    [House Hearing, 105 Congress]
    [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]

                   H.R. 1787, CONSERVATION OF ASIAN ELEPHANTS

    =======================================================================

                                    HEARING

                                   before the

          SUBCOMMITTEE ON FISHERIES CONSERVATION, WILDLIFE AND OCEANS

                                     of the

                             COMMITTEE ON RESOURCES
                            HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                           ONE HUNDRED FIFTH CONGRESS

                                 FIRST SESSION

                                       on

                                   H.R. 1787
      TO ASSIST IN THE CONSERVATION OF ASIAN ELEPHANTS BY SUPPORTING AND
    PROVIDING FINANCIAL RESOURCES FOR THE CONSERVATION PROGRAMS OF NATIONS
       WITHIN THE RANGE OF ASIAN ELEPHANTS AND PROJECTS OF PERSONS WITH
         DEMONSTRATED EXPERTISE IN THE CONSERVATION OF ASIAN ELEPHANTS

                                   __________

                         JULY 31, 1997, WASHINGTON, DC

                                   __________

                               Serial No. 105-49

                                   __________

               Printed for the use of the Committee on Resources

                          U.S. GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE
     45-140 CC                   WASHINGTON : 1998
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                       For sale by the U.S. Government Printing Office
     Superintendent of Documents, Congressional Sales Office, Washington, DC 20402

                             COMMITTEE ON RESOURCES

                          DON YOUNG, Alaska, Chairman
    W.J. (BILLY) TAUZIN, Louisiana       GEORGE MILLER, California
    JAMES V. HANSEN, Utah                EDWARD J. MARKEY, Massachusetts
    JIM SAXTON, New Jersey               NICK J. RAHALL II, West Virginia
    ELTON GALLEGLY, California           BRUCE F. VENTO, Minnesota
    JOHN J. DUNCAN, Jr., Tennessee       DALE E. KILDEE, Michigan
    JOEL HEFLEY, Colorado                PETER A. DeFAZIO, Oregon
    JOHN T. DOOLITTLE, California        ENI F.H. FALEOMAVAEGA, American
    WAYNE T. GILCHREST, Maryland             Samoa
    KEN CALVERT, California              NEIL ABERCROMBIE, Hawaii
    RICHARD W. POMBO, California         SOLOMON P. ORTIZ, Texas
    BARBARA CUBIN, Wyoming               OWEN B. PICKETT, Virginia
    HELEN CHENOWETH, Idaho               FRANK PALLONE, Jr., New Jersey
    LINDA SMITH, Washington              CALVIN M. DOOLEY, California
    GEORGE P. RADANOVICH, California     CARLOS A. ROMERO-BARCELO, Puerto
    WALTER B. JONES, Jr., North              Rico
        Carolina                         MAURICE D. HINCHEY, New York
    WILLIAM M. (MAC) THORNBERRY, Texas   ROBERT A. UNDERWOOD, Guam
    JOHN SHADEGG, Arizona                SAM FARR, California
    JOHN E. ENSIGN, Nevada               PATRICK J. KENNEDY, Rhode Island
    ROBERT F. SMITH, Oregon              ADAM SMITH, Washington
    CHRIS CANNON, Utah                   WILLIAM D. DELAHUNT, Massachusetts
    KEVIN BRADY, Texas                   CHRIS JOHN, Louisiana
    JOHN PETERSON, Pennsylvania          DONNA CHRISTIAN-GREEN, Virgin
    RICK HILL, Montana                       Islands
    BOB SCHAFFER, Colorado               RON KIND, Wisconsin
    JIM GIBBONS, Nevada                  LLOYD DOGGETT, Texas
    MICHAEL D. CRAPO, Idaho

                         Lloyd A. Jones, Chief of Staff
                       Elizabeth Megginson, Chief Counsel
                  Christine Kennedy, Chief Clerk/Administrator
                    John Lawrence, Democratic Staff Director
                                     ------

          Subcommittee on Fisheries Conservation, Wildlife and Oceans

                        JIM SAXTON, New Jersey, Chairman
    W.J. (BILLY) TAUZIN, Louisiana       NEIL ABERCROMBIE, Hawaii
    WAYNE T. GIL.CHREST, Maryland        SOLOMON P. ORTIZ, Texas
    WALTER B. JONES, Jr., North          FRANK PALLONE, Jr., New Jersey
        Carolina                         SAM FARR, California
    JOHN PETERSON, Pennsylvania          PATRICK J. KENNEDY, Rhode Island
    MICHAEL D. CRAPO, Idaho
                        Harry Burroughs, Staff Director
                        John Rayfield, Legislative Staff
                   Karen Steuer, Democratic Legislative Staff

                                C O N T E N T S

                                  ----------
                                                                       Page

    Hearing held July 31, 1997.......................................     1

    Statement of Members:
        Abercrombie, Hon. Neil, a Representative in Congress from the
          State of Hawaii............................................     2
        Farr, Hon. Sam, a Representative in Congress from the State
          of California..............................................     4
        Miller, Hon. George, a Representative in Congress from the
          State of California, prepared statement of.................     2
        Saxton, Hon. Jim, a Representative in Congress from the State
          of New Jersey..............................................     1
            Prepared statement of....................................     2
        Young, Hon. Don, a Representative in Congress from the State
          of Alaska, prepared statement of...........................     4

    Statement of Witnesses:
        Dinerstein, Dr. Eric, Chief Scientist and Director,
          Conservation Science Program, World Wildlife Fund..........    16
            Prepared statement of....................................    55
        Ireland, Andy, Senior Vice President, Feld Entertainment,
          Inc.,......................................................    26
            Prepared statement of....................................    73
        Jones, Marshall P., Assistant Director for International
          Affairs, United States Fish and Wildlife Service;
          accompanied by David Ferguson, Chief, Branch of Middle
          East, South Asia, and South African International Affairs,
          United States Fish and Wildlife Service....................     5
            Prepared statement of....................................    34
        Maple, Dr. Terry, President/CEO, Zoo Atlanta.................    13
            Prepared statement of....................................    36
        Pearl, Dr. Mary, Executive Director, Wildlife Preservation
          Trust International........................................    25
            Prepared statement of....................................    39
        Stuwe, Dr. Michael, Research Associate, Conservation and
          Research Center, Smithsonian Institute.....................    23
            Prepared statement of....................................    64
        Sukumar, Dr. Raman, Chairman, IUCN/SSC Asian Elephant
          Specialist Group...........................................    14
            Prepared statement of....................................    37

    Additional material supplied:
        Johnsingh, Dr. A.J.T., and A. Christy Williams, Wildlife
          Institute of India, prepared statement of..................    79
        Memorandum...................................................    50
        Text of H.R. 1787............................................    41

    HEARING ON H.R. 1787, TO ASSIST IN THE CONSERVATION OF ASIAN ELEPHANTS
     BY SUPPORTING AND PROVIDING FINANCIAL RESOURCES FOR THE CONSERVATION
    PROGRAMS OF NATIONS WITHIN THE RANGE OF ASIAN ELEPHANTS AND PROJECTS OF
       PERSONS WITH DEMONSTRATED EXPERTISE IN THE CONSERVATION OF ASIAN
                                   ELEPHANTS

                                  ----------

                            THURSDAY, JULY 31, 1997

            House of Representatives, Subcommittee on Fisheries
                Conservation, Wildlife and Oceans, Committee on
                Resources, Washington, DC.
        The Subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:08 a.m., in
    room 1334, Longworth House Office Building, Hon. Jim Saxton
    (chairman of the Subcommittee) presiding.

    STATEMENT OF HON. JIM SAXTON, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM
                        THE STATE OF NEW JERSEY

        Mr. Saxton. Good morning. The Subcommittee will come to
    order. The purpose of today's hearing is to discuss H.R. 1787,
    the Asian Elephant Conservation Act of 1997, which Mr.
    Abercrombie and I and 17 other members have introduced on June
    4, 1997.
        The fundamental purposes of this legislation are twofold:
    one, to create an Asian Elephant Conservation Fund, and, two,
    to authorize the Congress to appropriate up to $5 million per
    year to this fund to finance various conservation projects for
    each of the next five fiscal years.
        This legislation is modeled after the highly successful
    African Elephant Conservation Act of 1988 and the Rhinoceros
    and Tiger Conservation Act of 1994. The new authorization would
    be separate from those funds appropriated for African
    elephants, rhinos, and tigers.
        Under the terms of H.R. 1787, the Secretary of Interior
    would carefully evaluate the merits of each proposed
    conservation project, select those that best enhance the future
    of the Asian elephant, and give priority to those projects
    whose sponsors demonstrate the ability to match some portion of
    the Federal funds.
        In addition, the bill stipulates that the Secretary may
    accept donations to assist Asian elephants and shall spend no
    more than 3 percent of the amount appropriated to administer
    the fund.
        Unless immediate steps are taken to conserve this
    magnificent animal, it will surely continue to disappear from
    much, if not most, of its traditional habitat. We cannot allow
    the Asian elephant, which has such a direct impact on so many
    other species, to become extinct.
        The goal of H.R. 1787 is to stop the decline and hopefully
    rebuild the population stocks of this irreplaceable species by
    financing with a small amount of Federal money a limited number
    of conservation projects. I look forward to hearing from our
    witnesses. And at this time, let me turn to the Ranking Member,
    Mr. Abercrombie.
        [Statement of Mr. Saxton follows:]

      Statement of Hon. Jim Saxton, a Representative in Congress from the
                              State of New Jersey

        Good morning. The Subcommittee will come to order. The
    purpose of today's hearing is to discuss H.R. 1787, the Asian
    Elephant Conservation Act of 1997, which Mr. Abercrombie and I
    and seventeen other Members introduced on June 4, 1997.
        The fundamental purposes of this legislation are twofold:
    (1) to create an Asian Elephant Conservation Fund; and (2) to
    authorize the Congress to appropriate up to $5 million per year
    to this Fund to finance various conservation projects for each
    of the next five fiscal years.
        This legislation is modeled after the highly successful
    African Elephant Conservation Act of 1988 and the Rhinoceros
    and Tiger Conservation Act of 1994. The new authorization would
    be separate from those funds appropriated for African
    elephants, rhinos and tigers.
        Under the terms of H.R. 1787, the Secretary of the Interior
    would carefully evaluate the merits of each proposed
    conservation project, select those that best enhance the future
    of the Asian elephant, and give priority to those projects
    whose sponsors demonstrate the ability to match some portion of
    Federal funds. In addition, the bill stipulates that the
    Secretary may accept donations to assist Asian elephants and
    shall spend no more than 3 percent of the amount appropriated
    to administer the Fund.
        Unless immediate steps are taken to conserve this
    magnificent animal, it will surely continue to disappear from
    much, if not most, of its traditional habitat. We cannot allow
    the Asian elephant, which has such a direct impact on so many
    other species, to become extinct. The goal of H.R. 1787 is to
    stop the decline and hopefully rebuild the population stocks of
    this irreplaceable species by financing with a small amount of
    Federal money a limited number of conservation projects.
        I look forward to hearing from our witnesses, some of whom
    have traveled great distances to be here today.

        [H.R. 1787 may be found at end of hearing.]
        [Memorandum may be found at end of hearing.]

        STATEMENT OF HON. NEIL ABERCROMBIE, A REPRESENTATIVE IN
                   CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF HAWAII

        Mr. Abercrombie. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I have
    a statement from the ranking member, Mr. Miller, which I would
    like permission to submit for the record at this point.
        Mr. Saxton. Without objection.
        [Statement of Mr. Miller follows:]

    Statement of Hon. George Miller, a Representative in Congress from the
                              State of California

        I would like to thank Mr. Saxton and Mr. Abercrombie for
    taking the initiative in sponsoring H.R. 1787, the Asian
    Elephant Conservation Act of 1997, and in holding this hearing.
    I am sure we will hear testimony about the threatened status of
    Asian elephants throughout Asia, and how this legislation can
    play an important role in the protection of this species.
        The need for legislation such as the Asian Elephant
    Conservation Act of 1997 has greatly increased due to the
    recent decision by the Convention on International Trade in
    Endangered Species of Flora and Fauna (CITES) to down list
    several popu-

    lations of African elephants as well as to allow a one-time
    ivory sale in the near future. Many countries, including many
    in Africa and Asia that still harbor populations of wild
    elephants; scientists; and non-governmental organizations have
    expressed their concern that this decision will result in an
    increase in elephant poaching throughout all elephant range
    states. This legislation should help provide the infrastructure
    necessary to prevent such an increase in Asia.
        The successful implementation of the recent CITES decision
    to down list elephants will depend upon the members of the
    Resources Committee continuing to assume a leadership role in
    protecting elephants and other wildlife by creating innovative
    funding mechanisms, and effective wildlife conservation and
    protection programs. H.R. 1787 is but one example of the many
    types of programs that will be needed to protect elephants
    throughout the world under the new CITES regime.
        In another example of environmental leadership, this week I
    and 40 of my colleagues including Mr. Abercrombie, one of the
    sponsors of the Asian Elephant Conservation Act, introduced the
    Endangered Species Recovery Act. ESRA recognizes that U.S.
    actions overseas can play a major role in conserving endangered
    and threatened species--or can contribute to moving them closer
    to extinction. The legislation would require that Federal
    agencies consult with the Fish and Wildlife Service or the
    National Marine Fisheries Service before taking any action that
    might undermine the recovery of a threatened or endangered
    foreign species.
        All efforts to protect endangered species are important and
    as such, H.R. 1787 deserves our support. I look forward to
    hearing the testimony from our panel speakers, and thank them
    for their efforts to conserve Asian elephants.

        Mr. Abercrombie. Mr. Chairman, I believe that you have
    succinctly summarized all the elements associated with this
    legislation. In particular, I think that it is important to
    recognize, and I think we do in the persons of Mr. Jones and
    Mr. Ferguson, that the responsibility of the United States of
    America and, by extension, the responsibility of our overall
    Committee and this Subcommittee is not just national but
    international in scope.
        The United States has been given by fate and history the
    responsibility of taking a lead role with respect to the
    preservation and protection of species not only in this country
    but across the world. We know, of course, that species are
    interconnected.
        We are all interconnected and that borders, as such--that
    is to say geographic borders--political borders--even regional
    considerations, are not the sole criterion, let alone the
    scientific basis, for making decisions with respect to species
    preservation and protection.
        So this Committee--this Subcommittee I should say, Mr.
    Chairman, particularly when it comes to questions of
    transnational considerations I think has taken a lead under
    your leadership with respect to understanding the relationships
    of species throughout the world. And to the extent and degree
    the United States of America can participate on a worldwide
    basis in this activity, I think that it is our obligation and
    opportunity.
        And I am delighted to be here with you today and to be a
    co-sponsor of this bill. I look forward to the Asian Elephant
    Conservation Act being, if you will, the next step after the
    original Act where the African elephant was concerned in
    proving that there can be success international cooperation
    which hopefully will extend into other political and social
    areas as well. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
        Mr. Saxton. I thank the gentleman from Hawaii. We have been
    joined by the distinguished gentleman from California, Mr.
    Farr, who I believe also may have an opening statement.

