FOUNDATION DESIGN TEAM
Mr. Butzer. Thank you. Torrey Butzer--my wife--myself and
our design assistant, Sven Berg, who is still in Berlin, thank
you very much for the opportunity to present this design to
you.
Torrey and I will never forget the morning we heard on
Voice of America radio while we were working in Berlin, that
the Alfred P. Murrah Building in Oklahoma City had been bombed.
Although we were an ocean away, we felt shocked that such a
tragedy could occur on American soil. We also believed it to be
our duty to make some sort of contribution to the recovery
efforts.
The design we are presenting to you today is based
primarily on the introductory paragraph of the Memorial
Foundation's Mission Statement:
``We come here to remember those who were killed,
those who survived and those changed forever. May all
who leave here know the impact of violence. May this
memorial offer comfort, strength, peace, hope and
serenity.''
With these words, the experience of visiting the Oklahoma
City Memorial begins. Whether traveling along Harvey, Robinson
or Fifth Street, the first site of the Memorial Complex is of
the gates of time. Within the urban fabric, these gates provide
a powerful identity for the Memorial Complex and clearly
indicate that this portion of Fifth Street has been closed
forever. The Eastern gate and its interior sign is inscribed
with the time ``9:01'', and on the inside wall of the Western
Gate is inscribed ``9:03.'' These two gates together frame the
moment and place of this terrible explosion, the time ``9:02.''
The gates also serve as physical and psychological
transitions from the busy city streets to a meditative
landscape rich with soft edges and sounds.
Beneath the outside gate's wall inscription ``we come here
to remember,'' one is drawn through the gates into the heart of
the moment eager to tell its story.
The footprint of the former Alfred P. Murrah Building to
the South is covered with soft green grass, sloping up toward
the warmth of the sun. One hundred and sixty eight empty chairs
down this grassy slope where the building once stood, reminding
us of those who died. While the tragedy has affected the
community and nation as a whole, the 168 individual chairs will
remind us of the personal loss which resulted on April 19,
1995.
The chairs' presence will ensure that future generations of
Americans will always remember these members of our community.
These chairs are constructed of a stone seat and back, mounted
atop a glass block base which is inscribed with a victim's
name. By day, these chairs appear to float above their
translucent base, just as our memories of their loved ones seem
to float past at any given moment. By night, these glass bases
will be illuminated, representing beacons of hope which lighten
the night sky.
The Survivor Tree, witness to the violence of the moment,
stands to the North commemorating those who survived. Under its
canopy, grassy terraces step down in contrast to the sloping
field of 168 chairs beyond. Here, survivors may sit and find
inspiration to live their lives more meaningfully and better
appreciate the freedoms they as survivors still enjoy.
Rushing forth from the city's edges to surround the
Survivor Tree is an orchard of blossoming fruit trees which
recognize those who helped. Symbolic in their bearing of fruit,
these trees allude to the continuing life cycle of those
rescued and their future generations. The harvesting of the
fruit in the fall would become the focus of an annual
celebration honoring those who helped as well as those who were
rescued.
Nestled in the northwestern corner of the site, the
orchard, is a special place for the little helpers--the
children. A series of chalkboards set in the ground represents
the many letters and drawings the children sent in support and
they provide a place for them to continue expressing their
thoughts and encouragement.
At the center of this three-acre site, a long reflecting
pool spans what was once Fifth Street. The sounds of gently
flowing water provide a peaceful background to visitors'
thoughts. During the hot summer, the pool will provide cool
relief. In winter, its surface may freeze, reflecting the warm
glow of the empty chairs. Dark reflective stone will line the
pool's surface, making it difficult to see the pool bottom.
Water will flow over the edges and disappear into a thin
channel running around the perimeter of the pool.
And it is here, at the water's edge, that the areas of the
empty chairs, the Survivor Tree and its terraces, the fruit
tree and its or-
chard, where these areas meet. And as visitors from all over
the world gaze into the pool at their own reflections, they
will see the faces of those changed forever.
As you can see from our response, this event has touched
the world. It is our hope that the world will be able to come
to the site of this event and gain an understanding of what
happened at 9:02 on April 19th. I respectfully urge your
support of H.R. 1849, the bill to establish the Oklahoma City
National Memorial as a unit of the National Park System and
designating the Oklahoma City Memorial Trust.
Thank you.
[The statement of Mr. Butzer may be found at end of
hearing.]
Mr. Hansen. Thank you, Mr. Butzer. Mr. Faleomavaega? Any
questions?
Mr. Faleomavaega. The gentleman from Minnesota----
Mr. Vento. Maybe you could recognize him first.
Mr. Hansen. Fine. I will be happy to recognize the
gentleman from Minnesota.
Mr. Vento. I do not want to take away any time--I have to
leave, Mr. Chairman. I want to direct my comments to you
concerning this proposal. I do not doubt--I commend the Mayor
for the quick action of the Task Force and so forth. Mr.
Johnson, I listened to your comments with regard to the Park
Service issue. It obviously has come up unexpected. I did not
mean to do that today either, so I am not very----
I just hope that you realize I was trying to ask questions,
but I raised these questions in good faith. No one prompted me
to do this. It certainly comes out of the background in terms
of having worked with these topics. So, many other questions
with concession policies, commercial applications, fundraising
efforts onsite. And most of those--if we are going to convey
these types of responsibility to the corporation, that we just
do not know. It is not an entity that we do not--it is unknown
to us and we do not know about this. So, I think we are
concerned about it.
So, I hope that this Memorandum of Understanding, the final
policies, should--because you have got to have some sort of
accountability. I understand that somebody else is raising all
the money, why should the Park Service tell you what to do? I
mean, that is really I think what the--part of the issue here
is. But where we feel uncomfortable, at least I do and I think
many Members, but nobody wants to--we all want to support this,
but we need to have some assurance in terms of these policies
that evolve. We know that in the context of the laws that we
have, the laws regarding memorials and their construction,
designation, maintenance--obviously that is apparently not
acceptable to some. I would hope that would be the first
instance.
But beside that I think we need--we at least need at least
some assurance that the Park Service when they get the
Memorandum of Agreement here, that in fact they will have
something to say about the general management plan.
On the other issues, I know that you employed the state
historic preservation office--at least I assume it was the
state historic preservation office, the Oklahoma Historical
Society, in reference to one of the----
I have read this material now and I have these questions.
And I think that they need to be answered before you move from
the Subcommittee, Mr. Chairman, to the full Committee. And I do
not know that--I do not mean to--I understand that you are
going to mark it up, and you perhaps were not aware that these
questions had been raised. They have been, so I ask you to
consider that before you--I think it would be a better time to
do this before we move it along----
Mr. Hansen. Thank you. I appreciate it.
Mr. Vento. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have to leave. I am
going to excuse myself. Thank you.
Mr. Hansen. The gentleman from Colorado?
Mr. Hefley. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I think that it is an
enormous memorial to Oklahoma and to Oklahoma City, the way you
move about this task of coming to this point. Not only the way
you dealt with the tragedy in time and the way you deal with--
Mr. Mayor, I think it is a tribute to your leadership that this
has moved with the smoothness and as fast as it has. And, Mr.
Johnson, you have taken on an enormous task, and you are to be
commended as well.
I think the design concept is, and the way it is described
and the way we see it in the pictures, it looks like a
wonderful design and concept. Who am I to criticize the design
concept? But I think you may have missed--or maybe you have not
and I have just overlooked it--and that is one of the signs of
loss, which this commemorates I think very well, that ought to
be commemorated here is the bravery of the firefighters. Every
firefighter who entered that building was taking their life in
their hands. There were lives lost trying to pull this rescue--
I remember that the nurse, for instance, that was lost. And I
also remember the very dramatic pictures of the fireman with
the little baby coming out.
At the Vietnam Memorial, the wall is the focal point, but
there is a marvelous sculpture commemorating those young
soldiers who fought in Vietnam, which is beside the wall. And I
wonder if, Mr. Butzer, if any consideration was given to a
sculpture memorial to those firefighters, from not just
Oklahoma but around the country, who risked their lives in that
rescue effort. Was there any--or is there something here that I
am not seeing?
Mr. Butzer. For us the issue came down to an all-
encompassing notion of those who helped. And my wife and I have
always considered this orchard, which is surrounding--and that
to the right side, which in effect comes around from the
streets' edges and surrounds the Survival Tree. We have always
termed that as the ``Orchard of Helpers.'' And this orchard,
and its fruitbearing nature, is for us a very clear indication
of the appreciation shown to, among those, the firefighters,
the medical and police people from all over the nation, to
indicate how important their role was in the rescue efforts.