     STATEMENT OF HON. SAM FARR, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM
                        THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA

        Mr. Farr. Well, thank you very much. I don't have an
    opening statement, more of an observation and comment, Mr.
    Chairman, and I appreciate you having this hearing on this very
    interesting issue.
        I think I feel as you do and others do on this Committee
    that these breeding programs, if they indeed support animals in
    the wild, are appropriate. The concern I have, and as we get
    into the discussion today and as we draft the bill--get into
    the markup, I hope that none of the moneys that become
    appropriated from these funds would be used for captive
    breeding programs if there is no possibility of reintroduction
    of the animals into the wild.
        I don't think we ought to be breeding animals in sustained
    captivity and use taxpayers' moneys to do that, that
    essentially be used for commercial purposes. And I don't think
    the moneys ought to go to organizations or entities that breed
    elephants for commercial purposes. And I hope you will keep
    that in consideration.
        As we ban the import of animals from the wild, what we are
    doing is then wanting to increase the stock in a lot of areas.
    And what we do is we use--it ends up that we end up even with
    zoos selling their stock for commercial purposes. And I hope
    that that is not the intent and that we prohibit any moneys
    from being used for that kind of purpose. Thank you.
        [Statement of Mr. Young follows:]

      Statement of Hon. Don Young, a Representative in Congress from the
                                State of Alaska

        Mr. Chairman, as a cosponsor of H.R. 1787, I am pleased
    that you are holding this hearing on our legislation to create
    an Asian Elephant Conservation Fund.
        This measure is modeled after the highly successful African
    Elephant Conservation Act of 1988 and the Rhinoceros and Tiger
    Conservation Act of 1994. It will authorize up to $5 million
    per year to be appropriated to the Department of the Interior
    to fund various projects to conserve the Asian elephant.
        This flagship species of the Asian continent is in grave
    danger of extinction. According to international experts, there
    are less than 45,000 Asian elephants living in the wild. On a
    daily basis, these animals face the loss of their forest
    habitat, poachers who kill them for their bones, hide, ivory
    and meat, capture for use in Burma's timber industry, and
    conflicts between elephants and man. While Asian elephants are
    found in 13 countries in South and Southeast Asia, nearly half
    of the wild population reside in India. Unless immediate steps
    are taken to help conserve this species, it will continue to
    disappear from its historic habitat.
        By enacting this legislation, it is my hope that the
    Department of the Interior will fund projects to update census
    figures, monitor known populations of Asian elephants, assist
    in anti-poaching efforts, develop improved conservation
    management plans, translocate highly endangered elephants, and
    educate the public on the value of protecting this species.
        This small but critical investment of U.S. taxpayer money
    will be matched by private funds and will significantly improve
    the likelihood that wild Asian elephants will exist in the 21st
    Century.
        We should not idly sit by and allow this magnificent animal
    to disappear from this planet. H.R. 1787 will not solve all of
    the problems facing the Asian elephant but it is a positive
    step in the right direction.

        Mr. Saxton. I thank the gentleman. We will now move to our
    first panel which is, of course, as Mr. Abercrombie noted, made
    up of Marshall Jones and Dave Ferguson, both of the U.S. Fish
    and Wildlife Service. Mr. Jones is Assistant Director for
    International Affairs, and Mr. Ferguson is Chief, Branch of
    Middle East, South Asia, and South African International
    Affairs. Mr. Jones, please proceed.

        STATEMENT OF MARSHALL P. JONES, ASSISTANT DIRECTOR FOR
    INTERNATIONAL AFFAIRS, UNITED STATES FISH AND WILDLIFE SERVICE;
     ACCOMPANIED BY DAVID FERGUSON, CHIEF, BRANCH OF MIDDLE EAST,
      SOUTH ASIA, AND SOUTH AFRICAN INTERNATIONAL AFFAIRS, UNITED
                    STATES FISH AND WILDLIFE SERVICE

        Mr. Jones. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have a written
    statement which I would like to ask your permission to have
    entered into the record. I will try to be brief in my remarks.
        Mr. Chairman, when it comes to the Asian elephant, I think
    the important word to focus in on is opportunity. Right now, we
    are missing those opportunities to be a positive force for
    conservation from the U.S. Government because we don't have a
    specific authorization or a specific program. We have a lot of
    projects which in one way or another have benefited Asian
    elephants.
        On my right is Dave Ferguson, who administers our program
    in India, which uses Indian rupees, which have accumulated and
    are dedicated to wildlife purposes--we have had a 10-year study
    of Asian elephants under that program, for example.
        I also have with me here, Dr. Susan Lieberman from our
    CITES Management Authority. She and Mr. Mark Phillips, who
    administers our African elephant program, are involved also in
    our CITES implementation where we have done things that will
    benefit Asian countries in terms of their CITES implementation.
        We have some indirect benefits to Asian elephants from our
    rhino-tiger program. Fred Bagley, who administers that program,
    is also here working with Dave. But, Mr. Chairman, we don't
    have any specific way to provide direct assistance to countries
    outside India if they come to us to ask for help with, for
    example, dealing with Asian elephant habitat needs; surveys of
    the population; work with local communities to help find ways
    to resolve conflicts between elephants and local villagers.
        We don't have a specific authorization, and we don't have a
    source right now for a program that will enable us to be a
    partner with all of the other organizations that are
    represented here today, many of whom are already very active in
    doing what they can to help. So, Mr. Chairman, we think that is
    a missed opportunity.
        On the other hand, thanks to you and to Mr. Abercrombie and
    the other co-sponsors of this bill, what you have put before us
    now is a chance to capitalize on an opportunity; for us to step
    forward to work in partnership with the range countries where
    Asian elephants occur; with nongovernmental organizations; with
    the corporate sector, like Ringling Bros., organizations that
    are genuinely interested in the conservation of Asian elephants
    in their native habitat.
        Mr. Chairman, we are prepared to do our best to take
    advantage of that opportunity, to work with you and this
    Subcommittee, with the Congress as a whole and with all of
    these partners if this bill is enacted.
        You will hear later today, Mr. Chairman, from a number of
    organizations that can tell you about the plight of the Asian
    elephant. I think it is also very nicely dramatized in the
    graphics that we have here today.
        Something else that really affected me, Mr. Chairman, is
    that very recently I had the opportunity to go through the
    exhibit that is in the lower level of the National Gallery of
    Art right now on the Angkor civilization of Cambodia. And in
    the very last room of that exhibit there is a statue right in
    the center of the room. It sits on a pedestal so that it is
    just about at the height of your eyes. It is a statue of the
    god, Ganesha, which has the body of a human but the head of an
    elephant.
        And, Mr. Chairman, I stood there for a few minutes very
    recently when I was there at the exhibit just looking at that
    statue. And that statue looks so powerful you almost feel like
    it could leap right off the pedestal and run through the room.
    And I thought about what that meant, Mr. Chairman. An artisan
    almost a thousand years ago was inspired by the power and the
    grace and the beauty of the Asian elephant to make that
    sculpture and has given us that feeling that he or she had in
    carving it.
        And I was even more affected, Mr. Chairman, when I found
    out that the name Ganesha means the resolver of difficulties.
    And I thought what you have done here with this bill, Mr.
    Chairman, has given us in the executive branch the opportunity
    to be resolvers of difficulties ourselves.
        And so we think that the spirit of that Asian elephant god
    is what should motivate all of us to be resolvers of
    difficulties, to work together, to extend a helping hand to the
    people in Asian countries who need our help to conserve this
    precious resource, and we are prepared to do our best to
    implement this bill if it is enacted into law. Mr. Chairman,
    with that, I think I will close and be prepared to answer any
    questions that you may have.
        [Statement of Mr. Jones may be found at end of hearing.]
        Mr. Saxton. Thank you very much, Mr. Jones. I can tell by
    your testimony how dedicated you are to these issues--not just
    your testimony, but by your history of your activities in these
    matters, and we appreciate that very much. We know that these
    programs that we put into law work because folks like you and
    Mr. Ferguson are here to see to it that they are implemented in
    an effective way, and we appreciate that. Mr. Ferguson.
        Mr. Ferguson. I have no comments at this time. No. Thank
    you.
        Mr. Saxton. OK. Then we will begin with some questions. Mr.
    Farr brought up an interesting subject which, frankly, I had
    not contemplated, and that is whether or not we are somehow
    helping to subsidize commercial enterprise. And I think this
    kind of leads me to a series of questions.
        Obviously, the $5 million, if it is to be appropriated in
    each of the 5 years, or some part of that $5 million will go a
    long way toward providing a spark I suspect to encourage a
    variety of other entities to become involved in the
    conservation program and those efforts by other governments, by
    other conservation groups. And I suspect that in some cases we
    are hoping to encourage the participation of commercial
    enterprises in the conservation project as well.
        So can you describe for us how you see these moneys being
    used and the relationship that they will have to other
    countries, other conservation groups, and other commercial
    enterprises?
        Mr. Jones. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. First of all, Mr.
    Chairman, I would note that the bill itself says that its
    purpose is to provide for the conservation of Asian elephants,
    and it has a definition which we think is very well-
    constructed. It is a definition that uses concepts which are
    already found in other legislation tracing back to the
    Endangered Species Act and the African Elephant Act and the
    Rhino and Tiger Act and probably others too.
        So I think the bill itself, first of all, sets a very clear
    ground rule that any project we would approve must contribute
    to the conservation of the species, and there are a number of
    specific activities which are defined within the bill as
    constituting conservation.
        Now, Mr. Chairman, we are definitely not prejudiced against
    commercial enterprises, and we are looking forward to having
    opportunities to work with them. Those joint efforts would be--
    need to be ones that fit within the definition and the scope of
    the bill, and that is conservation of the species.
        We also see a tremendous role, of course, for
    nongovernmental organizations; not only nongovernmental
    organizations in the United States such as the ones that will
    be testifying and the ones that have helped bring this bill
    along, but also sometimes smaller nongovernmental organizations
    within the range countries themselves, ones that are sort of
    grassroots organizations.
        There is an opportunity we think for everyone to
    participate in this. There are international controls on
    commercial trade in species that are listed under CITES, the
    Convention on International Trade and Endangered Species.
    Appendix I of CITES generally prohibits commercial trade.
        On the other hand, there are legitimate exceptions in CITES
    for species that have been bred in captivity and meet certain
    standards, and we have been trying to work with, for example,
    the circus community to find ways to be able to help them in
    their efforts with captive breeding and, where it is possible,
    to look ahead to legitimate trade under CITES that fits within
    the broad provisions.
        Commercial trade between two Asian countries for animals
    that would be used as beasts of burden probably would be and
    should be prohibited by CITES, and we would have no intention
    of being part of any program that was only for using elephants
    as commercial or work animals and didn't have a conservation
    aspect to it.
        Mr. Saxton. Mr. Farr----
        Mr. Farr. Mr. Chairman----
        Mr. Saxton. Go ahead, please.
        Mr. Farr. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Well, I am a
    little concerned with that response because I think it is
    pretty broad. You know, I am used to preserving the mountain
    lion that is not in my district and certainly the California
    condor. There is never anything in those programs where you do
    habitat preservation or management that allows for some
    commercial spinoffs of that, to allow to breed the mountain
    lions either or provide habitat so that they can be used for
    any kind of commercial purpose.
        And I think unless you really put the emphasis on
    reintroduction of the animals in the wild and preserving the
    wild, then the pur-

    pose for this legislation is inappropriate. I would like to see
    you tightening it up so that these captive breeding programs--
    that there isn't any--if there is no possibility of
    reintroducing the animals to the wild or protecting the wild,
    then we ought not to be funding that program. Private sector
    funding can take care of that.
        Mr. Saxton. Let me reclaim my time, and let me just pursue
    a couple of items on this point. It is not our intent, and I am
    sure it is not your intent, Mr. Jones, to subsidize a breeder
    of Asian elephants that has in the United States or elsewhere a
    facility which is intended to breed and raise Asian elephants
    for sale or strictly for commercial purposes. Is that correct?
        Mr. Jones. Yes, Mr. Chairman. This bill is focused on the
    conservation of the Asian elephant in its range country. And I
    would say, Mr. Farr, I don't disagree with anything that you
    have said. I said we were looking for ways that we could work
    with the private sector. That is separate from this bill. We
    have other ways that we work with the private sector where they
    are interested in contributing to the conservation of Asian
    elephants in their range countries.
        All of the grants that we would give under this program we
    would want to be focused on enhancing the conservation of Asian
    elephants in their range countries. That means protecting their
    habitat. It certainly does not mean that we would somehow be
    subsidizing or financing captive breeding operations, for
    example, in the United States.
        That is a completely separate thing. We do seek to work
    with circuses and other entities where we can to encourage
    responsible breeding in the United States, but that is a
    separate thing. And that is not something that would come under
    the scope of this bill.
        Mr. Saxton. Mr. Jones, let me just ask one other question.
    A very important part of the program as you see it, I assume,
    is trying to involve and encourage the participation of
    commercial enterprise, private sector investment.
        And, therefore, it would seem to me that we need to be very
    careful in addressing Mr. Farr's concerns not to exclude those
    folks who you seek to involve in the program from being
    involved because they are commercial and inclined to take part
    in a conservation effort.
        In other words, if we are to put in place language that
    prohibits the very activities that we are trying to encourage,
    we would be counterproductive. And I just want to make sure we
    all agree on that point.
        Mr. Farr. If I may, Mr. Chairman, I don't think we ought to
    use taxpayers' moneys to subsidize the breeding of elephants in
    captivity to be used for circuses or for shows. I mean, I don't
    think that is the intent of having that animal on this earth. I
    do believe in the idea of preserving the habitat, as we are
    with the condors or with other kinds of endangered species, and
    I applaud that.
        I think, frankly, you are going to have to buy up habitat,
    and we are going to have to protect it and manage it and give
    people economic training on how ecotourism can be a replacement
    for the subsistence economy that so many of these rangelands
    have to live on.
        Mr. Abercrombie. Mr. Chairman?
        Mr. Saxton. Mr. Abercrombie.
        Mr. Farr. I support that but I don't support, you know,
    subsidizing----
        Mr. Saxton. I think we are all agreeing. Mr. Abercrombie.
        Mr. Abercrombie. We are. Yes. If you would yield to me, Mr.
    Chairman, perhaps I can help relieve Mr. Farr's very legitimate
    concern. And perhaps, Mr. Jones, if you could engage in a bit
    of dialog with me, perhaps you as well, Mr. Ferguson. Both of
    you are aware--Mr. Jones, in particular--I believe you are
    aware of the hearing we had previously--an informational
    hearing--Asian elephant or information that came to us about
    habitat and clash, the competition for habitat between--
    particularly as urban areas expand in south Asia. You are
    familiar with this whole situation, are you not?
        Mr. Jones. Yes, sir. Although I didn't participate in that
    hearing, I am familiar.
        Mr. Abercrombie. But you understand the concept. Yes. Here
    is the point. As I said, Mr. Farr has a legitimate concern. The
    intent of this legislation and the way it is written is not to
    subsidize in any way, shape, or form commercial enterprise.
        However, in order to gain the cooperation of nations,
    regions, municipalities, areas, organizations, private sector,
    corporations, for that matter--you know, in other words, the
    whole range of social and economic infrastructure that is
    emerging in Asia, which, by definition, clashes with,
    confronts, constricts, restricts--any combination thereof--the
    Asian elephant in what might otherwise be its natural habitat,
    wanderings, existence.
        We have to encourage local entities, regional entities,
    whether they are political or social or economic or some
    combination, to work with us on this, to work with Dr. Sukumar
    and others in the scientific community and in the preservation
    community who might otherwise not have any leverage whatsoever
    to be able to withstand that kind of competition.
        The Asian elephant has always existed, has it not, in a
    context within which its contact with human beings is fairly
    frequent, fairly consistent. Now, in some instances, of course,
    domestication takes place. Right? And we know it takes use in
    logging. That may still have a very efficacious relationship.
    It may be that the Asian elephant will go the way of the draft
    horses of even my youth.
        Draft horses were still used to some degree when I was a
    young boy, but almost by definition at the time of my
    grandfather that use of draft horses had disappeared and they
    became--in order to preserve the draft horses. Are you familiar
    when I say a draft horse--one of the world's most magnificent
    animals?
        They made appearances at county fairs in what you call
    horse-pulling contests, the pulling of weight. I don't know if
    you have ever seen one. It is one of the great sights between
    human beings--I mean, relationships between human beings and
    animals that it is possible to see--a test of strength and
    cooperation and all the rest of it. But they had become
    anachronisms.
        My grandfather was very reluctant to give in to the
    internal combustion engine, and they actually delivered baked
    goods, for example, in Buffalo, New York, by horse-drawn carts
    right up past World War II, and he stayed with it as long as he
    could--stayed with the horses.
        Now, it may be the Asian elephant is going to be in that
    category of I am going to say an artifact, and I don't mean
    that in any kind of pejorative sense or any kind of sense where
    they end up being a statue in a display at the National
    Gallery. But in order to do that, we have got to make sure that
    we can attract the favorable attention of those who are being
    impacted by the clash, if you will, of Asian elephants and
    modernity throughout south Asia.
        I am sorry to have taken so long with this preamble, but I
    hope you see where I am going. I agree entirely with Mr. Farr,
    but we don't want to write legislation in such a way as to
    actually inhibit us being able to attract these other entities
    into supporting our conservation efforts. Is that making sense?
    You have these kinds of--is that the kind of thing you are
    doing now in India?
        Mr. Jones. Mr. Abercrombie, let me turn to Dave Ferguson in
    a moment to talk about some of the things we have done in
    India. But I would say that, in general, we are looking for
    partners who are committed to the same conservation goals that
    you are in the drafting of this bill. And those partners could
    be from the private sector.
        They can be other organizations in the private sector.
    Those can be nongovernmental organizations, and they certainly
    also could be commercial enterprises. But, of course, they have
    got to be committed to the conservation goals that are in the
    bill that you have drafted.
        Mr. Abercrombie. Yes. One of the ways we attracted people
    to help us with the African elephant was because--were hunters.
    They could see if everything worked out right here, perhaps
    they would be able to go back to hunting. Now, not everybody
    was in favor of that.
        But in order to get the broadest possible support--and I
    will state, Mr. Chairman, for the record, I think one of the
    reasons we succeeded and are succeeding where the African
    elephant was concerned is that the originators of the
    legislation with the African elephant were wise enough to see
    that by broadening the base of support that we would have a
    better chance at success.
        Mr. Jones. Mr. Abercrombie, I couldn't agree more. In terms
    of Asian elephants as work animals, you know a lot more about
    draft horses than I do, but I have seen them. They are
    magnificent. Asian elephants----
        Mr. Abercrombie. They are more than just commercials for
    Budweiser. My grandfather was the foreman on an eight-horse
    hitch. That is where you get the word teamster from--teams of
    horses--eight-horse hitch. They delivered the beer.
        Mr. Jones. Mr. Abercrombie, I don't know if elephants have
    ever delivered beer, but they certainly deliver other services,
    and that is an amazing relationship. I suspect that you are
    right over time when you go to countries in Asia where a few
    years ago they may have been doing this; today what you have
    got is a suburb or a city with people all carrying cellular
    phones in their hands. And those are probably not people who
    are thinking of Asian elephants anymore.
        Mr. Saxton. Mr. Farr would like to----
        Mr. Farr. One question.
        Mr. Saxton. One short, final thought.
        Mr. Farr. In your statement, you said none of this money
    would be spent in the United States. Is that correct?
        Mr. Jones. Mr. Chairman, I would not anticipate unless it
    was for some kind of a data base or something else that might
    be here, but our African elephant funds and our rhino and tiger
    funds, those funds are all spent either in the range countries
    or with international organizations that are devoted to
    conservation like the CITES secretariat or the IUCN, and I
    would anticipate the same with the Asian elephant.
        Mr. Farr. So these funds don't trickle down to the zoo
    breeding program?
        Mr. Jones. We have worked with zoos, but those were zoos
    that had programs in the range countries.
        Mr. Farr. So the incident that happened in the Portland Zoo
    where the Asian elephants were bred and have not had a very
    successful life thereafter, this money wouldn't reach entities
    like the Portland Zoo?
        Mr. Jones. Mr. Farr, unfortunately, I don't know enough
    about the Portland Zoo I think to comment on that, but we could
    take a look at that, and I certainly could give you----
        Mr. Farr. Well, they are one of the country's foremost zoos
    in breeding Asian elephants, and there has been a lot of
    problems with it, and that is what I am concerned about. You
    know, I think the best thing you can do is protect the habitat,
    and from then you have got at least rangeland in which
    elephants can survive. Without protecting the habitat, you are
    not going to protect them. Thank you.
        Mr. Saxton. Thank you very much. And I would like to thank
    Mr. Jones and Mr. Ferguson for being with us this morning.
        Mr. Abercrombie. Mr. Chairman?
        Mr. Saxton. Mr. Abercrombie for one quick, final thought.
        Mr. Abercrombie. No, no. I thought we were all working on
    your extended time. I am sorry. I had a couple of questions.
    They are fairly short, and we can submit some questions to you
    as well, I presume. You spoke about your ability to use
    currency that may have accumulated in the Treasury of the
    United States by the United States which stays in-country, and
    you cited India--rupees that from whatever base are under your
    jurisdiction or could be put under your jurisdiction by the
    President or by the Congress.
        Mr. Jones. Yes, sir.
        Mr. Abercrombie. Would you think it would be useful to
    write into this legislation, if it is possible, and I don't
    know--maybe it would take a separate bill--permission to
    transfer or change currency to promote studies, programs,
    support, et cetera, such as you now have in India into the
    currency of other nations in order to do this?
        The reason I say that is is that range doesn't necessarily
    respect borders. Habitat doesn't respect borders that are
    arbitrarily made by human beings. It might even be one day that
    we could get some kind of cooperation from Burma, that kind of
    thing. Would that be useful?
        I don't know if it can even be done in this particular
    legislation, but it would seem to me that it would be useful
    for you to have that kind of ability to be able to change
    currency or transfer currency. I am not even quite sure of the
    phrase I should use.
        Mr. Jones. Mr. Abercrombie, the program we have in India,
    you are right. Those are Indian rupees that are owed to the
    United States. They cannot be turned into dollars. There is a
    large amount of them, and the Department--is it the Treasury,
    Dave?--that has this program, and different agencies a number
    of years ago were able to make proposals for spending of that
    money.
        We got approval and a fund has been dedicated to this. The
    funds are going to run out. They are not endless. We have had
    programs in some other countries, and let me just have Dave say
    a very quick word about other countries that we have worked in,
    but I don't think any of those are Indian or Asian elephant
    range countries. Is that right, Dave?
        Mr. Ferguson. Well, just for clarification, these special
    foreign currencies that we have been discussing--Indian
    rupees--are part of the Public Law 83-480, the Agricultural
    Trade Development Assistance Act, which allows the transfer of
    surplus agricultural products to other countries. They pay for
    them in their local currencies.
        They are kept track of by the Department of Treasury, and
    when they reach a certain amount which is excess to the needs
    of the United States in that particular country, then they
    become available for various purposes which U.S. Federal
    agencies can take advantage of it.
        So the Endangered Species Act of 1973 has a specific phrase
    in it in Section 8[a] which deals with international
    conservation efforts allowing the Secretary of the Interior to
    utilize excess foreign currencies wherever they are available
    for enhancing the status of wildlife, particularly endangered
    species. So using----
        Mr. Abercrombie. Are those funds transferrable from one
    country to another? Because India might generate a lot of
    money, and Thailand may generate not as much or virtually
    nothing.
        Mr. Ferguson. Well, that is true. Over 20 some odd
    countries have come on the list and off the list, but these
    transactions are going on all of the time even now, but there
    are different categories of these funds. And the categories----
        Mr. Abercrombie. Anyways, I appreciate that. I don't want
    to take more time right now, but that is something we could
    usefully look at I think, Mr. Chairman, as a possibility for
    helping to get funding. Thank you, Mr. Ferguson. I didn't mean
    to cut you off, but we are under a little bit of time
    constraint.
        Mr. Saxton. Thank you very much, and thank you, Mr. Jones
    and Mr. Ferguson. And we are going to move on to our second
    panel at this point. It consists of Dr. Terry Maple, President
    and CEO of Zoo Atlanta; Dr. Raman Sukumar of the Center of
    Ecological Science of the Indian Institute of Science; and Dr.
    Eric Dinerstein, the Chief Scientist and Director of the
    Conservation Science Program at the World Wildlife Fund.
        And while these gentlemen are taking their places, I should
    have and neglected to ask unanimous consent that Chairman
    Young's statement be included in the record at the appropriate
    point after the opening statements that were given, and so I do
    so at this point.
        Welcome to three very well-known individuals, Dr. Maple,
    Dr. Sukumar, and Dr. Dinerstein. We are very pleased that you
    are here with us. We are, obviously, interested in your
    testimony and anxious to hear what you have to say this
    morning. So as soon as you are prepared, Dr. Maple, welcome
    back with us again, and the floor is yours.

        STATEMENT OF DR. TERRY MAPLE, PRESIDENT/CEO, ZOO ATLANTA

        Dr. Maple. Well, thank you very much. I might add that in
    addition to my own zoo, Zoo Atlanta, I am speaking today for
    the American Association of Zoos and Aquariums, and on behalf
    of AZA I would like to express my appreciation for the concern
    and interest that Chairman Saxton and this Subcommittee have
    historically shown for the conservation of threatened and
    endangered species. And I would especially like to thank the
    Chairman and Congressman Abercrombie for introducing this bill
    and thanking the Subcommittee members who have co-sponsored it.
        The AZA strongly supports this legislation. The AZA
    represents virtually every professionally operated zoological
    park, aquarium, oceanarium, and wild animal park in North
    America, as well as 6,500 individual members. More than 119
    million people visit the AZA's 180 accredited zoos and
    aquariums each year.
        In 1988, this Subcommittee recognized the serious threat
    the African elephant faced from poaching and loss of habitat by
    strongly supporting the African Elephant Conservation Act.
    While the Act's imposition of a ban on the importation of
    African ivory was important, the establishment of the African
    Elephant Conservation Fund has made the Act critical to the
    survival of the species.
        This fund is the only continuous source of money to assist
    African countries and organizations in their conservation
    efforts to protect and manage elephants. The fund has supported
    over 50 conservation projects in 17 range states to enhance
    habitat protection.
        Regrettably, the Asian elephant is in need of similar help.
    It faces serious threats, not just from ivory poaching, but
    from a greater threat--the loss of habitat due to rapidly
    expanding human populations.
        By creating the Asian Elephant Conservation Act and its
    subsequent fund, the United States will have the opportunity to
    once again demonstrate its leadership and commitment to
    wildlife conservation. The Asian elephant is a flagship species
    for the tropical forests of Asia. Securing its long-term
    viability will, in turn, assist in the conservation of many
    other animals, including tigers, rhinoceros, Asiatic wild dog,
    and others.
        Unlike the African elephant, whose populations range
    between 600,000 to 700,000, the Asian elephant population only
    numbers between 35,000 to 45,000 animals. And this population
    is highly fragmented throughout 13 countries. Only in four
    areas does the population consist of more than 1,000 animals.
        The goals of the Act and its subsequent fund would be the
    following: one, protection of the remaining elephant
    populations and their habitat; the establishment and management
    of specially pro-

    tected areas; reduction of captures from the wild, most notably
    in Burma; and promotion of effective community enforcement
    programs.
        This bill would focus on remedies that address human-
    elephant conflict resolution. The Act would give support to
    projects that accomplish one or more of the following: directly
    promoting wild elephant management practices; monitoring
    population trends; assessing annual ranging patterns;
    enforcement of CITES; encouraging law enforcement through
    community participation; translocating elephants; and the
    conduct of community outreach and education.
        Today, AZA institutions exhibit 155 Asian elephants. Asian
    and African elephants are magnificent creatures. They are
    difficult to exhibit, manage, and breed. They have complex
    social structures, at times rivaling those of humankind. They
    are extremely intelligent.
        You should know that zoos engage in three types of
    conservation--captive propagation, conservation in range
    countries, and conservation education in our local communities
    and in range countries. An example of the first type is the
    work that the San Diego Zoo and the LA Zoo did to save, breed,
    and reintroduce the California condor.
        As important as it is for our institutions to educate our
    visitors about the life patterns of the Asian elephant, it is
    equally important that resources be made available to protect
    the wild Asian elephant populations in its habitat.
        AZA strongly believes that H.R. 1787 should receive the
    full support of this Committee for the following reasons: it
    will provide competitive financing where it is needed most--in
    the wild to support protection, conservation, and management of
    threatened Asian elephants.
        It is focused and cost effective, yet flexible enough to
    address immediate needs for conservation. It will encourage
    donations from private sources. Many zoos, for example, will
    donate to this program--a fine example of public/private
    partnerships. And funding requests will be based on sound
    science. We thank you for the opportunity to endorse this bill.
        [Statement of Dr. Maple may be found at end of hearing.]
        Mr. Saxton. Dr. Maple, thank you very much. We will move
    now to Dr. Sukumar.