Mr. Hefley. I think that is a perfectly good approach to it
all, although it is a bit subtle. And unless someone has an
interpreter there to interpret that, most people who see the
orchard will not understand that. Or maybe there would be a
plaque or something that will tell it. And I wonder if you give
the--those brave people who went into that building the--Mr.
Johnson, you can comment.
Mr. Johnson. Yes. Mr. Hefley, we will be developing an
interactive learning museum in the building just on the north
side of the remembrance site, and in that museum one of the
focal points that is very important to us is to underscore the
valor of the rescue and recovery effort. And it was an
incredible effort of public and private sector combined that
you saw in the days following the bombing, and that is where it
will be told in detail.
Mr. Hefley. Well, I have always thought that the
firefighters, and I see your Fire Chief is here, but that the
firefighters had the most dangerous public service jobs in
America, more dangerous than the police, although I do not take
away from that. When a firefighter--walk in that building and
they go and risk their lives, and certainly this--every night
on television it was depicted the bravery of these people. And
I just want to make sure you do not overlook them, and I am
sure you would not. You have shown enormous sensitivity in
everything that you have done. So. But I just wanted to make
that point. Thank you.
Mr. Hansen. Mr. Faleomavaega?
Mr. Faleomavaega. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Gentlemen, I
think you know what seems to be the single issue here before
you--the proposed legislation. I do not think there is any
question in anybody's mind on both sides. One of them--
according to what our friends from the National Park Service
indicated earlier, they are kind of bent out of joint by this.
It seems like they were not part of the process. And as--by the
gentleman from Minnesota, the concern about the trust, based
on--you are asking for a $5 million authorization as part of
the process, extension of funds for this purpose? I would like
your comments about the concerns that the National Park Service
has indicated earlier. Mr. Johnson?
Mr. Johnson. I would be pleased to respond. Let me say
first that in the development of the Memorial Mission
Statement, again, we made it clear that the strong sentiment
was that this memorial should be operated by the National Park
Service. It should be a National Memorial because of all the
reasons mentioned. In the months that followed the adoption of
the Mission Statement in March 1996, there was increasing press
coverage of the budgetary dilemma of the Parks System. The most
recent article that I have seen was in the August 29th issue of
``U.S.A. Today'' where they alluded to possibly needing $8
billion to cure the difficulties. And the point of the article
is consistent with others that I have seen, and this is by no
means criticism of management of the Park System. The best
managers cannot do their job without the funds do so. But the
article made it clear that the public will either need to lower
its expectations of the quality of maintenance of the National
Park units, or Congress will need to appropriate more money,
which is unlikely, or the Park System must find new revenue
sources, and those may include combines with local communities
and other entities outside the lines of the model that has been
used for units of the National Park System in the past.
We have attempted to do that. We could have come here with
our hands held out and saying: this is a terrible tragedy and
we want you to pay for it. But we have intentionally avoided
doing that. We want this memorial to have a widespread public
participation, and therefore widespread public ownership. We
can only do that if the private sector bears the brunt of the
cost.
So, what we are asking for in light of the increasing
attention to the budgetary dilemma of the Park System is give
us a combine that perhaps can be a model for other units,
although our focus is simply on ours. Give us a model that
allows these things to happen. We can assure compliance with
the guidelines of the National Park System. That is first and
foremost on our list. We are not going to build a world-class
National Memorial and then not maintain it, as they have been
able to maintain units in the past.
Give us a model that allows us to retain money that may be
generated from visitation fees, which we would like to avoid,
but the reality is it probably will be a necessity, unless our
endowment fundraising exceeds our expectations. But allow us to
retain those funds for this project for future maintenance and
enhancement and give us a model that allows both the Park
System and those who have worked so hard and developed such a
sense of ownership in this, particularly families and
survivors, to both participate, neither to the exclusion of the
other. And we think we can do that.
It is not clear from the Bill, as Ms. Finnerty has pointed
out, that a cooperative agreement is required. Absolutely there
will be one. There must be one. And by no means is this a
project where we may ask them to be involved. Never have we
said that we would do anything other than ask them to please be
a part of this project.
So, we think this satisfies all of those requirements. It
gives us the ability to perhaps maintain it at a level higher
than would be the case with the Park System, and yet involves
both collaboration of the private sector and the Park System in
management.
Mr. Faleomavaega. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Hansen. Thank you. Mayor.
Mr. Norick. Yes, I do. I think that, as was said earlier in
the discussions, we knew that really the National Park Service
was the right entity for us to model and to operate this
memorial, because this is a memorial, and more than just to
Oklahoma City. This is a memorial of a nation for the Federal
employees. And it would not be fair if they were not involved,
because this really is part of the national fabric. And I feel
comfortable that within the legislation--I just--there is one
very brief statement on page 12 of the bill that says: within 1
year after the enactment of this Act, the trust, in
consultation with the Secretary, who is the Secretary of the
Interior, shall develop a comprehensive program for management
of those lands, operation of facilities within the memorial
established by this Act.
I mean, that right there is a clear understanding that we
want to be a part of working in cooperative agreement, that it
will only operate efficiently when both parties agree to the
operation. We want the help the Federal budget by providing
those funds privately and the operation of that fund. That is
the reason this Act--this bill only calls for a one-time
appropriation. And with that I think it is imperative this
trust does have operational control. If you will also note in
the law also that it--that the President of the United States
is the one that appoints the members of this trust. Their names
are submitted by various entities in the State of Okla-
homa, but the President of the United States has the overall
ability to appoint the members of that trust, and that
obviously shows that we want the Federal Government heavily
involved in this.
Mr. Hansen. Thank you, Mayor. We will vote and come back,
the last time. Excuse me, gentlemen. The gentlemen from
Oklahoma?
Mr. Lucas. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And, once again, Mr.
Johnson, will you discuss for just a few moments the financial
background on this proposal?
Mr. Johnson. The budget for the remembrance component, the
outdoor area that is the subject of the designs as described,
is approximately $10 million. The budget for the interactive
learning museum in the building just to the north of the
remembrance component is approximately $7 million. We are also
committed to raising approximately $5 million to permanently
endow the institute that I spoke of. We will also be providing
an archives facility at approximately $600,000. And all of that
taken together with foundation expenses give us a budget of
approximately $24 million.
Our plan for the raising of that $24 million has nothing to
do with where we are today. The $5 million we are asking of you
will be created as a partial endowment for operation and
maintenance. We will be asking the state for $5 million of the
$24 million and the balance, the $19 million, will be coming
from the private sector, three of which has been raised today.
Mr. Lucas. So, the way you describe the situation, it will
create a situation where the Park Service would not have to
have an additional annual operating sum appropriated by this
Congress and that the funds that would be generated from this
financial effort would also pay for the Park Service presence
as envisioned in--statement and the various entities, including
the Park Service?
Mr. Johnson. It basically pays for the Park Service
presence if we use the six personnel that have been suggested
by the Denver office: the supervisory interpreter, two
interpreters, two seasonal rangers, and curator. The estimated
compensation for those six is $260,000 a year. If we use that,
then the $5 million, you would be taking a 7 percent yield on
that from the endowment that would give us $350,000 a year. So,
we are only asking the Federal Government for about $100,000 in
operating income interest on that endowment a year in addition
to the Park Service personnel costs.
Mr. Lucas. Thank you. I must say, Mr. Chairman, that I
congratulate the Mayor on leadership he has shown through the
tragedy and since then, for the way the community has worked
and pulled together. Of course, the architect, what is your
design. If I could in my final seconds ask Mr. Johnson if we
would care to address any of the comments made by--put together
with the time----
Mr. Johnson. I do not think there is--I would hope no one
will leave here today thinking that anyone with the Oklahoma
City Memorial Foundation or anyone else involved in this
memorial has made an effort to exclude the National Park
Service. To the extent of our involvement, we certainly have
not. We have sought their assistance. We will continue to do
so. And I will underscore the comment I made before, and that
is we need them involved. They know how to do this and we want
them involved.
I think this model gives the Federal Government--a wholly
owned government corporation gives the Federal Government more
control than if it is the Oklahoma City Memorial Foundation
working with the National Park Service. The down side is not
great. If this does not work, you created it, it is a single-
purpose limited-activity agency, in essence, and you can unwind
it. But we have every reason to believe that it is feasible, it
will work, and hopefully we will see that it will work on other
projects.