       STATEMENT OF DR. RAMAN SUKUMAR, CHAIRMAN, IUCN/SSC ASIAN
                       ELEPHANT SPECIALIST GROUP

        Dr. Sukumar. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for this opportunity
    to speak on behalf of the Asian elephant. The Asian elephant,
    which has shared a special bond with people for over 4,000
    years, now faces an uncertain future. Its total population in
    the wild and in captivity is under 10 percent of that of the
    African elephant.
        Of the estimated wild population of 50,000 elephants, about
    50 percent is found in a single country, India. Other important
    populations are seen in Burma, Indonesia, Sri Lanka, Thailand,
    and Malaysia. Its status is unclear in potentially important
    countries such as Laos, Cambodia, and Vietnam, although it is
    known that elephants are in relatively low numbers. Elephant
    populations in China, Bangladesh, Bhutan, and Nepal are
    relatively insignificant.
        Fewer than 10 populations, six of them in India, have over
    1,000 elephants each, a level I believe is needed to ensure its
    long-term viability. The majority of populations have much
    fewer numbers, often less than 100 or 50 elephants each, which
    are not viable even in the short term.
        There are several causes for the decline of the elephant in
    Asia, and other speakers have mentioned this. The loss and
    fragmentation of habitat due to expansion of cultivation,
    settlement, and developmental projects have squeezed elephant
    populations into small, unviable areas. And this is a process
    that occurs in countries such as Malaysia, Indonesia, India,
    and Sri Lanka.
        The loss of forest to agriculture occurs in a different
    context in northeastern India and countries such as Burma,
    Laos, and Cambodia. Here, slash-and-burn shifting cultivation
    on hill slopes has denuded forest cover considerably.
        The second major cause for the decline of the elephant is
    its capture and killing in large numbers. During the past
    century alone, up to 100,000 elephants have been captured in
    Asia. It is now certain that the extremely low densities and
    numbers of elephants in many southeast Asian countries,
    particularly the Indo-China region, is due to hunting of
    elephants for ivory, meat, skin, and other elephant products.
        Equally, if not more important, is the consumer demand for
    elephant products such as ivory from east Asian nations, in
    particular Japan. A new wave of ivory poaching is sweeping
    through Asia affecting countries such as India. Here, the
    selective poaching of male elephants for tusks has caused
    serious imbalances in the population structures. As the number
    of male elephants declines and sex ratios become unequal,
    genetic variation is lost to the detriment of the population.
        A socioeconomic dimension to the problem of conserving
    elephants is the impact of elephants on humans and their crops
    and property. As habitats become fragmented and elephant
    populations compressed, there is escalation of crop
    depredations and manslaughter by elephants.
        Several hundred people are killed by wild elephants each
    year, often when elephants enter crop fields and settlements at
    night in search of forage. The economic losses to crop damage
    by elephants run into several million dollars annually in Asian
    countries.
        The coming century will decide the ultimate fate of the
    Asian elephant and other creatures on this earth. Fortunately,
    with the elephant, the problems have been well identified and
    solutions available to ensure its survival and long-term
    conservation.
        Basically, I think there are four major aspects to the
    conservation of the elephant, three of which have to do with
    the wild populations and one with captive populations. These
    are maintaining viable, contiguous habitats of high quality
    through setting up of networks of protected areas; two,
    minimizing elephant-human conflicts through appropriate
    measures; three, controlling the poaching of elephants for
    ivory and other products; and, four--and this is important I
    believe because 30 percent of the total population of the Asian
    elephant is found in captivity in Asian countries--we have to
    properly manage the large numbers of captive elephants through
    proper health care, training, and use.
        Although the task is enormous, given the wide geographical
    spread of the species, there is urgent need to consolidate upon
    and expand the scope of various conservation projects being
    carried out on a small scale.
        Over the past two decades, the Asian Elephant Specialist
    Group has been the most active player in elephant conservation
    efforts in Asia. The considerable achievements of the AESG and
    other organizations and institutions have been made with very
    modest funding. The time has come to implement the conservation
    strategies which have evolved over the years, and this calls
    for much higher levels of funding from the international
    community.
        The irony that I personally see in the plight of the Asian
    elephant is that it is arguably the ultimate flagship species
    for conservation of biological and cultural diversity in Asia.
    The elephant is a keystone species in the tropical forests of
    south and southeast Asia, which are biologically one of the
    most diverse regions in the world.
        Conserving the wild elephant would automatically ensure
    that hundreds of thousands of plant and animal species would
    also be conserved in Asian tropical forests. The proper care
    and management of captive elephants in Asia would ensure that
    elements of the rich cultural heritage of this region would be
    preserved. We surely have a responsibility to saving the most
    magnificent of our fellow creatures. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        [Statement of Mr. Sukumar may be found at end of hearing.]
        Mr. Saxton. Thank you very much, Dr. Sukumar. Dr.
    Dinerstein.

    STATEMENT OF DR. ERIC DINERSTEIN, CHIEF SCIENTIST AND DIRECTOR,
           CONSERVATION SCIENCE PROGRAM, WORLD WILDLIFE FUND

        Dr. Dinerstein. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I am
    here on behalf of the World Wildlife Fund and its 1.2 million
    members to urge your support for this important legislation to
    help conserve Asian elephants.
        Over the past few months, we have heard a lot about the
    recent CITES meetings and newspaper articles filled about the
    plight of African elephants. And this hearing marks an
    important opportunity to really turn the spotlight on the much
    more endangered species of elephant, the Asian elephant.
        Those of us who are involved in Asian elephant conservation
    wish we had the problems that are faced in Africa where you
    still have over 650,000 individuals, who have large
    populations, and many populations that are more than 1,000
    individuals. There are far fewer elephants in Asia. There are
    far fewer individual populations with more than 1,000
    individuals, and the habitats are much more fragmented.
        We need to address conservation on several different
    fronts. The first thing that we need to do for Asian elephants
    is to undertake an exercise that we have recently done for
    tigers, and I have given the members of the Committee a series
    of maps that we have prepared on the distributions of Asian
    elephants, tigers, and rhinos.
        But we have recently published a book in collaboration with
    the Wildlife Conservation Society that takes the 160 areas
    where tigers occur across Asia and prioritizes them so we
    invest our efforts in the 25 areas that provide the greatest
    chance of conserving tigers for the long term.
        The fact is the same thing applies for elephants. We don't
    have the opportunity to conserve elephants in every place they
    occur. There are places where we are probably going to lose
    elephants over the next few decades. But there are places where
    we have a great chance if we do the right things now and use
    these funds appropriately to be strategic in where we make our
    investments.
        So we need the same sort of application of looking at where
    elephants occur, where we can mitigate poaching effects, and
    where the populations are largest and the best habitat quality
    to try to conserve them.
        And one of the things that you will notice if you look at
    the maps that we have provided for you is that there are many
    areas where elephants occur that are along the borders of
    countries. And this is because this is where some of the most
    intact and most biologically rich forests occur. So an
    important part of elephant conservation is going to be involved
    in transboundary efforts among the countries of Asia.
        We also need to look at other ways to find some solutions
    of having people live in close proximity to elephants. And I am
    proud to report about one solution to this that we are doing
    using U.S. taxpayers' money in the country of Nepal funded
    through a U.S. Aid program in the Biodiversity Conservation
    Network where we are using funds generated from a community
    based ecotourism program where tourists go and ride trained
    elephants to go and observe tigers and rhinos in a park in
    Nepal.
        In the first year of operation, we had 10,500 tourists take
    part in this, and the local communities who are subsistence
    farmers went from earning zero dollars in the first year to
    $280,000, half of which goes back to the national park and the
    other half goes back to supporting local community efforts like
    building schools and health posts.
        We also need to look at legislation that recycles some of
    the revenues generated by national parks back to local people.
    This is the appropriate economic incentive that will make
    people more willing to live next to tigers, rhinos, and
    elephants as their neighbors.
        We also need more appropriate and more effective scientific
    understanding of the dynamics of these populations that Dr.
    Sukumar has talked about, to track them and to understand which
    ones have the greatest viability over the long term.
        We know from our studies of African elephants how vital
    they are in the regeneration and maintenance of biodiversity of
    African tropical forests where in some forests, for example, in
    the Ivory Coast, that elephants disperse the seeds of 30
    percent of all the trees that live in those forests. So we have
    had a long example of co-evolution of elephants and their
    habitat that is vital to maintain.
        We think that it is very important to focus on these issues
    in Asia because we have 50 percent of the world's population
    living in perhaps 13 percent of the land area. And so if we can
    solve some of these problems using Asia as our prototype where
    you have high densities of people living around protected
    areas, this will have broad application to many other places
    around the world where we see burgeoning human populations
    encroaching on nature reserves where you still have a large
    intact megafauna that can come into conflict with local people.
    So solving these issues here is very appropriate.
        I would like to end with a nonscientific anecdote that I
    suppose follows after Mr. Abercrombie's story of the draft
    horses. This is a domesticated elephant story but one that we
    use in our research. For years, I worked with the Smithsonian
    Institution studying rhinoceros and tigers in Nepal, and one
    night we were radio tracking using radio telemetry a
    rhinoceros, a male that was following a female who was in heat.
        And I was doing this sitting on the back of a trained
    elephant, as purchase order by U.S. tax dollars for the
    Smithsonian project, that was trained to capture rhinos and
    capture tigers. We were following along with this elephant and
    following behind rhinos when all of a sudden in the middle of
    this--in the middle of the night at one in the morning the
    elephant stopped in its tracks. And the driver tried to get the
    elephant to go. He kept pushing it behind the ears which is
    their gas pedal, but the elephant refused to budge and the
    rhinos were getting away.
        Finally, the elephant took two steps backward and put its
    trunk down and picked up my databook that I had all the data in
    over the last year on the species and handed it back to me and
    then trotted off behind the rhinos again.
        Well, this is not an unremarkable story. There are many
    instances of this of elephants knowing so many commands,
    knowing how to help us in our research. They have also given us
    the databook in a sense that we know how to conserve Asian
    elephants, and now we have to put the scientific knowledge and
    the conservation will to our purpose to try to conserve these
    magnificent animals. Thank you.
        [Statement of Dr. Dinerstein may be found at end of
    hearing.]
        Mr. Saxton. Thank you very much, Dr. Dinerstein. Mr.
    Abercrombie.
        Mr. Abercrombie. Thank you very much, doctor. I don't think
    any of the draft horses I ever came into contact with would
    have picked up any notes for me. You mostly had to stay out of
    the way when they were working. Can you tell me what efforts
    are being undertaken by--the count that we have right now is 13
    different range states--that is the phrase we are using--that
    is the appropriate phrase, is it not--range states----
        Mr. Dinerstein. Yes.
        Mr. Abercrombie. [continuing] governments to preserve Asian
    elephant habitats? One of the things we are going to run into
    from our colleagues and from their constituents is why should
    we spend this money? What are they doing to help themselves? I
    think you will find Americans are more than willing to get
    their paddle in the water and pull deep if they feel that other
    people are in the canoe with them.
        Dr. Dinerstein. Yes. I think Dr. Sukumar can talk about
    that for India. Let me talk about a few other places. Let me
    give some examples of where some of the range states have
    passed legislation or enacted activities that really are
    considered beyond what we are doing in our own country.
        For example, in the country of Nepal, it just passed
    legislation that requires recycling 50 percent of all the
    revenues generated say from ecotourism or park entry fees back
    to local development. So this is the first time in Asia this
    has been done.
        But I think this is the critical point. If we are going to
    have conservation in Asia in the next 20--30 years, local
    people have to be given incentives to want to live next to
    large, potentially dangerous wildlife.
        Mr. Abercrombie. Let me elaborate on that because we are
    going to submit these questions to you folks for more elaborate
    answers which we are going to need in order to satisfy our
    colleagues' questions and perceptions, and we are under time
    restraint. I appreciate that answer. In other words, it is now
    underway. What we need to do is encourage it. Do you believe
    that if we pass this legislation that will be an encouragement
    to these range state governments to pass similar legislation or
    complementary legislation?
        Dr. Dinerstein. I think so. I think that, you know, for the
    United States to take an active interest in this and to
    identify important directions to go in and to put some money
    where our mouth is on this would go a long ways for us to go
    over and try to advocate new approaches----
        Mr. Abercrombie. We have at least some moral leverage in
    terms of not just simply being imperialist exponents from some
    elitist plane to try and influence domestic policy in these
    countries because we don't want it seen that way. Do you
    believe the way this legislation is drafted that that will get
    through that kind of elitist looking down your nose at other
    people?
        Dr. Dinerstein. I think it will, particularly if it
    includes some language that talks about empowering local
    communities to try to take advantage of the tremendous tourist
    attractions, for example, that wild elephant herds and other
    wildlife species maintain those values across Asia. But I think
    that that really is the trick is that we can come up with ways
    to try to conserve elephants, to try to address issues like
    fragmentation----
        Mr. Abercrombie. Well, in the intent language then of the
    bill or the report accompanying the bill, then we have to
    emphasize that?
        Dr. Dinerstein. I would recommend that.
        Mr. Abercrombie. Perhaps when you respond or others
    respond, if you could emphasize how you think best that this
    can get the message to local entities, local governments,
    communities, et cetera, that were interested in building a
    cooperative base with them legislatively and otherwise. That
    would be good.
        I wanted to ask one other thing, and, Dr. Sukumar, perhaps
    you can answer this as well. Dr. Maple, you may have some
    knowledge of this. Zoos and aquariums across this country, and
    I expect in other countries, in order to attract support,
    favorable attention, and so on have numerous programs in which
    they try to bring people in. I know the Honolulu Zoo even has
    where you stay overnight so that you can see, hear, and
    experience what it is like because lots of animals are
    nocturnal and that kind of thing. So they do things that reach
    out to the community.
        In this particular instance, Dr. Dinerstein, I was
    intrigued by your point about ecotourism. We try to do that in
    Hawaii right now. Obviously, I am searching for a hook or a
    series of hooks that will enable us to attract, again, the
    favorable attention of our colleagues about spending money.
        I think that one of the things that this could do is that
    people would like to ride elephants. I don't think that that
    is--because there is, as Dr. Sukumar has indicated, 30 percent
    of the Asian elephants are domesticated, they are engaged in a
    commercial side, as opposed to abusing them in that category.
        Perhaps with the right kind of program, the idea that
    people could go to various Asian countries and participate as
    ecotourists in that, that doesn't necessarily work against the
    goals of conservation and preservation, does it? And if it
    does, I want you to tell me. My instinct tells me that it does
    not when it is properly managed and controlled and the right
    attitude is put forward.
        Dr. Sukumar. I think, Mr. Abercrombie, you have very
    rightly put it, that we need to involve local communities in
    terms of trying to conserve the species. And I can think of no
    better way of doing this than by actually promoting tourism
    which involves elephants--you know, both viewing elephants and
    riding elephants and so on. And that will be an excellent way
    of actually trying to get some economic benefits to the local
    community which would give them incentives for protecting the
    species.
        Mr. Abercrombie. Is it possible, Dr. Dinerstein, that in
    the context like either the World Wildlife Fund--I mean, your
    bona fides I think are apparent with respect to your commitment
    to preservation and conservation. You do not see the ecotourism
    then, for example, nonshooting safaris, if you will, as
    anything anesthetical to your goals and purposes?
        Dr. Dinerstein. Oh, not at all. I think it is one of the
    most powerful tools that we have to try to link local
    development with long-term conservation.
        Mr. Abercrombie. That also would include then, would it
    not, helping to make an argument to local communities and
    governments for the preservation, even the extension of
    habitat?
        Dr. Dinerstein. Oh, certainly. I mean, in fact, the program
    that we have in Nepal is an example. We have managed to extend
    the buffer zone and restore the habitat where we now have five
    tigers living in a place and 40 rhinos that we didn't have 4
    years ago through these investments.
        Mr. Abercrombie. OK. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
        Mr. Saxton. The gentleman's time has expired. Mr. Farr.
        Mr. Farr. I like the way that last question is going over.
    I read nothing in the bill that puts any of the money into
    that, and I would appreciate it if you want to take a look at
    the bill to suggest some language that might tighten it up. It
    seems to me that the best way to make this work is a
    collaborative effort. You are going to have to preserve the
    habitat of the animal. Preserving that habitat has got to
    preserve the economy of the area.
        There is a nexus. It doesn't mean that it has got to, one,
    stop the erosion or the loss of the habitat, but at the same
    time convert essentially agrarian cultures to a way of doing
    economic development through ecotourism. And we know how to do
    that, but we don't re-

    quire at all that any of these moneys be collaborative that
    way. And I think that we ought to tighten that up a little bit,
    that there ought to be a nexus.
        Secondly is I look at these maps that have been placed
    before the Committee which is the Indo-Pacific ecoregions
    overlaid with the distribution of elephants, tigers, and
    rhinos. You really begin seeing--you can get a three-for here.
    It seems to me if you can preserve the habitats of elephants in
    some of these regions, you are also preserving the habitats for
    tigers and the habitats in a very small area for rhinos,
    particularly in Indonesia.
        Is there any effort to try to prioritize a limited amount
    of funds? This is $25 million over 5 years--$5 million a year.
    Is there any attempt to leverage these funds with other efforts
    to preserve those ecoregions as well where you can have a
    multiple effect of preserving habitats?
        Dr. Dinerstein. Yes, you can. I was in a way hoping you
    wouldn't do the spacial overlap in your head and see how much
    there is, but, in fact, I should make a point about these maps.
    These maps certainly reflect the distribution of the species,
    not population densities.
        So you have to be careful in interpreting that in that
    there are some places, for example, where tigers reach
    relatively high densities like parks in Nepal where elephants
    occur at low densities. And there are places where rhinos occur
    and similarly for rhinos.
        So there is a fair amount of overlap, but there are also
    places where you have high populations of tigers and maybe not
    some of the other species. So that's why I think it makes sense
    to keep the funds separate because also----
        Mr. Farr. I wasn't suggesting that they be commingled but--
    --
        Dr. Dinerstein. Yes, but certainly in terms of strategic
    planning, yes, there are clearly places. And so if we can get
    in the next year or so an elephant analysis that is similar to
    our tiger analysis--we already know where the rhinos are
    because there are so few populations left.
        That would go a long ways to try to I think be much more
    strategic about addressing concerns for both tigers and
    elephants, which both have some of the same concerns in
    maintaining large blocks of habitat and conactivity among the
    remaining blocks so you can have dispersal and gene flow
    between them.
        Mr. Farr. Is an emphasis placed on buying the habitat?
        Dr. Dinerstein. Well, it is difficult in that in many of
    the countries, either it is going to be state owned or
    privately owned. I think that what we should be focusing on the
    most is to try to maintain the existing wildlife corridors that
    exist between reserves so that elephant populations or tiger
    populations can move between them very easily.
        And that is probably our first goal is to maintain existing
    corridors and then, where appropriate, try to restore them
    because that is really what you are talking about is
    appropriating land and trying to restore them.
        The one advantage that we have in a lot of elephant habitat
    is that elephants like habitats that are early successional,
    that convert very quickly to the natural habitat. You don't
    have to wait--you don't have generations of patience like you
    would to regrow a tropical rain forest. So in one or 2 years,
    you can have tigers, rhinos, and elephants back in places that
    were once rice paddies. So that is very possible--to see
    dramatic results very quickly if you can get the land
    available. That becomes a tricky political issue in many
    countries.
        Mr. Farr. What is the highest priority? What is your
    highest priority?
        Dr. Dinerstein. I would say for elephants right now I would
    say is to try and identify those places of the areas shown in
    brown on here that have elephants in them where we have the
    greatest chance of persistence over the long term right away so
    that the money that would come from this fund goes to places
    where it won't be wasted, where it won't be used in places that
    may not have a long-term future but go to the places where we
    know we can--we think we can protect elephants in perpetuity.
        Mr. Farr. Well, it seems to me we need to tighten that
    language up a little bit to do that. That makes good sense. And
    is that your top one?
        Dr. Dinerstein. Well, certainly, I think that is the top
    one. And then I think in the other places is simply identifying
    priorities is the first step. Then I think proper law
    enforcement. As Dr. Sukumar has written about in his book and
    other Asian elephant experts have testified, that the loss of
    the big male tuskers is a real problem. They are being heavily
    poached. Some of the reserves don't have big male tuskers
    anymore. So I think strict protection from poaching is
    critical, which also benefits the tigers----
        Mr. Farr. My time is up but just one question. Where is the
    best training in the world for wildlife game manager
    enforcement?
        Dr. Dinerstein. Maybe Dave Ferguson or--there are a number
    of places that do that. I think in India itself, the Wildlife
    Institute of India has an excellent program that Dave
    Ferguson's program has supported for many years that involves
    issues of law enforcement and management of parks. So,
    certainly, for the region, that is an appropriate place to be
    looking.
        Mr. Farr. Thank you. Mr. Chairman, I hope sometime we can
    focus on--you know, whenever we have a NAFTA debate or any kind
    of trade debate, it is always the environmental side. It comes
    down to the countries have good laws but inappropriate
    enforcement. It seems to me that this Committee needs to devote
    a hearing to enforcement efforts around the world, where they
    are weak and strong and good and bad and see if we can start
    using some limited resources to enhance midlevel training.
        I am a Peace Corps volunteer, and I found that midlevel
    technical training--they are hungry for it and the ability to
    facilitate it--get people to the countries and places that do
    it. I think America does it very well in almost every area of
    education. That we undersell and pay too little of attention to
    that is the next step of sort of economic training that needs
    to be done in the world.
        Mr. Saxton. Thank you very much, Mr. Farr. Let me ask one
    final question, if I may. One of the things that we have
    learned in dealing with species such as the Asian elephant,
    African elephant, rhinos, tigers, et cetera, is that along with
    habitat protection one of the major issues that we need to
    address is the economic incentive to--which dissuades people
    from conservation measures. With regard to the Asian elephant,
    can you talk about those economic incentives? And please
    concentrate in particular on the traditional Chinese medicine
    issue which I understand causes a great deal of concern. Anyone
    who wishes to----
        Dr. Sukumar. Well, I don't think the parks of Asian
    elephants are really involved in Chinese medicine. I know that
    tiger parks are involved but not elephant. I don't think
    elephant is really used in Chinese medicine.
        Dr. Dinerstein. Nowhere near the extent that rhinos or
    tigers are. We are not facing that. It is really the ivory
    threat.
        Dr. Sukumar. It is really ivory--the underskin to a certain
    extent, yes.
        Mr. Saxton. Are there other economic incentives to hunt or
    kill Asian elephants?
        Dr. Sukumar. Apart from ivory and skin, no. I mean, that
    is, of course, killing of elephants for meat, there are certain
    tribes in northeast India and southeast Asia who eat elephant
    meat, but that is the other incentive for killing elephants.
        Mr. Saxton. So this is not, in the vernacular, a big deal--
    --
        Dr. Sukumar. Yes.
        Mr. Saxton. [continuing] in the big scheme of things? OK.
    Well, thank you very much. We appreciate all of your testimony
    and thank you for sharing with us your perspectives. Mr.
    Abercrombie?
        Mr. Abercrombie. Mr. Chairman, I mentioned during the
    course of the testimony for both panels and I think for those
    who have consulted with us and given us their testimony
    previously, could I ask that some of the questions put forward
    to us in our background material and perhaps some other
    questions be put to the witnesses in the hopes that the answers
    we get back will help us write the legislation more
    comprehensively?
        Mr. Saxton. That is an excellent suggestion. If staff will
    forward on the appropriate questions which are in our packet,
    then we will ask you if you will submit some answers in writing
    to us. Thank you very much. We are going to move to panel
    number 3; Dr. Michael Stuwe, Research Associate of the
    Smithsonian Institute; Dr. Mary Pearl, Executive Director of
    the Wildlife Preservation Trust International; and the
    Honorable former member of this House, Andy Ireland, Senior
    Vice President of Feld Entertainment, Inc. Please take your
    places. We are anxious to hear your perspectives as well. And,
    Dr. Stuwe, when you are comfortable in your place and
    sufficiently organized, you may begin.

          STATEMENT OF DR. MICHAEL STUWE, RESEARCH ASSOCIATE,
        CONSERVATION AND RESEARCH CENTER, SMITHSONIAN INSTITUTE

        Dr. Stuwe. Yes. I am comfortable. And first of all, I guess
    I have to say that I am a research associate with the
    Smithsonian, but they told me as I am not a permanent employee,
    I cannot speak for them officially. So I would like for you to
    take this testimony as testimony of a scientist who works in
    Asia on Asian elephants.
        Mr. Saxton. Very well. Thank you very much.
        Dr. Stuwe. But still this morning when I came in, I went to
    the Natural History Museum, first of all, before it opened up.
    I went into the big entrance hall, and I looked at the elephant
    there--that monster of an elephant standing there with nobody
    else in that big hall. And I realized going to this meeting
    that that is what we have to do, we have to protect the
    elephant.
        Mr. Saxton. Doctor, I wonder if you might pull the
    microphone a little closer.
        Dr. Stuwe. When I was walking around the elephant there all
    by myself, hearing my footsteps, thoughts went through my mind
    from a few weeks ago when I went out with the Malaysian
    Wildlife Department to capture elephants--capture elephants in
    the plantations, in the crop fields in southern Malaysia, and
    translocate them up into national parks. And for days and days
    without end, we were visiting homesteads and farms and
    plantations that just the night before had been completely
    destroyed by elephants.
        So in my statement here instead of repeating much of the
    data on elephants that we have heard already, which is already
    in the public record, I want to concentrate on two items that I
    think are most important. And the most important item I think
    is the human-elephant conflict.
        It is what we see as a magnificent species over here that
    needs protection, and the little landowner over there in
    Malaysia or the other countries whose crops get raided season
    after season, whose livelihood is destroyed season after season
    may not see as a magnificent species.
        So that is I think where we have to start. That is where we
    have to find the solution, and that is where a lot of the funds
    should be allocated onsite right there where it happens every
    night when the elephants and man get in conflict with each
    other. And, obviously, as the human populations grow as all of
    Malaysia is being developed, the forests are shrinking.
        And in addition to that, we humans--we provide the
    elephants with restaurants. We provide them with plants that
    are juicy, that are sweet, that are everything that we like to
    eat, and they like it too. So not only do we displace them,
    instead, we are actually pulling them in many cases into these
    areas to feed on our crops which adds to the problem of solving
    the whole issue.
        The second point I wanted to make, and it has been
    discussed quite a bit already, is the question of the
    domestication of the work elephants out there. A quarter of the
    population may be in captivity. These guys are not contributing
    to reproduction. They are almost completely lost to the gene
    pool of the Asian elephant population.
        But still there are those animals that are under our direct
    control. They are held by us. So if we can make these guys
    breed, if we can have them reproduce and become active members
    of the Asian elephant gene pool, we can control one-quarter of
    their gene pool.
        We were invited 2 weeks ago by the Royal Forest Department
    in Thailand, for example, to help them reintroduce unemployed
    work elephants. The Thai timber industry is going down the
    drain as all the value cash timber has been logged out. There
    were thousands of work elephants employed. These guys are now
    unemployed. Their owners can no longer maintain them. So what
    to do?
        The first instances have been in the newspapers that
    elephants are sold to slaughterhouses and slaughtered for meat.
    Bangkok is full of elephants bagging in front of the big malls,
    the big supermarkets--a horrible life in that congested
    traffic. Other elephants are let loose by their owners. They
    start raiding the crop fields over there and cause destruction
    and loss of life.
        So here is another big area where we can actually work on
    thousands of elephants and try and find solutions on how to
    integrate those guys back into the wild, into the pool of
    elephants. Thank you.
        [Statement of Mr. Stuwe may be found at end of hearing.]
        Mr. Saxton. Thank you very much; very interesting. Dr.
    Pearl.

       STATEMENT OF DR. MARY PEARL, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, WILDLIFE
                    PRESERVATION TRUST INTERNATIONAL

        Dr. Pearl. In your letter inviting me to speak, Congressman
    Saxton, you asked me my assessment of the Asian Elephant
    Conservation Act. You asked whether I think the authorization
    level is appropriate, the types of conservation projects that
    are likely to need Federal support, and what other steps could
    be taken to help save elephants. I would like to comment
    briefly on each of your queries.
        First, my assessment. I think the Act may be key to the
    survival of Asian elephants. As you have heard earlier, the
    population is down to 50,000 animals, and what is worse, it is
    isolated in small pockets spread all the way from India to
    Indonesia. And because the hunting for tusks is limited to
    males, because in Asia it is only the males that have the
    tusks, in some areas the ratio of males to females has been
    reduced to 1 to 100.
        In such circumstances, it is virtually impossible for all
    potential mothers to mate. Even in the best of circumstances,
    elephants typically only produce an offspring every 4 to 6
    years. Thus, elephant populations will be extremely slow to
    recover from a steep decline.
        Moreover, as you have heard, up to one-third of the
    population is in captivity, mostly in logging camps. The share
    of captive animals is growing. As more natural habitat is
    converted into agricultural lands, the resident elephants
    suddenly become ``agricultural pests,'' and they are taken into
    captivity.
        As Michael said, the productivity and health of this
    worldwide captive population is important for the future of the
    species. Yet, the captive care in many places falls short of
    minimum standards for humane care. Successful captive breeding
    must take place, but it cannot in unhealthy circumstances.
        It will be necessary to take the hunting for capture
    pressure off of remaining wild elephants by mobilizing this
    captive potential. It is clear that active intervention is
    necessary, both in elephant camps and in the wild to halt the
    steep decline in elephant numbers.
        Now, regarding your second query, I think that the
    authorization level is appropriate to American interests and
    values and to the capacity of field researchers and
    conservationists to respond. In America, elephants are the
    backbone of zoos and circuses.
        In Asia, beyond the elephant's essential role in Buddhism
    and Hinduism, the continued economic viability of sustainable
    tropical timber harvesting depends on the maintenance of
    captive elephant populations in some rural areas. In Burma, for
    example, an elephant work force of 3,000 is used to manage the
    logging industry.
        But elephants are critically important not only culturally
    and economically, but also economically indirectly through
    their ecological role. They maintain the habitat that other
    wildlife needs. A host of plants and animals depend on the
    elephant in its role as the architect of the forest, creating
    clearings in which they can also live and grow. These healthy
    ecosystems are the basis of local human health and prosperity.
        I would now like to outline some specific projects that
    must be undertaken to protect elephants, which could be
    supported under H.R. 1787. Despite the low numbers and the
    troubles they face, they are not doomed to extinction. The
    situation is urgent, which is very different from hopeless. We
    know what we must do to stabilize the population. We must
    locate and identify all remaining significant local populations
    of elephants and determine their minimum critical habitat
    requirements.
        We must make plans to translocate isolated elephants to
    places where they can become part of an effective reproducing
    local population. We must resolve conflicts where elephants are
    ruining people's livelihoods in such a way that both people and
    elephants have viable futures. We must devise ways to better
    manage captive populations so that they are self-sustaining,
    humanely cared for, and a source of replenishment for remaining
    wild herds.
        At my organization, Wildlife Preservation Trust
    International, we have, in fact, begun this work in partnership
    with the Asian Elephant Conservation Centre in India, thanks to
    the generosity of our members and various private foundations.
    And we are also fortunate that throughout the elephant range
    states, there are competent and committed scientists and
    wildlife managers ready and willing to work with us to reverse
    the decline in elephants.
        However, the urgency of our mission is such that we cannot
    accomplish what we need to on private support alone, and that
    is why H.R. 1787 is so important. Rather than throwing money at
    the problem, this legislation would direct a modest amount that
    would bring ongoing efforts up to the needed level of intensity
    and accomplishment.
        In other words, the proposed U.S. contribution to Asian
    elephant conservation represents leverage appropriate to
    American interests and values which will result, in fact, in
    far greater expenditures of funds and effort at the local level
    within elephant range countries.
        So to conclude, the Asian Elephant Conservation Act is
    important for the future of a species of aesthetic and economic
    value to Americans. The tasks before us are clear. We have the
    people in place to make a difference with relatively modest
    expenditures. Thank you.
        [Statement of Dr. Pearl may be found at end of hearing.]
        Mr. Saxton. Mr. Ireland.