Mr. Lucas. And as you would note, Mr. Chairman, a huge
amount of effort and time and personal resources and very
thoughtful planning and research has gone into this effort. I
assure you this has not been a casual thrown-together bill.
This entire effort has been put together with the detail that
you have heard from this panel today.
Mr. Hansen. Well, I believe you said that the cooperation
is awesome, the cooperation of the people of Oklahoma, the
Mayor, the Federal Government. I appreciate what you said about
the process, and they are good at that. You do a good job. I
have to say there are a few little points I would like to see--
and also that Mr. Hefley--I guess most of us were just
entranced with this. It is like the Persian Gulf War, where you
were just affixed on the television sets when this occurred,
and you have to say that the--those who went in did a
tremendous job of pulling out the survivors--memorial
somewhere, because that was an unbelievable effort. I want to
compliment the gentleman from Oklahoma, Mr. Lucas, for putting
this together and then trying to bring--some armed services----
And you should be complimented on that. We have got one
other great panel here that I would like to hear what you have
to say, but we are all running out of time. So, I--will turn
the chair over to him, and we will quickly run over and try to
vote, take care, and be back as fast as we can. But if you will
continue going, I would appreciate it.
Mr. Faleomavaega. [presiding] Mr. Chairman, I would like to
compliment the gentleman from Oklahoma for his sponsorship of
this legislation. And the record is clear, contrary to what we
have heard earlier, that there was close consultation with the
Denver office, and for a reason suggested a number of Park
Service staffing and expertise that----
Well, thank you, gentleman for your testimony. We would
like to proceed now with our next panel.
For the record, Mr. Welch, a Oklahoma City resident; Mr.
Don Rogers, the former Building Manager at the Murrah Federal
Building; and Mr. Gary Marrs, the Fire Chief for the city of
Oklahoma.
Mr. Welch, would you like to proceed?
STATEMENT OF EMMETT E. ``BUD'' WELCH, RESIDENT, OKLAHOMA CITY,
OKLAHOMA
Mr. Welch. Thank you, Mr. Chairman and Members of the
Committee. I am Bud Welch. My 23-year-old daughter, Julie Marie
Welch, was killed April 19, 1995, in the Murrah Building
bombing.
Julie had graduated from Bishop McGuiness High School in
1990 after being a foreign exchange student with Youth for
Understanding. She lived with a family in Pontevedra, Galicia,
Spain, for 1 year between her sophomore and junior years in
high school.
She received a foreign language scholarship from Marquette
University in Milwaukee and entered school there in August
1990.
Julie spent her sophomore year in college in Madrid at
Marquette's campus in conjunction with the University of Madrid
in Spain. She received her degree in Spanish from Marquette
with a minor in French and Italian. Upon Julie's death, Julie
spoke Spanish, French, Portuguese, Italian, English and knew
enough German to travel. And she actually spoke a little bit
of--also, which is my second language. She had graduated from
Marquette University in 1994.
Julie was the Spanish translator for Social Security. I
brought Julie back to Oklahoma City over the Fourth of July
weekend in 1994. That was our last long travel together. She
was employed by Social Security the following month. She was
hired under the Federal Government Honors Program.
Julie Marie was my only daughter, my pal, my confidant and
my friend.
I was to meet Julie at 11:30 that fateful Wednesday morning
for our weekly luncheon at the Athenian Greek Restaurant across
the street from the Murrah Building. This is west of the
Survivor Tree.
It became very important that the old faithful American
Elm, now known as the ``Survivor Tree,'' be included in the
planned Memorial. That was Julie's favorite place to park and
this tree survived the blast that so many people did not. The
dead have since been buried, the survivors have been relocated,
and it is the only living thing left there.
Working closely with the Memorial Foundation has helped me
tremendously in my healing. I look forward to that continuing
with the dialog with strangers once our new beautiful Memorial
is built.
I believe it should be a National Memorial with a National
Park status:
The majority of the victims were Federal public
servants. They died in service of their country.
The crime happened on Federal property and stemmed
from what some believed were problems with Federal
policies.
The people of this nation and the people of the world
expect the United States of America to recognize this
as a National Memorial.
I base that on the thousands of cards, letters and
telephone calls that I have received from more than 30 foreign
countries, every province in Canada and also the territories of
Canada, and every State in the Union.
Let us please do not let the world down. I urge you to
support H.R. 1849 to establish the Oklahoma City National
Monument and designate the Oklahoma City Memorial Trust.
We will build the memorial regardless of how this
legislation turns out. We want the blessing of the U.S. House
of Representatives, Senate, and the President of the United
States. That is the main reason that we are here. We want
Federal recognition.
Mr. Chairman, thank you for this opportunity. I would be
happy to answer any questions at this time. In fact, I would
encourage questions. Thank you very much.
[The statement of Mr. Welch may be found at end of
hearing.]
Mr. Faleomavaega. Thank you, Mr. Welch. Mr. Rogers?
STATEMENT OF DON ROGERS, FORMER BUILDING MANAGER, A.P. MURRAH
FEDERAL BUILDING, OKLAHOMA CITY, OKLAHOMA
Mr. Rogers. I wish to thank Congressman Frank Lucas and the
Members of this Committee for allowing me to testify on an
issue I feel so strongly about.
I am Don Rogers, Manager of the Alfred P. Murrah Federal
Building in Oklahoma City on April 19, 1995. I am a survivor of
the bombing, injured in the building on the first floor near
the center of the building.
I would like to tell you part of my story, which occurred
on a date that so many of us will never forget:
The moment the bomb detonated, I was standing near the
elevator lobby, just having completed a meeting which was held
in my office (situated against the glass wall where the Ryder
truck was parked). I had walked out into the hall after the
meeting to have a side discussion with Robert Dennis, Court
Clerk of the U.S. District Court. Quickly we were engulfed in
total darkness--unable to see or breathe. I was choking for air
when I came to the realization that someone was calling my
name. Somewhat confused and unable to see, I reached toward the
direction of the voice. In doing so I was able to grasp Bob's
arm. Together we climbed over the debris trying to reach
safety. It was as if we were crawling through a cave, except
there was no air to breathe nor light to see. Beginning to feel
somewhat ``entombed'', we became determined to find a way out.
While we were attempting to get out of the building, Bob and I
rescued two other ladies, Dot Hill and Pam Lacy. We were able
to help them and we found a way through the rubble to the west
side of the building.
We quickly realized that things were not much better
outside of the building. The north half of the building had
been blown inward; a large gaping hole was all that remained of
that portion. On the street approximately twenty-five cars were
on fire. I was confused as to what could have possibly occurred
to cause such damage. Realization hit me again with the impact
of a blast, that I was immediately concerned for the children
in daycare and the tenants in the building that I was
responsible for managing.
I ran to the south of the building to gain entry and found
men using makeshift ladders from the playground fences to climb
into the building, trying to rescue those inside. The east
stairwell was blocked by rubble so I could not continue to
higher floors, so I went back to the plaza level. Looking
upward I tried to determine the best approach I could, when I
saw a man pinned against the inner south wall, hanging out of
the building. The top of his head was missing, the lower
portion of his body was completely crushed, yet he raised his
head asking for assistance: ``Help me. Please help me.'' A
moment later his life was gone. The Federal workers trying to
pull him free realized that their efforts were in vain. Nothing
could be done. Although my eyes were full of smoke and dust and
debris, I have a clear memory of viewing this man's losing
struggle with death.
Members of the Fire Department were arriving to assist in
the rescue efforts already under way. Again I attempted to
enter the building in an effort to find employees and children.
The fire-
fighters saw me and insisted that I needed medical attention
for my eyes and my multiple lacerations.
I was treated at the local hospital that day, released in
the afternoon, and returned to the building to help the rescue
workers search for survivors and assist in identifying bodies.
I remember thinking that this could not be the same building
that I had worked for 19 years. It was difficult to identify
anything. It seemed as though we were going down into a large
cavern with debris heaped up on the ground and hanging down
from the ceiling.
I remember seeing one body that did not resemble a person;
it was a mass of flesh and material embedded in rocks and
crevices. The fireman with me at the time told me that this was
a lady wearing a black dress imprinted with roses. I remembered
that I had seen this woman as she stepped off the elevator,
walking past me and toward the front doors just moments before
the blast.