        STATEMENT OF ANDY IRELAND, SENIOR VICE PRESIDENT, FELD
                          ENTERTAINMENT, INC.

        Mr. Ireland. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have submitted a
    statement, and I would ask your indulgence to put----
        Mr. Abercrombie. Excuse me, Mr. Ireland. To think I was
    just moments from being able to jump in there and introduce you
    myself, but decorum has been preserved.
        Mr. Ireland. I appreciate that. Mr. Chairman, I represent
    Feld Entertainment, Incorporated, one of the world's largest
    and most prominent producers of live family entertainment.
    While you may not be immediately familiar with the name of the
    company, I am sure more than a few of the people here today
    will have seen one of our shows. These include Ringling Bros.
    and Barnum & Bailey Circus, Walt Disney's World on Ice, and the
    Las Vegas illusionists Siegfried & Roy.
        Four years ago when I retired from Congress, I had the
    opportunity to run away and join the circus, not just any
    circus, but literally the greatest show on earth. Needless to
    say, it is a role I found myself eminently qualified for given
    my 16 years here in these hallowed halls.
        More seriously, the reason we are here today is because all
    of us in this room and those testifying before you today have a
    tremendous love and respect for one of nature's most amazing
    animals, the Asian elephant. The Asian elephant has long been
    an integral part of the circus experience and is among one of
    our most beloved and popular animals.
        America's relationship with the Asian elephant began over
    200 years ago when the first Asian elephant came to this
    country as part of a traveling exhibition. This has continued
    through 127 years of history at Ringling Bros. and Barnum &
    Bailey alone.
        As the plight of the Asian elephant became more pronounced,
    we at Feld Entertainment realized that we had a responsibility
    to help protect the species, and that we were in a perfect
    position to make such a contribution. As you know, and has been
    said here by numerous speakers, roughly one-third of the
    world's Asian elephant population, nearly 16,000, are
    domesticated. While the vast majority reside in camps
    throughout southeast Asia, we at Ringling Bros. maintain the
    largest herd in the United States and the most diverse gene
    pool.
        Our commitment to conservation of the Asian elephant is
    based on three goals: education and the accumulation of
    valuable scientific information from a successful captive
    breeding program and habitat conservation.
        Let me explain how we look at this. As the largest
    traveling exhibition in North America, over 10 million children
    of all ages attended Ringling Bros. performance each year. We
    long ago realized that we have a tremendous opportunity not
    only to entertain but to educate our patrons, many of whom are
    young children. I am sure that many of you in this room can
    remember the first time you saw an elephant, a lion, and a
    tiger, and the chances are pretty good that was in a circus
    somewhere.
        The impact of live exhibition, especially in an
    entertainment setting, is tremendous. Common sense dictates and
    numerous scientific studies have proven the long-term
    effectiveness of live display and entertainment in both
    educating and raising the public's awareness of the needs,
    abilities, and, most importantly, of our responsibility to
    endangered animals.
        In a nutshell, we are well-positioned to educate the
    public, and we go to great lengths to get the message out. In
    addition to the educational benefits of public exhibition, Feld
    Entertainment has made a substantial investment in the future
    of the Asian elephant through the creation of the Center for
    Elephant Conservation based in Florida.
        The center is a 200 acre state-of-the-art facility
    dedicated to the breeding, conservation, and scientific study
    of Asian elephants. To date, nine calves have been born under
    this program, the most recent addition arriving just last month
    and weighing in at something over 200 pounds.
        Having found ways we could contribute to the conservation
    of the species in our own backyard through education and
    successful scientific breeding, we at Feld Entertainment began
    to look for the element that would make our role complete; that
    is, the protection of the species in the wild.
        Perhaps the greatest challenge facing the future of Asian
    elephants in the wild is that of habitat preservation, and that
    is what brings us here today. Dr. Sukumar and others, Mary
    Pearl and Dr. Maple, have described this problem in detail. I
    would simply recommend to you that the Asian Elephant
    Conservation Act is the solution to this critical problem; the
    piece of the puzzle that completes the picture.
        The Federal Government, by helping to identify and provide
    seed funds for grassroots habitat conservation projects, will
    provide the vehicle through which conservation-minded
    organizations such as Feld Entertainment and others here today
    can make to them in a meaningful contribution to save the Asian
    elephant. Thank you.
        [Statement of Mr. Ireland may be found at end of hearing.]
        Mr. Saxton. Thank you all very much for your comments, and
    perhaps we will do this a little bit differently. The gentleman
    from California.
        Mr. Farr. I would just like to ask--thank you for coming,
    and it is always a pleasure to have a distinguished former
    member back in the building. I am interested and one of the
    priorities you said was habitat conservation as the Feld
    Entertainment's priorities. Is that the reason why you are
    supporting this legislation?
        Mr. Ireland. Yes.
        Mr. Farr. Because as we heard earlier, none of the money
    would be spent here in the United States for domestic breeding
    programs or for all the other----
        Mr. Ireland. Absolutely. The intention of this is in no way
    for any funds to go to something in the United States. Speaking
    for Feld, we expect to be a contributor of funds, not only hard
    cash funds, but in other ways. First of all, we contribute by
    raising the awareness educationwise that there is a problem out
    here--in the United States, our own money, our own efforts in
    our program books and other things.
        We think that the $7 or $8 million that we spend and have
    spent on this facility in Florida to breed these elephants and
    the quite substantial funds for their care and maintenance each
    year is a contribution we make to saving the Asian elephant in
    the wild simply because the scientific knowledge that we
    generate we make available to anybody that wants it.
        And, as a matter of fact, I was just recently with Dr.
    Sukumar in India with the idea of finding out how we can
    transfer any knowledge that we have. Others have made the point
    that this one-third of the elephant population that is domestic
    can in many ways, beyond the breeding that Michael Stuwe talked
    about and others, make a contribution to saving the wild
    things. These two things are things that we have done
    ourselves.
        When we educate people about the circus, they come to us
    and they want to do something. They want to participate, and
    other organizations want to participate. And the leverage comes
    from the Federal Government seeding the program and making it
    possible for people to know where to put their funds and their
    effort. Nothing in this thing would ever go to anything that we
    do.
        Mr. Farr. Well, I appreciate that because I agree that we
    ought to be participating with both private and public sectors
    to enhance the reproduction of endangered and threatened
    species. And I think we do that best by preserving the habitat.
    I think you can't do it just by captivity. I don't think that
    we want to just learn about animals from visiting zoos and
    circuses.
        And I am very much opposed, I think particularly for
    elephants, of the commercial use and transportation of
    elephants. I don't agree with the circus's need to have
    traveling elephants. I think if you want to--you bring people
    to where the elephants are.
        You don't take the elephants to where--you know, they
    weren't intended to be on earth to be transported on trains and
    trucks and so on. But that is my own personal feeling, but I do
    appreciate your comment about putting private sector money into
    habitat conservation, and I applaud you for that.
        Mr. Saxton. Just let me comment on the gentleman's time or
    my own, whichever. If it were not for Ringling Bros., Feld
    Entertainment, and Andy Ireland, we probably wouldn't be here
    today. This effort started when Andy Ireland came to visit Neil
    Abercrombie and Jim Saxton and Harry Burroughs 6 or 8 months
    ago. And the effort that he has put into getting us here today
    has been phenomenal.
        And I have not been able to uncover or see a single thing
    here that economically benefits the circus or Feld, and I
    appreciate that. I mean, we are looking to form partnerships
    with those in private enterprise who can help to multiple
    whatever moneys we may end up appropriating and leverage those
    moneys. And I, for one, am most appreciative of the effort that
    former Congressman Ireland and his associates have brought to
    this effort. Mr. Abercrombie.
        Mr. Abercrombie. Dr. Stuwe, I would like to know, and
    perhaps, Dr. Pearl, you have expertise in this as well--I would
    like to know what basis do you have for believing, if I
    understood you correctly, that domesticated elephants could be
    reintegrated with wild elephants in terms of expanding the
    genetic pool?
        Did I understand you both correctly that because of the
    domesticated elephant situation--I mean, this is what we are
    dealing--the real world is is that a large proportion of the
    existing Asian elephants are in a domesticated state.
        The testimony has been that as a result of something I
    mentioned earlier in my commentary and questions, that is, the
    clash between human beings and Asian elephants in the
    contemporary Asian world, that the domesticated part of it may
    be historically at an end or approaching an end--the
    traditional uses as a result of domestication. Now, is there
    any studies or activities which have already proven that this
    can happen, or is this just a supposition or a proposal or
    what?
        Dr. Pearl. I guess we can both answer, but it may surprise
    you to know that the captive/wild division isn't as clear-cut
    as you might think. In many well-run elephant camps, females
    are released at night to go into forests where they mate with
    wild bulls, and in this way genes are exchanged between the
    wild and the domestic population.
        Mr. Abercrombie. So this is, I take it, random activity for
    the time being?
        Dr. Pearl. Oh, I am sure the females chose the healthiest
    males; it's not random.
        Mr. Abercrombie. I wasn't referring to individual romance,
    but I meant in terms of, in other words, those who may have
    used domestic elephants, obviously, want to have little
    elephants to come along too probably. But that may not be the
    case, but what I am interested in is is this the case then that
    this would not be a difficulty? If we were able to start a
    program which would be gradually--is the ideal--let me start
    over again. Is the idea, Dr. Stuwe, from what you said that
    eventually many of the domesticated elephants would be
    reintegrated into natural habitat and reintegrated into
    families, tribes, groups which currently exist in the wild?
        Dr. Stuwe. If it is at all possible. It is an extremely
    tricky problem that we are facing here. The study that I
    mentioned to which we contribute in Thailand is selecting an
    area that had elephants previously and due to poaching or
    whatever happened that captures this elephant is now completely
    empty of elephants. It is suited for them.
        And the Queen of Thailand has just purchased three former
    work elephants who had become unemployed whose owners could no
    longer maintain them, and we are now trying to see what happens
    if they are integrated back into the wild.
        Mr. Abercrombie. So this is the kind of thing then that
    perhaps if this legislation passes and we are able to get
    funding that we could experiment with. We don't necessarily
    know the outcome.
        Dr. Stuwe. Right, exactly.
        Mr. Abercrombie. That is the answer. Is that correct?
        Dr. Stuwe. Through research find out does it work, does it
    not work. If it works, hey, we may have a solution to
    repopulate empty areas. That is exactly right.
        Mr. Abercrombie. Then I am also taking from this testimony
    that you have given that we may need to find or help to promote
    habitat in which domesticated Asian elephants may be introduced
    into that--introduced as groups. Is it possible? Are those
    domesticated elephants in any kind of groups, or have they been
    isolated and individualized?
        Dr. Stuwe. Right. Those are extremely important questions.
    The one question that you just asked, the important thing is is
    there still a social structure within that group of work
    elephants that we can release together, or do we first have to
    try and form a new social group and train them for release into
    the wild.
        Imagine these guys don't have any fear of humans. They
    possibly look for humans. They look for crop fields. And the
    first thing they do, they start raiding them. So you are
    creating problems rather than solving them. So there is a big
    research effort that has to go in how can I pretrain work
    elephants for release into the wild to then integrate in
    social----
        Mr. Abercrombie. OK. I won't go further with this right now
    other than to say, Mr. Chairman, obviously, I am coming at this
    as a layperson, but I am trying to immerse myself in it as much
    as I can. One of the things I have concluded is is that we have
    to be very much concerned about the domesticated population and
    what will transpire with that. I have no answers, obviously.
    Now, I have all questions at this stage. But I do believe that
    that is something we are going to have to concentrate on in the
    future.
        My guess is is that the role for domesticated Asian
    elephants will diminish relatively rapidly--the social role
    that they now play, the economic role they now play--and that,
    therefore, we will have to work, provided we can get the
    legislation on the books in the first place, to see what we do
    with that population in the various regional and habitat
    context that they face as manifested on these maps that have
    been given to us. So that may be a big program.
        Dr. Stuwe. If I may add, even though it is red, one more
    quick item exactly related to that problem. Right now the
    Burmese timber industry is the most active. Most of the
    elephants are actually employed there and working. But we have
    access to trained work elephants, both in Indonesia, where they
    are caught from the wild and put into camps which someone may
    describe even as elephant concentration camps, or the Thai
    elephants who have lost employment.
        So here we are potentially talking about the option of
    shipping elephants between countries from unemployment
    situations into employment situations. That may have an impact
    on the interpretation of CITES. Are these elephants allowed to
    be shipped across to be employed in commercial activities
    there?
        Dr. Pearl. We also have the option of converting the
    elephants trained to work in logging to working in ecotourism,
    as was discussed earlier, as another potential----
        Mr. Abercrombie. This is the last point on that. With the
    lumber, the eventual purchaser of the lumber, finished and
    otherwise, is the West, is it not--mostly in the West?
        Dr. Stuwe. Japan.
        Dr. Pearl. Japan.
        Mr. Abercrombie. OK--same thing.
        Mr. Saxton. Thank you very much, Neil. And, Dr. Stuwe and
    Dr. Pearl and Andy, thank you very much for the very important
    job that you have assisted with here and your efforts have been
    greatly appreciated. You were instrumental in helping us to get
    the bill introduced. You have been instrumental in helping us
    to understand why it needed to be introduced and the subject
    areas that are all related to it. And we appreciate your input
    very much.
        I would just like to say in closing, I don't know whether
    it was Neil or Mr. Farr that was talking so much about tourism
    and how interesting it is to see how various forms of wildlife
    draw tourists, and I can't help but think of the many tourists
    that come to this town because we have not one zoo but two.
        Mr. Abercrombie. Mr. Chairman, on that note, if I could
    just have a moment's more indulgence, I do want to finish this
    question. I don't want to forget it. Has there been any
    interest in Japan then in helping with this issue? And if there
    has not been, are there societies or groups or perhaps branches
    of the Preservation Trust Fund or wildlife funds in Japan?
        The reason I bring that up is is I am very concerned in
    trying to draw other countries in to help us with this, that if
    we are the recipients particularly of finished products that
    come out of, you know, logging and other things that take
    place, then those countries that are the recipients of that
    should be concerned about what happens with the Asian elephant.
    And we would have a legitimate basis for asking them to help
    us--may become associated. Are they presently involved at all?
    Do any of you know?
        Dr. Pearl. Well, sure. JICA, Japan's overseas agency, has
    funded education centers and help for material assistance in
    the wildlife departments.
        Mr. Abercrombie. Is that a government entity?
        Dr. Pearl. Yes, it is. It is the equivalent of U.S. Aid.
        Mr. Abercrombie. So there is an institutional framework
    available in Japan and perhaps other nations with which we
    could coordinate--which the Department of Interior could
    coordinate?
        Dr. Pearl. Yes. We are leaving my area of expertise, which
    is in science. But from working in the field, I see that there
    are some forms of assistance----
        Mr. Abercrombie. Just as long as we have an entree point is
    what I am asking.
        Dr. Pearl. Well, I would like to make another brief point.
    Five million dollars a year really is dwarfed by the amount of
    money already being spent by the Malaysian Government, the
    Indian Government, and the Indonesian Government. They are
    having to compensate farmers for damage elephants do to crops.
    They are paying costs of translocations. They are underwriting
    some research. So I think the money that would come through
    this legislation is very strategic funding for the scientific
    research needed and to get some model programs going that would
    leverage further activity in the----
        Mr. Abercrombie. I understand. I quite understand. The
    reason I asked the question and begged the indulgence of the
    Chair just a moment longer was it is important for us to be
    able to make clear to our colleagues that we are not pioneers
    out on the point on this, but rather we would be working on an
    international basis with others who are interested, including
    indigenous governments and peoples, and that we could provide
    then a strategic contribution.
        Dr. Pearl. Yes.
        Mr. Abercrombie. Thank you.
        Dr. Pearl. And European sources.
        Mr. Ireland. Mr. Chairman and Congressman Abercrombie, if I
    could add to that, we play a number of our shows in Japan. We
    have had one of our circuses in Japan. The Asian elephant is
    revered in Japan, as elsewhere in Asia. The strength of the
    children interest is there, just like America.
        The companies that we do business as we put on ice shows
    and other entertainment there are companies that would
    certainly be interested, we would say, in the leverage factor
    of this legislation--a key part of this leverage was the word
    that Mary Pearl used. That is the catalyst to getting the
    private sector in there and bringing it up to speed. Japan is,
    in my judgment, a good candidate for the private sector help.
        Mr. Saxton. Thank you very much, Andy. Mr. Farr I believe
    has one final, short closing thought.
        Mr. Farr. Yes. In closing, you are to be commended for
    having this hearing at a time when we are discussing the
    foreign ops appropriation. I mean, you find, you know, a big
    debate on whether we ought to insure American businesses going
    abroad.
        I think that what we are talking about here is essentially
    a global economy where you pointed out that people come to this
    town to watch the zoos, and I would submit that there is
    probably one of them here that is of the two that you were
    referring to that is more humane than the other. And we are not
    sitting in the one that is the most humane.
        But Megatrends pointed out that the biggest growth in
    American ecotourism is watchable wildlife. There are more
    people looking at wildlife in America than all of the
    professional sports. And if you think what commercialization
    there is for that that we are really investing in our future in
    an economic sense, not just in preserving, you know, the
    environment.
        And it makes smart economics, and it is a time when
    everybody is going to criticize the fact of what is Congress
    doing putting $5 million into Asian elephants somewhere else.
    And I think that we need to defend that, that that is just as
    important as backing up American businesses that are going
    overseas.
        So I appreciate all of the effort today. We saw, you know,
    nonprofits and government and for-profit companies all standing
    in unison. And when we get criticized, I hope you will respond
    equally particularly from the private sector that this is a
    worthwhile use of taxpayer dollars. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        Mr. Saxton. Thank you very much and thank all of you very
    much. This hearing is adjourned.
        [Statement of Wildlife Institute of India may be found at
    end of hearing.]
        [Whereupon, at 11:55 p.m., the Subcommittee was adjourned.]
     Statement of Marshall P. Jones, Assistant Director for International
      Affairs, U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, Department of the Interior

        Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for giving me the opportunity to
    provide the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service's assessment of H.R.
    1787, The Asian Elephant Conservation Act of 1997. On behalf of
    the Administration, the Service fully supports the enactment of
    this legislation and congratulates the Congress on its
    foresight in recognizing and addressing the plight of the Asian
    elephant.
        Briefly, I would like to discuss the needs of the Asian
    elephant and the ability of the Service to handle
    implementation of the Act and to administer the Asian Elephant
    Conservation Fund. In addition, I would like to provide
    information on the capabilities and commitment of Asian
    countries to protect this species and their habitat, as well as
    what additional steps could be taken to support the
    implementation of the Act.
        From the first appearance of a fairly small tapir like
    mammal in what is now Egypt 45 million years ago, elephants
    evolved a number of species which at one time inhabited nearly
    every continent. By the end of the Pleistocene glaciation about
    10,000 years ago, however, only two species survived--the Asian
    elephant (Elephas maximus) and the African elephant (Loxodonta
    africana). As the largest land animals and as the ultimate
    symbols of power, elephants have always been viewed by humans
    with a mixture of awe and fear, commanding respect by their
    great size but also being viewed as a dangerous and sometimes
    difficult neighbor.
        However, elephants also have other, more intangible values.
    In Asian cultures in particular, people have embraced the Asian
    elephant as a treasured partner in life, deified and venerated
    it into their culture and religion, trained it for hunting and
    war, and bonded with it at the most basic level. Today, the
    Asian elephant is also a keystone species for the preservation
    of biological diversity, since habitats which support wild
    elephants also provide a home for a vast array of other
    species, large and small, and thus also is a magnet for
    ecotourism.
        Nevertheless, despite these acknowledged values, the Asian
    elephant also suffers from a series of paradoxes. Because it is
    the elephant species usually seen in zoos and circuses, with
    more than 16,000 animals in captivity, it may be more familiar
    to the average American citizen. Yet its status is generally
    less well known by the media and the general public than that
    of its larger cousin in Africa. With all of the publicity about
    the decline of the African elephant, they are still more than
    ten times more numerous than the Asian species, which now
    numbers only 35,000 to 45,000 animals. The story of the
    dramatic decline of the African elephant, primarily from large
    scale poaching is well known. The dramatic decline of Asian
    elephant numbers due to the ever increasing population of the
    Asian continent is relatively undocumented.
        The Asian elephant must share its habitat with some of the
    largest and poorest human populations in the world. The
    combination of pressures on the environment brought on by these
    conditions has resulted in the conversion of forest cover to
    agriculture and villages, fragmenting elephant habitat and
    populations. It is believed that today there are only about ten
    populations with over 1000 elephants, with half these located
    in India. The majority of remaining populations are small, with
    less than 100 elephants each and some with lone bulls.
        The dynamics of human population growth have inevitably led
    to increasing conflicts between humans and elephants. This is
    not a new phenomenon, but as the competition for the same
    resources grow, people's tolerance for elephants has dropped.
    Asian peoples have captured elephants for almost 5,000 years
    for training for work-associated tasks, religious ceremonies,
    and war. Where people once revered the elephant and tolerated
    the occasional crop raiding and destruction, now they are
    striking back, unfortunately often with lethal results.
        Unlike African elephants, Asian elephants have not
    traditionally been threatened by poaching for the ivory trade,
    perhaps because females are tuskless and only 60 percent of the
    males carry tusks. However, recent trends since 1994 indicate
    that poaching for ivory, as well as for meat, is on the
    upswing, especially in southern India. The proportion of sub-
    adult and adult tuskers in various populations over the last 20
    years has dropped dramatically, in some areas by as much as 75
    percent. In one outstanding example, investigations in 1994
    revealed that out of 1000 elephants in Periyar Tiger Reserve,
    one of the strongholds for elephants in India, only five adult
    males were left. Even among these, only two were tuskers. This
    preferential decrease in the number of tuskers indicates
    increased poaching pressure for their ivory.
        The implications of this marked sexual disparity have yet
    to be assessed. But it is obvious that it will result in
    changes in population structures, not only among adults but
    among sub-adults and juveniles. A drastic reduction in
    fertility has al-

    ready been seen which will affect the long term demographic
    structure of this population. Similar effects have been well
    documented in African elephants which have been subject to
    heavy poaching; and even if poaching is brought under control,
    it may take years for normal birth rates and juvenile survival
    to be restored.
        In recognition of these threats, the Asian elephant has
    been accorded the highest levels of legal protection through
    national laws and international treaties. It is listed as
    ``Endangered'' under the U.S. Endangered Species Act and on the
    TUCN--World Conservation Union Red List, and on ``Appendix I''
    of CITES. Most of the thirteen Asian elephant range countries,
    including India, reinforce these international listings with
    domestic laws of their own. CITES listing, which is designed to
    eliminate the world-wide trade in ivory, has been partially
    successful. However, some illegal ivory obtained from poaching
    continues to move from country to country. Many Asian countries
    have the strong desire to reduce the levels of poaching and
    stop all illegal trade, but they need assistance if they are to
    improve their ability to enforcement the CITES controls.
        In addition, while national legislation has afforded the
    elephant with maximum protection on paper, local conditions
    often serve to make this safety net more illusory than real.
    Forests in many areas can be owned by local District Councils
    or private individuals and subject to uncontrolled slash and
    burn, shifting cultivation, leading to disappearance of prime
    elephant habitats. Erratic economic and political situations as
    well as lack of emphasis on wildlife-related crimes have made
    it difficult for some countries to effectively enforce laws and
    to efficiently manage their elephant populations and other
    natural resources.
        For these reasons, the Asian elephant is in trouble--and it
    will take more than legal paperwork to ensure its survival.
    Asian elephants need active protection and management of their
    habitat, resolution of the deleterious conflicts with humans
    over land uses, better law enforcement activities to protect
    against poaching, reduction of captures from the wild, and
    better care and humane treatment of the remaining captive
    populations. They also need the restoration of the harmonious
    relationship that previously existed with humans through
    community education and awareness activities.
        Given the already endangered status of the Asian elephant
    and the new and insidious threats now facing it from the
    factors described above, it is indeed timely that this
    Subcommittee is now considering H.R. 1787, the Asian Elephant
    Conservation Act of 1997. This Act acknowledges the problems of
    forest habitat reduction and fragmentation, conflicts with
    humans, poaching and other serious issues affecting the Asian
    elephant. The Act addresses the need to encourage and assist
    initiatives of regional and national agencies and organizations
    whose activities directly or indirectly promote the
    conservation of Asian elephants and their habitat, and it
    provides for the establishment of an Asian Elephant
    Conservation Fund, authorized to receive donations and
    appropriated funds. While many range governments have
    demonstrated a commitment toward conservation, the lack of
    international support for their efforts has been a serious
    impediment.
        Patterned after the African Elephant Conservation Act of
    1988 and the Rhinoceros and Tiger Conservation Act of 1994, the
    Asian Elephant Conservation Act would assign responsibility for
    implementation to the Secretary of the Interior, in
    consultation with the Administrator of the Agency for
    International Development. The bill would authorize the
    Secretary to make grants designed to benefit Asian elephants in
    the world.
        The Service would also mesh the administration of this new
    legislation with our existing responsibilities under the
    Endangered Species Act, using our experience gained during more
    than twenty years of participation in cooperative wildlife
    programs in Asia--including, among many other projects, a ten-
    year ecological study of the Asian elephant in India involving
    training, research, and management activities.
        Additionally, the Service has facilitated CITES
    implementation workshops in six Asian countries, and has so far
    provided support for 15 projects under the Rhinoceros and Tiger
    Conservation Act in three countries, with many more proposals
    now under review. The Service has developed an excellent
    working relationship with most Asian elephant range countries
    and with the CITES Secretariat, as well as establishing an
    important network of worldwide experts, advisors and
    cooperators that can be drawn upon for support and expertise.
        Implementation of the Asian Elephant Conservation Act by
    the Service would be based on the pattern established by the
    African Elephant and Rhinoceros and Tiger Conservation Acts.
    The Service would develop a grant program with a call for
    proposals that would be sent out to a mailing list of potential
    cooperators from regional and range country agencies and
    organizations, including CITES partners and the CITES
    Secretariat. The Act's criteria for proposal approval gives the
    Service clear guidance, and priority would be given to
    proposals which would directly support and enhance wild
    elephant populations and which include necessary matching
    funds.
        All amounts made available through the Conservation Fund
    would be allocated as quickly and as efficiently as possible.
    We expect that Asian elephant range countries and international
    organizations would submit a variety of conservation proposals
    for support, including research, management, conflict
    resolution, community outreach and education, law enforcement,
    CITES implementation, captive breeding, genetic studies and
    traditional mahout and koonkie elephant training.
        Given the success under the African Elephant Conservation
    Act and the Rhinoceros and Tiger Conservation Act, we expect
    that the Asian Elephant Conservation Act would make a major
    contribution to conservation, filling a significant void in our
    current programs. It would send a strong message to the world
    that the people of the United States care deeply about Asian
    elephants and that the U.S. Government is committed to helping
    preserve this keystone species of the remaining tropical and
    subtropical Asian forests.
        For these reasons, Mr. Chairman, we urge this Subcommittee
    to give favorable consideration to H.R. 1787, the Asian
    Elephant Conservation Act of 1997.
                                    ------

        Statement of Terry Maple, Ph.D., President/CEO, Zoo Atlanta, &
          President-Elect, American Zoo & Aquarium Association, (AZA)

        Mr. Chairman and Members of the Subcommittee:
        Thank you for the opportunity to appear here today. I am
    Dr. Terry Maple, President and CEO of Zoo Atlanta in Atlanta,
    Georgia, and President-Elect of the American Zoo and Aquarium
    Association (AZA). On behalf of AZA and its members, I want to
    express my appreciation for the concern and interest that the
    Chairman and this Subcommittee have historically shown for the
    conservation of threatened and endangered species. I would
    especially like to thank the Chairman and Congressman
    Abercrombie for introducing H.R 1787, and thank the
    Subcommittee members who have cosponsored this bill. The AZA
    strongly supports this legislation.
        The AZA represents virtually every professionally operated
    zoological park, aquarium, oceanarium, and wild animal park in
    North America, as well as 6500 individual members. More than
    119 million people visit the AZA's 180 zoos and aquariums each
    year, more than attend all professional baseball, basketball,
    football, and hockey games combined.
        In 1988, this Subcommittee recognized the serious threat
    the African elephant faced from poaching and loss of habitat by
    strongly supporting the African Elephant Conservation Act
    (AECA). While the Act's imposition of a ban on the importation
    to the United States of African ivory was important, the
    establishment of the African Elephant Conservation Fund has
    made the Act critical to the survival of the species. This Fund
    is the only continuous source of money (matching) to assist
    African countries and organizations in their conservation
    efforts to protect and manage these magnificent creatures. The
    Fund has supported over 50 conservation projects in seventeen
    range states to enhance habitat protection--anti-poaching
    equipment for example--which has helped increase the elephant
    populations in many regions of southern Africa.
        Regrettably, the Asian elephant is now in need of similar
    help. It faces serious threats--not just from ivory poaching,
    but from a greater threat, the loss of habitat due to a rapidly
    expanding human population throughout its range.
        By creating the Asian Elephant Conservation Act and its
    subsequent Fund, the United States will have the opportunity to
    once again demonstrate its leadership and commitment to
    wildlife conservation. The Asian elephant is a flagship species
    for the tropical forests of Asia; securing its long-term
    viability will in turn assist in the conservation of tigers,
    rhinoceros, Asiatic wild dog, gaur, green peafowl, kouprey,
    pheasants, clouded leopards, Malayan sunbears, lion-tailed
    macaques, and gibbons.
        Unlike the African elephant, whose populations range
    between 600,000 to 700,000 animals, the Asian elephant
    population only numbers between 35,000 to 45,000 animals.
    Furthermore, the population is highly fragmented throughout
    thirteen countries; only in four areas does the population
    consist of more than 1,000 animals. Its range once streched
    widely from Iraq through the Indian subcontinent to China.
    Today, it can no longer be found in West Asia.
        Ironically, for over 4,000 years, this species has enjoyed
    a unique relationship with humankind in Asia. Elephants serve
    as an element in certain religious ceremonies, and function in
    the region's forestry operations. However, because of the
    serious need to feed the continent's expanding population,
    people are no longer tolerating incidents of crop-raiding.
    Resolving the growing friction between humans and elephants
    will require flexibility and long-term commitment--two tools
    offered by the Act.
        The goals of the Act and its subsequent fund would be the
    following: (1) protection of the remaining elephant populations
    and their habitat; (2) establishment and management of
    specially protected areas; (3) reduction of captures from the
    wild, most notably in Burma; and (4) promotion of effective
    community enforcement programs.
        H.R. 1787 would focus on remedies that address human/
    elephant conflict resolution. That is a difference from the
    focus of the AECA which focuses on trade-related aspects of
    conservation. The Act would give support to projects that
    accomplish one or more of the following: (1) directly promote
    wild elephant management practices; (2) monitor population
    trends; (3) assess annual ranging patterns of known
    populations; (4) enforce CITES; (5) encourage law enforcement
    through community participation; (6) translocate elephants; and
    (7) conduct community outreach and education.
        Today, AZA institutions exhibit 155 Asian elephants. Asian
    and African elephants are magnificent animals that are
    difficult to exhibit, manage, and breed. They have complex
    social structures--at times rivaling those of humankind--and
    are extremely intelligent.
        As important as it is for our institutions to conduct
    research on and educate our visitors about the life patterns of
    the Asian elephant, it is as equally important that resources
    be made available to protect the wild Asian elephant
    populations in its habitat.
        In summary, AZA strongly believes H.R. 1787 should receive
    the full support of this Subcommittee for the following
    reasons:
             it will provide competitive financing where it is
            needed most--in the wild to support protection, conservation,
            and management of threatened Asian elephants;
             it is focused and cost-effective, yet flexible enough
            to address immediate needs for conservation;
             it will encourage donations from private sources--a
            fine example of a public-private partnership; and
             funding requests will be based on sound science.
        Thank you for the opportunity to testify before you today in
    support of H.R. 1787.
                                     ______