The reason for telling my story today is that there are a
thousand other stories to be told by the rescue workers,
survivors, firemen, policemen, and medical personnel.
The innocent laughter of the children nor their footsteps
(as well as that of my friends and coworkers) will never be
heard again.
Life's evening sun has set for 168 Americans, which will
not rise again on this earth. The contributions of these
individuals to their families and communities, local churches
and civic groups were ended before any of them had the
opportunity to do great things. However, each one of them was
considered ``great'' by family and friends, thus resulting in a
great loss to our nation.
We wish to let the world know that violent acts must be
prevented. The proposed memorial would provide hope that future
violent acts of this magnitude can be prevented and serve as a
reminder of how people can (and should) reach out and care for
one another with compassion.
We, as a nation, as a society, governed by the citizens,
feel an urgency to construct an appropriate memorial in order
to remember the value of those who perished (infants, children,
sisters and brothers, parents, grandparents) the strength of
the human spirit, and the loss of innocence experienced by
America on that day.
And unless we establish this memorial as a national
monument to remember those who were killed, those who survived
and those who were changed forever, plus provide a place for
people to gain an understanding of the impact of violence, and
also provide a place which offers comfort, strength, peace, and
hope, the affliction of this American tragedy will be
unresolved.
Thank you very much.
[The statement of Mr. Rogers may be found at end of
hearing.]
Mr. Faleomavaega. Mr. Marrs?
STATEMENT OF GARY B. MARRS, FIRE CHIEF, OKLAHOMA CITY, OKLAHOMA
Mr. Marrs. Mr. Chairman and Members of the Subcommittee, I
am Gary Marrs, the Fire Chief for the Oklahoma City Fire
Department. On behalf of the more than 1,000 firefighters in
Oklahoma City and those from 43 fire departments and a large
number of law enforcement agencies that came from near and far
to help in the rescue and recovery efforts, I would like to
thank you for the opportunity to testify before you today.
As you know, at 9:02 a.m. on April 19, 1995, Oklahoma City
was the target of a senseless act of terrorism. Within a few
seconds all of our lives were changed forever. The tragic loss
of life and the countless injuries were devastating to our
community.
Seconds after the bombing, a massive response of public
safety agencies, health care providers and the general public
occurred. The first arriving fire department personnel from
Station 1 were faced with an overwhelming rescue operation.
Buildings were damaged over a 60-square block area and a large
number of vehicles were on fire. Major structural damage
occurred not only in the Federal Building, but in a 26-story
400-unit apartment building, a six-story office building, a
three-story office building, a two-story building with a
restaurant and a basement across the street, and in several
buildings in a four-block area.
As we approached the scene, we began encountering debris in
the road several blocks away from the Murrah Federal Building
site. Firefighters began walking in front of the apparatus to
move the debris out of the roadway. In addition, they began to
encounter injured people walking away from the blast. A number
of our units began to immediately treat injured survivors and
quickly realized that there were going to be hundreds more.
Dozens of rescue and recovery workers formed human chains
as we began to pass victims from the building into the street.
All of the individuals rescued alive from the Murrah Federal
Building and the surrounding structures were rescued on that
first day within the first 12 hours of the operation. Many of
the rescues accomplished that day by Oklahoma City firefighters
and the hundreds who assisted them would have been dramatic
events if they had happened individually. The fact that they
occurred as part of an incident of this magnitude overshadowed
the hundreds of individual acts of professionalism, and in many
cases heroism, that occurred that Wednesday in April and the
days that followed.
FEMA workers and 11 Urban Search and Rescue Task Force
teams came to Oklahoma City with hope they could help us find
more survivors and to help all of us. Today, spread out across
the United States, each rescuer has an understanding that this
event was not just an Oklahoma event--it was an event that
touched the nation. It has reached coast to coast.
The outpouring from people was unbelievable. From the
wheelbarrows filled with ice and drinks, to a national pizza
chain onsite serving more than 10,000 free pizzas, to a supply
room filled with everything from bandannas to rain suits to
batteries. We would ask for something and people would bring it
to the site. People donated clothes, food, equipment, and
supplies in record numbers to support the rescue operations. If
a request for some specialized service was made, such as
veterinarians for the search dogs, the response was immediate
and overwhelming. More than 1,000 cellular telephones were
handed out free to emergency personnel and all the air time was
donated by the companies.
Establishing a National Park on the site of this attack is
appropriate to honor the victims, the survivors, and the rescue
and re-
covery workers and to show the world the shining example of how
a community can come together to rise above adversity.
As Oklahoma City Police Chaplain Jack Poe has said since
the bombing, the ``Oklahoma Standard'' means a new level of
caring. The Oklahoma City National Memorial will do just that.
Mr. Chairman, again, thank you for giving me the opportunity to
represent all of the brave men and women who worked for 18 days
under impossible circumstances on behalf of our community and
our nation.
[The statement of Mr. Marrs may be found at end of
hearing.]
Mr. Faleomavaega. Gentlemen, I cannot find any words in the
English language equal to what you have said this morning.
Without question our nation was moved with compassion and
sympathy for those individuals and innocent children who
suffered----
I sincerely hope this legislation will move forward with
constructive suggestions from our friends in the National Park
Service and the Administration, and that we will proceed toward
passage of this bill. And I think it is only appropriate that I
would like to take time now for a statement from Oklahomans who
sponsored this bill.
Mr. Lucas. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate the
Committee committing to sit through the Committee hearing on
this bill and I apologize to the panel for not being here for
the whole discussion----
Clearly what you have seen and done in connection with this
tragic event are the kinds of things that no one should ever
have to see or ever have to do. It is reassuring to know that
in our society, in Oklahoma, across the nation, that people
under the most horrible circumstances can rise to the occasion
to do what is necessary to help their fellow human beings. And
that in many ways you have helped restore my beliefs in my
personal--my faith in my fellow human beings and in humanity.
And I personally appreciate you coming today to discuss what
you went through and what you have gone through and what you
are going through, because it means so much, I believe, to the
message that H.R. 1849 has drawn across this country.
And for that, thank you. I know it was not easy to prepare
and I know it was not easy delivering your testimony. I must
say this to the Committee and for the record: I truly believe
that this piece of legislation in its original is not only the
best intentions of everyone involved but the most careful and
deliberate planning and thought, with hands extended to
everyone in an effort to do what is right, not only for those
168 folks who lost their lives that day and in the days and
hours afterwards, but also for the rescuers and every one who
had a physical part in the process, then and in the recovery--
--
So with that, Mr. Chairman, I would simply want to state
for the record that I appreciate the opportunity to set up all
these panels. I truly appreciate the Subcommittee's willingness
to hear the testimony and hold a hearing on H.R. 1849. And I
would certainly respectfully urge the Subcommittee and the full
Committee to perform the mark up at the earliest opportune
moment.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Faleomavaega. I thank the gentleman for his comments
and again, on behalf of the Chairman of the Subcommittee--I
thank you, gentlemen. The hearing is adjourned.
[The photographs may be found at end of hearing.]
[The Letter of Understanding may be found at end of
hearing.]
[The Memorial Mission Statement may be found at end of
hearing.]
[Whereupon, at 1 p.m. the Subcommittee was adjourned.]
[Additional material submitted for the record follows.]
Statement of Maureen Finnerty, Associate Director, Park Operations and
Education, National Park Service, U.S. Department of the Interior
Mr. Chairman and members of the Subcommittee, thank you for
the opportunity to appear before you to address H.R. 1849, a
bill to establish the Oklahoma City National Memorial as a unit
of the National Park System and to create a government
corporation known as the Oklahoma City Memorial Trust to manage
the memorial. First and foremost, let me say that we support
the goal of establishing the memorial as a unit of the National
Park System. The significance of the tragedy of the bombing of
the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City, and the
meaning and implications of this event for our nation, compel
the establishment of this memorial as a visible and prominent
national shrine. While we support the establishment of this
memorial, we have significant concerns over certain aspects of
its management as proposed in H.R. 1849 and strongly recommend
an alternative management arrangement. In raising these
concerns, we share the sponsors' goals for expeditiously
creating an excellent, well-managed national memorial that
appropriately communicates and reflects the meaning of the
Oklahoma City bombing to the nation.
If enacted, H.R. 1849 would create a new unit of the
National Park System in Oklahoma City--a memorial to recognize
the profound changes brought to so many lives the morning of
April 19, 1995. The legislation would direct the National Park
Service, upon the request of the Oklahoma City Memorial Trust,
to provide technical assistance to the Trust and, along with
other Federal agencies, to carry out day-to-day visitor service
programs at the memorial.
After the bombing of the Alfred P. Murrah Federal building,
President Clinton declared a national day of mourning for the
victims of the bombing. He asked the people of the United
States to pray for the victims and the community when they
gathered in their places of worship. The President also
traveled to Oklahoma City on that Sunday to participate in a
memorial service for the bombing victims. At the service, the
President personally thanked all those who worked heroically to
save lives and he pledged to do all he could to help heal the
injured, and to rebuild the city. The President promised to
stand by the people of Oklahoma City for as long as it took.
Creating a permanent memorial for the victims of the bombing
helps fulfill the spirit of that pledge.
After the Oklahoma City bombing, citizens throughout the
Nation expressed their solidarity in many ways. Along with the
national day of mourning and the rededication of public
servants to their calling, personal mementos were left, and
continue to be left at the site of the bombing. Through mayoral
and citizen action, the Oklahoma City Memorial Foundation was
established to create an appropriate memorial on the site. The
Foundation has done a tremendous job of involving the public,
defining its mission and goals, and holding a design
competition for the memorial. Building upon these local efforts
is the legislation introduced by the Oklahoma delegation.
While the circumstances compelling the establishment of a
national memorial to the Oklahoma City tragedy as a unit of the
National Park System are extraordinary, the approach to
managing this memorial should benefit from proven National Park
Service models. Because the National Park Service was not part
of the process that developed the Intergovernmental Letter of
Understanding, dated October 28, 1996, we could not provide our
suggestions at that time. We appreciate the opportunity
provided by the legislative process to share our views now
about the most appropriate and effective role for each
organization and governmental entity involved in the memorial.
Mr. Chairman, we support the objective that this new unit
of the National Park System be managed and administered in
close cooperation with, and with the full involvement of, local
citizens and entities. As proposed, however, the legislation
provides no role to the National Park Service in the management
or administration of this new park unit unless the Oklahoma
City Memorial Trust requests its involvement for certain
limited purposes. Essentially, the legislation provides
complete control over this new park unit to the Oklahoma City
Memorial Trust, a wholly-owned government corporation. This
management approach raises several concerns and should be re-
evaluated in light of other proven approaches which incorporate
substantial local involvement and utilize public/private
partnerships for specific purposes.
One significant issue for reconsideration is the
establishment of the Oklahoma City Memorial Trust as a wholly-
owned government corporation. In a 1995 report prepared by the
Congressional Research Service for the Senate Committee on
Governmental Affairs, a government corporation was defined as
``an agency of the government, established by Congress to
perform a public purpose, which provides a market-oriented
service and produces revenue that meets or approximates its
expenditures.'' The transmittal letter from the Committee
stated that ``government corporations are an appropriate option
only when certain conditions are present, such as a
sustainable, commercial-type revenue stream, and that the
misuse of the corporate concept can actually result in a
weakened capacity of the executive branch to meet its statutory
requirements and the capability of Congress to hold agencies
accountable for their activities and financial obligations.''
The only example of the use of a government corporation in
the National Park System is the Presidio Trust, established by
legislation enacted last November. The Presidio of San
Francisco presented a tremendous management challenge. The
military transferred an enormous complex with many buildings to
the National Park Service. In that case, the National Park
Service needed the expertise of people familiar with business
and real estate in the city of San Francisco who could
effectively lease buildings and provide other mechanisms to
assure that the Presidio's buildings were protected. While
entrepreneurial revenue-generating goals are appropriate for
the Presidio, we question whether they are as appropriate for
the memorial.
It was clear to us from the testimony given at the field
hearing in Oklahoma City that it is the wish of local citizens
and the State of Oklahoma to retain a strong level of local
control and involvement in all aspects of the memorial's
operation and interpretation. We believe that the legislation
could best achieve this by directing the National Park Service
to manage the memorial in cooperation with the Oklahoma City
Memorial Foundation, which could operate without the Federal
restrictions that would be imposed on a government corporation.
The general guidance for this cooperative effort could be
outlined in legislation, and the specific aspects of the
partnership developed through cooperative and interagency
agreements.
We would be pleased to provide examples of public laws for
existing National Park System units which involve partnerships
with municipal or private institutions, as well as examples of
cooperative and interagency agreements at existing National
Park System units. Clearly, there is a need for the Oklahoma
City Memorial Foundation to continue in its role as fundraiser
for the construction of the memorial and to establish an
endowment to ensure the continued maintenance and preservation
of the memorial. We believe that many existing National Park
System units can serve as legislative models for a partnership
which would include the Foundation, as well as Federal, State
and local agencies.
We commend Congressman Lucas, and the other members of the
Oklahoma delegation in their efforts to appropriately
memorialize the lives of the innocent victims of the Oklahoma
City bombing. We look forward to working closely with the
delegation and the Committee staff in developing a legislative
concept which will work well for the Oklahoma City Memorial
Foundation, the National Park Service, and all of those who
have been affected by this tragic event.
That completes my remarks Mr. Chairman. I would be happy to
answer any questions that you may have.
------
Statement of John Pouland, Regional Administrator, General Services
Administration
Mr. Chainnan and Members of the Committee:
My name is John Pouland, Regional Administrator of the
General Services Administration (GSA) for the Greater Southwest
Region which includes Oklahoma. I am pleased to appear before
you today in support of House bill H.R. 1849, and its Senate
counterpart S. 871, bills to establish the Oklahoma City
National Memorial and to designate the Oklahoma City National
Memorial Trust. The Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building was part
of the GSA; inventory and the legislation directs GSA to
transfer the building site to the Oklahoma City National
Memorial Trust.
On April 19, 1995, a vicious attack on the Government
killed 168 people, including 19 children, and destroyed the
Murrah Federal Office Building in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma.
Nobody who has heard about this senseless act of terrorism,
seen the horrible pictures of human suffering and total
destruction, or was in any other way personally affected by
this tragedy will ever forget that day. We will always remember
where we were when the news shocked the Nation and the world.
Recent events such as the McVeigh trial and the sentencing
caused us all to relive those tragic moments and listen to the
heartwrenching stories of the survivors and the victims'
families. Who will ever be able to erase the pictures of the
small child in the arms of the firefighter etched into our
minds and hearts forever?
I am here today, to support an effort which will help the
people of Oklahoma and the rest of the Nation to continue the
healing process. As the President stated dur-
ing the Ceremony on behalf of the Oklahoma City Memorial
Foundation last month, ``The Memorial design is elegant. It is
symbolic. It manages to focus on this act of unconscionable
violence and still honor the valor of the people of the
community and the lives of the victims in a setting of
reflection and peace that should leave people, when they go
through it, feeling stronger rather than weaker.''
The people of the General Services Administration were
personally affected by the suffering, involved in the rescue
and emergency management efforts and assisted in the re-
establishment of operational capabilities. Now we are proud to
help with the healing process. The Murrah Federal Building was
part of the GSA-owned Federal inventory and the child care
center was part of a nation-wide effort to create childcare for
Federal workers. Tragically, two of our employees died in the
attack, and 20 others were injured. Our regional employees were
particularly distraught since they knew many of the tenants
from the various agencies housed in the building.
Immediately following the bombing, GSA employees assisted
emergency teams with the evacuation of the building while
Federal Protective Officers established a security perimeter
around the building for safety precautions and to expedite aid.
Within hours of the explosion, GSA established a command center
in Oklahoma City and located space for an Oklahoma City
Disaster Field Office for the Federal Emergency Management
Agency and the Department of Justice. By the next morning,
approximately 50 GSA personnel were on-site assisting in
critical areas. At the same time, surrounding buildings like
the Federal Building and Courthouse, one block south of the
Murrah Building, and the U.S. Post Office and Courthouse, two
blocks south, also sustained damage and received immediate
assistance to maximize safety and restore normal operations.
GSA was able to respond immediately in various ways to the
Oklahoma City disaster. We either provided services directly or
coordinated with other agencies and response groups. These
circumstances were a true test of GSA's preparedness, systems
and procedures.
Since this tragedy, the site of the destroyed Murrah
Building was cleared and stands ready to be transformed from a
site of pain and sorrow to a site of remembrance and healing.