         Statement of Raman Sukumar, Chairman, IUCN/SSC Asian Elephant
                                Specialist Group
        The Asian elephant, which has shared a special bond with people
    since time immemorial, now faces an uncertain future. It has steadily
    declined in most of its range states in Asia to a population of below
    50,000 in the wild and about 15,000 in captivity, a level which is
    under 10 percent of that of the African elephant. Loss of habitat,
    capture of elephants for domestication, and poaching for ivory and meat
    are the major causes for the decline of the species in recent decades.
    Dedicated conservation efforts, backed by adequate financial support,
    are needed to reverse these trends and ensure the long-term
    conservation of the species.
        The elephant was first tamed in the Indian sub-continent about 4000
    years ago. Since then it has carried our heaviest burdens and fought
    innumerable battles. Kings have used the elephant both as a machine of
    war and an ambassador of peace. It is worshipped by Hindus in the form
    of Ganesha, the elephant-headed god, while the Buddha himself is
    considered to be the reincarnation of a sacred white elephant. No other
    relationship between man and beast equals the splendour of the
    elephant-human relationship.
        A species which once ranged widely from the Tigris-Euphrates basin
    in West Asia eastward to the Yangtze river and beyond in China, is now
    confined to the Indian sub-continent, southeast Asia and some islands
    in Asia. Of the estimated wild population of 50,000 elephants, about 50
    percent is found in a single country, India. Other important
    populations are seen in Burma (5000-6000), Indonesia (2800-4800), Sri
    Lanka (2500-3200), Thailand (1500-3000) and Malaysia (1000-1500). Its
    status is unclear in potentially important countries such as Laos,
    Cambodia and Vietnam, although it is known that elephants are in
    relatively low numbers. Elephant populations in China, Bangladesh,
    Bhutan and Nepal are relatively insignificant.
        There are several causes for the decline of the elephant in Asia.
    In many countries the loss and fragmentation of habitat due to
    expansion of cultivation, settlement and developmental projects have
    squeezed elephant populations into small, unviable areas. Indonesia,
    for instance, has a transmigration scheme for resettlement of people
    from the island of Java into Sumatra. The diversion of forest land for
    settlement and agriculture has severely fragmented the habitat, such
    that there are believed to be over 40 distinct elephant populations on
    the island. The story is similar in peninsular Malaysia, where the
    rapid conversion of natural forests to plantations of rubber and oil
    palm has isolated elephant herds.
        The loss of forest to agriculture occurs in a different context in
    northeastern India and countries such as Burma, Laos and Cambodia.
    Here, slash-and-burn shifting cultivation on hill slopes has denuded
    forest cover considerably. Vast areas are permanently devoid of forest
    cover because of short rotation periods of shifting cultivation. In
    southern India, developmental projects such as dams, roads, railway
    lines, mines and commercial plantations of tea and coffee have made
    considerable inroads into hill forests and fragmented the habitat. In
    Sri Lanka, the Mahaweli Ganga Project, a series of dams and
    agricultural development, has begun to compress elephant populations.
        Fewer than 10 populations, 6 of them in India, have over 1000
    elephants each, a level needed to ensure its long term viability. The
    majority of populations have much fewer numbers, often less than 100 or
    50 elephants each, which are not viable even in the short term.
        The second major cause for the decline of the elephant is its
    capture and killing in large numbers. During the past century alone, up
    to 100,000 elephants have been captured in Asia. Although most
    countries have officially stopped any large scale capture of elephants,
    some illegal captures still continue in southeast Asia. However, it is
    now certain that the extremely low densities and numbers of elephants
    in many southeast Asian countries, particularly the Indo-China region,
    is due to hunting of elephants for ivory, meat, skin and other elephant
    products. The precise magnitude of hunting impacts is not known because
    of lack of investigations in these countries. The ready availability of
    elephant products, including ivory and hide, in markets of these
    countries certainly testifies to the severity of the problem.
        Equally if not more important is the consumer demand for elephant
    products such as ivory from East Asian nations, in particular Japan. A
    new wave of elephant poaching is sweeping through Asia, affecting
    countries such as India. Here, the selective poaching of male elephants
    for tusks has caused serious imbalances in the population structures.
    The ratio of male to female elephants has skewed considerably in many
    populations in southern India; in one major population there is only
    one adult male for every 100 adult females. As the number of male
    elephants declines, and sex ratios become more unequal, genetic
    variation is lost to the detriment of the population.
        A socio-economic dimension to the problem of conserving elephants
    is the impact of elephants on humans and their crops and property. As
    habitats become fragmented and elephant get compressed, there is
    escalation of crop depredations and manslaughter by elephants. In India
    alone over 200 people are killed by wild elephants each year, often
    when elephants enter crop fields and settlements at night in search of
    forage. The economic losses to crop damage by elephants run into
    several million dollars annually in the Asian countries. In Malaysia
    the losses to commerical rubber and oil palm plantations reached such
    levels that they prompted the expression ``the million dollar white
    elephant.'' In a region undergoing rapid socio-economic transformation,
    the traditional tolerance of farmers toward the elephant is
    disappearing.
        The coming century will decide the ultimate fate of the Asian
    elephant and other creatures on this earth. Fortunately with the
    elephant, the problems have been well identified and solutions
    available to ensure its survival and long term conservation. Basically,
    there are four major aspects to the conservation of the elephant. These
    are:
              (1) Maintaining viable, contiguous habitats of high quality
            through setting up of networks of protected areas.
              (2) Minimizing elephant-human conflicts through appropriate
            measures.
              (3) Controlling the poaching of elephants for ivory and other
            products.
              (4) Managing the large numbers of captive elephants through
            proper health care, training, breeding and use.
        Although the task is enormous, given the wide geographical spread
    of the species, there is urgent need to consolidate upon and expand the
    scope of various conservation projects being carried out on a small
    scale. India's Project Elephant is one model which can be adapted for
    other Asian countries. There is urgent need to impart training and
    transfer technical expertise to personnel in many Asian countries.
        Over the past two decades, the Asian Elephant Specialist Group has
    been the most active player in elephant conservation efforts in Asia.
    The basic details of the status and distribution of the elephant have
    been pieced together through the work of its members. An Action Plan
    for the Asian Elephant was published by the group in 1990. Several
    studies of fundamental importance to the conservation of the ele-

    phant have been undertaken or are in progress. The considerable
    achievements of the AESG and other organizations and institutions have
    been made with very modest funding. The time has come to implement the
    conservation strategies which have evolved over the years. This calls
    for much higher levels of funding from the international community.
        The irony that I see in the plight of the Asian elephant is that it
    is arguably the ultimate flagship species for conservation of
    biological and cultural diversity in Asia. The elephant is a keystone
    species in the tropical forests of south and southeast Asia, which are
    biologically one of the most diverse regions in the world. Conserving
    the wild elephant would automatically ensure that hundreds of thousands
    of plant and animal species would also be conserved in Asian tropical
    forests. The proper care and management of captive elephants would
    ensure that elements of the rich cultural heritage of this region would
    be preserved. We surely have a responsibility to saving the most
    magnificent of our fellow creatures.
                                     ______

     Statement of Mary Corliss Pearl, Ph.D., Executive Director, Wildlife
                        Preservation Trust International

        My name is Dr. Mary Pearl, and I represent Wildlife
    Preservation Trust International, a U.S.-based wildlife
    conservation organization. At WPTI, we seek to save endangered
    species from extinction through projects in collaboration with
    local scientists and educators. We work primarily in areas
    where there are human population pressures, human-wildlife
    conflicts, highly diverse or unique ecosystems, and where
    hands-on efforts are needed for animal survival. We integrate
    methods from captive breeding and reintroduction to veterinary
    care, public education, and wildlife research. We have no
    higher priority than the conservation of the elephant.
        Elephants are marvels of nature: their size is awesome--
    they can stand over twelve feet tall and weigh over 15,000
    pounds. One elephant molar can weigh ten pounds, and the
    amazing elephant trunk contains at least 150,000 muscles,
    enabling it to uproot a tree or lift a small coin. Elephants
    are intelligent and emotional and inextricably entwined in
    human history. Four thousand years ago, elephants were used to
    carry burdens. Elephants were used in battle by King Porus
    against Alexander the Great, by King Pyrrhus over the Romans,
    and during the Vietnam War. Humans use elephants to log
    forests, transport loads, carry tourists through parks and
    religious relics to temples. Elephants, unlike any machinery,
    can maneuver in mountainous, inaccessible terrain, through
    water and forests with minimal environmental impact. In the
    United States, circus and zoo elephants have inspired awe,
    respect, and affection for generations.
        Despite this heroic history, both the Asian and African
    elephant species are facing tremendous pressure toward
    extinction. In Africa, the chief culprit has been poaching for
    tusks for the ivory trade. In Asia, where only a portion of
    adult males grow tusks, the main problem is habitat loss. Since
    the early 1980's, the African population has fallen 50 percent,
    to an estimated 600,000 animals. This steep decline has been
    halted to some degree by the worldwide ban on ivory trade, and
    by improved, internationally coordinated law enforcement.
        The Asian elephant is not as fortunate. Perhaps because
    habitat loss is relatively slow and quiet compared to the drama
    of violent gangs of poachers, the constant decline in elephants
    in Asia has continued without much world notice. Yet today, the
    worldwide population of Asian elephants is down to fewer than
    50,000 animals, isolated in small pockets in India, Myanmar,
    Sri Lanka, China, Thailand, Laos, Cambodia, Malaysia,
    Indonesia, and Vietnam. Because hunting for tusks is limited to
    males, in some areas the ratio of males to females has been
    reduced to one to one hundred. In such circumstances, it is
    virtually impossible for all potential mothers to mate. Even in
    the best of circumstances, elephants typically only produce an
    offspring every four to 6 years, so that elephant populations
    are extremely slow to recover from steep decline. Moreover, up
    to one-third, or 15,000 of the world's Asian elephant
    population lives in captivity, mostly in logging camps. This
    share of captive animals is growing: as more natural habitat is
    converted into agricultural lands, the resident elephants
    become ``agricultural pests'' and are taken into captivity. The
    productivity and health of the worldwide captive population of
    elephants is important for the future of the species. Yet much
    captive management falls short of minimum standards for humane
    care, and successful captive breeding cannot take place,
    although it will be necessary to take the hunting pressure off
    of remaining wild elephants.
        The endangered status of Asian elephants is especially
    poignant because for thousands of years, they have lived in
    close association with humans, as an integral part of religions
    and cultures. Yet beyond their essential role in Buddhism and
    Hindu-

    ism, elephants are essential in traditional forest management
    systems in many parts of Asia, and the continued economic
    viability of sustainable tropical timber harvesting depends on
    the maintenance of captive elephant populations. In Myanmar, an
    elephant work force of 3,000 is used to manage the logging
    industry. Elephants are critically important not only
    culturally and economically, but also ecologically, in that
    they maintain habitat that other wildlife needs. A host of
    plants and animals depend on the elephant, which as ``the
    architect of the forest,'' creates clearings in which they can
    also live and grow.
        Despite the low numbers of Asian elephants and the troubles
    they face, they are not doomed to inevitable extinction. While
    the situation of the Asian elephant is urgent, it is certainly
    not hopeless. We know what we must do to stabilize the
    population. We must locate and identify all remaining
    significant local populations of elephants, and determine their
    minimum critical habitat requirements. We must make plans to
    translocate isolated elephants to places where they can become
    part of an effective, reproducing local population. We must
    resolve conflicts where elephants are ruining people's
    livelihoods in such a way that both people and elephants have
    viable futures. We must devise ways to better manage captive
    populations so that they are self-sustaining, humanely cared
    for, and a source of replenishment for remaining wild herds.
        At WPTI, we have begun this work in partnership with the
    India-based Asian Elephant Conservation Centre, thanks to the
    generosity of our members and of various private foundations,
    including the John D. and Catherine T. MacArthur Foundation,
    the Liz Claiborne/Art Ortenberg Foundation, and the Chase
    Wildlife Foundation. We are fortunate that throughout the Asian
    elephant range countries, there are competent and personally
    committed scientists and wildlife managers ready and willing to
    work with us to reverse the decline in elephants. However, the
    urgency of our mission is such that we cannot accomplish what
    we need to on private support alone. That is why H.R. 1781, the
    Asian Elephant Conservation Act, is so important. Rather than
    ``throwing money at the problem,'' this legislation would
    direct a modest amount that would bring ongoing efforts up to
    the needed level of intensity and accomplishment. In other
    words, the proposed U.S. contribution to Asian elephant
    conservation represents leverage appropriate to American
    interests and values, which will result in far greater
    expenditures of funds and effort at the local level, within
    elephant range countries.
        Asian elephants are an international treasure, for
    aesthetic, cultural, economic, and ecological reasons. Our
    world would be diminished and Asian forests would deteriorate
    without these magnificent creatures. Saving the beloved
    elephant is a more compelling goal than the abstract notion of
    forest protection, and therefore attention to this flagship
    species is a compelling means to preserve the wild lands we all
    need for the health of the biosphere. WPTI is fortunate that
    several private foundations and our membership have helped us
    conduct preliminary work needed to reverse the recent decline
    in elephant numbers. However, the situation is urgent, and our
    financial resources are stretched to the limit. The additional
    assistance that the Asian Elephant Conservation Act would
    provide would allow the international conservation community to
    move much more quickly in what is truly a race to save the
    Asian elephant.

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