GSA fully supports the establishment of Memorial and is
prepared to transfer the site to an appropriate Federal agency
or local entity if that is deemed appropriate. At the same
time, GSA is planning to construct a new Federal building in
Oklahoma City, as authorized by the Administration and Congress
and in cooperation with the city.
The establishment of a National Memorial is the right thing
to do. GSA supports the establishment of the Memorial and would
like to work with the Oklahoma delegation, the National Park
Service, and other agencies and entities to find the
appropriate way to manage the Memorial.
Mr. Chairman, this concludes my remarks. I would be happy
to answer any questions that you and the Committee Members may
have. Thank you.
------
Statement of Ronald J. Norick, Mayor, Oklahoma City, Oklahoma
Mr. Chairman and Members of the Subcommittee. I am Ronald
J. Norick, Mayor of Oklahoma City, Oklahoma. On behalf of the
members of the City Council, I would like to thank you for this
opportunity to testify before you today.
As you know, the bombing of the Alfred P. Murrah Federal
Building in downtown Oklahoma City on April 19, 1995,
devastated the lives of Oklahoma City residents in a way unlike
any other event in the history of the United States. I will
focus my testimony on the impact the bombing had on Oklahoma
City and why the proposed legislation is so important to our
city.
This legislation will not only benefit Oklahoma City, it
will benefit all Americans. While this event occurred in
Oklahoma City, it was an attack on all Americans. It was an
attack on all people who believe in the principles of this
nation. People from every state in the Nation as well as
thousands of people from outside the United States have visited
the memorial site. Hundreds of people can be found at the site
every day, in all kinds of weather, at all times of the day and
night.
This event touched people not just in the United States,
but around the world. Thousands of items were sent to my office
from people from around the world. It has been over 2 years
since the bombing, visitation and inquiries about the site have
not declined. Thousands of people visit the site weekly. More
than a million people have visited the site since the bombing
leaving a piece of them at the chain link fence that surrounds
the building footprint. They have left hundreds of thousands of
items including messages, toys, flowers and shirts off their
back as they try to express their sympathy, their compassion
and somehow understand that this could have happened anywhere
in the United States.
For reference, the site is not more than a mile from the
intersection of two of the country's major interstate highways,
together carrying over 200,000 vehicles daily. Visitation will
not decrease. The construction of the memorial and learning
center will result in an increase in visitation, adding impetus
to the City's efforts to improve the appearance and vitality of
downtown Oklahoma City.
This legislation granting National Park status will
recognize the sacred nature of the site and its significance to
all Americans. This site of a tragic event has become a special
place in our nation's identity. It cannot, will not and should
not be forgotten. This is why the City strongly supports this
legislation.
Other than the loss of life, and the accompanying impact on
the lives of those touched by those losses, the bombing of the
Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building tore the heart out of our
city. More than 300 structures were damaged and 12 buildings
had to be demolished in the heart of our downtown. Rebuilding
has been difficult as property owners and tenants, forced out
of the area by damages to their properties, have been reluctant
to reestablish in downtown Oklahoma City. Many have not had the
finances. Special funding provided by Congress in 1995 has been
absolutely vital to our rebuilding process. The recovery has
been slow, and there still remains a very visible hole in the
City's fabric.
The Oklahoma City Memorial, in conjunction with the passage
of this legislation, will do much to heal that hole. It sends a
powerful message to the people of Oklahoma City and to the
Nation that the healing process is well underway, and that
investment in the renewal of downtown makes good economic and
civic sense.
Knowing that within a year, building will begin on a world
class Memorial on the site of the Murrah Building and that it
will be designated a National Park, permits the City to be more
specific in targeting development in the downtown area,
especially in the severally impacted district surrounding the
Memorial.
The redevelopment of several of the larger buildings most
heavily damaged by the bombing will now be possible. The City
can also begin planning for traffic control, parking,
streetscaping, sidewalk improvements, directional signage and
other public improvements required to cater to the restructured
business district and visitors to the site. Much of this
planning has been on hold as the City and property owners have
struggled with the task of making this area whole again. That
hold will be lifted by this legislation. Private investors who
have been holding back until they know the future of the area,
can also begin their reconstruction plans.
The City strongly supports this legislation's establishment
of the Oklahoma City National Memorial Trust. It is vital to
those most directly affected by the events of April 19, 1995,
that the story of this tragic event be managed locally. The
Trust is the best vehicle for doing so.
Let me say again, the tragedy that befell Oklahoma City on
April 19, 1995, was not just a tragedy for those of us in
Oklahoma. It was a tragedy that affected the whole nation. The
effect of that tragedy is felt no less today, over 2 years
later. It is only fitting that a tragedy of such national
significance be recognized as such, and the legislation I speak
in support of today provides that recognition. The city of
Oklahoma City strongly supports this legislation, and we will
be happy to do whatever is necessary to support its passage.
Thank you Mr. Chairman and members for this opportunity.
------
Statement of Robert M. Johnson, Chairman, Oklahoma City Memorial
Foundation
Mr. Chairman and Members of the Committee:
My name is Robert M. Johnson. I am the Chairman of the Oklahoma
City Memorial Foundation, serving as a volunteer pursuant to the June,
1995 appointment of Oklahoma City Mayor Ron Norick.
In April 1995, President and Mrs. Clinton came to Oklahoma just
days following the worst terrorist attack on American soil. The
President said then:
``All of you, the brave people of Oklahoma, made it clear to
the entire nation and to the world that the very deeds of those
who sought terror to divide us brought us closer together . . .
And we'll be right by your side until the work is done.''
Just one month following the bombing, President Clinton told the
Nation that in the months ahead, our nation would look to Oklahoma
again to provide the vision and inspiration to appropriately
memorialize America's tragedy.
In response, Mayor Norick created the 350 member Murrah Federal
Building Memorial Task Force, which is known today as the Oklahoma City
Memorial Foundation.
The Foundation embraced the challenge of memorializing a national
tragedy so unprecedented in American history. We democratized the
memorial process by making it open and inclusive. There have been no
political, socio-economic or other barriers to participation. Most
importantly, we have actively solicited and encouraged and given great
deference to participation by family members and survivors in all
aspects of the memorial process. This memorial process has been
transforming and has contributed to the healing of our city, our state
and our nation, and most importantly, those most directly affected by
the tragedy. As one family member said--through the memorial process,
chaos has been transformed into hope and unity.
Incredibly, all votes on critical decisions in this process have
been unanimous, including the one for the adoption of the Memorial
Mission Statement, which came after several months of receiving input
from victims' families and survivors and other caring people from all
over the world. The opening lines of the Mission Statement are:
We come here to remember those who were killed, those who
survived and those changed forever. May all who leave here know
the impact of violence. May this Memorial offer comfort,
strength, peace, hope and serenity.
The Mission Statement requires that the Oklahoma City National
Memorial consist of an interactive learning museum, together with an
institute dedicated to the prevention of terrorism and violence and
finally a remembrance component. This last element was created by Hans
and Torrey Butzer and Sven Berg and was recently selected through an
international design competition which drew entries from all 50 states
and 23 countries. This design was chosen on the first secret ballot of
the Selection Committee by unanimous vote. It was subsequently approved
by unanimous vote at a joint meeting of the Board and the Families and
Survivors Committee of the Oklahoma City Memorial Foundation.
By its very nature, the April 19, 1995 bombing was an attack on the
American Government and our public servants, and, as such, it was an
attack on each American. Although the bombing occurred in Oklahoma
City, the national and international impact and reaction make it clear
that by no means should this be memorialized as just an Oklahoma City
or State of Oklahoma tragedy. Equally important is the Federal
character of the site of the attack and the significant number of the
victims and survivors who were innocent Federal public servants.
The Oklahoma City National Memorial will memorialize America's
Tragedy by preserving the memory of the victims and survivors of the
tragedy, by emphatically confirming the unification of spirit of all
Americans in the wake of disaster, and by sending a powerful message to
the world of the senselessness of terrorism as a means of effecting
societal or government change.
Although the response to the Oklahoma City bombing reminded the
world that Americans are capable of great compassion, selflessness and
unity when tragedy strikes, our response is not yet complete. We
respectfully request your participation in the memorialization of
America's tragedy by enacting H.R. 1849.
Thank you.
______
Statement of Hans Butzer, Designer, Cambridge, Massachusetts
Torrey and I will never forget the morning we heard on
Voice of America radio while in Berlin, that the Alfred P.
Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City had been bombed.
Although we were an ocean away, we felt shocked that such a
tragedy could occur on American soil. We also believed it to be
our duty to make some sort of contribution to the recovery
efforts.
The design we are presenting to you is our contribution,
and is guided primarily by the introductory paragraph of the
Memorial Foundation's Mission Statement:
We come here to remember those who were killed, those who
survived and those changed forever.
May all who leave here know the impact of violence.
May this memorial offer comfort, strength, peace, hope and
serenity.
With these words, the experience of visiting the Oklahoma City
Memorial begins. Whether traveling along Harvey Avenue or Robinson
Avenue or along Fifth Street, the first site of the Memorial Complex is
of the gates of time. Within the urban fabric, these gates provide a
powerful identity for the Memorial Complex and clearly indicate that
this portion of Fifth Street has been closed forever. The Eastern gate,
inscribed with the time ``9:01'', together with the Western Gate
``9:03'' frame the moment and place of explosion ``9:02.''
The gates also serve as a transition, both physical and
psychological, from the busy city streets to a meditative landscape
rich with soft edges and sounds.
Beneath the incription ``we come here to remember,'' one is drawn
through the gate's opening into the heart of the moment 9:02 eager to
tell its story.
The footprint of the former Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building to
the South is covered with soft green grass, sloping up toward the
warmth of the sun. The 168 empty chairs are on the grassy slope where
the building once stood, reminding us of those who died. While the
tragedy has affected the community and nation as a whole, the 168
individual chairs will remind us of the personal loss which resulted on
April 19, 1995.
The chairs' presence will ensure that future generations of
Americans will always remember these members of our community. The
chairs are constructed of a stone seat and back mounted atop a glass
block base which is inscribed with a victim's name. By day, the chairs
appear to float above their translucent base, just as our memories of
loved ones seem to float past at any given moment. By night, the glass
bases will be illuminated, representing beacons of hope which will
inspire Oklahoma City, its state and the Nation, to rebuild and prepare
for a better tomorrow.
The Survivor Tree, witness to the violence of moment, stands to the
north commemorating those who survived. Under its canopy, grassy
terraces step down in constrast to the sloping field of 168 chairs
beyond. Here, visitors may sit and find inspiration to live their lives
more meaningfully, and better appreciate the freedoms they as survivors
enjoy.
Rushing forth the city's edges to surround the Survivor Tree, is an
orchard of blossoming fruit trees which recognize those who helped.
Symbolic in their bearing of fruit, these trees allude to the
continuing life cycle of those rescued and their future generations.
The harvesting of the fruit in the fall would be the focus on annual
celebrations honoring those who helped and those who were rescued.
Nestled in the northwest corner of the orchard is a special place
for little helpers--the children. A series of chalkboards set in the
ground represents the many letters and drawings the children sent in
support, and provides a place for them to continue expressing their
thoughts and encouragement.
A long reflecting pool spans what was once Fifth Street. Gently
flowing water soothes the healing wound caused by the fiery blast. The
sounds of moving water provide a peaceful background to visitor's
thoughts. During the hot summer, the pool will provide cool relife. In
winter, its surface may freeze, reflecting the warm glow of the empty
chairs. Dark reflective stone will line the pool's surface, making it
difficult to see the bottom. Water will flow over the edges and
disappear into a thin channel running around the perimeter of the pool.
It is here at the water's edge that the areas of the empty chairs,
the Survivor Tree and its terraces, the fruit tree orchard meet. And as
visitors gaze at their own reflections, they see the faces of those
changed forever.
As you can see from our response, this event touched the world. It
is our hope that the world will be able to come to the site of this
event and gain an understanding of what happened on April 19th. I
respectfully urge your support of H.R. 1849, the bill to establish the
Oklahoma City National Memorial as a unit of the National Park System
and designate the Oklahoma City Memorial Trust.
______
Statement of Emmett E. ``Bud'' Welch, Family Member, Oklahoma City,
Oklahoma
Mr. Chairman and Members of the Committee. I am Bud Welch, my 23
year old daughter, Julie Marie Welch, was killed April 19, 1995, in the
Murrah Building Bombing.
Julie had graduated from Bishop McGuiness High School in 1990 after
being a foreign exchange student with Youth for Understanding. She
lived with a family in Pontevedra, Spain for one year between her
sophomore and junior year in high school.
She received a foreign language scholarship from Marquette
University and entered school there in August, 1990.
Julie had spent her sophomore year in college in Madrid at
Marquette's campus there. She received her degree in Spanish from
Marquette with a minor in French and Italian. Julie spoke Spanish,
French, Portuguese, Italian, English and knew enough German to travel.
She had graduated from Marquette University in Milwaukee in 1994.
Julie was the Spanish translator for Social Security. I brought
Julie back to Oklahoma 4th of July weekend in 1994. She was employed by
Social Security the following month, she was hired under the Federal
Government Honors Program.
Julie Marie was my only daughter, my pal, my confidant and my
friend.
I was to meet Julie at 11:30 that fateful Wednesday morning for our
weekly lunch at the Athenian Greek Restaurant across the street from
the Murrah Building and west of the Survivor Tree.
It became very important that the old faithful American Elm, now
known as the ``Survivor Tree'' be included in the planned Memorial.
That was Julie's favorite place to park and this tree survived the
blast that so many people did not. To this day, it is the only
``living'' thing left on that site.
Working closely with the Memorial process has helped me
tremendously in my healing. I look forward to that continuing with
dialog with strangers once our new beautiful Memorial is built.
I believe it should be a National Memorial with National Park
status because:
(1) The majority of the victims were Federal public servants.
(2) The crime happened on Federal property and stemmed from
what some believe were problems with Federal policies.
(3) The people of this nation and the people of the world
expect the United States of America to recognize this as a
national memorial.
I base that on the thousands of cards, letters and telephone calls
that I have personally received from more than 30 foreign countries,
every province in Canada and every State in the Union.
Let's please don't let the world down. I urge you to support H.R.
1849 to establish the Oklahoma City National Monument and designate the
Oklahoma City Memorial Trust.
Mr. Chairman, thank you for this opportunity. I would be happy to
answer any questions at this time.
______
Statement of Don Rogers, A.P. Murrah Federal Building Manager
(Retired), General Services Administration
I wish to thank Congressman Frank Lucas and the members of this
Committee for me to testify on an issue I feel so strongly about.
INTRODUCTION
I am Don Rogers, Manager of the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building
in Oklahoma City on April 19, 1995. I am a Survivor of the bombing,
injured in the building on the first floor, near the center of the
building.
BACKGROUND
I would like to tell you part of my story, which occurred on a date
that so many of us, will never forget.
The moment the bomb detonated, I was standing near the elevator
lobby, having just completed a meeting which was held in my office
(situated against the glass wall which was the north wall of the
building where the Ryder truck was parked). I had walked out into the
hall after the meeting to continue a side discussion with Robert (Bob)
Dennis, Court Clerk of the US District Court, Western District.
Quickly, we were engulfed in total darkness--unable to see or breathe.
I was choking for air when I came to the realization that someone was
calling my name. Somewhat disoriented and unable to see, I reached
toward the direction of the voice. In doing so, I was able to grasp
Bob's arm. Together, we climbed over debris trying to reach safety. It
was as if we were crawling through a cave, except there was no air to
breathe nor light to see. Blocked exits and hallways, which we found
to, no longer existed were conditions that further complicated our
efforts to find light and fresh air. Beginning to feel somewhat
``entombed,'' we became determined to find a way out. While we were
attempting to get out of the building, Bob and I rescued two other
ladies (Dot Hill and Pam Lacy) who were confusedly moving toward the
interior of the building. We were able to help them through and we
found a way through the rubble, to the west side of the building where
we were able to exit in an area that before had been a loading dock.
We quickly realized that things were not much better outside of the
building. The north half of the building had been blown inward; a large
gaping hole was all that remained of that portion. On the street about
twenty-five cars were on fire. I was confused as to what could have
possibly occurred to cause such damage. Realization hit me with the
impact of yet another blast--I was immediately concerned for my
employees, the children in the daycare, and the tenants of the building
I was responsible for managing--where were they? I ran to the south of
the building to gain entrance and found men using make-shift ladders
from the playground fences to climb into the building, trying to rescue
those trapped inside. The east stairwell was blocked by rubble so I
couldn't continue to higher floors--I went back to the plaza level.
Looking upward trying to determine the best approach I saw a man pinned
against the inner south wall, hanging out of the building. The upper
half of his head was missing, the lower portion of his body was
completely crushed, yet he raised his head asking for assistance,
``Help me. Please help me.'' A moment later, his life was gone. The
Federal workers (survivors of the A.P. Murrah Building and those who
immediately ran to help from the US Courthouse) who were closest and
trying to pull him free realized that their efforts for this man were
in vain . . . nothing could be done. Although my eyes were full of
smoke, dust, and debris, l have a clear memory of viewing this man's
losing struggle with death.
By this time, members of the fire department were arriving to
assist in the rescue efforts already underway. Again I attempted to
enter the building in an effort to find employees, children, and
tenants. Firefighters saw me and insisted that I needed medical
attention for my eyes and the multiple lacerations.
I was treated at the local hospital that day, released in the
afternoon, and returned to the destroyed building to help rescue
workers search for survivors and assist in identifying bodies. I
remember thinking that this couldn't be the same building that I had
worked in for nineteen years, it was difficult identify anything. It
seemed as though we were going down into a large cavern with debris
heaped on the ground and hanging from the ceilings.
I remember seeing one body that did not resemble a person; it was a
mass of flesh and material embedded in rock and crevices. The fireman
with me at the time told me that this was a lady wearing a black dress
imprinted with roses. I remembered that I had seen this woman as she
stepped off the elevator, walking past me and toward the front doors
just moments before the blast. This is one of the many horrible
experiences I had on that day and the days to follow.
This has affected my family through me. My wife has informed me
(many times) that I awakened her in the middle of the night, telling
her that we needed to ``get out of the building.'' I still have
dreadful dreams and haunting memories every day--these vivid events
seem to replay over and over in my mind which causes me to question
``Why'' were so many killed? . . . I wonder ``Why''?
I attended the sentencing of Timothy McVeigh, the individual tried
and convicted by his peers as the person responsible for this
devastating act. It was difficult for survivors and family members
alike to see this man, convicted of this tragedy, cold-faced with no
remorse. This was a day that will not be forgotten by those affected by
the bombing--it seemed as though Mr. McVeigh reduced the tragedy to an
insignificant loss.
IMPORTANCE OF THE MEMORIAL
The innocent laughter of the children nor their footsteps (as well
as that of my friends and coworkers) will never be heard again.
Life's evening sun has set for 168 Americans, which will not rise
again on this earth. The contributions of these individuals' to their
families, communities, local churches and civic groups were ended
before any of them had the opportunity to do great things. However,
each of them was considered as ``great'' by family and friends;
therefore resulting in a great loss to our nation.
We wish to let the world know that violent acts must be prevented.
The proposed memorial would provide hope that future violent acts of
this magnitude can be prevented and serve as a reminder of how people
can (and should) reach out and care for one another with compassion.
We, as a nation--as a society, governed by citizens, feel an
urgency to construct an appropriate memorial in order to remember the
value of those who perished (infants, children, sisters/brothers,
parents, grandparents) the strength of the human spirit, and the loss
of innocence experienced by America on that day.
Unless we establish this memorial as a national monument to:
remember those who were killed, those who survived and those
changed forever, provide a place for people to gain an
understanding of the impact of violence, and provide a place
which offers comfort, strength, peace, and hope, the affliction
of this American tragedy will be unresolved.
I would like to take this opportunity to thank my wife, Joyce
Rogers, and Federal Executive Board Director, LeAnn Jenkins, for
assisting me in my efforts to testify before this Subcommittee.
______
Statement of Gary Marrs, Fire Chief, Oklahoma City, Oklahoma
Mr. Chairman and Members of the Subcommittee, I am Gary Marrs, the
Fire Chief for the Oklahoma City Fire Department. On behalf of the more
than 1,000 fire fighters in Oklahoma City and those from 43 fire
departments and a large num-
ber of law enforcement agencies that came from near and far to help in
the rescue and recovery efforts, I would like to thank you for this
opportunity to testify before you today.
As you know, at 9:02 a.m. on April 19, 1995, Oklahoma City was the
target of a senseless act of terrorism. Within a few seconds, all of
our lives were changed forever. The tragic loss of life and the
countless injuries were devastating to our community.
Seconds after the bombing, a massive response of public safety
agencies, health care providers and the general public occurred. The
first arriving fire department personnel from Station 1 were faced with
an overwhelming rescue operation. Buildings were damaged over a 60
square block area, and a large number of vehicles were on fire. Major
structural damage occurred in not only the Federal building, but in a
26-story, 400 unit apartment building, a six-story office building, a
three-story office building, a two-story building with a restaurant and
a basement across the street, and in several buildings in a four-block
area.
As we approached the scene, we began encountering debris in the
road several blocks away from the Murrah Federal Building site. Fire
fighters began walking in front of the apparatus to move the debris out
of the roadway. In addition, they began to encounter injured people
walking away from the blast. A number of our units began to immediately
treat injured survivors and quickly realized there were going to be
hundreds more.
Dozens of rescue and recovery workers formed human chains as we
began to pass victims from the building into the street. All
individuals rescued alive from the Murrah Federal Building and the
surrounding structures were rescued on the first day within the first
12 hours of the operation. Many of the rescues accomplished that day,
by Oklahoma City fire fighters and the hundreds who assisted them,
would have been dramatic events if they had happened individually. The
fact that they occurred as part of an incident of this magnitude
overshadowed the hundreds of individual acts of professionalism, and in
many cases heroism, that occurred that Wednesday in April and the days
that followed.
FEMA workers and 11 Urban Search and Rescue Task Force teams came
to Oklahoma City with hope they could help us find more survivors and
to help all of us. Today, spread out across the United States, each
rescuer has an understanding that this event was not just an Oklahoma
event . . . it was an event that touched the nation. It has reached
coast to coast.
The outpouring from people was unbelievable. From the wheelbarrows
filled with ice and drinks, to a national pizza chain onsite serving
more than 10,000 free pizzas, to a supply room filled with everything
from bandanas to rain suits to batteries. We would ask for something
and people would begin to bring it to the site. People donated clothes,
food, equipment, and supplies in record numbers to support the rescue
operations. If a request for some specialized service was made, such as
veterinarians for the search dogs, the response was immediate and
overwhelming. More than 1,000 cellular telephones were handed out, free
to emergency personnel and all the air time was donated by the
companies.
Establishing a National Park on the site of this attack is
appropriate to honor the victims, the survivors and the rescue and
recovery workers and to show the world the shining example of how a
community can come together to rise above adversity.
As Oklahoma City Police Chaplain Jack Poe has said since the
bombing, the Oklahoma Standard means a new level of caring. The
Oklahoma City National Memorial will do just that. Mr. Chairman, again,
thank you for giving me the opportunity to represent all of the brave
men and women who worked for 18 days under impossible circumstances on
behalf of our community and our nation.
______
Statement of Hon. Helen Chenoweth, a Representative in Congress from
the State of Idaho
I want to first thank Chairman Hansen for holding a hearing on H.R.
1849, a bill that would establish an Oklahoma City National Memorial,
and an Oklahoma City National Memorial Trust in memory of the victims
of the Oklahoma bombing tragedy.
Mr. Chairman, the bombing took the lives of 168 men, women and
children, injured more than 500 others and forever changed the life of
countless others. Establishing this memorial and trust fund to the
victims and the survivors of the Oklahoma bombing is the very least
Congress can do to help the citizens of Oklahoma and the Nation recover
from this terrible event. I am pleased that this memorial will be
unlike any other memorial in that it will be an interactive museum for
Americans now and in the future to learn and remember the lessons about
the need-
less loss of life and tremendous suffering that occurred in this wanton
act of violence. It will also stand as a testament to not only those
who lost their lives in this tragedy, but also to those many brave
individuals who took heroic risks to save lives from the dangerous
wreckage of what was left after the explosion.
I am looking forward to hearing the testimony of the Oklahoma
Congressional Delegation, who worked hard to put this excellent piece
of legislation together. Finally, I am also interested in hearing how
this unique trust fund and memorial, which will mostly be privately
funded, is going to be managed. Its success may prove as a template for
future memorials.
Again, I thank the Chairman for holding this hearing. What happened
in Oklahoma City on April 19, 1995 was a very dark day in our nation's
history. However, through legislative Acts such as H.R. 1849, perhaps
there is some good to be gained from the lessons learned and the
bravery witnessed in the amazing aftermath of this experience.
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